Scoping the Welterweights: Boxing's Money Division in 2010
While you can form an argument based on depth that 147 pounds is not boxing's best or most outright competitive division (168 and 140 have arguments), there's no doubt that the glamor, glitz and glory right now lies in the welterweight division.
It's because the top of the division is so spectacular. Pound-for-pound king cases Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather Jr. reside here, and then you also have "Sugar" Shane Mosley, Miguel Cotto, Andre Berto and Joshua Clottey, forming a top six that is hard to match. After that, there's a huge drop in quality, though you could argue Luis Collazo belongs right alongside Joshua Clottey, I suppose.
The division will probably produce at least three of the year's biggest fights, maybe four. With Andre Berto set to battle Carlos Quintana tonight on HBO, everything's about to start clearing up. Where is this division headed for the rest of 2010? There are a lot of possibilities, so let's see if we can't chart the course(s) and see what's what.
If Mayweather beats Mosley and signs a fight with Manny Pacquiao...
Everything is great. The biggest fight in boxing would be on tap, probably the single most important fight in boxing in the last 30 years, at least since Leonard-Hearns I, the last time the two best fighters in the sport squared off. No matter how you slice it, Mayweather beating Mosley could be the biggest and most credited win of Floyd Jr.'s career, meaning he'd probably be white hot, while Pacquiao stayed even with a dominant win over Joshua Clottey on March 13. That might even their momentum a little bit, and with all the back-and-forth in the press that's gone on between Floyd and Manny already, you have a fight that I do believe would shatter the Floyd-Oscar PPV record.
But I don't think this will happen. I'm skeptical that they can ever come to terms.
If Mosley beats Mayweather...
There are a lot of things that could happen here. Mosley beating Mayweather most likely sets up a rematch. That is, if Floyd wants it. I'm not inside the man's head and I'm not pretending I am. But we have never seen Floyd Mayweather handle a loss. He's never suffered a loss. Bob Arum says a lot of things, but his armchair psychology telling him that Mayweather wouldn't be able to handle a loss in the ring isn't just one man's view. A lot of people who cover the sport and are inside the sport seriously doubt if Floyd's psyche could deal with a loss. This is a guy who's already retired three times -- he retired after beating Carlos Baldomir, retired after beating Oscar de la Hoya, retired after beating Ricky Hatton and bailing on a rematch with Oscar.
So were Mayweather to lose to Mosley, I think there's a decent chance he disappears again, at least for a while. But since that is pure speculation and something that hinges on Mayweather's personality more than anything else, let's just say that Floyd would exercise his rematch clause for late in the year. That's the most likely thing.
That would then leave Manny Pacquiao's dance card open. If Andre Berto beats Carlos Quintana, Berto is a viable opponent. He'd be 26-0, he's young, he's undefeated, he has the green belt. But that probably wouldn't happen. Top Rank would want to keep the money in-house.
Top Rank would probably then set up Pacquiao against Antonio Margarito at Cowboys Stadium, assuming Margarito wins his comeback fight in May. And there's another wrinkle that like it or not, we cannot ignore: Antonio Margarito is coming back to the sport, and if things play out as I fear they will, we'll see Pacquiao-Margarito later this year. I don't want it any more than a lot of people do, but Top Rank would be dumb to not do it if a Pacquiao-Mayweather fight wasn't the other option. They'd probably put 60,000 or so into the stadium in Arlington with that fight. It would be blockbuster money.
Now, let's go back briefly and say that Mosley beats Mayweather, and Floyd retires again. Mosley-Pacquiao then comes into play, too. And with Mosley having beaten Floyd, that would be a humongous PPV fight between a Mosley who would be at the highest point of his career and Pacquiao. It would also be a serious can't-miss fight. There's not a chance in hell that Mosley-Pacquiao isn't a good fight. Not a chance.
If Mayweather beats Mosley, but DOESN'T fight Pacquiao...
Again a decent chance that Floyd re-retires. Also heightens the probability of Pacquiao-Margarito even more. If Mayweather decided to keep fighting, I'd expect him to fight Andre Berto, tagging the fight as a mission to reclaim "his" WBC belt. Again, assuming that Berto beats Quintana tonight.
What other options would Mayweather have here? He fought once at 154, against Oscar de la Hoya, and while he won the fight I thought it was obvious that the weight was a bad place for him. He's not a big puncher, but at 147 he still has some pop. Against a 154-pound guy, I don't see him making much by way of dentage. Plus, there's just nobody at 154. Who's he going to fight, Paul Williams? Alfredo Angulo?
There would be Manny (which we're ruling out here), Berto, or ... nothing. You can count out Top Rank fighters Cotto, Clottey and Margarito, because Arum won't deal with Floyd. Plus, two of them would be Manny's sloppy seconds anyway, and at this point Mayweather-Cotto and Mayweather-Margarito have lost the luster they once had on paper.
The other option, realistically, would be one of the top 140-pound fighters coming up to fight Floyd. Timothy Bradley has a stern test on June 19 against Marcos Maidana, but I know if he wins he'd fight Mayweather in a heartbeat. Timothy Bradley isn't just talk. This guy is proving every time out that he wants to fight top guys. Devon Alexander could get a call he couldn't refuse (Don King negotiating with the Mayweather people would be "24/7"-worthy itself), and then there's the Khan-Malignaggi winner. I know Freddie Roach has very high hopes for Khan, but I don't think there's any way he puts Amir in with Floyd at the tender age of 23. That would run the risk of taking Amir Khan's confidence out back and pulling an Old Yeller on the kid's ego. There's just too good of a chance that Mayweather completely embarrasses Khan.
For the record, I know Paul Williams says he can make 147 pounds still. He's fighting Kermit Cintron on May 8 at 154. But while I think Mosley-Williams is possible, I do not see a chance that Mayweather or Manny mess with Tall Paul. It's not that they couldn't beat him, it's just that he's a huge risk with relatively minimal reward. Paul Williams is still a hardcore fan favorite more than he is someone who can sell a fight. I don't think it would be hard to market the big guy as a genuine threat and make him seem very menacing, but he should probably be counted out as a possible opponent for anyone.
There's a ton riding on the outcome of Mosley-Mayweather, obviously, and Andre Berto goes into tonight with a shot at putting himself into a mega money fight later this year. I think, sadly, we're all but assured of Pacquiao-Margarito, unless Margarito loses his return fight, which is not out of the question.
The problem with a top-heavy division like this when it comes to making fights is that the viable options become so limited. The tease of the Mayweather-Pacquiao mega-fight also has a hand in making almost anything else those two do this year seem like some sort of consolation prize, even the Mosley-Mayweather fight, which should be something we revel in because it's been so desired for so long.
But it's Mayweather-Pacquiao. At the end of the day, the biggest fight in boxing remains Mayweather-Pacquiao, and nothing else is really an acceptable "replacement." But Floyd and Manny will continue to sell fights for as long as they want to, in part because of that outside shot, that glimmer in the boxing fan's eye that next time, they'll get it on.
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SC
I think you are either a cynic or you know how boxing works extremely well. :)
I’ll go mostly withg the latter as boxing is a cynical game and often the fights that should happen do not.Sad but true.
One thing i do disagree with you on though is when you say you think Mayweather might well retire if he loses to Mosley.
I think Floyd’s ego is way too big to walk away after a loss,especially if it was a close one.
I think he is more likely to walk away if he wins against ‘Sugar’ or maybe takes the Berto fight (if Berto wins),as you have already stated.
I too am very sceptical that May v Pac ever happens.
No way does ‘Money’ walk away after a loss in my mind but then like you say,maybe he can’t handle a loss.
Sorry about all the italics but i think they were necessary. :)
Pac-Cheato is a fucking abomination
You know, as boxing fans, we often put up with a lot of garbage, and often inexplicably seek it out ourselves (see last week’s Jones-Hopkins thread). But at some point, enough is enough. You’re going to tell me I’m supposed to support a fight between a guy who was basically willing to kill Shane Mosley in the ring with illegal wraps, and the P4P #1 boxer in the world, all while one of best fights of the last 30 years is out there and not being made because of the idiocy of the promoters and the egos of the fighters? No goddamned way. I will not order this fight, i will not watch it, and I won’t even participate in comment thread on fight night. Guys, we have to take a stand at some point, and this feels like it.
by The Boxer Rebellion on Apr 10, 2010 11:39 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
+1
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Apr 10, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
and let's all hope
Margarito loses his comeback fight as some have speculated is possible.At least this disaster can be averted that way.
by The Boxer Rebellion on Apr 10, 2010 11:41 AM EDT reply actions
Pac v Marg.
Yes,i agree.Hopefully it never happens but if it does i would like to think the fans will show their disgust by not buying it.
I know i will.
I would buy
I would buy Margo-shithead and Pacquiao, just to hopefully see Pacquiao beat the hell out of him. A beat down from Pacquiao is exactly what he deserves.
Who knows what matchups will shake out at welterweight. I know it sounds crazy, but maybe Berto has a chance to lockdown a Pacquiao fight before May 8. I dont think Pac would do that though, after the Clottey situation. He needs May or Mosley. I think after Berto disposes of Quintana tonight, his next opponent could be Josh Clottey. With Cotto now at 154, there really isn’t anyone left for Berto to fight. If Mosely loses to Mayweather, he may be gone from boxing. If Mayweather loses, he is not fighting Berto. He just wouldn’t. HBO needs to start putting Kell Brook on and getting him some better name recogonition.
http://www.examiner.com/x-33584-Cleveland-Boxing-Examiner
http://www.examiner.com/x-33584-Cleveland-Boxing-Examiner
by Cleveland Boxing Examiner on Apr 10, 2010 2:27 PM EDT reply actions
A beat down from Pacquiao is exactly what he deserves.
A beatdown which at most lasts 36 minutes, and a fat paycheque which will last him a life time. I personally don’t think he deserves such a privelage.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Apr 10, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Gag
Top Rank would probably then set up Pacquiao against Antonio Margarito at Cowboys Stadium…
Dammit SC, I really don’t like the taste of my own vomit…..
I'm likely missing soemthing,
but I see no reason at all that Manny would fight Margo.
Unless he screws up, I think Manny is not long for the sport.
And the fights left will be mega-fights, IMO. Mayweather or Mosley.
Top Rank wants Pacquiao-Margarito. If they can get Mayweather-Pacquiao signed, obviously they do it, but I don’t think they’ll get it done. But here’s the order of events that would have to take place for Pacquiao-Mosley to happen:
1. Mosley beats Mayweather
2. Mayweather doesn’t exercise the contractual rematch clause that he has (this is possible, but unlikely)
3. Mosley and Pacquiao sign to fight
So considering how much I do not believe that Pacquiao-Mayweather is going to happen (at least this year), the fact that Mosley would have to beat Mayweather (which would be a big upset), and then Mayweather would have to allow Mosley-Pacquiao to happen next, Pacquiao-Mosley is very unlikely compared to Pacquiao-Margarito.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Apr 10, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Nice write up
Don’t you think that Pac might defend his Champ status at 140 possibly? If Bradley has a definitive win against Maidiana, which will definintely be an action fight, wouldn’t a showdown with Pac-man be a possible move? It would be a huge fight in California, they would both be huge draws. I would much rather see that than Pacman v Margacheato.
well Roach Has said that Pacquiao will be staying at 147 so it is unlikely
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Apr 10, 2010 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Don’t you think that Pac might defend his Champ status at 140 possibly?
Nope.
[Pacquiao-Bradley] would be a huge fight in California, they would both be huge draws.
“Huge” is vastly overstating Bradley’s drawing power in California, even with a win over Maidana, who has had all of two televised fights in the United States. Bradley does decent in a small venue, but he’s not a real draw yet. He wouldn’t be any better of a B-side than Joshua Clottey was, in terms of selling the fight.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Apr 10, 2010 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Good points
I like Tim Bradley and would rather see that fight. I am not sure you can say Margarito is a decent draw anymore, and would definitely be a more dangerous opponent due to size, for Pacquiao. But I understand the promoter angle you have put forth, Arum wanting to rep both sides.
Margarito does have the Mexican audience, at least in theory. I think they’ll get a sense of where he’s at when he fights in May. How tickets moved, how the Latin Fury sales do (they’re never great, but they have expectations and all that). I still think Arum advertised Margarito for the Pac-Clottey show to sell tickets in Texas. They were saying he was on that show before he had a license.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Apr 10, 2010 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Good writeup SC. This is pretty much the situation. However, you have forgotten one other “far-fetched” outcome:
Mayweather beats Mosley and retires…
I know, I know that’s crazy talk.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
it's in there
If Mayweather beats Mosley, but DOESN’T fight Pacquiao…
Again a decent chance that Floyd re-retires.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Apr 10, 2010 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah okay, I'm a dummy
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Sc I Agree
If Mayweather Wins and the Fight Between MP and FM Doesnt Happen Again, the Pac Vs Margarito in Cowboys Stadium wether we Like it or Not. It will Make Money and Sell PPV"s. That Fight Won’t Be Easy For Pac Like Alot of Fans Think.
Will Margs get wrapped and gloved inside the ring?
Like Dempsey did versus Willard?
Here’s hoping Garcia throws this possibility in the trash before Arum gets the chance to exploit it.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic

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