Joshua Clottey is who we thought he was
by Scott Christ on Mar 14, 2010 9:50 AM EDT
in Boxing Post-Fight Analysis and Results
42 comments
When I woke up this morning, last night's pay-per-view was still, of course, on my mind. The undercard, as usual, was pretty dreadful (more on that sometime later this week, maybe later today). The main event, as usual, was lackluster (same "more on that").
And Joshua Clottey is who we thought he was. And I let this fight off the hook.
In my preview for the bout, my respect for Clottey as a fighter kind of guilt-tripped me into mealy-mouthing a little bit. Yes, Clottey's a good fighter, I was trying to say. But he's also no match for Manny Pacquiao. This fight, I wanted to say without being harsh, would be damned easy for Pacquiao.
Because Joshua Clottey wasn't good enough for Manny Pacquiao. He was never going to win this fight, save for Pacquiao uncharacteristically taking him lightly.
The laughable 30-second TV promo for the pay-per-view called Clottey a "devastating brawler." That was rich. Clottey doesn't have half the power a lot of people seem to think he does. He's about as devastating as any wall can be. For 12 rounds last night, he stood motionless, allowing Pacquiao to unleash over 1,200 punches, landing 20% of them.
It wasn't Pacquiao's most scintillating performance. It wasn't even his most dominant, though it was a virtual shutout for a fact. Pacquiao was more dominant against Cotto, Hatton, de la Hoya, Morales in their third fight, David Diaz, and twice against Marco Antonio Barrera. He was also more entertaining. He also had opponents who seemed to at least consider fighting back.
Clottey, it was noted, gave tough fights to Miguel Cotto and Antonio Margarito, and he beat Zab Judah. Beating Judah is nothing too amazing anymore. He gave the Cotto fight away by doing in too many short bursts what he did all of last night.
Who among those three men (Clottey's best opponents coming in) could really hold a candle to what Pacquiao brings to the table? By the time Clottey fought him, Judah had gained the reputation of a six-round fighter. Margarito, devastating as he was at his best, is a slow, plodding guy. Cotto was damaged goods in the minds of many.
I'm not trying to say that Joshua Clottey is not a good fighter. He is. He remains one of the six best fighters in the welterweight division, a completely credible boxer and a tough out for most. But against Manny Pacquiao, he was in a fight he really couldn't win. He fought like it, too.
Joshua Clottey didn't lose credibility last night, necessarily, but made it clear that he's not a great fighter. And he's never going to be a better fighter than he is now. Clottey is rugged, durable, good defensively, and limited. We usually save "limited" for guys like John Duddy, but it applies to Clottey, too. Good as he is, he's only so good. And Manny Pacquiao made him look bad.
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Imo
if Clottey had opened up more(as Pacquiao was trying to get him to do),he would have got countered regularly and possibly stopped.
by Matt (Yorkshire) on Mar 14, 2010 10:11 AM EDT reply actions
yeah, I think so too
And I think Clottey thought the same thing. This is what I mean. He really had no chance to win this fight. He’s not good enough.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 14, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
hmm
You made it sound like clottey is someone like malignaggi. The guy can punch. Otherwise, he wouldn’t have gotten no respect from margarito and cotto and they would have pounded him. So he’s got some power in his punches. Those guys felt it and they respected him enough that he gave margarito a tough fight and arguably won against cotto.
Now, if he opened up a bit, he might have lost by a KO, but then again, he could have landed some meaningful shots himself and maybe hurt pacquiao if he got lucky. Clottey needed to take some risk, as his trainer begged him to do, he never did. I don’t think clottey came to win. He came to collect his 2million dollars and keep his never-been-KOed status. Clottey is weak mentally. He doesn’t have the hunger to win like pacquiao has that pacquiao is willing to do everything to win. Pacquiao is the giant mentally and clottey was the dwarf.
by Jerahmeel Daigo on Mar 14, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t mean to make him sound like Paul Malignaggi in terms of power, but honestly Paul Malignaggi would’ve done better last night than Clottey did. At least he would have punched. Clottey having more power than Paulie (not much of a statement) became irrelevant since he didn’t throw his hands at all.
I really don’t think much of Clottey’s punching power at all (he’s never stopped anyone very good and has one stoppage win in the last 5+ years), though.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 14, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, I think you might be right about Clottey’s mental game. He shows no strong desire to make sure he wins a fight.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 14, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Alrite Matt.
Yep, No win situation for Clottey, he did too little too late, and if he had done more, as you correctly said, he would have paid dearly. Paquiao was like a little wasp, all over the place and firing some wicked combo’s.
Can’t say I was overly impressed with Duddy, what do you think of that one ?
nobody's ever been overly impressed with Duddy
It’s because he stinks.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 14, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I can’t be for certain on the former. The latter is what I’m saying. He’s a tough guy and can put on some very entertaining fights, but man is he not very good.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 14, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Hello Phil.
No i don’t like Duddy as a fighter.Never have.Doesn’t seem to be improving at all and gets hit too much by average fighters.
Ian Darke and Watt were saying he needs a title shot before it’s too late.
F**king title shot!!For what reason?He either looks just the same or worse than his last fight every time i see him.
I turned the volume to mute for nearly all of that fight last night. :)
I sometimes don’t mind Darke but he talks a lot of crap too,imo.Him and Watt together are pretty unbearable to me.
I think Matt Macklin would beat Duddy fairly handily.
by Matt (Yorkshire) on Mar 14, 2010 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Muted it for most of Pac v Clottey too.
by Matt (Yorkshire) on Mar 14, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Doesn’t seem to be improving at all
Yeah, and he’s 30 years old. That ship has sailed.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 14, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Well I say give him a title shot.
He will get demolished and all this talk about him being a contender will be put to rest
There’s really no talk of him being a contender. Everyone knows what he is. If he beats JCC Jr. and Pavlik still holds the middleweight belt and wants to fight at 160, I bet Arum finally makes that horrifying fight.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 14, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
yep
Duddy-JCC Jr. would basically be a second-tier cash cow eliminator. If Jr. wins, you can milk him a while longer. If Duddy wins, you really maybe can’t, so throw him to Pavlik and get it over with.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 15, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Duddy is what he is
He comes to fight, has decent power and will take punishment. I thought that fight was the best of the night by a wide margin. And, there was no way it was a SD, Duddy won that fight by several rounds on my card.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
Yeah
‘he is what he is’.
I.e. – not very good and not really going anywhere.
They should match him with Chavez Jr.
by Matt (Yorkshire) on Mar 14, 2010 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Saying his fight was the best of the night is not really saying much considering.
by Matt (Yorkshire) on Mar 14, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Duddy will crush Chavez Jr.
absolutely demolish. Duddy is a decent fighter, Chavez Jr. is a total sham.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
In line with predictions
Given the outcome, isn’t this what we all expected going in? A UD is what the majority of prognosticators predicted.
I think at some level all of us willed ourselves into believing that Clottey would do something to give us something to look forward to come fight time. Having seen Clottey fight before, it was a typical performance. For him, surviving was a moral victory.
It was typical in some ways, but I’d say that he was even less aggressive than usual, exacerbated by the fact that Pacquiao was way too fast and too good.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 14, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
It makes me wonder...
How has Clottey been able to get this far in his career with this style, maybe becuase I haven’t watched his earlier fights but I was literally screaming at Clottey to throw punches, it makes it seems like he’s afraid of taking punishment. I mean his defense is great. but he does he think he beat top competition like this if he doesn’t turn the pressure up? I feel he just needs a more influential trainer, someone that beats it into his skull that he can’t expect to win he doesn’t be active.
That’s just my opinion on Clottey, it pains me to see this happen at this level of career.
Very understandable
If you always thought what you thought, then you wouldn't think what you knew.
by Haans Bishop on Mar 15, 2010 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the only
reason that Manny was more “dominant” against DLH and Cotto was that they fought back.
At least, they fought back for a while.
Thanks for the coverage.
I kept my promise to myself and didn’t buy it (though I came close). Sounds like it was 12 rounds of Manny sparring.
A Pete Rose by any other name would still smell of cheap hookers and pinetar.
Not sparring so much as having a good workout. It was like Manny got a video game mini-game where he had to try and break the guard.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 14, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
If only Clottey had a more aggressive mentality….there were times later in the fight where they really exchanged some big shots. Otherwise, it was all Manny, although I think Clottey won 2, maybe three rounds as his punches were way stronger than Pacmans. It was Pacman at the end of the fight who had mouse under his eye and swollen cheekbones, not Clottey. Mayweather must be drooling at the thought of getting in there with Manny, and leaving with a win and $30 million….at least.
Pacquaio
had a few marks because he is willing to take a few to get his own punches off and he was trying to get Clottey to open up so he could counter him.
Clottey’s hands eye,throw nothing defence is the reason he didnt have many marks and Mayweather’s avoid-taking-a-punch-at-any-cost style is why he doesn’t get marked up.
Floyd doesn’t like to fight.
by Matt (Yorkshire) on Mar 14, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
These guys are also much bigger than Manny in case anyone needs reminding.
by Matt (Yorkshire) on Mar 14, 2010 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I never want to see Clottey fight again.
He should have done SOMETHING. Guys like him are bad for boxing. It’s why people say boxing is boring, and when people like him are in the ring they are right.
"And so, as, uh, Heavyweight Champion recognized by nine of the fourteen sanctioning bodies..." -Drederick Tatum, The Simpsons
I agree
Clottey may have just shot him self in foot on that performance. i don’t think anybody would want him on a under card on any network.
If you always thought what you thought, then you wouldn't think what you knew.
by Haans Bishop on Mar 15, 2010 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't imagine PBF wanting anything to do with Manny.
I know there are a few questions over why manny won’t bow down to Floyds demands, but really, who needs who these days? cos I’d say Manny actually sells the tickets, whereas Floyd keeps TELLING us he sells the tickets. Who’s kiddin who?
by Phill on Mar 14, 2010 4:13 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
If you want to crown Pac’s ass, go ahead and crown’em. We’ve seen Clottey in the Cotto fight, fight with his a-game for 9 rounds. You think he wasn’t going to fight like that again? Bullshit! If you want to go after someone, go after Mosley. He’s a man, he’s (almost) 40. Don’t go after Clottey, he’s just a kid who is doing everything right….
I’ll stop mixing my football metaphor speeches now….
by waldo47 on Mar 14, 2010 5:55 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Old Dennis Green… A nice touch. One of the most explosive interviews of all time.
If you always thought what you thought, then you wouldn't think what you knew.
by Haans Bishop on Mar 15, 2010 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
A BORING SURPRISE FROM CLOTTEY
Clottey didn’t mind the growing 50k fans frustration in the live audience at Cowboys Stadium
during the event and maintained his survival defensive stance all throughout.Pacquiao made it look like the former is just a sparring partner and nothing to the tune of a formidable opponent.C ON G R A T U L A T I O N P A C Q U I A O
this got me thinking – “He remains one of the six best fighters in the welterweight division”
if that’s the case…Clottey….can we really even say that the division is as great as it was say, in the 80’s with Hearns, Leonard, Duran, and Hagler…..i keep hearing a lot of noise about how this is a resurgence in the welterweight…and granted, Cotto, Mosley, Mayweather and Pacman now make a legit case for that….but I dunno.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.
by theworldsoldestsport on Mar 15, 2010 12:29 AM EDT reply actions
Welter gets overrated today. It’s phenomenal up top especially: Mayweather, Pacquiao, Mosley. Then you have Cotto, Berto, Clottey. And Luis Collazo’s a good fighter, but he barely ever fights. And Kell Brook might seriously crash the party within the next year. But past that, eh. Past that it might as well be junior lightweight or something with all the Jan Zavecks and Delvin Rodriguezes.
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"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 15, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
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