Hagler-Hearns: Unmitigated Savagery
by Bad Left Hook on Apr 15, 2010 7:28 PM EDT
in Boxing History
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25 years ago today, "Marvelous" Marvin Hagler and Thomas "Hitman" Hearns waged an unbelievable war that to this day is considered by many to be the greatest fight they have ever seen. Ted "The Bull" Sares remembers this impossible-to-duplicate battle.
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This unforgettable classic was for the WBC, WBA, and IBF World Middleweight Titles and it was fittingly held at Caesars Palace in Las Vegas on April 15, 1985-some 25 years ago. It was also the 1985 Ring Magazine fight of the year.
Marvelous Marvin Hagler (60-2-2) was coming off an easy 3 round knockout of Mustafa Hamsho while Hearns (40-1) was coming off an equally easy 3 round demolition of Fred "The Pumper" Hutchings.
When the bell rang, both combatants came out fully torqued and ready to destroy one another. Hagler went to the body early, but was shook by a Hearns's right. He shook it off and just kept coming taking the best that Tommy could offer. They then began their unmitigated savagery exchanging bombs with few clinches. Neither gave an inch as elbows landed, low blows were thrown, and heads collided, but Hagler got the better of the roughhousing. At the bell, Hagler gave Hearns a long look that seemed to say "why are you still around?" The crowd was up and roaring at the bell and would never sit down again.
Round two was equally action-packed. However, Hagler began to assert himself rocking Tommy with long lefts and rights. He had initialed the stalk in this canto as Tommy began backing up. Hagler had gotten the necessary separation to land some punishing shots but then, with 30 seconds to go in the round, he and "The Hitman" engaged in pure hell. Each hammered the other with crunching and well-leveraged shots that would have taken out most other opponents. At the bell, it was Hearns who gave Hagler a funny look and this one reminded me of the one Jake LaMotta gave Sugar Ray Robinson after Sugar had brutalized him but failed to put him down in the 1951 St. Valentine Massacre fight. Tommy had that smile on his face that said "Hey Hagler, I'm still here." But was he?
By now, Hagler had incurred a hideous cut on his head that made him look even more menacing-as if that were possible---but it was a threatening cut that gave a sense of urgency to this modern version of the "Brockton Blockbuster."
The third round began with the crowd anticipating a stoppage that could come in more ways than one. Indeed, early into the round, referee Richard Steele had the doctor take a look, but the fight quickly continued. Hagler then began the stalk in full mode (and urgency) while Hearns resorted to boxing to keep Hagler at bay as he had done against Sugar Ray Leonard in their 1981 classic. Hagler began to rock Tommy and then he stunned him with a long right to the head. Tommy fell back and Hagler literally ran after him and landed as vicious a right as has ever been thrown in a boxing ring. As Marvelous Marvin stepped back, Hearns fell in a heap and looked as if he were out cold. Miraculously, he somehow summoned the will to get up before the 10-count but he was a rag doll and the fight was stopped at the 1:52 mark. Tommy had nothing for which to be ashamed; he had given his all, but the stalk, stun and close had been completed.
Ironically, the fight may have taken more out of Hagler than Hearns. Tommy would win his next five and go 21-3-1 in his remaining 25 outings to finish with a 65-5-1 mark. . Hagler would fight John "The Beast" Mugabi a year later in a grueling bout in which he finally stalked , stunned, and took out "The Beast" in the 11th round. Then, a year later. he would lose to Sugar Ray Leonard in a close and controversial 12 rounds of tactical action that would be his last fight. His final record was 62-3-2. He is an inductee of the International Boxing Hall of Fame and the World Boxing Hall of Fame-awards that Hearns will receive as soon as he is eligible.
As for their fight, it was one for the memory bank and one that hopefully will put in perspective what we witnessed this month (April 3, 2010) when two once proud and great middleweights gave us something somewhat less than three rounds of unmitigated savagery.
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An
all-time classic.
I will always wonder why Tommy didn’t try to get some room and box at the start. By the time he did, it was obviously too late. But he could box and Marvin had trouble with boxers.
Agreed. It’s a classic example of one guy applying the only tactic he was left with and applying it well, and the other guy throwing any semblance of strategy out the window. Hagler really had no choice but to close the gap between him and the Hitman which he did of course, right off the bat. Tommy was much faster, much taller, longer, and arguably had bigger one punch power than Marvin and was possibly the better boxer (though I think Marvin’s own boxing ability has been somewhat underrated over the years). Marvin’s only real physical advantage was his toughness. The fight offers a great lesson, I think. When faced with superior firepower AND superior skills, it perhaps behooves one to eschew the idea of “sweet science” and turn the contest into one about who has the bigger cojones. Best bet.
+1
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
God post, glado
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Right.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 15, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I always though Tommys boxing skills a bit overrated Don , he didnt have the legs and footwork that I reckon the real master boxers have .He was a great boxer as long as his jab was dominating the fight. He wasn’t as good at 160 as he was at 175 funnily enough . There are a lot of 160 pounders that are " beast" type swarmers with great physical strength that were tough enough to take Tommys punches and still keep coming ala Hagler, Barkley , Kinchen and even Roldan . They make Tommy have to throw more punches than he found comfortable . I also wonder how good Hearns is against southpaws. Being such a left jab orientated fighter with only average footwork I reckon Tommy might have been one of the fighters that much preferred facing an orthodox opponent . All that stuff aside Hagler Hearns is still the most explosive Super Fight in history in my opinion . Cheers Blokes.
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. " Hunter S Thompson.
Good points, JC40
“The Young Master” as Steward sometimes referred to Hearns was a “great” boxer only when his jab could define the ring, and he couldn’t do so as effectively above 147lb. On one hand, the worst thing that Tommy could have done strategy-wise would seem to be what he did do with Hagler; on the other hand, were his legs and chin ever going to carry him over the distance with someone dictating a higher punch output than he could handle? Even on his way up, Tommy was tiring (throwing back-hands) against Harold Weston. In the end, I’d think Tommy’s best chance was to move more and try to slice Marvin up or catch him huge lunging in. Marvin didn’t just have trouble with Leonard and suddenly-turned-boxer (and former lightweight moving far beyond his comfort zone) Duran when they gave him some movement; one Mike Colbert gave Marvin more than he bargained for, but he had the legs that Hearns lacked . I don’t know, and interesting puzzle all around. …
by Don From Prov on Apr 16, 2010 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep, that SHOULD have been his strategy.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
SC
a great fight to watch for the “Classic Re-Wind” segment would be Hagler v. Leonard.
I haven’t seen it in years, but when I did, Hagler won.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
i got hagler winning every single time ive watched it
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
.
by sonofapsycho on Apr 15, 2010 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
me too
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Apr 15, 2010 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m staying out of this.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 15, 2010 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
LMAO I HAD TO BITE
I had Leonard winning ……….
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. " Hunter S Thompson.
I've had it for Hagler every time I watched it.
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
Just the opoosite. I had it for Ray everytime. Hagler fought a stupd fight with no back-up plan. Ray fought a smart fight and with 30 seconds to go in each round, he would cut loose and steal many of them.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I judge rounds on the whole round, not just the last 30 seconds.
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
yea – isn’t the notion of ‘stealing a round’ dependent on someone getting duped by the 2:30 that the fighter lost? – Just because the judges got duped doesn’t mean he ACTUALLY won those rounds.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
Be careful here. The round could be even goiung into the last few seconds, and then the other fighter can do something that might be termed "stealing " the round. It does not, per se, mean that the other fighter lost the round to that point. In this fight, with 30 second to go, Dundee would yell out, “G0,” and Ray would open up. That’s being smart and MARVIN had no answer IMO.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Very noble, but whosaid anything about Ray not fighting well early in the rounds? The thing is, he had a strategy where he would open up at the end and give the judges soimething to remember. That’s called being smart and strategic, If he fought at an even pace earlier, this simply would win (steal may not be the right word) the round more convincingly.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Ray fought a smart fight and with 30 seconds to go in each round, he would cut loose and steal many of them.
….you did.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
Yep.... :)
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
You know as well as I do that Leonard threw next to nothing for about 80% of that fight.
A few flashy shows of handspeed and footwork do not a winning card make….
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
top 5 greatest fights of all time imo. i’ve seen the fight no less than 100 times.
i always get a kick out of tommy stumbling around on spaghetti legs, a big smile on his face and jheri curl waving in the wind and a second later laying flat on his back.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
.
LMAO Psycho
I vividly remember reading some old school tough guy saying after the fight that you never put money on the bloke with the fancy do . Hearns had a crewcut in his next fight . As funny as it seems I actually think Hearns was overconfident in that fight . After he destroyed Duran he really did think Marv was" shaking like a leaf on a tree" . Marvs " war" cap was another thing I remember about that fight . I think Marvin knew he had to make it a phone booth fight and he did it beautifully. I’ve been known to go off on one of my tangents and say that Marv was a bit overrated but his beard and his will were always AAA.
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. " Hunter S Thompson.
marvin overrated? no way.
tommy was probably over confident i agree with you there.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
.
by sonofapsycho on Apr 15, 2010 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
He had a few bad ones. Duran gave him trouble and he could not ice china chinned Marcu Geraldo. But all in all, he came to fight each and very time out.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 15, 2010 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Hagler over-rated?!!??!!?!?!
I’ll just assume you had a funny five minutes when you wrote that…. ;)
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
That smile was a strange one. Man, he had no idea where he was. That last right wiped any semblance of a smile clear off his face, He was in Mo Town Heaven.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 15, 2010 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions
i remember him smiling like that a few times when he was hurt. very odd and strange habit he had.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
.
by sonofapsycho on Apr 15, 2010 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, he did it against Leonard , too. I wonder of he did iy when the IRS called him.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 15, 2010 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
RE: Hagler/Hearns
I, too, know the fight by heart. Next to Corrales/Castillo, this was my all-time favorite fight. Wow! Thanks for the nice review, Ted. It was fun to relive an all-time great fight. By the way, I had Hearns to win. He had the better boxing skills. Unfortunally, he got lured into a big-time, all-out war.
Good Take, L.L.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 15, 2010 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Balls....
The commentator kept shouting “and Hagler is hurt”…
Every time I watch it again I think, “Does someone want to tell Hagler?”
There is no moment in that fight where I think Hagler is hurt.
Hit, yes… hurt, no.
No, no, no.
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
You are right.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
He didnt Shake Marv He Just Got His Attention
I remember some big bloke literally carrying Hearns back to his corner after the fight Ted . I still reckon the commentators got a bit carried away when they said Marvin was hurt by Hearns . Yeah he felt that uppercut but he wasnt doing the chicken dance and he didn’t change from getting in Hearns face and making in an alley fight .
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. " Hunter S Thompson.
Yeah, he really wasn’t hurt, just stunned for a second, but then he kept coming like a lion after a hyena.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes, for an instance, but Hagler kept coming like a monster.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 15, 2010 9:34 PM EDT reply actions
RE: Hagler/Hearns
Ted you’ve GOT to be wrong about that fight being 25 years ago. God, where has all the time gone! I was a young, fit and trim, 30 year old, unmarried, and had everything going for me … WTF happened?
I was oinly 48. Just moving into my prime years. Make it in the next ten or never make it. It’s called the final corridor.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 15, 2010 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions
RE: Hagler/Hearns
JC40 – Shook as far as Hagler could be shaken! That punch from Hearns took-out some great fighters.
I still Reckon Tommy Was The Most Dangerous Offensive Fighter I Have Ever Seen
Hearns had the best jab and the best one two combo that I have ever ever seen pound for pound . His left hook to the body was awesome as well. He had such LOOONG arms as well.He could hit a bloke from so far away . Roy Jones jr is the only fighter that was comparable offensively to Tommy but he wasn’t as long . If Hearns had a beard like Leonard let alone Hagler he might have been unbeatable.
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. " Hunter S Thompson.
Funny thing is, Tommy was one of the best body punchers I have ever seen. Those shots he pput on James Shuler and Iran Barkley were kidney busting, rib cracking, crunchers.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 15, 2010 10:02 PM EDT reply actions
Hearns Nearly Cut Shuler In Half
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. " Hunter S Thompson.
As a relative newcomer to boxing, I’d never seen those two fights until recently… man, if I wasn’t a sucker for good body punching before, I damn well would’ve been after seeing those fights.
Mickey Ward is still my favorite body puncher of all time, though.
by Verklemptomaniac on Apr 16, 2010 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
No argument with that, maniac.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
RE: Hagler/Hearns
True story: I read this somewhere and I can find the source if anyone calls me on it. The person quoted said that Marvin Hagler actually had a thicker skull that was revealed by a CT scan. I think it was in the Muhammed Ali book written by Thomas Hauser back in ’94. That guy could take a punch, man. Not Hauser, but Hagler.
by L.L. Cool John on Apr 15, 2010 10:02 PM EDT reply actions
I read that as well. Hagler lives about two miles from me in Bartlett, NH and when you see him in town, he is hardly noticable. He is very small and short. But in the ring, he looks like a monster.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 15, 2010 10:05 PM EDT reply actions
I just sussed this out on google LL,Hearns was so fast there could be no question that he was going to land something big against Marvin. But Hagler had not only one of the best chins in history, but his temple areas, the other bullseyes for knockout punchers, was protected by what doctors said was a skull so thick it could qualify as an NFL helmet.
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. " Hunter S Thompson.
Christ
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 15, 2010 10:06 PM EDT reply actions
T-Bone has joined BLH, btw.
Another lad from ESB who will now post on both sites.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 15, 2010 10:07 PM EDT reply actions
RE: Hagler/Hearns
Thank you, JC40, for that info. I didn’t want to go through my library tonight and attempt to prove what I said about Hagler.
Isn’t it strange that Duran could go the distance with Hagler, yet Hearns stops Duran in two rounds. I know … I know. Styles make fights. Weird!
by L.L. Cool John on Apr 15, 2010 10:12 PM EDT reply actions
I was just reading another article that claimed it wasn’t that Marvs actual skull bone density was abnormal but that Marv had the most muscular development in the facial and temple regions that the Boston Physician that did the test had ever seen. Whatever the reason and I reckon a lot of it is Marvs heart , he certainly had an incredible chin . Punchers like Briscoe , Cyclone Hart , Hearns and Mugabi never even wobbled him .
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. " Hunter S Thompson.
Another Gun Poster
TBones an eastside legend Ted . This place is becoming THE online boxing site of choice . Cheers John ! Take it easy Ted me old mate the missus and I are off to do some shopping .
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. " Hunter S Thompson.
RE: Hagler/Hearns
For the record, the physician that drilled the hole in Sares’s head told me that he had a thick skull that was similar to Marvin Hagler’s. Lol!!!
by L.L. Cool John on Apr 15, 2010 10:25 PM EDT reply actions
RE: Hagler/Hearns
Seem too? It was a bad day, Pug. I’ve had a few to drink. Actually, Pug, it’s been a bad year.
by L.L. Cool John on Apr 15, 2010 10:29 PM EDT reply actions
Hagler was not going to be beaten on that day. Hearns could have tried to box, but the pressure Marvin was applying would have cracked Hearns eventually. Marvin was a pretty fearsome package… Good power in both hands, an accurate puncher, southpaw, perfect balance, all-time-great level chin and A+ conditioning. He had all of that plus a fearsome competitive streak.
One thing I loved about Hagler: he never fought down to the level of his opposition. If you didn’t belong in there with him, he would annihilate you. He was not messing around in there.
Great post, laker. What Silver Lake might you be referring to?
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Silver Lake, Los Angeles. Glendale Blvd. to be precise.
by SilverLaker on Apr 16, 2010 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
Neat. There is a Silver Lake, NH right down the road and it really is silver and beautiful to behold.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I saw an interview with him where he discussed in detail the fact he thought he’d get robbed on the cards in any fight after the Antuofermo fight.
He basically said that he made up his mind not to let any fight after that go to the cards if he could possibly help it. This was 20 years later and you could still see the look in his eyes… It still bites him, I think, that he let Antuofermo off the hook and the judges robbed him.
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
And then, if memory serves....
wasn’t his next fight that went to the cards the Sugar Ray Leonard fight? And he got robbed?
A modern day prophet, was Marvellous Marvin…..
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
I was wrong.... memory didn't serve at all.....
Hagler won 2 other fights (out of 16 wins before Leonard) on points; vs Duran and Geraldo.
I must confess, I thought the Geraldo fight was before the Antuofermo fight. A couple of fights before the Antuofermo fight. Never mind.
I’m more gutted that I completely forgot the Duran fight!!! Mind-burp there, methinks!! :)
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
NAW. srl won im my view.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
We'll have to agree to differ.
I don’t even really see it as that close. I think last time I watched it I scored it 9-3 Hagler. I just don’t think Leonard wins on the balance of a lot of rounds. Hagler winning 2:30 of each round and Leonard letting his hands go for the other 30 seconds does not mean Leonard wins the round. He never hurt or even stunned Hagler, he never dominated more than 45 seconds of any single round.
I respect your opinion, but I can’t possibly agree that Leonard did enough to win that fight. It has tarnished Leonard for me, to be honest. I think Hagler was robbed, and he retired in disgust. Leonard getting a duff decision robbed me of more Marvin Hagler, and I’ll never quite be able to forgive him, or the judges, for that.
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
But Leaonard did, in fact, win. That was the ruling. I was amazed, but then, I was also amazed that Marvin came in one dimensional and did not know how to ciope with those last 30 seconds of each round. It was a great athletic achievemnet for SRL to come back and do that. KInd of like Vitali coming back to beat Sam Peter. Amazing.
I also think SRL saw that Hagler may have shot his load against Mugabi. And that may have been another reason Marvin never fought again. I have discussed it with him and he is very bitter about it.
I do respect the view that it could have gone either way.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Hard for me to be subjective about Hagler/Leonard
as Marvin fought a monumentally stupid fight. Stupid enough that while I thought he was winning at the time of actually seeing the fight, any time I’ve watched it after the initial viewing, all I can do is flinch. I was/am a big time admirer of Marvin Hagler, but I also think he was a bit overrated, and not even being able to handle the movement that Duran (another all time favorite, but a lightweight for God’s sake!) gave him was telling. Marvin was at this best when someone came at him. And Leonard (the little ball-buster) was not going to do that. Where were Marvin’s trainers? Someone should have lit a flame under his ass. He should have been all over Leonard from the first seconds, falling down when he missed if need be, but roughing Ray up, forcing a hectic pace: Showing Leonard that he in fact could not go twelve hard rounds with a bigger man. Of course Leonard waited until he saw in the Mugabi fight that Hagler could no longer put combinations together like once had before he was willing to face Marvin, but still. … And the whole thing about Dundee seeing the step-hesitate thing with Marvin No disrespect to the Petronelli’s but IMO Marvin could have done better against boxers. Just like Pavlik could use a different voice, I think Marvin could have. But I’m only a skinny onlooker. …
by Don From Prov on Apr 16, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Last thing: The first Vito fight?
Marvin might have gotten screwed, but he couldn’t dent that MoFo.
And he was surprised as hell.
Vito was the one getting stronger as things went on. Part of learning, I guess.
by Don From Prov on Apr 16, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Man, I wish I could have said it that well. Glad you were my editior.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
He got screwed in that one big time.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
This was my first big boxing memory. I remember watching it on ABC wide world of sports. I dunno if it was a replay or not, but I remember it like it was yesterday. I remember how as a 5 year old, I liked the tall guy in the yellow more than the short guy in the blue. And how one minute he was smashing the small guy, and how bad I felt when he got beat up and stopped. I almost cried. It was like the first time in my life I really had emotion about the outcome of a sporting event. Love em both, they are REAL champs.
I just might use your post in my book. It really came from the heart and it showed.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
DRMULLEN
Best 3 rounds I ever seen.
by DRMULLEN2010 on Apr 16, 2010 5:44 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
DRMULLEN
Early today I bought a giant T-shirt saying I love the IRS.
by DRMULLEN2010 on Apr 16, 2010 5:46 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Doc, Herans has one of those I hear.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Good spit......
I have a “Greatest Hits” tape I made myself years ago. It has “Hagler-Hearns” from 1985 on it.. I review that fight all the time when I’m ripped… Which is pretty often these days / nights…
I was stoked when Hagler dropped Hearns for the count in round 3. I wanted payback for Hearns’ destruction of a weight drained Roberto Duran the previous year in Vegas..
“Hagler-Hearns” is certainly in the top-10 of ATG fights period… Yes, a real diamond cutter there…. BOING!
Bill Petersen
MR.BILL
Raleigh, N.C.
Or booooooooooooooINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGG!
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I never saw.... DAMN!
I have never seen Hagler’s two fights with Fully Obel. Somehow for some reason ESPN Classics seems to have lost them tapes or they don’t give a spit. Why? Hell if I know why, but I’d like to view those fights some day…
I used to have Hagler versus “Scypion and Sibson” on tape, but I taped over them fights back in the 80s… I wish I had kept those…… The hell was I thinking.?.?
Bill Petersen
MR.BILL
Raleigh, N.C.
Fully Obel was a lot better than most think. I saw him crush the Irish Express in NYC.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Hagler had the best physique....
For a guy who I suppose never juiced in his career, Hagler had the best physique of any other fighter of the 1980s…… The dude was ripped and pumped….
Bill Petersen
MR.BILL
Raleigh, N.C.
All natural—just llke Holly-hahahahah
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
From Sherrif Ray Gordon Reid viaz email from Florida via Gerogia,
GOOD FRIDAY NMORNING MR TED MARVIN HAGLER TOMMY HEARNS YOUR AMIGO RAY GORDON MR BOXNG EXPERT REID WAYCROSS GEORGIA JANUARY1/11/1955 A FANTASIC ARTICLED KEEP THEM COMING A CLASSIC 26 YEAR AGO YESTERDAY MARVIN HAGLER FROM NEWARK NEW JERSEY TOMMY HEARNS BORN MEMPHIS TENN I LOVE THIS FIGHT BEST FIRST ROUND WELCOME MY GOOD FRIEND T-BONE TO BADLEFTHOOK DON’T MIND PEOPLE ROM EASTSIDEBOXINGOV MORE THE MERRIER YOU WONT GET BANNED I HOPE
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 1:30 PM EDT reply actions
I didn't think we were banning folks left and right
I think Supreme Court was the only one, and he got about 15 warnings first.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Off topic......
I get pissed when boxing freaks get on the web and write all kinds of rubbish that “Dempsey-Firpo” was the greatest fight ever as if they were ringside or own a clear tape of that fight from circa—-1923….. All I’ve seen of that fight are still photos and that famous painting of Dempsey being knocked through the ropes by Luis Firpo and falling onto a row of press typewriters, etc…… ARGH!
I wish a clean copy of that fight existed and was remastered to perfection…….. WORD!
Bill Petersen
MR.BILL
Raleigh, N.C.
Yes, buy youtube has now made "experts" out of everyone.
It used to be that I would only write about fights I have actually seen since 1945 to the present, but now, with yotube, you can see a lot more fights. However, my rule on youtube is that one must watch the entire fighht before writing about it. Max K is a classic for a talking about fights before he was even a gleam in his mother’s eyes. He acts like he was at ringside, Look, it helps to smell the cheap perfume, sweat, cheap after shave lotion blended in with smelly cigars and foamy warm beer and hot peanuts and hot dogs. You get that smell going and then listen to Johnny Addie or Ed Darien announce the fighters. Then you sit back and watch it live at St. Nick’s or Marigold Gardens or The Blue Horizon, and you scream along with the crowd and exchange “briliant observations” between rounds. No you tube can ever replace the total expperience in my humble opinion. Never.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 2:43 PM EDT reply actions
In the words of Jrok – I think the “cold light of day” provides a much better venue for accurate judging than the haze of a bar.
And I get that you can’t capture the atmosphere of the fight through youtube or ESPN classic or through any method, but Ted, what does that have to do with judging a fight?
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
Nothing, but I am not talking about judging a fight. I am talking about writing about a fight.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
And I saw these fights live before Max was a moist dream.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Collins wish list for the "Classic Rewind" segment
Marvin Hagler v. Ray Leonard
Thomas Hearns v. Ray Leonard
Here’s my thing: I think we had an attempt in the ‘80s to manufacture another Ali, and Ray Leonard was the subject of that project. I thought Leonard lost both those fights. I’d like to get the “cold light of day” perspective on those fights from our BLH motley crue as a gauge.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
we did Leonard-Hearns II
http://www.badlefthook.com/2009/9/30/1061717/classic-round-by-round-sugar-ray
I scored it 115-111 Hearns.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Apr 16, 2010 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
No argument from me. SRL did come on strong in the last round and almost took Tommy out. Almost.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
"I’d like to get the "cold light of day" perspective on those fights from our BLH motley crue as a gauge"
Whoa, does that leave out everyone else? Up tto now, there has been no discussion on Hearns-Leonard (two).
Ali was th right man for his time, and Leonard was thr ight amn for his time. Since I wrot about this in my ssecond book at some length, I’ll saty out of the discussion except to say that Hearns got screwed in that draw because no way were the powers to be going to derail “The Leonard Express,” because it meant more money for the sleaze element.
That is all.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 3:06 PM EDT reply actions
’ll saty out of the discussion except to say that Hearns got screwed in that draw because no way were the powers to be going to derail "The Leonard Express," because it meant more money for the sleaze element.
I’m on same page – glad to hear that’s also your perspective. BUT – now I really want to see Hagler v. Leonard because your agreement on Leonard v. Hearns II has me questioning my own perspective on Hagler v. Leonard.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
10-4
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Ugh-typos aplenty
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 3:07 PM EDT reply actions
I am being somewhat truclent today. I apologize.
The reaso is that Tatoo fanpost.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 3:22 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah, it’s a fun thread. Anytime you have Hearns or Hagler, you also get Leonard whether you want him or not.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
haha
What a great way to phrase that. I legitimately laughed at “you also get Leonard whether you want him or not.” It’s true, of course.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Apr 17, 2010 2:34 AM EDT up reply actions
hahahahah
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 17, 2010 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Also.......
It kills me when I read a thread written by a 21 year old girl named Jenna J. on ESB and she goes off as if she is the queen of boxing knowledge……. JESUS H. on a Friday…….. What next?? I know armageddon is well on its way………. The signs are all there…… GEEZ!!
MR.BILL
Bill Petersen
MR.BILL
Raleigh, N.C.
MRBILL, I feel your angst
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 16, 2010 8:21 PM EDT reply actions
Owen Beck STINKS!
Beck is brand named Fodder for heavyweights with a future………. I just saw / taped Tony Thompson beat the piss outta Beck……… No biggie…….
MR.BILL
Bill Petersen
MR.BILL
Raleigh, N.C.
That Tony is avery big guy. Very scary looking. Reminds me of Roy “Tiger” Williams a bit.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 17, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Cap'n Spaulding
House of 1000 corpses is KOOL!
Bill Petersen
MR.BILL
Raleigh, N.C.
Amen to that. The Cap’n truly rules.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 17, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Your avatar has had me intending to watch The Devil’s Rejects for the 800th time. Might do that this morning. Good breakfast film.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Apr 17, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Might want to hoild off on the breakfast untill after watching.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 17, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Gald to see you are a Chicago White Sox fan, as the Cubs suck the looooong barge pole.
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 17, 2010 1:33 PM EDT reply actions
Jameson Pre Plastic Surgery Disaster
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. " Hunter S Thompson.
Good God
"If you sit there and watch a person take about an hour to tie his shoestrings, then you realize that whatever problems you got ain't that significant"
---Vernon Forrest 2006
by The Midnight Rambler on Apr 17, 2010 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
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