Kelly Pavlik officially declines rematch, moving up in weight
by Brickhaus on May 11, 2010 2:36 PM EDT
in Boxing News Analysis
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According to the Youngstown Vindicator, Kelly Pavlik has officially declined to exercise his rematch clause against Sergio Martinez and will be moving up in weight. Last month, Pavlik lost at middleweight for the first time in his career and lost his middleweight championship to the Argentine Sergio Martinez, who had moved up in weight to challenge for Pavlik's title.
This ends a couple of weeks of mixed messages and speculation for Pavlik. For well over a year, Pavlik has stated that he's had trouble making the middleweight limit recently, and his ring weight against Martinez was over the light heavyweight limit. During his post-fight interview, Pavlik again brought up weight issues, but did indicate that he would like to rematch Martinez. During last weekend's bout between Paul Williams and Kermit Cintron, Larry Merchant stated that Pavlik would not be exercising the clause, although trainer Jack Leow later refuted that assertion with the press.
Pavlik is in somewhat of a no-man's land now. At over 6'2" and with a walking weight in the 180's, he has the length and the frame to move all the way up to light heavyweight if he wants to. On the other hand, Pavlik looked a bit lethargic in his two bouts over the middleweight limit, against Jermain Taylor and especially Bernard Hopkins.
Options at both sumer middleweight and light heavyweight are relatively thin. Most of the 'name' super middleweights are either contractually tied up with the Super Six tournament or are guys who Pavlik has already beaten (Miranda, Taylor). The one name super middleweight who is available is Lucian Bute, who is pretty similar to Martinez and probably is a pretty bad style matchup for Pavlik, especially coming off a loss. There's even more of a dearth of big name fighters at light heavyweight. Chad Dawson is well known, but he couldn't draw a stick figure. Antonio Tarver says he's not retired, and Glen Johnson is still soldiering on, but they're both north of 40 and don't have much time left. After that, there are a lot of names that Pavlik might beat, but who don't have much name recognition of their own.
Don't expect a decision to get made too quickly. Pavlik and advisor Cameron Dunkin will probably wait to see what kinds of offers come in, and make a decision based on that as well as general training.
This decision also leaves Sergio Martinez without an immediate dancing partner. While he's just won the middleweight championship of the world, the only big name alternatives left for him to fight at that weight would be Paul Williams or Winky Wright. Martinez also holds a belt at junior middleweight, and may have more options there, including a rematch against Antonio Margarito, or a shot at the winner of the bout between Miguel Cotto and Yuri Foreman.
In the meantime, it's back to the gym for Pavlik, which shouldn't be as grueling now that he doesn't have to cut weight to absurd levels. According to Leow, the goal is "to get back to training like a regular fighter and throwing 100 punches a round." If moving up means he gets his old workrate back, then it's probably a good decision, even though he's already walked away from what is likely to be the most lucrative offer he'll get for a while.
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HBO wanted Bute v Pavlik
Now they have their wish.
I think Cintron/Williams rematch will happen and Tony vs Martinez will happen too
Floyd-Mosley did 1.4 million buys
Bute would kill Pavlik
but I would like to see Pavlik vs guys like Froch/Abraham.
Wasn’t PAvlik like 15+ pounds over the weight limit a day before fighting Martinez?
by GoldenSt8OfMind on May 12, 2010 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
A SLAUGHTER IN THE MAKING
Come on…BUTE? This isn’t competitive. First of all, Pavlik has to prove he will take his punch with him when he moves up in weight. That’s all he has against Bute or any Super Six guy (except maybe AA). Everyone else will outbox him. Sure, a Bute-Pavlik fight is compelling, and would be HUGE in Quebec, but KP needs to show us he can compete at 168 or over.
That’s all he has against Bute or any Super Six guy (except maybe AA).
I think he matches up nicely with both Kessler and Froch.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 11, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
For sure Froch.
Froch might make PAvlik look like a slick boxer haha.
by GoldenSt8OfMind on May 12, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Froch
and Pavlik would sure as hell be entertaining.
Pavlik/Abraham should have taken place at 160 lb. I’d like to see it at 168.
by Don From Prov on May 12, 2010 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I Pavlik draws Bute for his first challenge at 168, he will get brutalized. He would need at least three fights to truly get acclimated to the weight, a new trainer and at least one good southpaw opponent or sparring partner. And Bute might still slaughter him, after all that, but truly I don’t think he has a prayer if he leaps right in there.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
If Pavlik draws
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
GREAT MINDS THINK ALIKE
no other comment is necessary.
by FrankinDallas on May 11, 2010 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s the rough spot he’s in. I mean, you’re right — Bute will carve him up if he goes right to him. He just got sliced up by a really good, smaller southpaw. He’d have to accept smaller paydays and the fact that he’s going to have to be on Top Rank PPVs or that Top Rank Live show for a couple fights if he wants to do this right. If he’s thinking money, the only real option out there is Bute, and it’s a bad idea. I’d admire his guts, but I wouldn’t think less of him for getting used to the weight before taking a massive challenge, either.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 11, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
But with Bob Arum as Pavlik’s promoter, I’m willing to bet he gets either a faded name or a nobody on a small PPV card as his comeback fight. That’s Arum’s pattern with top guys coming off of losses. Since there aren’t too many severely faded name fighters (Roy Jones?), I’m guessing it will be the latter. Maybe someone like Andrade or Diaconu even, either of which would be a good comeback fight but very winnable for Pavlik.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Brinkley would actually be a perfect step up to the weight. Or a guy like Brinkley. I’m sure Jesse feels like he should just get his title shot and wouldn’t want to risk that against Pavlik or anybody else.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 11, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Manfredo?
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
That would work. Manfredo’s never been afraid to fight anybody.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 11, 2010 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
And he is better than ever.
This has been the most life-affirming thing for me, to know you're valued and then show your resolve to not just curl up and die,
--Nick Charles
by The Midnight Rambler on May 12, 2010 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
A really bad, not impossible enough idea.
He needs a settle in fight, wherever he lands, and another guy you’ve heard of probably doesn’t know when to say when. So…
Pavlik-Taylor III at supermiddle, anyone?
/gulp
That would be brutal the other way. Pavlik has a long road to get back to the top, but Taylor’s road is much, much longer, and that’s even wants to drive on it anymore. If Jermain ever wants to mount a comeback, I think we are talking years of small fights.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
So
ends the OY promoted Kelly as the next Monzon story-line.
snicker
The next Monzon with a dash of Tommy Hearns and a dollop of Marvelous Marvin actually Donny ;-)
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. " Hunter S Thompson.
And whose inpeccable footwork failed him about as completely
as his punch out-put when other fighters wouldn’t cooperate and stand right in front of him.
Cheeky bastards!
by Don From Prov on May 12, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Pavlik’s in a no win situation. He can’t make 160 any more. Even if he could I doubt he’ll look forward to facing Martinez again. 168 has a tournament going on in which all the big names (minus 1) are tied up. The one who ain’t Bute, I think we all agree on pretty much walks right through him. That leaves Librado Andrade, Sakio Bika and Robert Stieglitz as the next best avaiable opponents. Andrade is pretty much a bigger version of Pavlik. Who I think would just brualize him. Bika is an oakward fighter who would without a doubt frustrate Pavlik. Stieglitz I doubt would ever consider coming back to the US. So he’s out.
Yeah Pavlik’s pretty much fucked
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
by Violent Demise on May 12, 2010 11:31 AM EDT reply actions
Indeed
This has been the most life-affirming thing for me, to know you're valued and then show your resolve to not just curl up and die,
--Nick Charles
by The Midnight Rambler on May 12, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Andrade = bigger Pavlik?
Have you seen the two guys you’re talking about actually fight?
Aside from both being boxers, there isn’t much else similar about them.
Pavlik relies on the big right hand – Andrade relies on pressure and endurance
Pavlik has a jab which works – Andrade last threw a jab in about 1987.
Pavlik has one-shot power – Andrade uses cumulative punishment to break guys down.
This is one of the more insane comparisons I’ve seen recently, and I’m currently writing on Freud, so you might need help.
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
Pavlik and Andrade are both one-dimensional fighters. Any moron can see that. People like to think Pavlik is a little more deserve than Andrade (who isn’t?). Fine. Go ahead. But in reality Pavlik is a one trick pony. Jab and right hand. that’s it. Like Andrade he sucks fighting backwards. Like Andrade he needs to come forward and impose his will to be successful. Like Andrade fighters that use the ring give him problems. Need me to dumb this down some more?
There is nothing more overrated in Boxing than Kelly Pavlik’s power. Yes he has good power. But one-shot power? No. You got to actually be able to actually knock somebody out with one punch to have that. Pavlik doesn’t stop people with one punch. Like Andrade he uses cumulative punches to get his stoppages. Look at the Espino fight. A smaller fighter who took every punch Pavlik had until the 5th. Rubio had been stopped by one punch before in his career. Took 9 rounds with Rubio still on his feet before it was stopped. Zertuche went down from one punch but he was already broken down from taking 8 rounds worth of punishment.
Nothing wrong with being a Pavlik fan. But lets not overrated the man.
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
by Violent Demise on May 12, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Pavlik outboxed Martinez for four rounds of their fight. Martinez obviously showed he was better in the end, but I guarantee you that a similarly sized Andrade would have outboxed Martinez for zero rounds and would have banked entirely on hoping he’d get a late round KO.
The Pavlik-Andrade comparison is frankly pretty ridiculous and I’m sure everyone else here can see it. Pavlik has his faults, but those two guys are not that similar. Their styles are not even all that similar.
Thanks.
Glad you were here and you got my back. :)
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
I'm pretty confident that Pavlik would outbox the hell out of Andrade
And it’s just a question of whether either (a) Pavlik can move his feet well enough that Andrade doesn’t just walk through his punches and beat him up or (b) his chin is good enough to not get beat up. That said, Kessler dominated Andrade, and I there isn’t much Kessler can do that I don’t think Pavlik can do.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
revision to (b)
I meant his chin is good enough that he can remain standing at the end despite getting beat up.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Kessler power is greater than Pavlik’s. And it did little to discourage Andrade. Pavlik’s power doesn’t seem to be the same at 168. If that’s true than he has nothing for Andrade to worry about.
Question. When exactly has Pavlik ever out boxed anybody in his career before?
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
by Violent Demise on May 12, 2010 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he arguably outboxed Taylor in the rematch to get the decision?
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
And he's outboxed pretty much everyone else in his career outside of Hopkins and Martinez
It’s almost a silly question, really. He’s not a technical genius, but he can box. Yes, he’s won a lot of fights by knockout, but that’s because he’s been able to land lots of punches, and it’s not like any of them were come from behind KOs.
And if someone thinks that Pavlik has never outboxed anyone, then I would be befuddled as to how they think Andrade has outboxed anyone.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
My thoughts are pretty similar. It’s not that he’s a terrible boxer. He can box, and he did outbox Taylor in their second bout. He is definitely not a one-note slugger like Miranda or a Frankenstein like Andrade. I’d pick him to handily outbox Andrade (not that this is the most difficult feat to accomplish in a ring). He’s got a good jab straight, a good left hook to the body and a nice right uppercut. Many of his other punches could use work, and he doesn’t throw enough combinations in general. I’ve seen him cut off a ring, but not against a top shelf boxer. He wants to push a guy on his back foot, but when that doesn’t work he seems lost at sea. Hopkins was able to disrupt him with ease. Pavlik was able to outbox Jermain because Jermain has bad habits and problems maintaining focus; Taylor’s either trying to do too much or too little at any given time. Martinez knew exactly what he wanted to do, and except for a few rounds in the middle, Pavlik had no way of stopping him.
Also, Pavlik looked like he was “learning on the job” in there with Martinez, which is suicide when you are fighting and elite southpaw. Who the hell did he spar with to prepare for that fight?
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
God only knows.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 13, 2010 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
The irony shouldn’t be lost here. Pavlik beats Miranda, Miranda claims he was drained and moves up to 168. Pavlik beats Taylor, Taylor claims he was drained and moves up to 168. Martinez beats Pavlik, Pavlik claims he was drained and moves up to 168. Taylor and Miranda got smashed after they made the jump, and I think the same will be true for Pavlik, especially if he tries to jump into big fights right away like they did.
My favorite division in Boxing has seen better days for sure. This was an unintended consequence of adding the Super Middleweight division in the first place, although a lot of people saw it coming back then, too: an escape hatch that regularly empties out one of Boxing’s glory divisions. 168 is very live class right now, which is mostly a good thing, but if it’s at the expense of 160 it kind of stinks.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Look, you want irony. Zuri almost waxes Sosnowski. Sosnowski waxes Danny Williams. Dannt Starches Tyson. Thus, Zuri Lawrence
BEATS TYSON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This has been the most life-affirming thing for me, to know you're valued and then show your resolve to not just curl up and die,
--Nick Charles
by The Midnight Rambler on May 12, 2010 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Err.... what's ironic about that?
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
Nothing. Just needed to show it to jrok who likes that sort of stuff. And you do , too, don't you?
This has been the most life-affirming thing for me, to know you're valued and then show your resolve to not just curl up and die,
--Nick Charles
by The Midnight Rambler on May 12, 2010 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I love knowledge for knowledge's sake.
The fact you are a fountain of knowledge is your one redeeming feature, Ted. :) :)
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
Pavlik beats Taylor, Taylor claims he was drained and moves up to 168.
To be entirely fair to my boy JT (I might as well just call him my boy, given how much I defend and genuinely admire his career), they were talking moving up to 168 before the Pavlik fight, and before the Spinks fight even. Taylor had been struggling to make weight. But when Pavlik tore the shit out of Miranda and got people actually talking about Taylor-Pavlik (since Taylor’s win over Spinks was such a stinkbomb), Jermain took the fight. A guy had earned a shot and Jermain gave it to him. And then they put on a great fight and a real good rematch.
And I hesitate to put Edison Miranda in league with Taylor and Pavlik when it comes to “he moved up in weight after.” Taylor and Pavlik were middleweight champion of the world. Miranda’s never done dick except being responsible for that oft-used image of King Arthur’s grotesquely swollen jaw.
The middleweights will be back eventually. The light heavies are just about as bad, but once the 168 guys start inching up there it’s going to look good too, probably.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 13, 2010 6:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Or, Butterbean sends Louis Monaco to Monoco Dreamland. Monoco sends Kevin McBride to Clones Dreamland. McBdride makes
Tyson quit on a stool like a beaten dog. Therefore, The Bean takes out Iron Mike.
This has been the most life-affirming thing for me, to know you're valued and then show your resolve to not just curl up and die,
--Nick Charles
by The Midnight Rambler on May 12, 2010 3:17 PM EDT reply actions
I belong to the Boxing Trivia Hall of Fame
This has been the most life-affirming thing for me, to know you're valued and then show your resolve to not just curl up and die,
--Nick Charles
by The Midnight Rambler on May 12, 2010 4:25 PM EDT reply actions
In other news
Pavlik is a dope who doesn’t want to get a sizable payday for fighting a rematch which would be awesome in every way.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
On the basis of Pavlik's last few performances
if I was him I’d be in no rush to get in the ring with Bute or any of the Super 6 competitors. I’d see Bute, Ward, Dirrell and Kessler outboxing him and Froch I think would just walk through him. Abraham might be best bet, but I’d put my money on the King. Slow rebuild is in order – expect less money, a lot less fanfare, new coach etc He looked totally draineed of self belief and confidence to me by the end of the Martinez fight. Reports of his greatness were indeed exaggerated !
As are reports of his demise currently, IMO. (Not that I’m saying you’re reporting his demise.)
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 13, 2010 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Time will tell. But really do you see much success for him at 168 or above? Truth be told, I don’t
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
by Violent Demise on May 14, 2010 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I think he might be done as a top-flight fighter. Maybe he’s not. I’m just not ready to call it yet. I think his problems are a lot more to do with the fact that he hasn’t gotten himself out of that bubble he’s been living in. Get out of Youngstown, get a new trainer who can get you world-class sparring and might genuinely push you in the gym, etc.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 14, 2010 6:09 AM EDT up reply actions
no
This has been the most life-affirming thing for me, to know you're valued and then show your resolve to not just curl up and die,
--Nick Charles
by The Midnight Rambler on May 14, 2010 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
SC - yeah an over reaction is all too common after a loss.
I’m not really sure where he is at now – I assume the move up confirms beyond reasonable doubt he can’t do 160 anymore. He’s moving into a Division where (a) there is great depth and (b) all the best known fighters are tied up except for the one he’d be best advised to avoid at the moment – As Brickhaus says. If he had a completely new Team and accepted the fact that he needs to rebuild then I think fans would be more willing to accept him fighting lesser opponents for a while. I also think the change might give him greater confidence and self belief – like a fresh start – it often seems to help fighters. He’s an exciting fighter to watch, but I think a bad move now could really spell the end.
On the prescipice
This has been the most life-affirming thing for me, to know you're valued and then show your resolve to not just curl up and die,
--Nick Charles
by The Midnight Rambler on May 13, 2010 10:25 PM EDT reply actions
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