Victor Ortiz, Nate Campbell and The Fight That Said Too Much
I'll say right off I have never been a big Victor Ortiz fan. I always liked watching him fight, because the "Vicious" nickname was earned. The guy came to knock people out, had a ferociousness about him.
But like a captive lion that could roar on demand in a performance, Ortiz whimpered when met with opposition that fought back last year in the form of Marcos Maidana. After plowing through easy marks, he was set up with what was thought to be a cruel brawler, just another stepping stone en route to the new Golden Boy "Golden Boy" making his name among boxing's elite.
From a marketing standpoint, I get it with Ortiz. He's a handsome kid, has a good punch, a backstory that makes you root for him, and he loves to smile and crack a joke. His personality came off almost Bill and Ted-like at points. He was a nice guy, a carefree spirit, almost flippant at times. He seemed, after his easy demolitions of overmatched foes, to not have a care in the world. Boxing was his job, and he was good at it. He was mowing people down and being told by his bosses and TV people he'd be one of the next big things.
Maidana kicked his ass, and though Ortiz probably has more boxing talent, he didn't have the guts to carry on in that fight. I'm not trying to call him a coward or anything intense like that. When I say he didn't have the guts, I mean in relation to other, tougher boxers. All boxers are some level of tough that I'm not.
But we saw Ortiz crumble mentally more than physically. Yes, Maidana had torn him up, busted open cuts and given him a healthy amount of swelling around the eyes. More than the physical damage was the fact that Ortiz could see when he hit Maidana with his best shots, even if Maidana went down, he kept coming back. He wasn't Jeffrey Resto, he wasn't Mike Arnaoutis, he wasn't Carlos Maussa. Maidana was there to shake things up and win.
Tonight, we got to see Victor Ortiz in his third fight since the Maidana loss. In fight one, he was tentative against Antonio Diaz, but those two are also friendly outside the ring, and I've always kept that in the back of my head. Against Hector Alatorre, Ortiz carried a completely overmatched fighter who had no business in the same ring as Victor, before getting the stoppage in the final round, which ate up some good TV time for Fight Night Club.
This time out, he faced Nate Campbell. I picked Campbell (and Paul Malignaggi) while knowing I'd likely be wrong. I'll even say that while I think Ortiz is talented, something about him bugs me. Something always bugged me about Oscar de la Hoya, too. I'm a fan, and some guys rub me the wrong way. Campbell, on the other hand, is one of my favorite fighters. He'll say what's on his mind, whether he should say it or not, and there's just not an ounce of bullshit in Nate Campbell. Sure, he's a talker and a charmer, as Max Kellerman noted on tonight's broadcast, but I find I've almost always naturally agreed with what Nate was saying. He didn't have to talk something up to get me to change my mind, I just usually felt he was right. He's a straight shooter and a good dude.
Ortiz dominated him. Nate Campbell is 38 years old, lost a year of his career to other peoples' mistakes, and is fighting in a weight class where he doesn't really belong. Campbell probably won't retire, because the man has bills to pay and it wasn't that long ago that he had to file for bankruptcy while holding three lightweight titles. He'll fight on. He might not be more than a gatekeeper at 140, but he'll fight. I think Campbell, like Stevie Johnston or Steve Forbes, is one of those guys who's just going to keep boxing until it's beyond clear he should stop. He's that kind of guy. I don't think he's too concerned with how many Ls wind up on his final record. Boxing's a business and Nate Campbell is a guy who's never been shy about saying he wants to make money.
He did look shot last night. He didn't look good at all against Tim Bradley last August, but that was three rounds, and Campbell's eye was legitimately screwed up in that fight. I think now and thought then that Bradley likely won the fight going away even without the eye injury, and tonight seems to indicate that that's probably true. Ortiz had an easy night at the office.
What bothered me was I think it was too easy.
Look, Ortiz can't help that Nate Campbell is 38 and faded, that Campbell isn't the fighter he used to be. Campbell was universally still ranked in the top 10 at 140, where Ortiz was not entering this fight. Campbell is still Ortiz's best win. But Ortiz was clearly going to win this fight once it was about three rounds old. So why go on cruise control?
Maybe it's a tactical decision. Maybe instead of being the bash 'em up slugger he used to be, Ortiz's team looked at their fighter after the Maidana fight and said, "We need to box more." That would be wise. Ortiz didn't give a great account of himself in a slugfest. Yeah, he was ahead on the cards, but nobody on earth thinks he was going to win that fight if he hadn't pulled out. Maidana was moments away from finishing Ortiz off in brutal fashion.
But Campbell clearly had nothing in there, and Ortiz showed no desire to go for the finish at any point. Campbell was slow, had no zip on his punches, and Ortiz was landing good, clean, hard shots throughout the fight. Nate landed maybe a handful of good punches, and they didn't really seem to have any effect on Ortiz, save for one body shot in the middle of the fight.
The fight told me that when Victor Ortiz eventually has to face a guy who will offer not just resistance, but pressure, Ortiz will again fold. I don't say that meaning to "hate on" Ortiz, or to be a jerk. I just get that feeling. I don't think he ever beats Marcos Maidana, not because he couldn't outbox Maidana, but because I don't think he can stand up to him over 10-to-12 rounds. I don't think he can handle a guy like Timothy Bradley, because Bradley attacks. And as dodgy as Amir Khan's chin is, I don't think Ortiz can beat him either, because Ortiz showed too much willingness to be tentative, and Khan's speed is such that he can get Victor thinking way too much to even get his own shots off. Devon Alexander is too much for Ortiz, too, in my view.
So what's the ceiling? Ortiz could pick up a title belt at some point. Hell, almost anyone worth half a damn wins a belt nowadays, and it isn't talent that Ortiz lacks.
But if he couldn't do more against a smaller, older, weaker, cooked Nate Campbell, what's he going to do against determined young guys who still have more than their heart going for them? Nate Campbell did not lack for guts in this fight, he just didn't have it physically, and he posed no threat to Ortiz at any point.
Those still hoping for Victor Ortiz to be one of the flag bearers of boxing's next generation of stars are holding on to a shred of hope at this point, and I feel that more after this shutout win than I did after he quit against Maidana. There's just that x-factor, whatever it is, that Victor Ortiz doesn't have. Boxing has, in my opinion, a terrific young crop of fighters out there, who largely seem like they're willing to take challenges. I just can't see talking about Ortiz alongside guys like Bradley, Ward, Alexander, etc., as one of the truly standout young guns in the sport. He just doesn't show those same qualities.
But I'm still interested to see where he goes. Maybe he surprises me. Maybe it really is just a new style they're working with, one they feel he's better suited for. And if so, they just might be 100% right. We'll find out the next time he's in the ring with a guy who has more than Nate Campbell had left.
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This was a nicewrap up SC, but this line escaped me a little:
This time out, he faced Nate Campbell. I picked Campbell (and Paul Malignaggi) while knowing I’d likely be wrong.
I’m not criticizing you in any way shape or form. I’m just trying to understand what you mean by it. Do you mean you laid a bit of scratch on these guys, even though you though they’d probably lose (which believe me I understant)? I just don’t get what you mean by you picked them but thought they would lose. And I might have missed something you said before about these two bouts admittedly.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
I don’t bet on boxing. I didn’t THINK they would lose, but I wasn’t dumb enough to not see that if you flipped a coin on it, it doesn’t seem to come out 70% of the time for Khan and Ortiz. I though Malignaggi would present more problems, and I liked his experience against Khan on this particular night. Didn’t pan out, obviously. Campbell I thought would have more left than he did and hit Ortiz more than a few times, but he didn’t. In the back of my mind, I kept seeing the Nate that didn’t do anything against Bradley. But I gave him the benefit of the doubt and believed that Ortiz would crumble if hit by Nate. Nate just didn’t hit him.
My picks have never been offered as Big Jimmy’s Master Lock of the Week CA-CHING. I’m rarely surprised when I’m wrong, because 99% of the time, I can see how I would be wrong.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 16, 2010 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Alright, fair enough
I never thought of you as Big Jimmy or the 5 Canoli Pick or whatever. You’re much better than that crappola. I just didn’t get the line.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
A lil harsh
Ortiz is still very young, he’s still developing as a fighter. I know a lot of people share your sentiment about Ortiz but I like to see the upside of this kid. Ortiz can punch, he has the skills, he was very disciplined tonight. Although he didn’t put Nate away as I expected he did what he had to do.
It’s admittedly harsh. I just don’t think he’s all that good, and I feel he’s been tremendously overhyped and I also feel he bought into his own press and the yes-men telling him how great he was, which was part of his mental breakdown against Maidana. He’d never had to meet any adversity in the ring and he turned out to be gloriously incapable of handling it.
That was still a really good fight, though, and I really have no issues with watching Victor fight. He’s plenty entertaining. Shit, I hope he proves me wrong and turns out to have a great career. I can’t think of anyone I genuinely root against. I like good fights and good fighters. If Ortiz turns out to be better than I think he is, I’ll probably like him more than I do now. And even if I don’t, that’ll be on me, but I always enjoyed watching Oscar, too, and was never a fan of his.
(Hmmm…I really can’t think of anyone I root against. Well, Eric Morel.)
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 16, 2010 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions
and yes
He has talent. I think he has more genuine talent than even he realizes, if that makes sense.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 16, 2010 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah it does
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
"Maidana kicked his ass"
While Maidana was dropped 3 times and losing by a wide margin on the cards.
He kicked his ass all over the place
In the last round.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 16, 2010 8:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Because that was the story of the fight, not Maidana beating the crap out of Ortiz and making him quit.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 16, 2010 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
In other news, Pacquiao sure kicked Juan Manuel Marquez’s ass in that one fight he knocked him down three times in the first round! Didn’t he? What?
by El Destruyo on May 16, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Seriously, Marcos landed some of the most brutal shots I’ve seen in a while late in that fight. Absolute BOMBS. There is no other way to view that fight other than “Ortiz got his ass kicked.”
by The Boxer Rebellion on May 16, 2010 1:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't think it's unfair to question a figther who quit,
until he shows that it was an aberration. It’s just the nature of the business.
IMO, no matter how back and forth the fight was, MM kicked his ass big time in the end.
by Don From Prov on May 18, 2010 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I think your right in alot of ways there SC. I think he did buy in to his own hype abit much.
That Maidana fight was getting to a no win situation for Ortiz and while I dont like how he just gave up I do see the reason behind it. He was starting to get his ass handed to him, he already hit Maidana with everything he had and he was still standing plus he was unable to keep him off. It was a case of do I go out on my shield and get KTFO or do I give up, like a mercy stoppage.
He needs to step up now and look for a rematch with Maidana to shake the worries away, also needs to be able to know which opponents he can be Vicious with and blow out the water and the ones he should box. I think he can beat Maidana but not while trying to get him out in the first few rounds.
"I'm scared every time I go into the ring, but it's how you handle it. What you have to do is plant your feet, bite down on your mouthpiece and say, 'Let's go.'" Mike Tyson
I think he'll beat Maidana too
he fought the wrong fight first up, and I think the Campbell win was a confidence builder rather than a ‘lets make a statement’ fight. When your confidence is fragile it takes a while to build back up.
Maybe they’re hoping that Maidana gets beaten in the meantime (by Khan?) and then they can pick up the pieces after.
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
Time will tell...
Maidana humbled a kid that was used to having everything his own way and did believe he was going to walk through everyone.
The Maidana experience would have burst his bubble. It is possible that this could have been a positive experience for him. Realising he couldnt just walk through his opponents hes used his boxing more and realises his limitations more.
The only time we can only really rejudge Ortiz is when he faces adversity again. He may buckle and show fragility again or we may see some mental development.
I believe hes got skills and if his mental game is up to scratch he’ll be a force.
Ortiz looked pretty darn complete in there. Great combos and movement.
This has been the most life-affirming thing for me, to know you're valued and then show your resolve to not just curl up and die,
--Nick Charles
by The Midnight Rambler on May 16, 2010 10:24 AM EDT reply actions
Good piece. Good harsh.
Ortiz felt like a creation to me long before Maidana sent the balloon down in flames, and it’s especially interesting to see him now in contrast to Amir Khan, a fighter many have (and still do) think of as creation rather than boxer.
Khan has absurd speed, which places his talent on a greater plane, but his suspect chin is a comparable flaw to Ortiz’s suspect heart. Both fighters have gone through makeovers since taking surprising beatings.
But your results? A dominant performance that had no need to go to the cards, and the target practice of Khan-Maggs; I’ve never seen Paulie hit at a clip like that.
Some of Ortiz’s brawler talents are being lost in translation, because his trainers are as scared as he is that one big combination will put his heart in his boots. Khan, as an article commented here, is just a much smarter version of the same wickedly fast fighter.
Ortiz could still be a top 5, maaybe even top 3 junior welter, though I won’t be rooting for him, or expecting that. I think what he really needs to learn can’t be taught.
I think the thing is, Ortiz executed the exact plan that they’d come up with for that fight, no more or less. They wanted him to get in there and use his youth to just win rounds, pile up points, stay out of danger and get “Nate Campbell” stamped on his resume next to a W. In that sense, Victor had a very good night. It wasn’t a statement fight, but it wasn’t supposed to be. It was just supposed to be a very clear and decisive win, and that’s what it was.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
I though Nate looked way too old in the tooth as far back as Funeka. Against Bradley, nothing he did changed that opinion.
Against Ortiz, he proved it. Nate is done.
Good, so it can’t go any deeper – Arturo Gatti after being told he was cut to the bone
by The Midnight Rambler on May 16, 2010 10:55 PM EDT reply actions
Sad thing is (because I really like Campbell), he just seems like one of those guys that will go on another five years trying to recapture the glory.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 16, 2010 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions
You did as good a job as any describing Ortiz and why he is dislikable. Trust me I want to like him I really do but he just reminds me of the type of NFL wide reciever who drops a pass and then falls down clutching his ankle. Who knows if the guy is faking it but it just seems odd.
With Ortiz he’s never faked anything so much as he seems like he’s never pushed himself where fans like to see athletes, especially those with great talent, push themselves.
"It's Manuway or the Highway" - tlo
I don’t understand. Ortiz wins his fight pretty easily and is getting criticize for not going for the knock out. Despite facing an opponent who’s only been knocked out once (the stoppage in the 2nd Peden fight was terrible). And that was due to his own stupidity. Yet I read about the other fight and see praised being thrown on A Mere Con. Despite him yet again having fought another opponent incapable of hurting him. I don’t get it.
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
Ortiz wins his fight pretty easily
Very easily.
and is getting criticize for not going for the knock out.
That’s not the only thing I’m criticizing, and not the biggest, either.
Despite [Khan] yet again having fought another opponent incapable of hurting him.
Ortiz yet again faced a fighter who posed no legitimate threat as well. I wasn’t totally sure that Campbell had nothing left until the fight, but it was not a foreign thought, and Golden Boy’s matchmakers did know. Their wins on Saturday aren’t that different, I just feel that Khan was more impressive.
You’re not a Khan fan. I’m not an Ortiz fan. There’s not much to “get.”
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 17, 2010 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Ortiz went in there and did his job. I thought it was a good showing, albeit against a good-but-faded fighter. He moved well, put his punches together well, stayed out of danger and got the win. I doubt the plan was ever to try to force a knockout on someone as rugged as Nate. It didn’t seem like he was doing anything but following a gameplan “Stay mobile, Keep him at bay, work the body, don’t get goaded into a war.” I thought it was a pretty mature, controlled performance. No he didn’t make any big statements but I don’t think that was in their playbook for the evening. Victor is still rebuilding himself a bit from the Maidana fight.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Maybe it’s a tactical decision. Maybe instead of being the bash ‘em up slugger he used to be, Ortiz’s team looked at their fighter after the Maidana fight and said, “We need to box more.” That would be wise.
And that’s not the only thing I’m criticizing, and not the biggest, either.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 17, 2010 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, there’s a key difference between what you said and what I am saying. I’m not saying his team is trying to permanently alter his style. I’m saying the fight plan – for this one fight – might have been to do exactly what he did. He made Nate look his age, put in enough work to win every round and got the win. This might not signify anything more than “okay let’s be safe and patient about this one, get past it, and then move on.”
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
I’d argue that Nate was going to look his age no matter what Ortiz did. The man had no speed whatsoever and the trigger jammed repeatedly.
My thoughts are more about his future. Great, you beat Nate Campbell and guaranteed another TV date. But can I see him really being a serious test for the best in the division? Nah. If he fights like he used to, he’s going to get hit, and getting hit didn’t serve him well last time. If he fights like he did against Campbell, I don’t see him out-boxing a Bradley or Alexander, because they’re not going to have the problems Campbell had.
I’ve just never really been a believer in Ortiz, and despite his dominant win over Campbell, nothing about that changed, and if anything, the thought became more concrete. Despite all the hype and the Golden Boy and HBO machines propping him up, he’s a talented guy with an up-and-down mental game. When the going’s easy, he looks great. When it’s not, he looks like a pretender.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 17, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Although, I think it is fair to say right now that you did predict that Nate would win, and he instead got beaten every round. A little side dish of crow wouldn’t be totally out of order here. Or, at least, it’s a little much to be saying “the thought became more concrete” that Victor Ortiz is not impressive, or that he can’t win against top fighters in his division. In my humble opinion, of course…
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
I never get this. I picked Campbell to win so I should be overly impressed with Ortiz beating Campbell, who clearly wasn’t the fighter I thought he was? Did anyone really think after three rounds that Nate Campbell was a challenge and that this was anything more than savvy matchmaking by Golden Boy to prop up a fighter whose stock plummeted last summer in an effort to further his marketability?
Ortiz won. It was the best win on his record. He dominated. I gave one round to Campbell and it was half a charity round in the 10th because Ortiz spent most of that round (wisely) on his bike. I’m a lot more interested in what actually happens than what I think might happen, really, and that stands with Ortiz going forward. I may be a doubter, but I still would like to see it actually proven. I don’t cast aside the notion that I could be incredibly wrong about Ortiz and that he’ll surprise me, and if he does, good. I’m not hanging my hat on him being what I expect him to be. I like good fights and good fighters, and if Ortiz turns out to be one of the best of the crop and on par with the other top guys, great. It just means another really good fighter to watch.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 17, 2010 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't think he put his punches together all that well
He wasn’t really throwing more than 2 punches at a time, and when he did, he was still leaving himself wide open to get countered. Nate just didn’t have the ability to take advantage. On the positive side, he did a good job of preventing Nate from getting inside, although Nate also did a horrible job of cutting off the ring, like he had no clue how to do it against a southpaw.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I just feel that Khan was more impressive.
I don’t. As far as I’m concern Con is just threading water. All this talk about him becoming a better fighter and improving under Roach is just that. Talk. How can anybody tell? He’s fast now. He was fast than. He has good power now. He had good power than. Con has always possessed great skills. There’s no denying that. His biggest problem was him being able to brush his teeth without knocking himself out in the process. His chin is his biggest handicap. And it still is. His own team knows it. So how is it that the man can improved and has become a better fighter if he’s avoiding facing a fighter who can punch? Con doesn’t need to show off his speed or power. He’s always had that. He needs to show he can beat a fighter who can hurt him. And he can’t do that if he don’t fight them. Yes I heard the post fight interview about him fighting Maidana. I doubt that. We’ll see Con-Willy Blain before we see Con-Maidana.
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
by Violent Demise on May 17, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
This is not a sarcastic question
I’m actually rather interested (because I haven’t followed his career at all), how did Khan get this reputation for having an incredibly flawed glass jaw? Apart from the Prescott knockout, are there any other glaring signs? And I’m not being a smart ass or sarcastic, I really would like to know the answer.
Willie Limond knocked him down, and Limond has no pop.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 17, 2010 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Because the style he fights with now protects his chin much better
without sacrificing much by way of offense. Sure, I could be wrong, but he certainly looks better.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
His biggest problem was him being able to brush his teeth without knocking himself out in the process.
I may not agree with you entirely, but this quote made me laugh.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 18, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Did anyone really think after three rounds that Nate Campbell was a challenge and that this was anything more than savvy matchmaking by Golden Boy to prop up a fighter whose stock plummeted last summer in an effort to further his marketability?
Some of us thought all of that before the first bell rung, is all I’m saying.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
And I’m not trying to say something like “Ha Ha you picked wrong therefore you don’t know what you’re talking about, etc.” I’m just saying that it looked like the kind of fight it was supposed to be, and Ortiz did almost everything right in it. Nate could not mount an offense, and seems past it (and, really, “over it” weight wise), but he is still a rugged guy who could catch a young tiger napping. Victor fought a smart fight, and will move on in rebuilding himself. HBO hurt him by jamming him down everyone’s throats as “the next big thing” as much as he hurt himself with his weird statements and then excuses after Maidana. But he looked pretty good in there. I was always a sucker for good body work, and he did some business that visibily hurt and ebbed Nate.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
He did look good. I don’t disagree with that part at all. I believe he’s very talented, too, and showed some genuine class in the fight. If Ortiz falters, it won’t be talent that failed him. Talent-wise, I think he’s better than the “Vicious” Victor that HBO and Golden Boy were bonering out over.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 17, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
And for whatever it’s worth, I’d like to see an Ortiz-Lamont Peterson fight. I have my doubts Top Rank would take it, but I think that one would be interesting. It’d give a better gauge on Ortiz’s speed (which seems solid but might lean a little one way or the other) and Peterson deserves another good fight, too. I’d rather see that than Ortiz-Paulie. I’m a big Paulie fan, but I’d take Ortiz without much trouble in that one.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 17, 2010 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions

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