Pacquiao-Clottey: Final Thoughts
Manny Pacquiao's Saturday night win over Joshua Clottey has generated a lot of discussion, and not all of it has been very positive. Some of the criticisms have been downright harsh, and a lot of them are deserved.
So before we move on in the boxing world, let's take a final, sober look at the Pacquiao-Clottey card.
Main Event
Manny Pacquiao comes out of the fight just fine. Despite the complaints that the fight was boring, Pacquiao's 1200-plus punches thrown are a testament to the fact that it wasn't boring because of him.
Joshua Clottey, on the other hand, could have damaged his reputation very badly. His arms-up, hyper-defensive performance was the first time that a lot of the people watching have ever seen him fight. Clottey has never been particularly exciting, and never a major star. He got himself on the biggest stage he could against Pacquiao, and he pretty much laid an egg out there.
It's not just that Clottey was "boring." His cover-up game was so drastic that it has led people to believe he was indifferent about whether or not he won, that he "didn't come to win," which is, when you break it down, essentially saying he all but threw the fight. If he wasn't trying to win, what kind of contest is that?
Please note I'm not accusing Clottey of actually throwing the fight. But that is pretty much how a lot of people see it. He wasn't there being a competitor. He was existing, doing all he could to not get knocked out, and cashing a paycheck.
Joshua Clottey is a very good fighter, but he'll need some serious career rehab to starting smelling rosy again for a big portion of the audience that paid to watch him on Saturday. He might well be able to land another big fight by the end of the year, but it'll be more coincidence than anything. He doesn't draw, doesn't have much of a fanbase, is a difficult fight for just about anyone, and now he's got some bad press.
There is talk of Clottey moving up to 154 pounds. Bob Arum mentioned a possible fight between Clottey and Yuri Foreman, should Foreman retain his title against Miguel Cotto in June. God help us all if that matchup becomes a reality, because I don't see a network that can afford it (HBO) paying for it.
If he stays at 147, though, he could easily get a title shot this year. If Andre Berto and promoter Lou DiBella wanted it, Clottey could be an opponent for the WBC titlist, should Berto get past Carlos Quintana on April 10. Of course, Berto and DiBella might see Clottey as too big a risk for too little gain.
And as badly as Clottey has suffered from "big risk, little gain" in the past, that might be worse than ever now.
In short: Manny's fine and trucks on. Clottey's reputation is badly bruised, but the limited options for a lot of people could keep him a player anyway.
Undercard
The HBO crew spent a lot of time complaining about the undercard. Is it too much to ask that they just call the fights, especially when two of them (Duddy-Medina and Soto-Diaz) were perfectly watchable? Jim Lampley and Max Kellerman especially acted like they were being stabbed during the undercard. I understand their desire to point out the fact that the fights didn't have a ton of meaning, and that's not a bad thing that the voices behind the biggest boxing broadcaster in America are willing to speak up for something the fans say, too. But say it and then move on. The fighters deserve that much, at least.
Anyway, I'll take my own advice and shut up with the complaining and give some quick thoughts on these fights.
Humberto Soto definitely won, and his two knockdowns helped that, but he had some difficulty with David Diaz that makes his future at lightweight a bit more questionable. He's tall and lanky, and his power came with him. He can still punch, and he's a good fighter. He's definitely a top 10 guy in the division already. However, Diaz was able to effectively pressure Soto and push him around some simply because he's a more natural lightweight. That could be a real problem against a better fighter than David Diaz.
For instance, I can't see Humberto Soto beating Michael Katsidis right now. Not because Soto isn't, pound-for-pound, better than Katsidis, but because Katsidis is a burly guy who never backs off. I think he'd eventually wear Soto out. That's just a "styles make fights" thing. Of all the guys in the top ten, I think Soto would have the best shot against No. 1 and legit world champion Juan Manuel Marquez, actually. Marquez isn't really a lightweight either, he's aging, and he's always willing to stand in the pocket and take shots to give back. Marquez was able to beat Juan Diaz in a firefight, but Diaz can't punch. That same fight with Soto instead of Juan Diaz, and I think Marquez goes out on his shield. And it would be a marvelous battle, too.
Right now, it looks like Soto will face Anthony Peterson on the Foreman-Cotto undercard. That's an interesting enough matchup.
There's not much more to be said about Jose Luis Castillo than we already have. He's retired now. Alfonso Gomez may have earned himself another PPV undercard fight in the future with this win. He's been on the last two Pacquiao shows. He's affordable, nobody is going to be afraid to fight him, and he does come to fight. He's made a nice career for himself.
John Duddy was John Duddy. He's extremely limited, but he's also competent. I think he'll smash Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. if those two fight this summer, as has been the rumor, and that seems unwise to me from a business standpoint. If I'm Top Rank, I don't put Chavez in with Duddy. Chavez has never beaten anyone as good as Duddy, and we know Duddy can take a shot. Chavez couldn't dent freaking Troy Rowland. From a business standpoint, there's way more money in Chavez than in Duddy, too.
As for Michael Medina, who lost to Duddy on Saturday, he seems like a guy who could have a nice career as a professional opponent, and if he refines himself some (which can happen to young guys who get cast in the "opponent" role, simply because they're fighting good fighters all the time), he could be a late bloomer. I'm going to write a note on a Post-It to check back in on the "Murder Man" in five years.
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No more nails/ gorilla glue..
Are the rumours true that Clottey’s hands were stuck to his head with a new adhesive product, the manufacturers of which are his new sponsors??
by Phill on Mar 15, 2010 1:44 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I agree wholeheartedly about the commentary on the undercards — your customers just shelled out $50-60 to buy the card, and you spend the first 3/4 of the night complaining about how bad the fights suck? That doesn’t seem very smart for a host of reasons.
I also agree that Clottey is SEVERELY damaged goods at this point. I see no way that Berto fights Clottey, assuming he gets past Quintana, for the very reasons you state — all risk, no reward. Perhaps we could see Cotto-Berto if both win their upcoming fights (I can’t see Cotto staying at 154 for very long)?
by The Boxer Rebellion on Mar 15, 2010 2:01 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah that would be silly for Berto
Mainly because he hardly needs to be associated with any more boring fights after his bout with Urango!
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 15, 2010 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
tHE ENTIRE THING WAS POOR VALUE.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Mar 17, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I was watching the fights from a bar in Las Vegas on Saturday, so it was pretty loud and such. Thus, I didn’t get to hear too much of the commentary. The patrons at the bar made our own commentary. In general, we were all pretty much in the same boat about Clottey (how could you not be), so we don’t even have to talk about that.
However, without the commentary to jade my view of the undercard, I actually thought two of the three fights weren’t terrible. I actually enjoyed the Soto-Diaz fight. I mean, its definately not a fight of the year (or even fight of the month) contender…but it was the more entertaining fight of the night for me…mostly because both fighters came to fight, and there was some action, at least. The crowd at the bar seemed pretty into it. I dunno, I just didn’t think it was that bad.
I got to the bar about half way through Medina-Duddy, and it was an ok fight. No barnburner, but whatever. Maybe I have a different view of what an undercard should be. It seemed somewhat competitive…even if it was a little boring.
The middle undercard fight was a joke.
All in all, it wasn’t a great PPV, but I don’t think the undercard was as terrible as it was played up to be.
"I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." ~Michael Scott
It was one of the best PPV undercards on a major show in a long time. That’s not saying a lot, but the fact that I wasn’t ever bored out of my skull watching it was nice. It kicked the crap out of the Cotto-Pac undercard, and was at least as good as the Mayweather-Marquez undercard, though Katsidis-Escobedo was the best fight of the six we’re talking about. Way better than the awful Hatton-Pac undercard, the terrible Oscar-Manny undercard, and the all-time, legendarily disgusting Calzaghe-Jones undercard.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 15, 2010 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Lock-Cruz was the most entertaining fight on the Mayweather-Marquez undercard while it lasted…this undercard doesn’t even come close to that one, i enjoyed the top rank live show on friday night more than i enjoyed this entire PPV, soto-diaz is the only defensible undercard bout, and pacquiao’s double punch and jim lampley saying bang were the only mildly amusing moments of the main event
Lampley is one sick dude.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Mar 17, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I was happy for Gomez because he is a truly noice guy and great sportsman.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Mar 17, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
The first time I read that Soto-Peterson was a possibility
I thought to myself that Soto was probably going to lose that one. His fight against Diaz has cemented that thought in my head. If Peterson can stay aggressive (which is something he’s historically had some problems with), I can see him putting on a one-sided clinic against Soto.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Can't
agree about the undercard: Castillo/Gomez was terrible (though, conversely, I’m glad they gave Castillo one last decent [I hope] payday, so—), Duddy almost put me to sleep. Soto/Diaz was a decent fight, but I’d rather pay to see Soto/Diaz immediately followed by the main event instead of having to stay up to some ungodly hour just so the promoters can pretend they are putting together a real and full fight card.
There are decent young boxers who (if the idea has to be to “give” us four or five fights) could be matched up. It would seem that the promoters would not spend more than they want to (young kids should love the exposure), and still have a good undercard. I always think of Korobov: I’d rather see him, and there other young guns in this category as well, than Duddy (fitting name) or someone left over from The Contender.
I just don’t see Korobov walking through some club fighter as anything more interesting than Duddy and Medina scrapping, but I can understand that line of thinking. Korobov might well be somebody. Hell, Korobov would probably beat Duddy right now.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 15, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
SC, Out of interest...
Did you hear the English commentary or the US?
by Phill on Mar 15, 2010 3:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
US
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 15, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
The reason I ask..
Is that the Sky Sports commentators were almost putting a .. " if Duddy wants to get a world title shot he’d better get a move on"… slant on it, which I found astonishing. Just wondered what tha American POV was.
The HBO team mostly just didn’t care.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 15, 2010 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
they talked a bit about how Duddy still hasn’t stepped up in competition at the age of 30, how much he’s digressed since he first came on the scene, how he has no defense, and how jaded he seemed the day before at the hotel
He signed with Top Rank because he thought he would get a shot at Pavlik that way
And he probably would have had he not been beaten by Billy Lyell. So I can see why they’d be jaded. But he’s probably not getting a title shot at this point, and he’s never been world class.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Actually,
Duddy and Korobov might have made an interesting bout.
by Don From Prov on Mar 16, 2010 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
fOR ONE ROUND MAYBE
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Mar 17, 2010 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
You nailed it, SC...
… unlike you did with the boxing bulletin pick ‘em game week 1. Lol. Anyway, it’s clear that it’s better to see things “sober” than after the fight/event, when one still has the bad taste in his mouth. Nice thoughts, man. =)
Mostly Agree
I’d actually like Duddy to fight Chavez Jr. so that one of them can earn being taken slightly more seriously, though I agree Top Rank will probably back off it for the reasons you state. As for Ploddy:
Clottey vs. Kell Brook (in Britain where it might make money) – woohoo!
The live crowd liked the undercard better than you TV viewers. A lot more energy in a live crowd than a bar or someone’s home with the wife hanging around. Also, the under-under card bouts, mostly young kids, were very exciting. There is a kid from Dallas named Marroquin who is the real deal. Put on a good show for his homies.
i saw marroquin on Top Rank Live, and he didn’t look like no real deal to me. he had trouble with the dude he fought, and wasn’t very exciting at all
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on Mar 16, 2010 12:36 AM EDT up reply actions
i was actuallyimpressed with how Soto kept to the plan, avoiding punishment without completely running around the ring. he picked up much of Diaz’s power shots, took the ones that landed and never got shook out of his gameplan. he didn’t run around on the bike more than necessary, he just negated exactly what diaz wanted. i like that fight, from a boxing purist standpoint.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.
by theworldsoldestsport on Mar 16, 2010 11:12 AM EDT reply actions
Please note I’m not accusing Clottey of actually throwing the fight. But that is pretty much how a lot of people see it. He wasn’t there being a competitor. He was existing, doing all he could to not get knocked out, and cashing a paycheck.
Yeah, I know what you mean. Honestly though, I think Josh just realized early on that he had not one hope in hell of timing Manny. Then he just got – well I guess “timid” is an understatement. At least when he was in with Plasterito, who also threw a fuck ton of punches, he had an opening on the right every now and then.
Not that I give it a lot of weight, but Azumah Nelson said he thought Dejesus working the corner was a factor. Probably not a big one, but given the way Clottey fights, it’s possible he didn’t realize just how badly he was losing. He gets that thousand mile stare going and who knows what’s happening upstairs.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
He didn't throw that many more punches against Margo
He just connected at nearly 50%. Still only averaged about 45 punches a round though.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Yeah, I know. I’m just saying, I thought Margie gave him more opportunities to throw… not that he took ’em. Clottey is transforming into Das Phantom minus the crooked judging.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
DUDDY NEEDS TO DO SOMETHING ELSE.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Mar 17, 2010 2:39 PM EDT reply actions
I’ve been saying for years now that if he stays in the ring he is gonna lose his Movie Star meal ticket! Not everyone can be Mickey Rourke.
Let him end the mini-Chavez 100-0 streak first. That little bastard has fought 20 old women, 50 cab drivers, my next door neighbor’s cat, etc.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
I’m not trying to insult John Duddy when I say this, but there probably aren’t a whole lot of things waiting for 30-year-old John Duddy out there that will pay as good as an undercard spot on one of the biggest boxing shows of the year.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 18, 2010 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
MMA bout against James Toney?
Just kidding.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"

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