Pacquiao-Clottey buys estimated at 650-700,000
by SC on Mar 18, 2010 6:17 PM EDT
in News Analysis
82 comments
With no HBO "24/7" dedicated to the event, an unknown B-side fighter in the main event, and an undercard that while not notably weak certainly didn't help matters, industry chatter is that the Manny Pacquiao-Joshua Clottey fight last weekend did around 650,000 pay-per-view buys in the United States, with the final number likely to be near 700,000.
Even the highest end number there (700K) would put it well below recent numbers for major "event" fights. Last year, Hatton-Pacquiao did around 825K, followed by Mayweather-Marquez at 1 million and Cotto-Pacquiao at 1.25 million. But I'd also say that this shouldn't have been unexpected, and it should be considered a success and testament to Pacquiao's drawing power.
Perhaps most importantly, this could prove to be roadblock No. 732 in making Mayweather-Pacquiao ever happen. Without any question, the buys for Floyd Mayweather Jr.'s fight with Shane Mosley on May 1 will obliterate this number. If all really goes well, Mosley-Mayweather could triple the buys for Pacquiao-Clottey, which would mean there is absolutely no way in hell that the Mayweather camp will acquiesce to a 50/50 split with Pacquiao if they ever get back to the negotiating table. I think Pacquiao-Mosley could've done great numbers, too, but the fact of the matter is that Mayweather was able to line up the better fight commercially, and it's also the better fight in terms of challenge. It may have been more happenstance than anything, but to the victor goes the spoils and all that.
Mayweather, should he beat Mosley and negotiate with Pacquiao, will probably look for at least a 60/40 split at this point. If he and Mosley do really mega numbers, around two million buys or so (which is not as out of the question as it might seem to some, I believe), then he might even open with something absurd like 70/30.
To get back to the Pacquiao-Clottey number itself, though, it's really pretty incredible when you think about it. The man has grown into a serious superstar. I'm sure there will be the dullards that laugh about this number as though it's some sort of "proof" of something heinous or disastrous, but think back to March 2008, when Pacquiao rematched Juan Manuel Marquez. In boxing circles, that fight was just about 100 times more highly anticipated than Pacquiao-Clottey, at least as I remember it. That fight sold to about 400,000 homes, which was an incredible number, and still a record for a main event fight with boxers that size (they were at 130 for that fight).
Now, with Clottey, who not only isn't a mainstream fighter by any stretch, but also doesn't have the incredible Mexican boxing fan following, Pacquiao has sold at least 650,000 or so PPVs. We're talking about at least a quarter million more people buying Pacquiao-Clottey than the highly-anticipated Marquez-Pacquiao II. Not bad.
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I’m on Floyd’s side here. If he gets 1,000,000 PPV, then he deserves a 60/40 split since that would prove he’s a better draw than Manny. This is strictly business.
I dunno about that. I’d say Mosely is the bigger draw than Clottey, really. And if Mayweather’s fight with Mosely only gets 1 million buys, I’d have to consider that a weak number. Now, 1.5 million, we’re talking again.
I think it’ll be hard for Manny’s side to try and negotiate 50/50 if Mayweather’s PPV does well (1.5+). But 60/40 seems high. Manny is still a huge draw. He alone got 700k buys against someone who isn’t really very close to his league. I could see 52-48…not a huge difference, but enough to satisfy the ego and a nod to the fact that Floyd outsold Manny in this case. Would Manny agree to that? Probably not. After the way things fell apart the first time, I doubt he’d go back to the negotiating table for less than he had originally.
"I want people to be afraid of how much they love me." ~Michael Scott
by ZeroIndulgence on Mar 18, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
if Mayweather’s fight with Mosely only gets 1 million buys, I’d have to consider that a weak number.
I’d agree. And it would stun me if they don’t do 1.5 at least.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by SC on Mar 18, 2010 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
They should be able to double this
Plus, I hate to break it down this way, but Mayweather-Mosley at least plays to one of the three ethnic groups that historically give PPV buys a boost, whereas Pacquiao plays to none. Still, it should blow Pac-Clottey out of the water by far enough that he’ll probably demand a bigger chunk of the split on top of random blood testing.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
We've been conditioned to be gunshy when talking about those factors,
but they really are relevant to the discussion. When there’s a big-time Mexican fighter involved in a high-profile fight, you see the boost in buys as a block. Same goes for black American fighters. This is a bout between the two highest-profile black American fighters out there if I’m reading my encoder ring properly, so you should expect pretty much that entire block to be participating.
Pacquiao has zero ethnic block supporting his PPV’s (the Filipinos get the fights for free…they don’t have to pay for them, that is). 650k-700k based solely on the merits isn’t disgraceful, but I’ll admit that I had higher hopes than that. I didn’t think it would pull over a million, but I had thought 850-950k was reachable.
Expect even more shrillness from Mayweather now (if that’s possible?). Just another obstacle…too bad. It really is a shame.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Pacquiao has zero ethnic block supporting his PPV’s (the Filipinos get the fights for free…they don’t have to pay for them, that is). 650k-700k based solely on the merits isn’t disgraceful, but I’ll admit that I had higher hopes than that.
But, shouldn’t that say something about his actual drawing power? The fact that people are tuning in for reasons other than tribe should ring alarm bells in the heads of cavemen promoters like Arum and King. Sometimes, people just recognize a good product, no matter what the packaging.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
What I mean is...
As loyal as Mexican fans are, 650-700k of hardcore interest bangs Am-Mexican viewership of Pacquiao-Marquez out of the park. Clottey has a fan base close to that of Chad Dawson: rapidly approaching zero.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
And even hardcore fans are starting to give up on him
After his last couple of performances, where he gave one fight away and never even stepped into the other one.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
But, shouldn’t that say something about his actual drawing power?
I think it speaks to the synergy potential that Manny Pacquiao provides in the overall draw.
Manny has mainstream appeal that Mayweather (or any fighter outside of Prime Tyson/Ali/Leonard) can only dream about. Combine that mainstream exposure/profile with a true boxing demographic draw like Mayweather, and you’re talking about a truly massive event in terms of PPV dollars.
Manny doesn’t have a ridiculous cult (PPV) following, like most high-profile Mexican or black fighters enjoy. He’s just a great boxer who has captured the public consciousness.
I’d like to argue something else, also. I think Manny going ‘first’ took the brunt of the public’s displeasure at the wasted Manny/Mayweather fight. There were more people specifically avoiding the first fight after that fiasco than there will be for the second fight, since we all know that humans have a finite attention span, and even our rage only burns for so long.
I’d argue that these numbers are significantly deflated compared to what you would expect this particular fight to do in a mood-neutral environment.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Mar 18, 2010 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
these numbers are significantly deflated compared to what you would expect this particular fight to do in a mood-neutral environment
Well-put. There were a number of BLH members who were vocal about boycotting this PPV — and we’re all boxing fans here. The backlash was much more severe with the casual fans. 650K is a small victory in my opinion.
The proposed BLH boycott
was about Margarito being on the card. When that no longer became a factor, there was no thought of boycott that I am aware of.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
I'm sure there are some Filipinos in the States that order PPV's
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Correction.
They only need 999,999 buys. I’m already in!
If you always thought what you thought, then you wouldn't think what you knew.
by Haans Bishop on Mar 19, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
that would prove he’s a better draw than Manny.
Well, sort of. He didn’t outdraw him last year. Mosley’s a much better opponent than Clottey, whose English sucks and who has never been in a truly major fight. Mosley-Mayweather will also be given the “24/7” treatment. It will prove that Mosley-Mayweather is a bigger fight than Pacquiao-Clottey, which it is, so fair enough.
No matter what the split is, once all the lawyers and managers get done with it, it’ll be divided up in part a, part b, part c, part d, etc. in such a way that it probably won’t make much difference anyway.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by SC on Mar 18, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
PPV numbers are based on both fighters...
The difference in PPV numbers will be because of Mosley vs Clottey and has little to do with Mayweather. Not acknowledging this is being ignorant to simple facts.
60/40 is the same thing as Floyd saying I am not interested in fighting Manny.
by Joseph Croasdaile on Mar 19, 2010 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Considering that Pac drew atleast 650k of the 700k then Id say he is a decent draw. Some people boycott the fight aswell and some knew Pac would win so just didnt wana lay down the money to see him hit arms for 12 rounds. Add it up and Manny can draw up to 700k, which is alot. Plus the hyping of this fight was rushed and bit on the low side so the casual fan might of even forgot about it
"It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up." - Ali
No way that Manny agrees to 60/40 for Mayweather. After negotiations for Pac/Mayweather fell apart, didn’t Bob Arum say that he wouldn’t be so accomidating the next time around?
Arum says a lot of things
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 19, 2010 6:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Arum
does say a lot of things, but off the top, it would seem tough to take anything less than 50/50.
by Don From Prov on Mar 19, 2010 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
650K-700K is a solid number, but not as good as I expected.
Going into the promotion, I predicted Pacquaio-Clottey would do around a million buys. I felt that it needed to do something in the area of the 1.05M that Mayweather-Marquez did. Clottey, like Marquez, is a no name in the mainstream, and Pacquaio and Mayweather had to carry those promotions alone. Marquez may have helped Mayweather a little because he’s currently Mexico’s best fighter. But, I don’t think Mayweather-Marquez get the same support from the hardcore fight community that Pacquaio-Clottey did, so I think it kinda balanced itself out. I’m prediction Mayweather-Mosley does 1.5M, and if it does, I don’t think there will be any question that Mayweather is the bigger draw. Mayweather has outdrawn Pac at a 2:1 clip against common opponents, and has managed to do better numbers with no name dance partners.
Mayweather-Marquez had two a lot of things going for it that this fight did not:
1. Marquez is Mexican, and the reigning king of the Mexican fighters
2. Mayweather, a celebrity fighter, was returning from “retirement”
3. 24/7
4. Way, way better promotion, even without 24/7
Which means that:
Clottey, like Marquez, is a no name in the mainstream
is right, but Marquez, unlike Clottey, has a very big non-mainstream following. Clottey has zero fanbase in America. Zero.
Mayweather has outdrawn Pac at a 2:1 clip against common opponents, and has managed to do better numbers with no name dance partners.
It was a different economy for Floyd-Oscar than it was Manny-Oscar, and Floyd had already beaten Hatton and Oscar before Manny got them anyway, plus people tend to ignore this, but Oscar-Manny was seen as a mismatch by the oddsmakers and a LOT of the audience.
And Mayweather-Hatton barely outdid Hatton-Pacquiao, which also took place in a worse economy than did the former fight. These things are not irrelevant or unworthy of examination. That 2:1 clip thing is Mayweather Math — of course it’s 2:1, because Floyd-Oscar (which was in large part the doing of Oscar de la Hoya, and not Floyd, although it is with that fight and its 24/7 that Floyd’s personality became a real sales factor) is the biggest fight of all time.
But it’s not like he’s out there averaging 2.4 mil per PPV.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by SC on Mar 18, 2010 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Here’s some math I’m curious about: How much would Mayweather-Clottey have done? First of all, for those in the know, the prospect of the matchup would have been as terrifying as Winky-Hopkins II. Of the remaining mainstream audience, Clottey is a complete stranger who recently lost a fight. I think it might have done more than Pacquiao-Clottey, but not much. I’m talking in the 5 figure area.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
I don’t know — I can’t really wrap my head around that because it wasn’t a possible fight, as Clottey is a Top Rank fighter and they’re not dealing with Mayweather. Pacquiao-Mosley, on the other hand, I figure for 1.3-1.5 mil or so, but I can figure something there with a level of confidence because that fight could conceivably have happened.
But best guess? Probably about the same, maybe very, very slightly higher. Tops 750-800K. It cannot be underestimated how useless Clottey is commercially.
I don’t mean to discredit Floyd as a celebrity or a draw at all. He’s a phenomenal PPV draw and with some help from Oscar making their fight so huge, he’s made himself that guy. Working for Arum he didn’t do this sort of business or even close. He got out there and made himself a major star with his personality. Whether you like it or not, and whether a lot of it’s an act or not, he generates a ton of interesting. There’s also the fact that he’s real fuckin’ good.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
This whole 24/7 thing....
Not everyone has HBO and can afford it right now…. we are in a recession :P
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
True
But I still think it makes a big difference, especially if episodes can be watched on Youtube. Most people agree that the hype for Pacquiao-Hatton was excellent and one thing notable about it was that all the 24/7s could be watched on Youtube in any country. They had very high views and I am convinced it made a big difference.
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 19, 2010 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d agree with Franklin that Mayweather has the slight edge here based on numbers. But there’s one wrinkle. If he beats Shane, who is left? Maybe if it turns into some kind of classic war, there could be rematch potential. But other than that, it’s all damaged goods. The one strong hand that Pacquiao can play is simple: he can walk away. Given the ugly smear campaign that was launched at him, it wouldn’t even seem that strange. He could go back to the Philippines and live like a king, or keep taking away Mayweather’s options by fighting and destroying them.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
I just hope Mosley wins, because Mosley-Pacman is a great matchup and there would be little trouble making the bout. Mayweather is not going to fight Pacquiao. He has one handy excuse (drug testing) already and, if Mayweather-Mosley does well in PPV, he’ll have yet another (since Pacman will never accept less than 50/50).
Now, Mayweather certainly likes to make money. But while Pacquiao offers the most money, he’s not Mayweather’s only option for a paycheck. He could opt for a range of bogus or semi-legit opponents, claiming that Pacquiao is ducking him along the way.
All this talk about numbers. And getting back to the table to talk. 50-50, 60-40 split. And I still can’t understand why Pacquiao just wouldn’t take the 40 million and take the damn tests. Money is always the fight killer. And that was already agreed on. And that’ was an amazing feat when considering Pacquiao hardheadedness and Mayweather’s monster ego. Pac had even gotten his silly demand for 10 million for every pound Mayweather was 147 agreed on. Yet Pacquiao just refused to play ball. And he will continue to refuse
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
I think
that there were more egos involved than just those of Manny and Floyd.
And I would guess that there will be more consensus on the testing—after scrimmages—this time around. I always thought that the fight would happen, if Floyd and Manny won their respective matches first, and I still think it will if Floyd beats Shane. There is just too much money and too much prestige involve. If the fight dies this next time around, then I’ll believe that it’s one of the fighters, not the entire network that surround each, that kills it, and that would be disappointing.
by Don From Prov on Mar 19, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
PPV buys.
I agree most of the reply here. I think Pac-Floyd will not happen if its 60-40. Other than the split, there’s an issue also regarding blood testing which unless the NSAC will change the way it test their fighters and both Pac-Floyd agrees to new commission rules. 650-700K is a decent numbers, and Floyd-Mosley will get more than 1.5M maybe.
Does anybody think...
that the “prize fighter” route on the money could result in even more buys for a Manny-Mayweather fight?
I mean, what if they split it 45-45, with the winner getting the last 10 percent? Could something “unheard of” like that generate even more buys? Enough to soothe some egos about negotiating?
Or am I being naive, Kay?
"Gowin on fourth and 14 will punt it away. He hangs it very high, angling it for the near sideline...HAKIM DROPS THE BALL!!! HAKIM DROPS THE BALL!! Brian Milne might've fallen on it at the ten yard line! It's the New Orleans Saints' football! Brian Milne, the most unlikely hero of them all, falls on the fumble, the muff by Hakim! There is a God after all!" -- Jim Henderson
by hakimdropstheball on Mar 19, 2010 1:32 AM EDT reply actions
I think that sort of system is a really good idea
But sadly it isn’t likely to appeal much to most top fighters and their promoters.
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 19, 2010 6:09 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s naive, probably, but would absolutely generate interest in the fight.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
PACQUIAO-MOSLEY A BIGGER DRAW
I’m pretty sure pacquiao-mosley is much bigger draw. so, lets have it first. then maybe 99-1 will go in pacmans favor. that will left flody crrrrrrrrryyyyiiinnngg…..
How old are you?
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
You want the ultimatum Floyd can run with?
Give me 65-35 or take the random blood tests. Your choice. It’s either 65-35 and no random blood tests or 50-50 and random blood tests.
I’d like to see Manny choose.
Twitter: @FlyByKnite
Manny would just tell him to GTFO
And wither retire or go fight some of the best at 140.
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 19, 2010 6:10 AM EDT up reply actions
65/35 is unreasonable
The reason he’ll be able to demand 40 is because the 40 is still more than Pac would make going elsewhere to fight, and even 40 is probably stretching it a bit. Pac just proved he can make 35 fighting a no-name.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I was thinking the same thing.
A bigger split with no drug tests, or 50-50 with drug tests. But then again, I agree with drunken cutman that Manny would rather walk away then actually negotiate any of that with Mayweather.
Something else to consider is that Mosley has never been a big draw. Don’t get me wrong, I think he should be, but he never built up a following like De La Hoya, Mayweather, or Pacquiao. So even though Mosley is by and far a bigger name then Clottey, let’s not try and inflate his drawing power when analyzing the numbers as soon as Mayweather-Mosley is over.
Right. And everyone’s last memory of Mosley is of him smashing Margie to bits. Everyone’s last memory of Clottey is of the guy who lost to Cotto because he couldn’t keep the pressure on.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
Nobody is saying Mosley is a major draw. I’ve said exactly what you’re saying a million times — Mosley should have been a huge star, but he’s not. He’s just not.
However, Mosley is a massive draw in comparison to Joshua Clottey. Mosley did huge PPVs with Oscar, did a huge live draw with Margarito last year (all-time Staples Center record), and did a great house at MSG with Miguel Cotto. In a lot of ways, he was the B-side to all of those fights, but they were all successes. Mosley is a tremendous B-side; he’s a mediocre A-side. That’s where the “Mosley isn’t a draw” thing comes from. He’s not a draw on his own, but he’s very strong as the “other guy” in a fight.
Joshua Clottey has zero drawing power whatsoever. Mosley gets knocked for not “being a draw” because he’s not a major draw. But if you put Shane Mosley in a good fight against a “no-name opponent” in any decent fight city in America (Vegas, LA, NYC, Atlantic City, etc.) he’ll put around 10,000 people in the seats. You put Joshua Clottey in that exact same situation and they might get 2-4K in the building. Mosley is much, much bigger of a star than Joshua Clottey.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by SC on Mar 19, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I know that.
I’m just saying that we need to weigh his drawing power properly is all.
indeed
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by SC on Mar 20, 2010 3:50 AM EDT up reply actions
I was thinking the same thing
If Mayweather gets more buys AND beats Mosley he can play that card when negoitating.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
Or
If he does play that card, play it behind the scenes where it belongs.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
yeah I don't think that they will let the talks leak out to the media....
Well at least until Arum opens his big mouth.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
It won't be Arum this time
It was just an epically stupid thing to do in the first place, to talk about this shit in the open. It might’ve murdered the fight forever.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
I hope not
I liked that in the last negotiations Mayweather kept his mouth shut. I don’t want to hear from any of the camps going back in forth with the media, it’s annoying, until the deal is done.
"I guess I can’t do anything if you’re just irrational, but to point it out and move on."
- fundamentallysound
The best thing Floyd can do to get this fight back on the radar is to make a public apology to Pacquiao, as sincerely as he can manage, make some vague statement about how he was actually trying to “help the sport” but that it got out of hand. If they want to talk about testing in negotiations, shut the door and lock it and soundproof it.
Going after a guys legacy like that is dirty pool, and it’s as risky for Floyd’s legacy as it is for Manny’s, which is where the stupidity comes in. Sure if Pacquaio passes all the tests and Floyd beats him, it would open the door to the whole “maybe he was juicing before” to every penny-ante boxing historian. But, if Manny passed and beat the everloving shit out of Floyd? Well than his worst nightmare comes true, and he becomes the classless b-side when they talk about this era’s greatest fighters. History would be merciless.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
Fat chance
No way Mayweather apologies.
Sure if Pacquaio passes all the tests and Floyd beats him, it would open the door to the whole "maybe he was juicing before" to every penny-ante boxing historian.
I disagree. I think it depends on how Manny looks. If there is any type of significant degradation in his performance, then it is only natural for people to think that. But, if Mayweather just looks better, then I don’t see any reason for people to think that at all. Losing to Mayweather in and of itself is not a reason for people to assume Pacquaio was juicing before. In fact, that’s kind of insulting to Mayweather as a fighter.
Well, I did say “penny-ante” historian, historian after all. But that’s the song that would be played, justified or not. As far as I’m concerned, it was a blatant machine gun attack on Manny’s legacy. Was it designed that way? Maybe it was. Great boxers, like great opera divas, do not like to share the stage. Manny already outshines Floyd in the minds of many people, and that’s not good for ego or for business.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
History may well be cruel to Mayweather
As far as I can tell from looking at boxing histories legacies are absolutely ripped apart where possible and a great deal of importance is placed upon them.
I’m not saying he had a bad resume I’m just saying it won’t stand up to Manny’s in most people’s minds in 20 or 30 years time.
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 19, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
If anything Pacquiao should be the one that should issue a public apology. How you going to knock somebody for wanting a level playing field and is willing to take the same tests you are? I mean come on. Roach likes to play up that Manny is naive and doesn’t know certain things. Yeah ok. Maybe 10 years ago when Manny first came to the US. But not now. The juicing, steroid issue has dominated the sports world for the last couple of years. It’s bullshit to think Manny is unaware of the problem. He knows what steroids are. There everywhere. Why pass on the chance to show the world your not a cheating muthafukka? Yes being accused without any proof is a fucked up feeling. But damn your getting 40 million. Forget an ice cream cone. Buy yourself an ice cream truck and make that feeling go away. Just take the damn tests. It might not seem like it now. But if this fight doesn’t happen cuz of tests refusal on Manny’s part than I think it becomes obvious he’s hiding something.
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
by Violent Demise on Mar 19, 2010 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m pretty much done arguing with people about this sickening nonsense. If it was a serious issue for Floyd, then it should handled behind close doors, period. The public tirades and accusations were all about getting a bunch of lunatics and shittalking lowlifes like Malignaggi to howl from the rooftops that Manny is a drug cheat. It’s the worst sucker punch the sport has taken since Margarito, and may have killed the biggest fight in a generation.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Mar 19, 2010 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What world you live in? The way things are now a days there is no such thing as behind close doors any more. Everything gets out. Everything. And it looks like that’s the problem for Manny. Everything eventually comes out.
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
by Violent Demise on Mar 19, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I live in a world where a great many things are done behind closed doors, and where private arbitration, and where certain contractual clauses that could be potentially be harmful to someone’s public image are quietly negotiatied, while the mouthpieces and media shills shout a completely unrelated story in the media megaphones.
And the world of professional boxing is no different, darling. Boxing is run by fucking lawyers, and has been for a long time now. Don’t let anyone tell you any different.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
Yes boxing is run by lawyers “darling”. And if you know that than why are you surprised nothing is behind close doors? Everybody is looking for an edge. And everybody is trying to protect themselves. The world is run by snitches. Everybody always got something to say. That won’t change. Only thing to do is adapt. The accusations and rumors are out there for Manny. And there not going away until he takes the tests. Tests that he will be handsomely rewarded for too. He wants to dig his own ditch by continuing to refuse than let him. The backlash will be worse after a second failed attempt due to test taking.
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
by Violent Demise on Mar 19, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
And if you know that than why are you surprised nothing is behind close doors?
Because I’ve been behind those closed doors on many occasions, that’s why.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
As have I. You know what i learn from them close door meetings? You can’t trust anybody. But that’s besides the point. Cuz wishing things were behind close doors don’t change the fact that they ain’t. Pacquiao must take the tests for the fight to happen. Mayweather will bend on 50-50. But he won’t on the tests. Take them and get it over with. Than take your frustrations out on him by beating him to a pulp.
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
by Violent Demise on Mar 19, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Not true. Binding arbitration with significant money penalties has sealed many a secret in the tomb. It’s not people you can trust, but paper. If you could trust people, the world wouldn’t need lawyers. And if you could trust lawyers, the world wouldn’t need judges.
And it’s not beside the point. If Floyd insists on doubling down on stupid – which is exactly what he would be doing if he insists on screaming drug cheat at a guy who, even if he took enough HGH to make his neck explode, will walk into the ring the smaller man on fight night. Dumb, dumb stuff.
The whole thing reminds me of a conversation I had with a brand team about 6 or 7 years ago. Talking about the press agent, the brand manager said “He’d turned them all so stupid that they’re begining to think they’re smart.” That should be engraved on a plaque somewhere in the IBHOF.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
I don’t think anybody is calling Floyd a genius. Cuz he’s far from it. He’s put himself in a situation where he has to keep demanding the tests. If he all of a sudden drops the demand than it makes it look like he was scared to fight the first time. His monster ego can’t have that. And truthfully I don’t think he should bend. Manny got his ludicrous demand for 10 million for every pound over 147 met. While shouldn’t Floyd get his demand met? Especially if he’s taking the tests as well? Jesus Christ. It’s like we going in circles.
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
by Violent Demise on Mar 19, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
If he all of a sudden drops the demand than it makes it look like he was scared to fight the first time. His monster ego can’t have that.
And maybe he was… or at least that one way the spinmeisters could spin it, therefore adding interest to the fight.
His monster ego can’t have that.
Well then, his monster checkbook might take a hit. That’s a typical math problem everyone has to solve sooner or later.
And truthfully I don’t think he should bend.
I don’t care if he bends or not. I don’t care if they fight fro beer money on a Carnival Cruise line in the middle of the Atlantic. I just want the fight to come off. He’s already wounded the chances of that happening with this stunt, and if he keeps pushing it he might kill it altogether.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
By the way, it’s worth noting that they just sealed the deal on Olympic testing for Mayweather-Mosley. And they did it without an ugly, public media campaign of accusations. Go figure. Money’s people are even starting to read from the script I suggested, where they are saying he’s “doing it to help the sport.” That’s a good start.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
That’s cuz Mosley is willing to take the tests. So lets see. Mosley has no problem taking tests. Mayweather has no problem taking tests. There fight gets made. Pacquiao has a problem taking the tests. His fight can’t get made. Yet people are bad mouthing Mayweather. Unbelievable. Can people really not see the problem? I doubt this can be dumb down any further.
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
by Violent Demise on Mar 19, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Imagine that. A guy who has lived under a cloud of BALCO investigations for years gets a behind-closed-doors negotiation without a public smear job, and the fight gets made. Weanwhile Pacquiao, for whom there is no evidence whatsoever of drug use, gets fistfuls of turds thrown at him, and the fight gets sunk. Has Money learned how business deals are done? Maybe.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
Nobody ever said this was a fair world we live in. It is what it is. People like to say Boxing is the one suffering by Mayweathers actions. Yeah there’s some truth to that. But i think Boxing suffers a damn near death blow if it were to ever come out that Manny is indeed dirty.
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
by Violent Demise on Mar 19, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t give a lick about what’s fair or not fair about the negotiations. Not one lick! Like any boxing fan, I just want to see the damn bout come off, period. If that means they get blood tested every four minutes until their veins look like Mick Jagger’s after a weekend in Miami, so be it! If they fight for four hundred dollars and a new TV, that’s okay by me too. Boxing will be just fine with or without this fight, but it would obviously help the sport if they made the deal. The gimmick of calling Manny a drug cheat doesn’t help the sport, or the fighters or the fans or the army of sharks the pull the strings. That should be obvious.
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
All this time and it turns out we see things the same way. I don’t care what they do just make the damn fight..
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
by Violent Demise on Mar 19, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
55-45 Mayweather
Lets be fair, Pacaman is a huge draw. Even 50-50 would be fair. I love both fighters but I have Mayweather outboxing him. Clotteys footwork, well is nothing I’d call footwork.
Geez I just realized there’s another picture of Clottey throwing a punch up there. Where are all these pictures coming from. Did they use some kind of special camera?
"This fight'll be the nastiest thing you'll ever see. I been sober for six weeks, and that makes me vicious."
-- Randall 'Tex' Cobb
by jrok on Mar 19, 2010 12:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Now that’s funny!
If you always thought what you thought, then you wouldn't think what you knew.
by Haans Bishop on Mar 19, 2010 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Marquez has a whole country behind him!
hehe
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 19, 2010 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
This,
so far, non-fight between MP and Floyd is kind of the OJ Simpson murder trial of boxing.
At least with—as much as possible—race taken out.
Time, money, and the fighters’ desire to prove they are the best should win out.
Thank goodness not many ppl had to sit through it.
Joshie “Here for the pay-check” Clottey was like a basketball team that brings the ball up the court and lets the shot clock expire every possession without attempting a shot. He doesn’t deserve any extra cash from a lot of PPV numbers.
"And so, as, uh, Heavyweight Champion recognized by nine of the fourteen sanctioning bodies..." -Drederick Tatum, The Simpsons
No way I see Pac taking less than 50%
What ever the figures are for Mayweather-Mosley I can’t see Pac accepting less than 50%. I think he sees himself as the Champion and Floyd as the challenger and he’s stubborn – remember the Hatton fight was nearly blown until Arum stepped in and offered him a bit extra.
Unfotunately I think SC is right – I think it’s another potential barrier. If Mayweather – Mosley is competitive (or of course if Mosley wins) – then that could still be a good option for Manny. Other than that though I’m not sure what would be his best option.
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