Video: Holyfield-Botha Preview
by Scott Christ on Apr 7, 2010 9:58 PM EDT
in Boxing Fight Previews
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This is pretty hilarious stuff, but in a way you have to understand and expect. They're trying to sell this fight, of course they're going to tell you that Ibragimov-Holyfield was "a close decision" (Ibragimov won 117-111, 117-111, 118-110) and that the fight being in Moscow played some role in that.
They're trying to sell you this show, of course they're going to refer to Holyfield's 1992 fight with Riddick Bowe at the Thomas & Mack Center (where this fight is being held) was one of the great heavyweight fights of this era. It was a great fight -- but not of this era. That fight was held on November 13, 1992. A person born on that day would be seven months shy of being able to buy a pack of cigarettes in the United States of America. The Toronto Blue Jays had just won their first of two World Series in a row. They have not been to the postseason since. Oscar de la Hoya turned pro 10 days after Holyfield-Bowe I.
I'm not going to watch this fight (well, not live anyway). It's a completely irrelevant heavyweight fight. But I don't have a burning hatred of it or anything. At this point, we know what it is. Holyfield is going to be fighting when he's 50 and talking about winning the world heavyweight championship. My one true hope for this is Evander wins, thus claiming the completely useless WBF title, and that that's good enough for him, and he steps aside.
Quotes from their press conference:
Evander Holyfield: "I'm happy to have the opportunity to fight in Las Vegas again. Everything that's happened to me has been here - in 1984 I had to win Saturday and Sunday to make the Olympic team. In 1990, 1993, 1996 and 2000 I won the heavyweight title here. Las Vegas has been the place that's given me the opportunity to be the person I am. I'm thankful for Botha giving me an opportunity to fight for a title again. My goal has simply been to be undisputed heavyweight champion. I'm a person - I think my attitude is good when people tell me I can't do something -- I'm driven by what people say I can't do to prove I can. I'm not disappointed by decisions. I felt I beat Valuev. I won't quit seeking to do my best and Saturday night you'll see me give my all. If not enough, I'll make adjustments.
"To be perfect is to reach my goal. I thought I did it in 1999 against Lennox (Lewis). Here, in 2010, and it's going to be a great fight. I'm telling you, Saturday night, I'll look better than I used to be."
Frans Botha: "I'm defending my title against one of the greatest legends of all-time. This will make my resume perfect. I've fought some of the best and Evander is one of the best. Saturday night, I'm prepared for this. Evander had talent and experience. I'm getting in there knowing it's going to be a tough fight. ‘The White Buffalo' is roaming the prairie. I'm going to end your career, make you retire. The Buffalo is charging.
"I'm very grateful to be here. Me and Evander would have fought 10 years ago. I was No. 1 and he was champion. It didn't work out. You're a legend. You've fought some of the greatest, but I have to stop that. Saturday night you're going to see a helluva fight."
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I posted this in the fanshot a couple hours ago, but that will get buried now that this is up and I still think it is relevant, so I’ll repost it here for discussion. It is also now unreadably bold for some reason in the other thread too.
“I’ve never been a big fan of Evander due to the aforementioned hypocrisy and because the fact that he may literally be insane (and I mean literally — Dude thought god told him that he’d KO Lennox in three, remember), but we’ve been way too harsh on him in recent years. Look at his resume since his comeback in 06 after he finally gave himself time to heal.
06 – KO2 over Jeremy Bates
Here he destroyed a club fighter in an easy come back fight. No problems yet.
06 – UD over Fres Oquendo
This was a close fight that could have gone either way, and it went Evander’s way.Oquendo was a couple fights away from being a few minutes away from a title when he fought Ruiz for the WBA strap and was stopped in 11 in an extremely close fight. Since then Oquendo went on to mostly dominate James Toney and proceed to be absolutely robbed. Yet, Toney hasn’t reached the point where his fights cause such outcry for simply happening.
07 – KO3 over Vinny Maddalone
Sure, Maddalone is no world beater and was a step down from Oquendo, but Holyfield destroyed him. Young power punching prospect Denis Boystov couldn’t do that after Holyfield did.
07 – UD over Lou Savarese
This was an odd, unnecessary fight that Holyfield thoroughly dominated, and if memory serves me correctly, even entertained in.
07 – UD loss to Sultan Ibragimov
This was a bad loss, a 9-3, 10-2, or 11-1 type fight, yes. Ibragimov fought his safety first, snooze inducing style that he developed after the draw with Austin to keep Holyfield away. He basically used his youth compared to the old man. Ibragimov won the title hideously with this style against Briggs even more easily, and would lose it and retire against Wlad in one of the worst fights in recent years. Though it won him the rounds, Ibragimov didn’t really beat up old man Holy and only hurt him briefly with well placed body shot late in the fight. It wasn’t a good fight and it showed his age, but what in it screamed that this was a man that shouldn’t be fighting?
08 – MD loss to Nikolay Valuev
This fight rotted, but what Valuev fight doesn’t? I thought Holyfield won it relatively easy sans a couple middle rounds where Valuev found his jab. I remember having it either 8-4 or 9-3. The decision was a joke. Since then Valuev defended against Haye and I scored that fight a draw. Haye fought the same style that supposedly proved Holyfield too old to matter, and to be frank, did worse with it except for the one damaging left hook in the twelfth.
To summarize: Since Holyfield’s disastrous fall and he took the almost two years off to heal, he has dominated a journeyman, beaten a decent fighter, destroyed a fighter that Boystov couldn’t get out of there, beat another old fighter, had a really bad outing against a better athlete who just didn’t really want to fight, and did better against Valuev than Haye did. What is wrong with that?
Fans are selfish in a way with this sort of thing. Holyfield clearly isn’t what he was, so people want him to hang it up because it upsets them to see the faded version of him. Yet, this isn’t Roy Jones being stopped by Danny Green or even Erik Morales being beaten up by David Diaz. Holyfield has been perfectly competitive and hasn’t sustained much damage. If he was a younger, less well known fighter with the same resume, he’d be a fringe contender. However, he isn’t, and people seem offended at the idea of him fighting. I just don’t really get it.
I’d argue that Oquendo deserved the decision. But then that’s the story of Fres Oquendo’s life. His other wins are all junk, though. Vinny Maddalone isn’t just “not a world beater,” he’s every bit the journeyman that Jeremy Bates is. One is not better than the other. As for Boytsov not getting Maddalone out but Evander doing so, I’d point out that Brian Minto stopped Maddalone twice. He is a pure club fighter. Maddalone’s corner also stopped the fight — it was a TKO-3, not a KO-3.
I also can’t really properly judge Valuev fights since I think he’d deserved to lose about five times now, the Evander fight being one of those.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Apr 7, 2010 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I feel ridiculous arguing this moot point, but Maddalone is a couple levels above Bates. That is easy to see in watching them fight. I mean Maddalone fights on the level of a guy like Minto (what epics their fights are by the way - must see TV for any fight fan), and either him or Minto would roll Bates in a couple rounds. There are levels amongst club fighters too. Also, Maddalone’s corner stopped the fight because he was going to be KO’d very quickly, though there is an argument to be made that the playing field was vastly uneven because Maddalone was badly cut very quickly into the fight if I remember.
And yes Valuev has deserved to lose a couple times, but I’m not sure the Haye fight was one of them. Holyfield’s was. The Oquendo fight was an even fight, narrow either way.
My entire argument is this, however. We overreact to Holyfield fighting. He hasn’t taken any real damage in years. He’s done pretty well in all the fights he’s had since his comeback except for the Ibragimov borefest, but even then it isn’t like he was beat up. This isn’t a fighter who seems to be a danger to himself in the ring. If the guy wants to fight, then he should fight. Some fighters I say clearly should retire, and at one time (post Larry Donald) that Evander was that guy. So he did retire. Then he unretired, and he hasn’t been that awful fighter since. Is he prime? No, he’s closer to two decades from it than in it. But he has shown the ability to be fringe contender level. There are hundreds of fights every week between guys on the level of this fight. No one calls for them to retire. We’re selfish in asking, or rather demanding, fighters retire when they are past their peak just because we are used to them on a higher level when they don’t seem to be in immediate danger. If you’re not interested, and I’m sure as hell not, then don’t bother with it. I won’t. There isn’t a problem with it happening, however.
Also, finally, I’m aware that no one here has called for said retirement or yelled disgrace (or whatever), but if you haven’t heard those calls since the Toney fight whenever Evander has been brought up then you should probably have your hearing checked.
This isn’t a fighter who seems to be a danger to himself in the ring
Holyfield has taken decades of punishment. The 3 Bowe fights by themselves were a career’s worth of head shots for most guys, and those were 15 years ago. Since then he’s taken many shots from Tyson, Lennox, James Toney, etc. Holyfield’s going to be in very bad shape in a few years. He’s borderline right now for subscripts when he talks. He IS a danger to himself when he fights, and has been for several years. So…this is absolutely a fighter who is at risk in the ring. He is the epitome of “at risk” as the result of head trauma.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
This is a great post.
And is VERY similar to posts I have written myself about Holyfield.
We’re pretty much singing off exactly the same hymn-sheet here.
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
Maddalone is a couple levels above Bates.
Let’s say you’re right:
Bates
level
Maddalone
level
level
level
level
the corpse of Holyfield
level
and so on
My point is Maddalone is horrible and the only reason he has a significantly better record than Bates is because he fights worse competition. If Maddalone was fighting, in addition to Holyfield, Sergei Liakhovich, Kali Meehan, Odlanier Solis, Andrew Golota, Guillermo Jones, Ray Austin, Zack Page, etc. almost every single time out, he’d have a .500 record too.
We should pool funds and put on a Maddalone-Bates fight to settle this once and for all.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
I'm reading Ringside by Budd Schulberg at the moment..
And while I wouldn’t say everything he says is write or anything like that, it includes in it an article from 1998 about guys who fight on when they have nothing left – now, I know Evander had beaten Tyson only a few years before, but in reality at that stage he could have easily retired. In the article, Schulberg writes, ‘Evander, Evander Holyfield for God’s sake, for your sake, for all our sakes, go home. Once a role model for boxing integrity, you’re going out as a role model for boxing senility. We remember you when. Please, please stop asking all your old admirers to remember you now.’ And the sad truth of the matter is, by 1998, Holyfield had taken more than a lifetime of head shots – the guy is perceived as not being a danger to himself because he’s kept himself in decent physical shape; however, he’s slurring his words and isn’t even a quarter, heck an eighth, of the fighter he used to be. Now, when a guy has as big a heart as Holyfield undoubtedly does in the ring, surely it’s as wrong that he’s allowed to go out there and get pummelled in the knowledge that he won’t buckle and won’t quit? Evander’s acquired damage through war after war: just because he hasn’t been unceremoniously knocked the fuck out, doesn’t mean he hasn’t acquired a heck of a lot of hurt. The guy’s nearly 48 years old for crying out loud – the war with Qawi was in ‘86. He could have retired after that fight a hero, as far as I’m concerned.
"The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic"
by Oli Goldstein on Apr 8, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
jesus, i wrote 'write' instead of 'right' - apologies haha
"The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic"
by Oli Goldstein on Apr 8, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Botha Vs Holyfield
This fight will certainly be alot more entertaining than t that crap that Jones & Hopkins put on. I personally think it will be an entertaining fight.
by AUSSIE VLADIMIR on Apr 7, 2010 11:10 PM EDT reply actions
Holyfield is relevant
He was robbed versus Valuev, who still is Haye’s biggest HW win. He hasn’t looked bad in his past couple of fights either.
Imagine if he got awarded with the win against Valuev like he should have. He’d be a heavyweight champ now. I’m curious about this fight, while i definitely won’t be watching live i’ll take a look at how it went. If Holyfield wins and looks good while winning then he has as much right to be fighting as anyone else.
Imagine if he got awarded with the win against Valuev like he should have. He’d be a heavyweight champ now.
No he wouldn’t man. He’d be a WBA titlist, which is pretty much a joke title at this point anyway. And there is only one Champion or less per division. It wasn’t Valuev, it isn’t Haye and it wouldn’t have been Holy.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
I said “a heavyweight champ”, i didn’t say “the heavyweight champ”. Technically speaking, he’d be the heavyweight champion of the world of the oldest sanctioning body of them all. Obviously we know being a title holder isn’t what it used to be if you havent unified the belts, but still the fact is in his mid to late 40s he should have won a title.
The point is, yes he has declined, yes he is no longer the best heavyweight in the world. But it’s arguable that he’s as high as 4th. (i think the only guys who are certain to beat him are the klitschko’s and haye, he has a shot against pretty much anyone else in the division). And because he is still competitive and healthy he should be allowed to fight. And if he does well he should be allowed to pursue his goal of being the unified heavyweight champ again…until he is stopped in the ring. He hasn’t been seriously damaged in years, let him fight.
by CavsLebronFan on Apr 8, 2010 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
If he gets beaten by Botha
You’re going to feel really silly.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Apr 8, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
the oldest sanctioning body of them all
The WBA Heavyweight belt, once a prestige title, has been whored around for almost a decade now. It really belongs around Wlad K’s waist anyway, since he beat the WBA’s recess champ when he got rid of Chageav. So the belt Haye was gifted from Valuev was a belt that Valuev shouldn’t have been wearing in the first place, since he lost it to Chageav in the ring. Past that you have to get into the sad nonsense that was going on between Valuev and Ruiz. The belt has been stolen, sold, and rescued to many times over the past five years to be considered a championship title, unless you want to consider the IBO and the WBF titleholders champions too.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
I can honestly name 10 fighters without thinking about it
Who would beat Evander pretty easily right now.
Klit 1
Klit 2
Haye
Tua
Arreola
Peter
Boytsov
Dimitrenko
Ruiz
Chambers
Fuck it I’m bored. I reckon I could have pretty easily gotten to 20 though….
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
it’s arguable that he’s as high as 4th.
No it isn’t.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
It's arguable the same way it's arguable that Brien Nielsen was the greatest heavyweight ever
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Here’s the thing: Who’s stopping him from fighting? Nobody. But do you see the Klitschkos or David Haye entertaining the idea of fighting him? No. Why? Because it’s not a relevant or useful fight. Beating up an old man doesn’t do anything for them. Do you see ANY top contenders entertaining a fight with him? I don’t. Valuev fought him, but Valuev’s not a boxer, he’s a freak show attraction. I know that sounds mean, but it’s true. “CAN OLD MAN TOPPLE GIANT FREAK?” might as well have been the tagline for that promotion.
I don’t care if Holyfield fights on. If he can pass the tests, and he wants to fight, fine. But his fights are meaningless. Fighting Francois Botha is just a famous club fight at this point.
And if anyone’s going to talk about money, Holyfield-Botha has sold less than 1,000 tickets.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
“I’m very grateful to be here. Me and Evander would have fought 10 years ago. I was No. 1 and he was champion. It didn’t work out.
botha is more delusional than evander if he thinks he was ranked #1 at anytime.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
.
I love that Botha
Can say he is “defending his title” with a straight face.
by The Boxer Rebellion on Apr 8, 2010 12:58 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Yes, Franz
you are fighting one of the greatest legends in boxing. …
A legend of such antiquity that it now falls into the category of myth.
Words like “misty past” come to mind.
I love that Botha
Can say he is "defending his title" with a straig
Right. At what point do we cross from sport to show-biz, at least on one level?
Yes, the “title” part of this fight is a joke. A bigger joke is that Botha is about to be KO’d by a 48 year old.
by CavsLebronFan on Apr 8, 2010 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Just for fun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvJ90_eZErw
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
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