How MMA is Helping Boxing
Disclaimer: The following topic is more sensitive than Floyd Mayweather himself. It also comes with a request...those of you (far fewer than some want to acknowledge) with malice in your heart please stay out!
For the last 10 years or so, Major League Baseball sponsors clinics and leagues throughout inner cities to try to boost the number of African Americans that make it to the big leagues. This is a grasp at diversity due to the minuscule number of African Americans in the Majors. But of course nobody expects an organization to sponsor suburban clinics for white athletes in boxing. Therefore white American kids have had about the same access to boxing as a Don King fighter has had to his dividends.
Just a few weeks ago HBO ran a piece about an up-and-coming fighter from a poor, violent and crumbling neighborhood. The kind of neighborhoods where boxing gyms still exist. The young man has stood tall outside the ring, ignoring the temptations from those too timid to tussle inside. The young man should be commended. It is not an easy task and takes great courage. It was a nice story and well wishes to the young fighter, but at the risk of sounding too callous...I've heard it many times before.
Wouldn't the better, more interesting story be the middle class kid with the solid grades forgoing a chance at college for a chance a championship? Where are these American kids, white or black? How come these kids don't make it all the way to your TV?
The theory of why there are so few African American professional baseball players, is their lack of access to the sport. To offset this perception, clinics and leagues are brought to the inner cities (of course American suburbs are jam packed with Americans of every race including a large black middle class) and baseball is being viewed as making an effort to give African Americans more access.
For many years preceding and during the 10 years baseball has been specifically reaching out to black Americans, it has been at least as difficult for American whites trying to find a boxing gym than for American blacks trying to find a baseball league.
And as stated, there is no way the WBO is going to start setting up gyms in middle class neighborhoods. Blacks don't make the majors because of their lack of access. Whites have very little access to boxing, so whites aren't going to win belts. So, the likelihood fans would ever see a reemergence of whites in boxing has been as likely as seeing the reemergence of championship fights Saturday afternoon on ABC.
What there was in middle class areas were Karate or Tae Kwon Do schools as prevalent as pizza parlors. Almost every little middle class kid has a Karate outfit hanging next to his soccer uniform in the back of his closet. They tried out their only access to a combat sport, and most petered out and went on to other things.
But thanks to the the UFC and Pride, in the last 5 years MMA gyms have been sprouting up in middle class areas as frequently as Subway sandwich shops. These gyms offer all the staples of MMA, BJJ, boxing, kickboxing. Patrons can take classes in one or all. A house wife can do the kickboxing Monday thru Friday while her son trains in BJJ. A father and son can take boxing classes together. It is a chance for a middleclasser to get bit by the boxing bug whereas before he had better odds of getting bit by a bed bug.
In just one section of north east Atlanta there are 3 MMA gyms within 20 minutes of each other. Each gym is consistently packed. Each gym's clientele is as diverse as a pizzeria customers in the same area, but doesn't smell nearly as good.
Now for a little math...there has been a solid 5 years of these gyms being super popular, now add another 5 years of thousands of 10 or 12 year-olds entering the gym wanting to be like Chuck Lidell, but falling in love with the ring and gloves, and it becomes the emergence of the middle class in boxing. Middle class whites, blacks, Asians and all. The year is 2015. How is that for a long term prediction?
How important is this to boxing? Well, Larry Bird took some heat a few years back when he said the NBA needed more great white players. He said white fans want to see some white players. It would be good for the league. That is not racist. That is common sense.
It is the same reason Walmart sells baby dolls with blond hair or dark hair or white skin or dark skin or different shaped eyes. People instinctively relate to those more like themselves. It does not mean we can't and don't appreciate those different from us or enjoy the differences between us. But it is the same reason local fighters get billed at local venues and their fans come out in droves. He's from New Jersey too! He's just like us!
The vast majority of boxing's white blockbusters are European. These Europeans are great, and along with other fighters from outside the US make boxing global. But for boxing to leap back into the mainstream in the US, it needs more white American boxers.
The irony is, there will be plenty in the next half dozen years beginning at the latest 2015. And it is going to come from a place which many pit as boxing's biggest competition. A sport that many are saying will kill off boxing. But really it's going to give boxing the lift it needs to create a more diverse group of boxers and bring in more fans. Thank you MMA.
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You have raised an interesting issue here, which does require a level of thinking to come back with a response.
I am from England so it is difficult for me to judge some of the happenings you talk about. Over here, I would say boxing is more popular within working class areas. Where I am from near Manchester, boxing gyms are a place kids go to try and put their toughness into practice; you see some leave and some stay and manage to get on the white collar circuit whether they are Asian, Black or White. However, I think you must think of why it seems Afro-American reach the top in boxing. Boxing gyms do tend to be in working class areas, giving the kids who are around street violence a chance to discipline themselves through the sport.
It is such an interesting topic which does need exploring. I will put forward a British example which I can hopefully adapt to boxing. Over here, Rugby Union is a sport which has always been played by the elites, which is why Rugby League was formed, something for the working men to play on sunday, the only day they had off from their 6 day weeks in the mills. Still now, rugby union stars are those who are upper middle class, private school boys who get scouted through schooling and university level, instantly dismissing working class boys. I have never played rugby in my life. Here in England, some areas thrive from football (soccer) like my town Burnley, Lancashire and I suppose you could say ‘laugh’ at rugby for being a stuck-up pointless game. Rugby towns do the same to us about football. I am sure the same kind of thing happens in the States. This is why there is not a large number of black players, something which is mind baffling because the speed and strength advantage black genetics hold should place them in the sport, just as they dominate sprinting.
Now, in boxings case do you see it as acceptable for me to argue middle class kids cannot relate to the sport due to not having parents who are interested or knowing people who boxed, whereas a black working class kid could, and from this create some sort of aspiration…Maybe a white kid would look to other sports; like you mentioned MMA which is opening opportunities for them. Bravo. Obviously, I have done some major stereotyping here but if I was to get specific this could go on…but in short, I really do put it down to the history of the sport and its integration into society.
I think that sports will forever remain the way they are. Blacks will dominate boxing in America due to the sporting history, the same way white upper/middles class will dominate Rugby Union in Britain and the lower classes continue to play Rugby League being a rougher, tougher version of Union (hearing one of the each trying to defend its sport as being more manly than the other is hilarious, I assure you. Personally, what is more manly than two men battling it out? Please see my post The Beauty of It All to clarify this!).
Peace
Shnizz x
"I don't want to spend my whole life dreaming" - Mesrine
solid points, I see your perspective.
I certainly agree with many of the points you make and I see how it relates to your rugby and your football and the working class vs the elite.
It is funny, I did read your post on the beauty of it all, and I thought of it while I was writing my post because you so powerfully described the attraction of boxing, and I believe when kids get a chance to be exposed to boxing, or BJJ, or wrestling, or kickboxing or whatever, the beauty of boxing is going to pull them in. Boxing will gain more popularity on its on merits, whereas up untill now, most are not exposed to boxing, so they don’t get a chance to chose it.
In the US, I don’t believe there is any real difference between the middle class or lower income as far as attitudes and toughness because so many of us middle classer are only one generation away from the coal mines or steel mills or factories. And even in our middle class suburbs there is plenty of bad to go around and need things to keep our children’s interest.
From my own personal experience
I started off as an MMA fan and thought boxing was a boring, dead sport. But as I got more into MMA, starting going to an LA Boxing gym to work out and learn a little for myself, I grew to absolutely LOVE boxing.
They are two different sports that compliment each other well. The only thing that I really like better about MMA over boxing is that in MMA you can lose two or three fights and be okay. If you lose two or three fights in boxing people say you need to retire.
Vote Quimby
Great article John.
And I agree with mason_beer.
MMA guys that have been wrestlers or BJJ practioners all their lives love to demonstrate new striking skills learnt through elite boxing training and top level sparring. If you want to be a well rounded Mixed Martial Artist you have to have solid stand up and that’s where the sweet science comes in. The cross-training gives boxing greater exposure and an educated MMA crowd still loves a highlight reel KO. This must draw alot of MMA fans to boxing. So yeah I can see MMA helping boxing.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
I don't think it's as complicated as all that
Boxing needs great heavyweights, period. America likes to see the big boys. The decline of talent in the heavyweight division has lead to the decline in boxing. Sure I’d like to see a good white fighter come up through the ranks. It would be intriguing to say the least, but more than anything, boxing needs a heavy Mayweather or some more Tyson’s, Holyfield’s and Bowe’s.
Every fighter has a game plan until he get's punched in the mouth.
-Mike
Boxing needs great heavyweights, period. America likes to see the big boys.
I think “needs” is strong. Boxing is doing OK without them. But I cannot argue the second point, because it’s just a plain fact. Klitschko-Arreola was the No. 1 rated HBO fight last year for a reason, and sure it got some help from the Floyd-JMM replay the same night, but that wasn’t it (I don’t believe).
I also actually wonder if perhaps the heavyweight thing will, pardon my phrasing, die out with the older fans. When fans 35 and younger or so (I’m 28, so I went up a little from myself) become the older folks in the audience, will it just be plain accepted that the heavyweights aren’t where it’s at? People a little older than me had Tyson (I had Tyson’s downfall), but there was also Duran, Leonard, Hearns, Hagler, etc. playing a huge role in boxing’s money landscape changing. After that we had Oscar, Jones, Tito, etc. in the 90s, and this past decade was Oscar, Floyd, Manny, and then guys like Ricky Hatton, too.
The heavyweight division might just sort of…fade away. I’d love to see some great heavyweights again, don’t get me wrong, and I’d jump for joy if that happened, but assuming it doesn’t really happen (and I assume it won’t really happen), will it matter down the line? Will the thinking change?
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
The big boys are still popular in Europe. The Klitschkos are about as popular in Germany as Michael Jordan was here, and Germany is the economic muscle of Europe. And Haye is a big star in England for defeating Monte Barrett.
American heavyweights aren’t much better now than they were in the early 80’s, but back then they had a fellow American to show them who was boss in Holmes. Just like all of Boxing, heavyweight boxing has swings in popularity.
I’ve given a little thought to the Klitshcko problem (great fighters standing in an empty house), and there doesn’t appear to be an immediate way to solve it. I don’t even think American fans necessarily hate them because they are white or have boring styles, but because they just aren’t weird enough for American fans to like. Americans love weirdos. That was part of Larry Holmes problem too. He was a great and dominant champ, but personally he was about as exciting and mysterious as a slice of toast. Vitali still has a few American fans, but that’s only because he makes some effort to do so. Wlad, on the other hand, does not care one bit, even changing the spelling of his name to make it more German. I don’t really see anyone in the top fifteen right now who can win more than two or three rounds against Wlad, but in Europe I get the sense that this is seen only as a tribute Wlad’s greatness and nothing to do with a weak field of contenders.
The truth is somewhere in the middle, but whatever. Americans will rally around a really weird big guy when he comes down the pike. Don’t see him right now. HBO wanted it to be Arreola, but being incredibly lazy about your training and having a few tattoos isn’t going to cut it. Not weird enough.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
And before some wise guy says “Who is weirder then Nick Valuev?” looking weird is not enough. Actually when Valuev talks he seems like a pretty normal and dull guy. And also, as SC has mentioned before, what Valuev does really isn’t “boxing.” Not sure what it is either. You have to be weird, speak English, punch hard and actually be a boxer. George Foreman 2.0 had these qualities, and Kid Dynamite had them in spades. HBO thought Cannon Briggs might have some of these qualities (asthma, octopus hair) and tried to turn him into a star. But it was still a big dip from a 45-year old wood-choppin’ grill salesman and the parade of weirdness that was Tyson.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Do we think that HW is actually the weakest division?
I must confess that I don’t know a lot about the lower divisions but I have heard that some of them are fairly shoddy.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Apr 4, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t know if if necessarily the weakest, but there is probably the biggest disparity in talent between the top of the division and the contenders than any other division.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Fair shout
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Apr 4, 2010 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I am a diehard MMA fan
But, I live where boxing is king, so everything works kinda differently, even the gyms that offer everything (Like LA Boxing) are way more focused on boxing than anything else even though boxing gyms are everywhere. The situation here is the other way around, boxing is helping MMA immensely.
I agree about the need for more white boxers, kids need to see people that are similar to them to not only aspire to be great like them but to also feel proud of who they are. In Latin America is more about representing your country, but since the US is such a mixed nation, there is a need for cultural groups to be represented.
In Latin America is more about representing your country, but since the US is such a mixed nation, there is a need for cultural groups to be represented.
interesting thought on two levels. the need for cultural representation and the lack of national pride as a driving force in success.

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