Final Thoughts: Abraham-Dirrell
by Scott Christ on Mar 28, 2010 2:27 PM EDT
in Boxing Results and Post-Fight Analysis
Email
Print
Last night, the Super Six World Boxing Classic again provided plenty of news, though again probably not exactly the sort of news that anyone involved really wanted.
So far almost every tournament fight has had a cloud hanging over it, though none consistent with the last. In the first fight on October 17, Arthur Abraham knocked out Jermain Taylor. It was clean and a big win for Abraham, but most of the focus was on Taylor, who was in bad shape and eventually dropped out of the tournament. No one really knows what Taylor's future in boxing is at this moment.
That same night, Carl Froch and Andre Dirrell engaged in one of the dirtiest fights of recent memory, with neither side putting on the "positive" performance that Froch was credited for by his supporters. And at the end of it, a large number of the people watching felt Dirrell was robbed of a decision win, even if they didn't particularly enjoy watching him fight that night.
Even the Ward-Kessler fight was, arguably, marred by Ward putting on an Evander Holyfield-level show with his tactics, though that fight doesn't quite qualify for the cloud factor because the focus was definitely on Ward's coming out as an elite pro boxer.
And last night, Dirrell put on a clinic against Abraham for most of the night, and in the 11th round, Abraham launched a vicious right hand while Dirrell was obviously on the mat, knocking him out and losing by disqualification.
Add all of this to the delayed fights of Stage Two (every fight has been moved at least one week, and one fight has been bumped back two months), and sadly I think you can say the Super Six has garnered as much iffy press as positive press. In three of four fights, the fight hasn't exactly been the focal point when all was said and done.
So let's look at the fight last night, or at least try to.
Andre Dirrell
Dirrell's performance was in some ways reminiscent of Ward's against Kessler, at least in that he rather thoroughly dominated a world class European fighter on American soil, and in both cases, you'd have a decent enough point to note that the American referees may have played a part in that.
Not particularly in a negative manner, either, though Ward certainly got away with plenty of fouls and Laurence Cole was as bad as ever last night. In Kessler's case, he was faced with a referee who just wasn't giving him any help against Ward, which maybe he should have. But it's also the fighter's responsibility at that point to adjust to what's happening. Referees are human, the same as umpires with different strike zones and the referees in the Heat-Mavericks NBA Finals ... OK, bad example.
Still, Kessler didn't adjust, and never got himself into the fight. Last night, Abraham did his usual complaining about every borderline shot -- two actual low blows, and about seven straight-up body shots. Not that anyone does, but Arthur Abraham really doesn't like being hit to the body, and in Germany he's usually had referees who will stop the action and make sure he's OK to continue. Cole wasn't totally ignoring him all the time, but there was one clear point where Abraham went into his routine, stopped fighting, and Dirrell -- after hesitating for a moment -- went at him when it was clear that Cole wasn't going to rush over and tend to Arthur.
For those that might think I'm being a bit harsh on King Arthur here, I just see no other way to describe it. The man whines about body shots. He did it against Taylor and has done it against others. He did it last night. Either Arthur Abraham inexplicably is hit with more low blows than anyone I've ever seen, or his reproductive organs are exceptionally high on his body.
Otherwise, Dirrell did exactly what he was supposed to do. Those calling for the upset (and there were a lot of people who felt it was going to happen) pretty much mapped it out as it came, except it wasn't a DQ on paper. He boxed beautifully, used good lateral movement most of the time, and busted Arthur up. He also got away with some fouls -- his head played a part in Abraham's cut, for one thing, and that can't just be ignored as if it made no difference.
Dirrell also seemed to be tiring out toward the end of the fight, explained probably by how much energy he had to exert to build that big lead on Abraham. Would he have survived another five minutes? Maybe, maybe not. That's the thing that stinks second-most about the DQ: we looked like we could be in for a REALLY dramatic finish. Instead, we got a despicable DQ.
Arthur Abraham
It has been pointed out that in the past, guys like Lajuan Simon and Elvin Ayala and even Jermain Taylor had some success with Abraham doing the things Dirrell did last night. The differences:
- Simon and Ayala aren't near Dirrell's level, meaning they could do the same things but not quite as well
- Taylor wasn't exactly the 100% prime Jermain Taylor when Abraham fought him, which is not to say Abraham's win wasn't legit or good (it was both), but that Taylor was also not on last night's Dirrell's level
Dirrell, at 6'2", towered over Abraham, who is generously listed most places at 5'10" and by Showtime at 5'9". He peppered him, moved around him, and sliced and diced him pretty damn effectively. Simply put, Arthur Abraham found himself in a fight that physically, he almost could not win if the other guy did his job right, and Dirrell was doing his job right for the vast majority of the fight. The height, the speed, the southpaw stance and the movement of Dirrell made Abraham fight all night like he usually fights the first three rounds, which is to say very tentatively.
Of course, those first three rounds for Arthur are historically him feeling out his opponent and looking for opportunities. It seems as though he stores them in his mind for later in the fight, waiting for those chances to arrive again, and generally, he takes advantage of them. Dirrell really didn't let him get into any kind of rhythm last night.
That's not to say Abraham never troubled Andre. He deserved a knockdown, in my estimation, because the punch that landed was sending Dirrell down with or without Abraham's foot being there, but that's a tough call to make, too. He also had Dirrell on the ropes and was firing away recklessly with monster shots. What happens there if Cole doesn't break the action? It was no doubt stupid of Dirrell to stay on the ropes, and I bet even he knew that. (I also think Dirrell was trying to prove his heart some last night, and I think he did in a lot of ways.) But Dirrell was avoiding shots pretty well, too. Would Abraham have done more to tire himself out than to hurt Dirrell there? No way to know now, of course.
This is not a case where I suddenly feel like Arthur Abraham is a bad fighter or that Andre Dirrell is the second coming. Styles make fights, and they sure as hell made this one. Abraham couldn't uncork the big shots much with Dirrell, and Andre used every single physical advantage he had, and used them all well. It was without question, by far the best performance of Andre Dirrell's pro career. It was probably Abraham's worst, but Dirrell made it that way. Both have their flaws as men inside the ring. Every fighter does.
When you break down the fight, it was very interesting, and I think taught us a lot more about Abraham than it did Dirrell. Anyone that had seen Dirrell fight a few times before this knew he had this sort of talent in him. It was always a question of his mental game, and of whether or not he'd have the guts to take some risks. He showed the guts last night, and Abraham found himself in a new position against a fighter a class above (at least) the other guys he's been fighting.
I hate the way this fight ended as much as anyone, and yes, the ugly DQ combined with Abraham's smug post-fight interview does make me think a bit less of King Arthur. But there was plenty to take from this besides the DQ. I think you can say that for both guys, the "styles make fights" thing rings true in almost every matchup. After this, I would never pick Abraham to beat Andre Ward (though he could beat him, sure), and I think we're starting to get a real grip on Dirrell as a pro fighter. Some guys he's going look spectacular against, some guys he's not going to look good at all. That's just the nature of his style and his fighting demeanor, I would say.
We move on now to ... Hopkins-Jones II. Oh, hell, can we keep talking about the DQ and Laurence Cole?
108 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Can’t finf much fault with what you said in there. Good stuff.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Mar 28, 2010 2:58 PM EDT reply actions
Good write up. One other thing that I don’t think has been mentioned is that while Dirrell was pitching his shut-out, he often did FAR MORE than he needed to do to put rounds in the bank. For almost all of the first eight rounds, he really piled on the punches and didn’t run an awful lot. He moved laterally, stepped in to unload 2, 3 and 4 punch combinations on Arthur’s belly and/or anatomically incorrect weinerschnitzel. He fought a very, very good fight, and it was not the least bit dull.
I loved in particular the way he let Abraham steer him towards the neutral corner over and over and elude that big sweeping left hook. After he did it the third or fourth time, he woman and I started shouting “Ole!” You could see it was frustrating the living hell out of Abraham too.
"I fought Sugar Ray so much, I’m surprised I’m not diabetic."
-- Jake LaMotta
Random Thoughts
I gave a couple of rounds to AA, specifically the 3rd and the 10th. Another question, did anyone take a closer look AA flying through the ropes in the 7th round. I thought AA was a little out of control and Dirrell caught him on the way down and could have been called another KD. In a similar way to the Froch fight, I thought Dirrell did a very good job dealing with the power of his opponent (Dirrell really has an underrated chin). Do you guys think that AA should be punished points wise for the intentional DQ?
no
They do that and he probably just drops out of the tournament. I mean I’m pretty sure we all agree he did it at least with momentary maliciousness. I don’t think he’s a son of a bitch or anything, but for a split second he allowed himself to unleash a hellacious, awful foul that he knew was a hellacious awful foul. But proving that he didn’t just make a mistake is harder. Plus, like jrok said, the contracts for the tournament are pretty strict.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 28, 2010 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
i don’t think he knew that it was a hellacious awful foul. after cole tells him to go to a neutral corner you see AA throw his arms up the way that fighters usually do when they are warned for a low blow when they think its bullshit. hell even in his post-fight interviews (according to dan rafael on espn.com’s recap of the figh) he claimed that he was “looking at his eyes, not his knees”, and never knew that he was down. as if looking down at a guy who towers over you when standing isn’t a clear indication of him being down.
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on Mar 29, 2010 1:41 AM EDT up reply actions
3 rounds
I had given Abraham 3 rounds. The 3rd, 8th and 10th. He was also winning the 11th. Dirrell clearly had the fight won though at the time of the DQ. No doubt. I have my recap on Examiner up to: http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-33584-Cleveland-Boxing-Examiner~y2010m3d28-Dirrell-upsets-Abraham
Cleveland Boxing Examiner
by Cleveland Boxing Examiner on Mar 28, 2010 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn’t watch the whole fight up until the 10 and 11th round and it looks like AA was gaining some momentum before the DQ…
by Dis_fool_be_trippin on Mar 28, 2010 3:43 PM EDT reply actions
He was.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 28, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Damn straight he was.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Mar 28, 2010 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
He was going for that late KO that he has done before…
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
Rewatching the final rounds, AA had no kind of momentum at all. He got the questionable KD in the 10th and had a little mo at the end of that round but he lost every second of that round before that KD. In the 11th AA landed a grand total of 1 jab. How is that momentum? Dirrell was clearly winning that round to that point because he landed a couple of solid body shot. He avoided every shot and was on his bike dancing circles around AA. AA actually did something shady earlier in the fight as well. He got Dirrell in a head lock and just nails him in the back in the 9th. AA was displaying almost Tyson levels of frustration in that fight and his actions were disgusting.
by Waldo Rastel on Mar 29, 2010 3:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree.
I think people who believe AA was about to knock out Dirrell are simply projecting the results of past fights on to this one. The actual action in the ring at the time did little to suggest that AA was going to KO Dirrell. More likely, Dirrell would have got on his bicycle and cruised to a points win.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
Dirrell was slowing down significantly (and seemed a bit nervy to me) and Abraham was going for broke. I don’t think people are automatically assuming that Abraham was going to knock him out, just that the potential for high drama was definitely there.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 29, 2010 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Dirrell was taking the advice of his corner and being cautious. I didn’t see any change in the speed difference between AA and Dirrell. Meaning that both were slowing down but at the same rate.
by Waldo Rastel on Mar 30, 2010 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Some final observations
I submit, for what it is worth, that when a boxer is suspected of suffering a severe concussion (doctor’s words), he is generally put on a strretcher and whisked away to a hospital for an examination. This is the one of the few times I have seen a concussion or brain bleed suspect led led back to the locker room on his own power. I don’t know if he complained of nausea, but if he had, he should have been taken to the hospital ASAP, for that is one of the very worse warnings there is of trouble. Also, this is the first time I have ever heard a ring doctor use the phrase “brain bleed” before an examination. The diffrence between brain bleed and concussion is all the diffrence in the world. It can be the diffrence between life and death. Detroit officias handle this in a shabby manner.
As for the doctor taking too much time with AA’s cut, I think what he was trying to determine was whether the bleeding could be stopped. I had no major issue with that. Better that than to have the fight stopped because of the cut.
I also note that the place looked empty. Why? And where was the ring security?
Boxingin Detroit is on the downswing. Last night was evidence of why this is a fact.
Finally, I was delighted to see that Vernon “The Iceman” Paris won his 20th on the undercard. This kid is an old school cutie and can really fight. Keep your eyes on Paris.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Mar 28, 2010 3:54 PM EDT reply actions
Boxing in Detroit is on the downswing. Last night was evidence of why this is a fact.
I’ll raise this and say that boxing in Detroit is all but dead, which saddens me.
Finally, I was delighted to see that Vernon "The Iceman" Paris won his 20th on the undercard. This kid is an old school cutie and can really fight. Keep your eyes on Paris.
I would REALLY like to see Vernon get out of the Michigan club circuit and take some steps up. Hopefully he’s feeling ready after 20 fights. He’s got some talent.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 28, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
He has future champ witten all over him if he cabn get his persnallife in order which he seems to have done for the past year anyway. He needs to stay away from Florida and , as you indicate, step up a bit. He has some moves in that ring that I have not seen in years.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Mar 28, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Abraham-Dirrell
The end was bizarre, but I think Dirrell was so dazed that it would have been unfair to continue the fight. But even if it wasn’t a DQ from that AD was comfortably ahead on the cards. Bottom line was that AD was too strong and Abraham has a hard time getting inside on guys at 168. AD was knocking him back the whole fight and Abraham really did not have an answer. Something tells me that Abraham has a small smile on his face today though. He felt like he was in a no win situation anyway, and the fact that he got a cheap shot on Dirrell and caused some damage probably made the loss easier on his ego. Read my full recap on my Examiner site here: http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-33584-Cleveland-Boxing-Examiner~y2010m3d28-Dirrell-upsets-Abraham
Cleveland Boxing Examiner
by Cleveland Boxing Examiner on Mar 28, 2010 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Am I seriously alone Here?
I can not possibly be the only person who saw that fight and believes that he was acting his ass off, AA did not sit down on that punch it wasn’t Flush, Dirrel had a look of frustration and then decided to get knocked out, he knew what was at stake and took advantage of the opportunity, cause AA was coming back for that A$$. But then Dirrel stayed in character for too long with his shananigans.
You will all be happy to know that Dirrel has been released and he is doing just fine…
Mari Torres That's My Word Radio Show.com
It was absolutely flush. That punch chomped down on his chin. The way he held his forehead after getting nailed on the chin was a telltale sign for anyone who’s ever had a concussion or seen one. Feels like there’s a ten alarm fire in there.
And no one wants to end a fight that way, especially in a championship fight their hometown in front of their fans and an international audience. He was in bad shape from that punch.
"I fought Sugar Ray so much, I’m surprised I’m not diabetic."
-- Jake LaMotta
Yea, he was faking it
especially the part in the ring where he was crying because he was convinced he lost, having no clue or no comprehension that he got the win by DQ.
If Dirrell was acting fly him to Hollywood right now, because he was more convincing than Daniel Day Lewis ever could hope to be.
by John Nash on Mar 28, 2010 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well I'm glad our resident mind reader sorted this one out for us
And I like Daniel Day Lewis…
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 30, 2010 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
who doesn't?
Show me that person and I’ll show you someone who may as well stop watching movies that aren’t Zoolander or Wedding Crashers or whatever.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 31, 2010 4:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Have you seen him in the film adaptation of the Crucible?
Sweet stuff!
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 31, 2010 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Solid analysis all around...
Just tell me you dropped the “ban hammer” on that troll from the other night who started getting on everyone’s nerves.
"Gowin on fourth and 14 will punt it away. He hangs it very high, angling it for the near sideline...HAKIM DROPS THE BALL!!! HAKIM DROPS THE BALL!! Brian Milne might've fallen on it at the ten yard line! It's the New Orleans Saints' football! Brian Milne, the most unlikely hero of them all, falls on the fumble, the muff by Hakim! There is a God after all!" -- Jim Henderson
by hakimdropstheball on Mar 28, 2010 3:55 PM EDT reply actions
What did the troll say?
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Mar 28, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
guy from last night?
That’s done.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 28, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Watch Arthur win the Super Six!!
Some people are acting like Pacquiao should be expected to have just gone, "Yeah sure, let’s do something I’ve never done before because your dad made some dumbass baseless comment."
(SC, 28/12/09; http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/12/27/1221143/mayweather-pacquiao-update-bob#comments)
You have to give props to a very young Dirrell…only 19 pro fights and he stuck to his teams’ plan under severe duress. And I lost a LOT of respect for AA….his whining after the fight was outrageous, even after seeing the replay of his disgusting cheap shot. He and Kessler both showed very bad form after losing.
What pissed me off is that he wasn’t even concerned with Dirrell’s well being… as a fighter you don’t want to mane someone at the end of the day. You just want to win.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
No remorse
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Mar 28, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
its funny how people don’t have the same anger against Benn during the McClellan tragedy. obv different circumstances (AA = directly responsible, Benn = indirectly responsible in the sense that they were in a brawl), but still Benn was as dickish that night as AA was last night
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on Mar 29, 2010 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Unfortunatley, I am afraid you are correct.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Mar 28, 2010 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you should give this tourney more props
Even with the problems, it is amazing what they’ve done. 6 guys at this level all agreeing to these fights is a huge treat for us fans. I will gladly take the BS that goes along with it. The Andres have already proven that anyone in the tourney can beat anyone else, I don’t think anyone will win the whole thing without taking a loss. This is so unusual today with so much emphasis on the perfect records. I mean going in, we had 4 perfect records and Kessler only losing to Calzaghe.
I agree, imagine this
what if green beats ward by knockout, which I admit is not probable at least not by knock out, and Kessler KO’s Froch. Then we have a huge fight between the 2 Andre’s. Only one will advance and that kind of excitement doesn’t happen all the time in boxing.
Oh yeah, I'm still excited by the tourney...
I think the “negative” pub at the moment is just that — in the moment. I think when this thing comes to a conclusion, unless it’s filled with more trouble and poor endings like the one from last night, everyone is going to look at this tourney as a good thing.
This might hopefully give HBO a push to forge ahead with a 140-pound tournament.
"Gowin on fourth and 14 will punt it away. He hangs it very high, angling it for the near sideline...HAKIM DROPS THE BALL!!! HAKIM DROPS THE BALL!! Brian Milne might've fallen on it at the ten yard line! It's the New Orleans Saints' football! Brian Milne, the most unlikely hero of them all, falls on the fumble, the muff by Hakim! There is a God after all!" -- Jim Henderson
by hakimdropstheball on Mar 28, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
That would be fantastic
I see more tournaments only being a good thing for boxing, especially if we consider that fighters protecting their records, and no clear champions, are common and legitimate complaints from fans and potential fans alike.
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 30, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
It has been creative and on any given night, one guy can beat another. It has been a great thing for boxing.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Mar 28, 2010 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s not that I’m not appreciating the fact that these fights are happening, or that I don’t seriously tip my cap to Showtime’s Ken Hershman for not just having the vision to do this, but then make it happen. And I’ve also enjoyed the tournament. It’s made a great division even better. I’m just saying that every fight (almost) thus far has been perhaps more about “other” stuff than the fight itself, and that they’ve already run into some of the problems we could have predicted would happen. But I love the tournament, and I pray it concludes properly and in exciting fashion, so that more things like this can happen. When all is said and done, I think the profiles of everyone involved (save perhaps for Jermain Taylor) have been raised.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 29, 2010 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think anyone in this tournament can or will beat Andre Ward.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
I think everyone in this tournament can beat Andre Ward. …maybe not Allan Green.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 29, 2010 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Really, you still see Kessler doing that?
I’d have to say it seems like a REALLY long shot to me.
I suppose if you want to take a strict definition as in “has any possibility whatsoever,” sure anyone can beat anyone here. I was being a tad hyperbolic.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
I could, yes. In Denmark with a different referee. I mean Ward got away with a lot in that fight. He kicked Kessler’s ass and it’s because Kessler can’t adjust worth a crap, but Ward got away with a lot.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 29, 2010 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
When you think about how we used to praise Kessler, the phrase that always came up was “technically sound.” Ward beats him at his own game. He is a better technical boxer than Kessler in terms of both the big and the little picture. He’s more technically sound, as well as being more athletic. So much faster. And what’s more, smarter in the ring. I just don’t see any way Kessler beats Ward with fair scoring and even with home cooking, it would surprise me. What does Kessler do better than Ward?
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on Mar 29, 2010 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions
He hits harder. He’s more Danish.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 30, 2010 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
He’s more Danish.
You’ve got me there.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on Mar 30, 2010 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
It's more generalizations
But a technically sound unorthodox boxer will usually beat a technically sound orthodox one
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I believe you may well be right.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Mar 29, 2010 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Dirrell-Abraham
Dirrell proved to be way to much for Arthur to handle. His power was on display as he kept Abraham back the entire fight. Strange ending, but the ref made the right call. I think Abraham is going to have issues against these strong, talented guys at 168. Ready my full recap here on Examiner: http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-33584-Cleveland-Boxing-Examiner~y2010m3d28-Dirrell-upsets-Abraham
Cleveland Boxing Examiner
by Cleveland Boxing Examiner on Mar 28, 2010 5:18 PM EDT reply actions
yeah.
if he can’t handle what Dirrell was doing, what the hell is he going to do with a street fighter like Carl Froch?
Vote Quimby
I've been saying all along
Froch will beat Abraham. I am much more convinced of this than I was for Dirrell, who I thought stood a good chance but could still get KOed.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
The more I realise that Froch is going to beat more
people in the super six, the more I dislike him. It’s hard to explain but I can’t help feeling a strong dislike for someone with so little respect for other fighters, and such considerable arrogance. Especially seeing as he is slow, easy to hit and far from technically sound.
Pascal brawled and Froch hits harder, Taylor gassed, and Dirrell was robbed. And yet he acts like he is Marvin Hagler or something.
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 30, 2010 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
FINAL THOUGHTS
Lets face it, arthur pretty much saw that after the COLE didn’t call the last knockout he did, and he was fed up with all of the body shots and low blows, which btw i didn’t notice Abraham throw any low blow’s, abraham was playing clean, and Direll was getting desperate toward the end, running around the ring, trying to avoid Abraham’s hooks. Basically it was like trying to play street ball with a bunch of dirty thugs, after they foul you so much you get fed up with it, and just knock em out. I think he is using his youth as way to much of an excuse, and all the dramatic acting from his brother or manager, was totally unnecessary, its not like anyone did anything abraham got those low blows, if you play dirty, your going to get whats coming to you.
so
getting hit while your down is what he had coming to him for flat out beating him there wasn’t alot of low blows the one knock down he should of got is not andre s fault there’s a bad ref in every sport and we don’t let the teams take cheap shots there so thats no reason to hit a man when he’s clearly down aa got beat no ifs’ands’or buts about it
Using movement to avoid getting hit when you know you are ahead on the cards is not “fighting like a dirty thug.” It’s trying to win on points. There is nothing dirty about it. You could argue that it’s lame, but nothing thuggish about it.
Punching someone when they are down, on the other hand, is the definition of fighting like a dirty thug.
Direll’s low actual blows were pretty minimal. Abraham whined like a mofo at anything near his body.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
Abraham whined like a mofo at anything near his body.
And he always does. And the European refs always agree with him for some reason. I actually liked Cole a few times in that fight when AA was complaining about low blows and he just ignored him completely, and even one time answered with a simple “No he didn’t”. He was pants of heads ridiculous the rest of the time but I enjoyed those little bits.
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 30, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
and he was fed up with all of the body shots and low blows
Go count it — there were two low blows. He (Abraham) also whined five other times. “Body shots” are not illegal.
Direll was getting desperate toward the end, running around the ring, trying to avoid Abraham’s hooks
Yeah he should stand there and let him hit him, I guess. You know what else I didn’t like? When Abraham stood there covering his face so that Dirrell couldn’t hit him. What a jerk!
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 29, 2010 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions
My official count from Saturday was 2 actual shots and then 7 times total where he actually complained including those 2 actual shots. He seemed to complain every time there was a shot close to the beltline. Why does he keep doing this?
by Waldo Rastel on Mar 29, 2010 3:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I watched it again after you pointed that out. I had the same tally, too.
And he does it because in Germany they stop the action and wag their fingers at the other fellow every time he asks them to.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 29, 2010 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Half of Abraham's "low blows" were legal punches on the beltline
And it’s not like Abraham was completely clean. As usual, there were a few elbow hooks thrown in there (as there always are for Ulli Wegner fighters…he’s great at teaching guys how to follow through a hook with an elbow…Marco Huck is much better at it than Abraham even).
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
It seems to me
And it has been mentioned on here a few times, that refs are becoming increasingly harsh on perfectly legitimate, or borderline, body shots. It seems unfair to me and I think that some bocers, such as AA perhaps, are capitalising on it.
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 30, 2010 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Kudos to Violent Demise
BTW, MAJOR PROPS to Violent Demise for calling the fight right on the head
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Mar 28, 2010 9:56 PM EDT reply actions
And who else called it?
I want my props too!
I’m just kdding of course.
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 30, 2010 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Very balanced, unbiased article on how Abraham-Dirrell went down...
DQ ending…damn boxing just can’t seem to get out of its own way!
No one but Abraham to blame for that.
When Dirrell is on his game,i think he has the ability to beat anyone.
I feel bad for him that he had to take that cheapshot but at least he’s in the running now and the Super6 just got a lot more interesting.
I said on another website before this tourney began that i would not be suprised if the two Andre’s ended up suprising a few people by getting to the final,though i did have Abraham and Kessler as favourites,like most did .
Dirrell was about a 14-1 rank outsider over here in the UK at the start of the tourney.
Hindsight tells me that might have been great odds! :)
Yes, but more difinitive in that there was absolutley no question whatsoever that Montel was gone—he went out in slow motion.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Mar 29, 2010 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions
If Ward were to meet Abraham,i see him outboxing him handily and i don’t see Arthur catching up with Ward late on.
Being English i hate to say it but i think the three Euro fighters are all pretty one dimensional with Froch being the most predictable,then Kessler,then Abraham.
They obviously have their qualities such as toughness,power and in Froch’s case especially,a good chin but all three are always gonna have trouble with slick boxers like Dirrell and Ward who also happen to be awkward.
I see the final four in this tourney being Ward,Froch,Dirrell and either Abraham or Kessler(depending who wins the Froch v Kessler fight).
I would pick Froch to beat Abraham at this stage(especially with home advantage).
thoughtful post. I mostly agree
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
A Brawler can't beat a Boxer
As stated in previous post . A brawler can’t beat a boxer. This is was I’ve been saying for awhile with these types fighters when the come to the states that they will be exposed.
If no one is going to stand in front of them and exchange punches, how can they win a fight when the first punch is the jab. Everything starts with the jab and that’s what you saw in Abraham’s face all night with the proof to match. For some reason they train for more power shots instead of style and the basics such as foot work, throwing a combination, and I can’t say this enough.. The Jab. That bar style of fighting where you just trade shots until someone falls only works over there, remember Ricky Hatton and just recent with the Devon Alexander win. That power is good when you add the basic mechanics of boxing to it but just being a power puncher will only take you but so far if the opponent is dumb enough to stand there. In closing, the next fight Abraham has is against Frocht. This will probably be the turning point in Abraham’s career because Frocht is going to knock him out.
If you always thought what you thought, then you wouldn't think what you knew.
Yeah,some of these guys are fighters/brawlers.They are obviously tough men but don’t seem to know or don’t want to utilise the basics of boxing,which as Haans stated,all starts off with the jab.
Kessler has good fundamentals but no footwork or ability to change style.
Black American fighters in general are naturally slick but also seem to have been taught better about hit and not get hit and setting things up.
A fighter/brawler can be easily outboxed and even KO’d,usually through accumulation of punches,as Ward and Dirrell have showed,and these two are the most inexperienced out of the six.
That says something about the ability and potential they have.
by Matt Mosley on Mar 29, 2010 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't like speaking in such generalities
There are so many exceptions to that rule that it’s not even really a rule. Plus, is Abraham even really a brawler?
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Absolutely
How many jabs did he throw? How about the combination, any? Of course you don’t want to generalize but the facts are just. Like I mentioned at the end of my post there has to be a balance. You can’t walk around the ring with your guards up waiting for the guy to stop in front of you in order for you to hit him. That works over there and that is how some of those fighter have those types of records like 40-0, 36-0, etc. That bar style fighting or like the movie with Clint East Wood, EVERY WHICH WAY BUT LOOSE. That’s taking it back , I know. But when they come to the states and are exposed like that the question should be," Who the Hell were they fighting"?
If you always thought what you thought, then you wouldn't think what you knew.
by Haans Bishop on Mar 29, 2010 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
How about the combination, any?
Brawlers don’t throw combinations? Anyway he is a defensively minded fighter who puts great emphasis on using his high guard and has good punching power. He sometimes relies on his power too much but not to an extent that he can really be considered a brawler.
Also it’s lose, not loose. Just saying :)
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 30, 2010 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
History is rife with examples of the Brawler beating the Boxer, but when all else is equal I will put money on the Boxer. Unless he has a china chin.
"Boxing is the only sport you can get your brain shook, your money took and your name in the undertaker book"
-- Joe Frazier
Good Points
I agree with most of them. Brawlers have a much more difficult times against boxers. Pavlik I think is an above average boxer, but 90% brawler and look what happened when he faced BHop.
I also agree with Abraham. He got exposed and I dont see how he beat a guy like Froch. Froch may leave himself a little more open than Dirrell did, but it’s because he has a stronger chin and is just a “crazier” type fighter. I think Froch actually enjoys being hit in the face. I can’t wait for this won, but with last Saturday’s result, I see Froch and Ward in the Super Six final.
I have a recap on my Examiner site: http://www.examiner.com/x-33584-Cleveland-Boxing-Examiner
Cleveland Boxing Examiner
by Cleveland Boxing Examiner on Mar 29, 2010 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd say Pavlik is a boxer-puncher
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Me too
He doesn’t wind up or loop punches, and catches and slips like a boxer-puncher. Just because your combinations and footwork is very basic (and in Kelly’s case, it is, because that’s all his trainer knew), doesn’t mean you are a brawler.
That said, he obviously relies more on his punching power than anything else.
"Boxing is the only sport you can get your brain shook, your money took and your name in the undertaker book"
-- Joe Frazier
I like the way he can cut the ring off despite
His basic level footwork, it shows some good rign IQ in my opinion. I wonder if he could have acomplished more with a better trainer. Not to say that he isn’t an accompished fighter as it is, and, of course, there is still plenty of time.
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 30, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not saying they are always the most effective but do tend to epitomise what the sweet science is all about.
I do think race is a factor and it should not be a touchy subject.
Hispanic fighters are often have the best chins and are the best bodypunchers but all fighters bring their own qualities to the table.
I think it’d be interesting to run a poll and see how many people think Dirrell was faking it. My gut reaction was that he was. Regardless, the real story is still that he fought a solid fight and exposed AA’s game big time. The interesting thing for me about the tournament so far is that I find it hard to root for any one fighter, and maybe that’s a good thing.
I may do that.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Well put
I wouldn’t be suprised if Pac turned out to be the incredible hulk in a very good disguise. - Sigidy
by Drunken cutman on Mar 30, 2010 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think he was faking, but
does anyone else think he may have been hurting already when he slipped, making the illegal punch (which he, of course, wasn’t ready for) that much more devastating? In any event, this is why championship fights should be 15 rounds. In the old days, I’m sure Abraham would have closed the deal (if he hadn’t done something to disqualify himself).
by geraldmcgrew on Mar 29, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Who is the favorite now?
Now that we have seen Froch-Dirrell, Dirrell-Abraham, Kessler-Ward who would you pick to win the entire Super Six? Froch-Kessler will tells us a lot, but as of right now I would have to say Froch and Ward will make the finals. I think Froch now beats Abraham. WHat do you think.
Read me daily on Examiner.com here:http://www.examiner.com/x-33584-Cleveland-Boxing-Examiner
Cleveland Boxing Examiner
by Cleveland Boxing Examiner on Mar 29, 2010 12:28 PM EDT reply actions
Ward cruises.
Dirrell has the best chance of beating him, but I believe Ward will display better poise and ring generalship, along with comparable speed.
I disagree with you and Brick—I see Abraham KOing Froch.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
http://www.examiner.com/x-33584-Cleveland-Boxing-Examiner
Cleveland Boxing Examiner
by Cleveland Boxing Examiner on Mar 29, 2010 12:29 PM EDT reply actions
Ward,Froch and Dirrell are my picks with possibly a Ward v Dirrell final.
As we have seen though,things can change and i think this tournament format will be successful and hopefully used again at a different weight.
by Matt Mosley on Mar 29, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Lighten up on the links, please.
I say this with respect, because I know you have been around BLH for a while. I don’t think anyone minds when you link to your column once in a while, but multiple links per post in many, many posts is getting a bit much. Most BLH readers read through the whole thread and see your first link to your column. Personally, I usually read them. But too much of this comes off a bit spammy, ok?
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
A time for reflection in this tournament
It’s actually a good time in this tournament more than ever. Every fighter in this tournament has been pushed out of their comfort level in some way shape or fashion. Every fighter is forced in some way to reevaluate there training regiment and their trainer. This tournament forced them to see the fork in the road on every level of this game. For Abraham, everything in the world that could have gone wrong that night, did. First time being dropped and his face looking like he was fighting two people. With that being said it will be interesting to see how he recovers and is he able to change. I’m still undecided as to who will win this tournament as of now because the only one who has a slight advantage is Green. He is coming in to a tournament with the blueprints being drawn right in front of him as to how to handle each fighter. What he and his trainer do with that information will be interesting in it’s self. After he fights, things will make themselves a little clearer.
If you always thought what you thought, then you wouldn't think what you knew.
I’m still undecided as to who will win this tournament as of now because the only one who has a slight advantage is Green. He is coming in to a tournament with the blueprints being drawn right in front of him as to how to handle each fighter.
Well except Andre Ward, who’s never come close to losing as a pro, and who he has to fight first.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 29, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Super Six
1st- I still have Ward as the favorite based off his dominate performance over MK.
2nd- Arthur hit late and on purpose because he was getting whoop’d!
3rd- I think the 1st person to get 2 wins is going to be a head of the game, and looks like that will be Ward if he can hold up against Green who I think is the least talented and has fought against the worst comp in the Super Six.
4th- I had a bunch of people over and we watched the fight, great fight everyone was enjoying the fight. Until the foul. Then came the highlight of the night. I know this is wrong but now that we know he is all right I guess it is okay now. The Dirrell interview was the funniest thing I have ever seen in my life. " I GOT DROP’D MAN"…..‘HEY WHICH ONE OF YA’LL IS THE SPEAKER?’ wow glad he is okay.
By the way SC...
I think Heat-Mavericks is a fine example. I will curse those refs for the rest of my Mavs-fan life, but once the pattern had been set, the Mavs should have adjusted and found a way to win anyway. Thanks for the miserable reminder.
I'm not even a Mavs fan
And I don’t care about the Heat, really. But few things I’ve witnessed in sports made me really question whether or not I should keep caring about a sport/league/whatever. That one was right up there. That was obscene.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 29, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
It would have helped if Dirk didn’t play like a bitch as well…
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
please
Anyone who buys the referees being even remotely square in the Heat-Mavs series is blind.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 30, 2010 12:35 AM EDT up reply actions
This is why we have to enjoy sports for more the action/entertainment more than the results. Sadly, this makes it too much like pro wrestling for comfort.
by geraldmcgrew on Mar 30, 2010 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Semantics
again maybe, but I wouldn’t call Abraham a brawler.
I don’t know what I’d call him, but he likes to force his opponent to punch so he can counter.
He spends as much time backed into the ropes as he does backing people into the ropes.
When he opens up, he becomes sloppy, much as in the picture one might have of a brawler.
He not a counter puncher either. He’s a brawler.
If you always thought what you thought, then you wouldn't think what you knew.
by Haans Bishop on Mar 30, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t call him a brawler either. He’s Josh Clottey with a lot more power. He’s a defensive specialist that can punch like hell.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Mar 30, 2010 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bad Left Hook
Related FanShots on Bad Left Hook
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
