What We Learned: Khan, Malignaggi, Katsidis, Mitchell and More
This weekend's slate of fights gave us good insight as to the current standing of a whole lot of name fighters. I think there are a lot of things worth discussing, so let's get on it.
Amir Khan's Speed
Khan's dominant win over Paulie Malignaggi wasn't a shock, but it was a treat to watch. In the past, I'd said that Khan had top five handspeed in the sport, and believed it, but it was more feeling than fact. The guys Khan had been fighting in the UK were largely quite slow, even Andriy Kotelnik, who is a solid and technically sound fighter, but no speedster and not a tricky guy at all.
I figured Paul Malignaggi would give us a real barometer. Malignaggi isn't incredibly fast, but he's got B+ speed on his best nights and is far more awkward and tough to get a handle on than Kotelnik, who is more fundamentally strong than Malignaggi.
The difference in speed was astounding. This was more eye-opening for me than Floyd Mayweather's speed advantage over Shane Mosley on May 1, in part because I truly believed the speed in that one wouldn't even be close. The speed here wasn't particularly close either, but unlike Mosley, Malignaggi still looked like he had above-average quickness. Khan, meanwhile, looked frighteningly fast of hand in there, to the point that I think you could read on Malignaggi's face early that the speed was surprising for him. I'm sure Paulie knew Khan was fast, but figured he'd be closer to equal than he was. Malignaggi wasn't bad last night, but could do nothing with Khan, who had an advantage everywhere but chin, and Paulie never even really touched Khan.
This was an indication, again, that Khan made a brilliant move going to Freddie Roach. A lot of trainers may have asked Khan to sacrifice some of what he was good at it in order to protect his one glaring weakness. Manny Steward has done a great job protecting Wladimir Klitschko's chin and turning him into a near-untouchable force at heavyweight, and the Roach/Khan teaming is doing something similar. But Freddie knows that speed kills, and when you have as much of it as Khan does, you don't want to give away that advantage. So Roach has Khan using his blinding speed to full effect, and just being smarter. Kotelnik and Malignaggi both gave it a good effort, and weren't even close. They couldn't deal with the speed. Dmitriy Salita, the fighter Khan faced between those two, would have been demoralized if he hadn't gone down on the first punch landed. Can you imagine how that would've looked if Salita had lasted six or seven rounds?
As far as pure speed of hand goes across the sport, I think I'd go like this for a top five. This is kind of off the cuff and certainly open for debate, and I'd love to hear your top guys, too:
- Floyd Mayweather Jr.
- Amir Khan
- Manny Pacquiao
- Yuriorkis Gamboa
- Zab Judah
I think 1-2 is close, too. Mayweather, as incredible as he is, doesn't have quite the speed he used to. For pure hand speed, I do think Khan is faster than Pacquiao, but Pacquiao is obviously a better overall fighter. Gamboa is a storm unleashed when he gets going, and Judah does still have speed, if nothing else. I don't think there are a lot of exceptionally fast guys out there, and I think the speed of a lot of guys tends to get overrated. There are lot more guys close to Malignaggi speed than Khan speed, I believe.
Michael and Kevin
Kevin Mitchell never had a shot. That's with hindsight, of course, but once Mitchell and Michael Katsidis were moving around next to one another, the difference in them was obvious. Katsidis was relaxed and focused, and seemed to want to do early damage. Mitchell was a little tight, and just looked tiny next to Katsidis. Katsidis has that big, full frame at 135, and Mitchell ... he's one of those guys that isn't soft, really, and I'm not saying you need a six-pack to be a good boxer, because you don't, but he just looked like 135 wasn't a weight where his body is fit to excel yet.
I'm not writing off Mitchell. He's talented and is only 25. But if he can still make 130, he might want to consider going back down there. Guys like Katsidis are going to bust him up, and I don't think Mitchell is someone who will be content to stay on the UK circuit and be a big fish in a small pond. He clearly has world stage aspirations.
Mitchell, at the least, will need to scale it back. Go less than Katsidis, but still more than the Ignacio Mendozas of the world. There are a lot of guys at 135, since that's likely where he'll be staying, who fit that mold. David Diaz might make sense. Diaz is a former titlist, always brings a good fight, and is rugged and sturdy. He's not nearly as strong as Katsidis, but he's more durable than Mendoza, and more well-rounded than Breidis Prescott.
Katsidis blew Mitchell away. Mitchell was just not going to do anything with that guy. He didn't have the power, didn't have the size, didn't have the ability to back Katsidis off of him. When Katsidis wanted to, he bullied Mitchell with ease. Katsidis has his limitations, obviously, but he's among the very best in a frankly shallow 135-pound division. Mitchell just isn't quite there yet.
Victor Ortiz
Yeah, I did an article last night where I was pretty harsh on the Ortiz-Campbell fight, and about the potential of both guys going forward. Campbell's done. I don't want to drive that into the ground, but he's not top 10 or even top 15 at 140 at this point. He's just not a contender at this weight.
But I like to look at two sides of the coin, and I tried to do that a little even when somewhat dismissing Ortiz's performance. If they're working with a new style, which may well be the case, it's smart. You have to accentuate the positives in any fighter. They all have weaknesses. Floyd Mayweather isn't a big puncher, so why would he get into trades with guys who can bang? Why not just embarrass them with speed and smarts? Shane Mosley was never a great boxer, so Mosley rarely tried to straight-up box people. He always had that idea that he wanted to get them exchanging. Bernard Hopkins was never fast, so he didn't try to get into speed showcases with guys, instead he roughed them up and made them play his game. Amir Khan's chin sucks, so he's keeping it out of the game as much as he can.
Ortiz maybe doesn't respond to being hit cleanly so well. Look, Maidana can rip with his punches, so that's nothing to be truly ashamed of. But if Ortiz doesn't deal well with being hit, then try to keep guys from hitting him. I still think guys that get to him will crack him, and that'll always be a problem for Victor. He's not going to be a superstar.
But he can have a really good career. Being imperfect, whatever your imperfection is, doesn't mean you should turn tail and get out of boxing. It just means hide your weaknesses and accentuate your strengths. Ortiz does punch in combination very well. He does hit pretty hard, even as it looks like they're sacrificing blunt power to do other things. And against Campbell, though I think Ortiz should have tried to finish the old man given that the old man wasn't going to do anything with the fight, he showed discipline and you can say he didn't try to do more than he had to. It's a good habit to learn for the tougher fights, admittedly.
When I said in the comments thread of that article last night that Ortiz has more talent than he realizes, what I meant was that Ortiz is a guy who can be a different fighter than he is, and maybe he's getting there. Maybe they're convincing him he's not "Vicious" Victor, that he's a boxer-puncher and should use his head in there. If so, he'll be in for a strong career. He'll never be a top of the food chain guy, but he'll always be around. And if they build his confidence up again to a point where he just forgets about the Maidana loss, he's got game-changing power in the reserves, and can turn a fight he's losing on a dime.
I am not a big Ortiz fan, and I'm not in love with his talent. But he is a very interesting fighter to me. If he wasn't, I'd never say anything about him. His career could go in a lot of different directions.
Thanks for the Memories, Danny
Danny Williams' career came to an end on Saturday when he was stopped in two by Derek Chisora. Williams was out of shape, had "trained himself" for the fight, and had no interest in being in the ring. Chisora does have some world potential. There are a lot of things to work on for him, and he hasn't gotten the fights yet to really improve in the ring. I don't think he's much different than he was when he fought Sam Sexton in 2008, while Sexton has dramatically improved. That could be a good big boy throwdown in the UK later this year.
The Sky team said it was sad that Danny went out the way he did. I disagree, and respectfully so. I think he went out perfectly. When Danny Williams was on his game, he could really do some special things. But he was about the most frustratingly inconsistent guy in boxing during his known years. One fight he'd look great, or reborn, and the next one he'd lose to Albert Sosnowski. The beating he took from Vitali Klitschko was ugly, and no matter how shot Tyson was, he'll always have a win over Mike Tyson. He was fascinating, in many ways. He had some huge highs and some amazing lows. And he left a lot of memories. Good luck, Danny, and enjoy your retirement.
Speaking of Retirement...
Giacobbe Fragomeni's one-sided loss to Krzysztof Wlodarczyk should probably be it for the battling Italian. Fragomeni was a class act in the post-fight, and would go out with losses to Wlodarczyk and Erdei, both entertaining fights. As Brick said, Fragomeni has gotten a lot out of a little. He's not a big puncher, he's short and stocky, doesn't have great speed. He's tough and he's always game, and he had a title run. At 40, he's not the aggressive guy he used to be, and he's just past it.
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It's tough to define 'tougher' for a guy like Khan
whose gameplan revolves exclusively around handspeed and footwork. Malignaggi, for all of his flaws, seemed to be a reasonably good foil for him, with a great jab and enough speed to keep Amir off-balance. If you put a big lumbering slugger in with Khan right now, he’s going to dance around him and win a landslide decision.
I mean, to my mind nobody’s saying that Khan is the greatest in the world or anything like that. But based on tools, skill and gameplan, he’s certainly evolved into a champion-caliber fighter without too many equals.
It was a fairly masterful performance over Paulie. I still couldn’t help but think “If he had ANY power this thing would have been over a half dozen times already!”
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
What do people think on talk of Malignaggi retiring?
As far as I’m concerned, I still think he beats a lot of good fighters below the absolute top level, but he’s said a lot about not wanting to be an opponent or a punching bag. Will be interesting to see what he does.
"The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic"
I can see it. His hands are never going to get better and though I still think he’s a top 10 guy at 140 (the division is not nearly as super-loaded as HBO is making it out to be, it’s just deep with good fighters and has some really exciting possibilities up top with young fighters), what’s he really going to do?
Malignaggi can’t beat Bradley, Alexander, Khan. He might be able to beat Maidana. I think a fight with Lamont Peterson could be interesting to gauge Peterson post-Bradley. But if he doesn’t feel like there’s anything more to accomplish, better to get out while the gettin’s good, so to speak. Paulie I think will always have a job in boxing somewhere. He’s smarter than he often acts (much smarter, in fact), and he can talk, so maybe commentary. He could be a really nice addition to B.A.D. with Papa and Max, I think. I could see Paulie being a combination expert and everyman, good at breaking down a fight and willing to be honest.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 16, 2010 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
They'll need to drug him
In order to get him to slow down, but I could see this too.
by The Boxer Rebellion on May 16, 2010 12:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think Maidana would make sense
If Khan avoids him. Ortiz is going to need an opponent as well.
by The Boxer Rebellion on May 16, 2010 12:36 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I was thinking about Ortiz-Malignaggi last night. Chances are Ortiz wins because he’s just so much more than Paulie physically, but it might be worthwhile if Paulie’s up to it.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 16, 2010 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Paulie could convince Ortiz that Ortiz isn’t that much more than Paulie physically by talking a loud game. Seriously. If Ortiz has any sort of doubt then he’s going to fight tenitively and a tenitive fighter can’t let his hands go the way he needs. I would really like to see this fight. It could also be a make or break for both of them.
"It's Manuway or the Highway" - tlo
Yeah I agree with you about Paulie being a smart guy. He probably would be a good commentator, but I still feel like he’s got a bit more to accomplish as a fighter. I don’t think Ortiz is a particularly smart fighter, no matter how good he looked against a finished Nate, and Paulie could really frustrate him into losing a decision there.
"The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic"
by Oli Goldstein on May 16, 2010 1:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yes, I agree. We discussed this in an earlier thread as well. I think Malignaggi would be a great commentator as far as content goes, but his one glaring weakness is that voice. Ugh, that douchey voice.
Malignaggi’s power is to his boxing as Malignaggi’s voice would be to his commentating.
It’d cause him great problems, but he’d make the most out of what he’s got! Pretty much sums Paulie up as a fighter!
"The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic"
by Oli Goldstein on May 16, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
No reason for him to
Unless he feels like there’s no point in fighting if he can’t be the champ at 140. There’s plenty of money to be made as a high-level gatekeeper at 140 or against 135 pounders at a catchweight, a la Diaz.
by The Boxer Rebellion on May 16, 2010 12:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He's gone about as far as he's going to go.
I hope he’s smart now. If there is one big payday left, maybe. …
by Don From Prov on May 18, 2010 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
As one of the three resident Berto supporters here, I’d put him in the mix speed-wise. But your list is hard to argue with. Having not seen Jab in a while, I’m not sure where I’d put him.
by The Boxer Rebellion on May 16, 2010 1:05 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Zab
Damn iPhone autocorrect.
by The Boxer Rebellion on May 16, 2010 1:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I saw Zab was at the fight last night… scouting possibly? Didn’t Zab jump into the ring during Alexanders post-fight inteview in the Urango fight? And then didnt Alexander’s camp call him out, and he wanted a “tune-up” fight??? I dont know if there were any tune-up fighters last night but i’m sure Paulie and Galaxy Warrior Campbell are possible opponents.
by njstateofmind on May 16, 2010 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
On Mitchell
Warren and Tibbs are said to be pissed as Mitchell didn’t commit to training as he might have, doing other gigs and shit. I agree he does have a big future in boxing still
by Sweet science on May 16, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I was thoroughly impressed by Khan’s handspeed. Their styles are different, but would Pacquiao’s chance of beating Mayweather improve if Roach secured Khan as a sparring partner?
I’ll guarantee Khan would be paid handsomely to spar with Manny for that fight. They’ve sparred before, of course. Similarly, I’m sure Mayweather would give his old semi-pal Zab a call for sparring, too.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 16, 2010 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Hatton landed at ease against Paulie, he’s a sitting target who doesn’t throw punches when his head dropped.
by clickonme321 on May 16, 2010 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought that Khan already sparred with Manny - anyone know for sure?
Don't tell me I play bum notes - I KNOW!
by Randy Loathsome on May 17, 2010 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions
They’ve sparred before, of course.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 17, 2010 2:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Cheers. I always did write before I could read
Don't tell me I play bum notes - I KNOW!
by Randy Loathsome on May 17, 2010 2:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I think sparring was one of the first things they did when Khan came over to work with Roach. I think Freddie wanted to see what Khan really had. I think there was footage of them working together on 24/7, too.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 17, 2010 3:54 AM EDT up reply actions
That rings a bell with me now!
What it is to be old.
Don't tell me I play bum notes - I KNOW!
by Randy Loathsome on May 17, 2010 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Naysayers and Unbelievers
Two big mouth fighters that was dis-respecting Pac got schooled today. Paulie . . my goodness . . he got beat by Khan on his own game, trying that slick boxing (i.e. and Khan fully indicated that they followed the plan of Roach . . yup, people forget about Roach being at the helm of the Pacquiao machine), yes Paulie was beaten by a better boxer, period. Don’t tell me his going to claim PEDs, HGH thing again . . as he was alluding to . . against Roach and his boxers. Truth is, superior training, excellent strategy from Roach, sparring with good opponents in the Wildcard gym, etc – HARDWORK OFTEN WINS THE DAY.
Then, you have this Mitchell guy . . saying, Pac is overrated . . overrated our Ass . . he got himself TKO’d in 3 rounds.
So much for this naysayers and unbelievers . . disrespecting the P4P king, Roach, Khan and Ariza.
i read this a couple times and can’t make 2 cents of it.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
.
by sonofapsycho on May 16, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
So it's a karmic thing?
If I somehow disrespect Manny, will I get my ass kicked soon?
If I am good I could add years to my life / I would rather add some life to my years.
I weight 160! Stay away from me Manny!
If I am good I could add years to my life / I would rather add some life to my years.
by Jay Preece on May 16, 2010 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hate to do this due to our excellent Filipino posters
But you’re Filipino, right?
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 16, 2010 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
It actually seems like it could be.
There are certain grammatical errors that Filipinos make and other phraseology they use that seem to pop up here.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
That's what I was thinking too
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 17, 2010 6:19 AM EDT up reply actions
khan looked good. better than i thought he was but hes still going to get kevin mitchelled once he faces another guy who can punch.
same goes for ortiz. beating up an old and bloated former champion really proves nothing for ortiz. he’s very very fragile.
good job by golden boy matchmakers though. very screwed indeed.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
.
I don’t think the boxing world learned very much about Sergei Dzinziruk this weekend, but I did. I’d never seen him fight before, and even though he was in there with a semi-can, I thought it was quite impressive.
I don’t think the guy is unbeatable or anything. He struck me as being very good but not quite an “A” fighter. But man, that jab is a thing of beauty.
I realize that many would differ with me on this, but I actually found it pretty enjoyable to watch. I’m not so hard-core of a boxing connoisseur as to enjoy highly technical defensive fighting, but I do think that highly technical offensive fighting can be fun. I would say Dzinziruk is sort of like the prog-rock of the medium weight classes: not for mass consumption, but for serious fans only. (I’m not saying all serious fans will like him, just that anyone who likes him will be a serious fan. Or Ukrainian, I guess.)
Dzinziruk-Angulo should be forthcoming
That might get him more exposure. I expect Dzinziruk to shut him out. When Shaw signed Dzinziruk, I think he was hoping that Dzinziruk had faded from the layoff, so that Angulo could beat him. Now, he promotes both guys, but Angulo has little chance of winning.
Down the line, Dzinziruk-Cintron could be interesting.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Do you think he would change up the plan and intentionally try to keep them apart, now that he’s seen him fight?
Maybe
Angulo might not let him though. It would mean that Angulo would need to give up his interim title.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I suppose he could try to get Angulo a fight against Foreman or Spinks instead (if they win their next fights), so that Angulo could get a title to replace his interim title. Not that those guys are necessarily such great style matchups for Angulo either. The whole division is packed with “cutie” style fighters! (I’m thinking Martinez would be an even worse matchup for Angulo than Dzinziruk would be.)
The conventional wisdom is that pressure fighters beat boxers but lose to sluggers, isn’t it? But for some reason, it seems to be the reverse for Angulo.
I don’t think Khan will lose to just any big puncher. We’ll see if this feeling wears off as time passes, but for now, I’m starting to lean in the direction of favoring Khan over Maidana.
In thinking about this question, it’s important to remember the distinction between punch resistance and hittability. We all know that Khan has very little punch resistance. We also all know that Malignaggi had very little ability to test Khan’s punch resistance because of Malignaggi’s lack of power.
But just because Malignaggi couldn’t test Khan’s punch resistance doesn’t mean that we didn’t learn anything about Khan in this fight. There was more than one reason why Paulie couldn’t put Khan down – one was lack of power, but the other was that he couldn’t catch up with him! If you’re going to get to Khan’s chin, you’re going to need both of those skills, not just one. Although Paulie might have lacked the ability to crack Khan’s chin, his ability to touch Khan’s chin is greater than that of a lot of boxers, and he still couldn’t do it. In fact, the HBO Punch Zone stats said that Paulie landed a punch on Khan’s chin a total of ONE TIME over the course of the entire fight.
If Paulie could only touch Khan’s chin once over ten-plus rounds, Maidana could very well touch Khan’s chin zero times over all twelve rounds. And if that happens, it won’t matter how much power Maidana has. Plus, Khan might not need to stay away from Maidana for all twelve rounds, because Khan has the ability to stop him inside the distance. I wouldn’t bet money on it, but Khan is not feather fisted and I wouldn’t be shocked if he were to pull that off.
I agree
I reckon that Khan routs Maidana.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 16, 2010 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I reckon that Maidana wrecks Khan ;)
by The Boxer Rebellion on May 16, 2010 8:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Oddly enough,
the two are not mutually exclusive.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
I think people forget that Maidana doesn’t JUST have to hit that chin. I mean, Paulie couldn’t hit Khan hard enough to knock the wind out of him, but I’d bet Maidana could make him slow down…. Any punch Marcos lands on Khan will hurt him, and for the first few rounds he’d simply hit him anywhere and everywhere he could. Khan would NOT look as fresh after 6 rounds in there with Maidana as he did with Paulie.
And then… if he was still there after 6, and showing the wear and tear that comes with getting hit by the guy that (I concur with SC on this one) is the single nastiest puncher in the sport, he’ll be getting closer and closer to that lapse in concentration, that slight tiring that means he doesn’t get out so quickly after throwing, or snap his left hand back after landing the jab, and BANG! Maidana will knock him out.
I suppose what I’m saying is: Maidana doesn’t need to hit the Road-Runner with a cruise missile early. He’ll do what Paulie couldn’t, and knock the wind out of Khan, and when Khan tires, and is hurting, sooner or later that opportunity will arise and Maidana will do what Maidana does.
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
Sure, it's a valid point
that Khan is hit more often than he might be since he has such speed, but with Freddy Roach in his corner, I would guess that the odds of him getting hit decrease with the increasing power of his opponent.
Still, as taco pal says, it’s a fair point.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on May 17, 2010 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Khan did what I expected him to do
But impressed me nonetheless. It means he’s as good as I thought he was. Now the test is going to be whether he can stay away from a swarmer with a punch. Maidana is slow enough that I think Khan can completely dominate him if he stays focused, but he literally will have NO room for error. A couple of mistakes, and it will be lights out Mr. Khan.
If Mitchell can get back to 130, he could do very well in a weak super featherweight division. But he really didn’t look like a lightweight. And frankly, I’m surprised he was blown out as quickly as he was. I thought Katsidis would win, but not like that.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
He didn't look like he coudl take a punch at 135
Katsidis is a good puncher, but the way Mitchell was so easily affected by those shots was surprising to me.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 16, 2010 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Khan can clean up the division. But I think he needs to move up to 147. He looked very big last night.
He says he’s making 140 no problem. He just came up from 135.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 16, 2010 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Guy's chin is suspect at 135.
You want him to go fight welters?
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on May 17, 2010 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
And he will get tested big time at LWW
If not against Maidana and maybe Ortiz, but definatley with Alexander and Bradley
by Sweet science on May 16, 2010 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it's too tight
to make a prediciton on that just yet. But with Khans chin I probably would make him the underdog in both of them
by Sweet science on May 16, 2010 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
There was a fanpost on
Khan and his ability to crack the states not so long ago,
anyone that said no he can’t change their minds after last night?
Khan is the man. He is smooth and powerful. Well trained and focused and follows his corner's instructions perfectly.
He is the real deal.
This has been the most life-affirming thing for me, to know you're valued and then show your resolve to not just curl up and die,
--Nick Charles
by The Midnight Rambler on May 16, 2010 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions
And he's one good shot
From losing every fight he’s in. Can a guy this tragically flawed really reach the heights if the sport? Going to be fun to see.
by The Boxer Rebellion on May 16, 2010 8:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
"tragically flawed?" How?
This has been the most life-affirming thing for me, to know you're valued and then show your resolve to not just curl up and die,
--Nick Charles
by The Midnight Rambler on May 16, 2010 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
i imagine its khans terrible chin
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
.
by sonofapsycho on May 16, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
didn’t change my mind at all.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
.
by sonofapsycho on May 16, 2010 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions
your new avatar sux
This has been the most life-affirming thing for me, to know you're valued and then show your resolve to not just curl up and die,
--Nick Charles
by The Midnight Rambler on May 16, 2010 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
wrong
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
.
by sonofapsycho on May 16, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Because he beat Malignaggi?
Hatton beat Malignaggi, too. How did his conquest of the new continent go?
We’ll talk if he beats Bradley or Alexander.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on May 17, 2010 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
I have always like Katsidis, He is another Gatti. He has that electricity and he connects with the fans. ow can you not like him?
This has been the most life-affirming thing for me, to know you're valued and then show your resolve to not just curl up and die,
--Nick Charles
by The Midnight Rambler on May 16, 2010 6:20 PM EDT reply actions
bcoz he breaks the heart's
of British fight fans :)
by Sweet science on May 16, 2010 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Good one.
This has been the most life-affirming thing for me, to know you're valued and then show your resolve to not just curl up and die,
--Nick Charles
by The Midnight Rambler on May 16, 2010 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Blight?
I believe that’s a form of Potato Famine.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 17, 2010 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Left off the -y from blighty. I guess blightinator would work too
by Waldo Rastel on May 17, 2010 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions
It's unpossible
Katsidis is great. He’s one of my 3 favorite active fighters.
by The Boxer Rebellion on May 16, 2010 8:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
how
This has been the most life-affirming thing for me, to know you're valued and then show your resolve to not just curl up and die,
--Nick Charles
by The Midnight Rambler on May 16, 2010 6:20 PM EDT reply actions
Amir Khan - fed with golden spoon
Speed alone doesn’t make you a good fighter. Amir’s technique is very amateurish and doesn’t have ring generalist. If ever there was a protected fighter then he’s top of the list. Ask…who has he fought to win his world title?
1. Osie Fagan (part time barman)
2. Barrera (badly cut early in the fight)
3. Kotelnik (very low knockout stats)
4. Salita (ranked outside top 20)
5. Malignaggi (5 knockouts in career)
The opposition listed is weak to say the least. People need to wake up, Amir was blown away in 59 secs by an average boxer in Prescott. Do you ever remember a great fighter being knocked out like this early in their career?
I don’t understand the business case for Golden Boy signing him. Sky box office dropped him like a hot potato – he simply doesn’t do the numbers. In the UK he is very unpopular simply because the public don’t rate him. You can’t fool PPV buyers.
Amir khan doesn’t have fans like your Ricky Hatton’s and Pacman’s. With that in mind how can he be a big name in the USA, he doesn’t have fans and isn’t marketable.
Am I an Amir khan basher? no, I’m a hater of having to accept mediocrity.
Do you ever remember a great fighter being knocked out like this early in their career
I swear Manny was stopped early on in his career, but forgive me if im wrong
by Sweet science on May 16, 2010 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep, by a nobody called Rustico Torrecampo. There’s plenty of good fighters who’ve been stopped early in their careers, this guy’s talking rubbish.
"The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic"
by Oli Goldstein on May 16, 2010 7:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
He lost in round three with a body punch which winded him. Body punch and chin are different parts of the body. Do you understand the difference?
by clickonme321 on May 16, 2010 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I've watched that KO a dozen times
And it was on the chin. He nailed Pac on the chin, and the follow through also hit him in the body,
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
hes confusing the 2 knockout loses by manny.
one was on the chin and the other was a body shot.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
.
by sonofapsycho on May 16, 2010 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I have watched oit over 100 times and agree that it was a chin shot.
This has been the most life-affirming thing for me, to know you're valued and then show your resolve to not just curl up and die,
--Nick Charles
by The Midnight Rambler on May 16, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
name me other good fighters knocked spark out early in their career? go ahead and make yourself look stupid infront of everyone here.
by clickonme321 on May 16, 2010 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
@ clickonment321
Your the one wo’s asking name of great fighter but.. when they gave you the best answer, you simple call them stupid?
name me other good fighters knocked spark out early in their career? go ahead and make yourself look stupid infront of everyone here.
Homocide Hank Armstrong – perhaps THE GREATEST fighter who ever lived – was kayoed in his debut bout by Al Sorvino. Are you going to call me stupid, now?
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
by jrok on May 16, 2010 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
You're just plain stupid.
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
Really? I thought I was Ann Wolfe.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
You could well be. lol
I’ve got the Hardly Boys on the case to find out who you are….
“Oooooh… I’m getting a clue….”
“Oooh… I’ve got a raging clue right now….”
“Well… let’s follow that clue….. is it pointing to the left?”
lol
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
Right...
Speed alone doesn’t make you a good fighter. Amir’s technique is very amateurish and doesn’t have ring generalist
Saying that Khan’s technique is amateurish is rather odd. He fights with a very high level of technical ability, as taught by Roach. Speed is certainly not the only thing Khan has; he has good power, ring smarts, a great corner, and simply excellent discipline during his fights.
Amir was blown away in 59 secs by an average boxer in Prescott.
Yes, his chin is terrible, but he showed how he can neutralise this issue against Malignaggi through how little Malignaggi hit him. Combine this with the fact that Malignaggi is a fast and clever boxer, and it seems unlikely that many others will have much more success finding that jaw.
In the UK he is very unpopular simply because the public don’t rate him
That is only a small part of why he was dropped, his attitude was a far greater factor here. His attitude does indeed suck, and Brits generally respond very poorly to arrogance from their country men. Also, there is the very real race issue which we absolutely should not get into, I shall only mention it and no more.
You can’t fool PPV buyers.
Mayweather – Marquez?
how can he be a big name in the USA, he doesn’t have fans and isn’t marketable.
Well it was his first fight in the USA, he can hardly be expected to have fans there already! I also don’t think that his marketability, or lack of it, reflects upon his ability as a fighter in the slightest.
I’m a hater of having to accept mediocrity
Khan is not mediocre. He has a shockingly bad chin, and is very, very talented in the rest of his boxing. This is clear to see.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 16, 2010 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He is mediocre, he doesn’t have a knockout punch, his technique is poor.
by clickonme321 on May 16, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Great rebuttal
Seeing as you haven’t actually answered any of my points at all I guess you, well, um insert insult here
I’m off to bed.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 16, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
you say Amir’s fights with high technical ability because Freddie taught him? my friend technical ability you don’t gain from being with a trainer for 5 mins as in the case with Khan-Roach. Besides when did Roach become a great trainer I’m a Manny Pac fan, Honestly, I’m objective enough to point out Manny doesn’t have great technique. You have to have knowledge of boxing to be able to see that.
What’s your point here about his chin? you can’t hide a chin for 12 rounds!!!! are you serious? Malignaggi stopped throwing punches!! this is too easy.
Not the only reason why Sky dropped him, his attitude wasn’t right? well have you heard of Naseem Hamed? he was arrogant and cocky, Sky didn’t drop him, you know why? because Hamed was entertaining. In Boxing you have to be exciting and entertaining to have fans and do big PPV numbers. Sadly Amir doesn’t posses neither. I agree race is an issue but what makes Amir think they’ll like him in USA. Has people forgotten there’s a war in Pakistan where the Yanks are involved. Shit gets deeper.
This point wasn’t worth respondinf to, to hell with it, I will. Marquez and Mayweather are worldwide known fighters, Marquez has the following of Mexico. On paper the fight looks competitive, Marquez is a good fighter and so is Mayweather. Of course people will buy into it.
Yes marketing ability reflects heavily on your fighting ability/style. More so in the States than anywhere else. To do big PPV numbers and have great following you have to entertain the American public. BOTTOM LINE. Boxing and HBO are in the entertainment business. Manny, Tyson, Gatti, Roy Jones, did this and they were popular. Also, you need a knockout punch the fighters named have/had the knockout punch. Amir DOES NOT HAVE KNOCKOUT PUNCH. Bhop is a prime example of someone who does low PPV numbers because of his defensive style.
by clickonme321 on May 16, 2010 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You're right pal
Responding would be totally pointless, unless I wanted to feel bad about the state of humanity.
I suggest we just leave him to his hate.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 17, 2010 6:23 AM EDT up reply actions
The thing I love about the internet
is how you really do have to live and die by your own ability to reason and communicate. Places like this are havens for people who really do want to do nothing but have unfettered conversations about the topics they love.
I’m not a massive boxing fan, but because of the comments and insight provided by the regulars here, I’m watching more and more boxing.
I just shrug it off when I get a comment or thread that hits me sideways. Nowhere is perfect, and ultimately people want to be with similar people so either we alter our behavior to fit in where we find ourselves, or we move on elsewhere.
I really do love the internet.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on May 17, 2010 6:30 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
There are at least 5 hall of famers who suffered first round knockouts early in their careers
Can’t remember names, but I remember looking at it once
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
A few who were KOed early in fights with nobodies early in their careers
Alexis Arguello
Hank Armstrong
Joe Brown
Miguel Canto
Billy Conn
Pipino Cuevas
Manny Pacquiao
Eusebio Pedrozia
Sandy Saddler
Max Schmeling
Fritzie Zivic
I can pretty much guarantee you that Khan’s chin is worse than ALL of those guys, and I’m sure it’s possible that one or two of those weren’t legitimate for various reasons. But there’s no reason he can’t find ways to compensate for his crappy chin, and it also means that his fights should be more exciting, knowing that he could literally get knocked out at any time.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I repeat in 59 secs of the first round?
the other point to consider is Amir Khan throughtout his amateur and professional career has been knocked down on various bouts. Not only just knocked down he’s been wobbled. Even Barrera wobbled him if people care to analyse the fight.
I guess we have to beg to differ, as a student of sport i’m of the opinion that a weak chin such as Amir has can only take you so far in the sport. I’m to this day amazed how Amir Khan has even made it as a boxer!! I’m serious here.
Just one point to mull over, I think we can all say for certain that Amir dominated Paulie for 12 rounds last saturday, we can also say that Paulie has very little punch power. If so why was Amir’s right eye swollen after the fight?? against a weak puncher who hardly landed throughout the fight?? what happens to that eye when he comes up against someone who has decent punch power. Think about that one.
by clickonme321 on May 18, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
what happens to that eye when he comes up against someone who has decent punch power. Think about that one.
It gets knocked out of his skull and to save the public shame he dutifully lowers himself into a pit of lava like the Terminator?
His chin stinks, but everyone knows it stinks, including Amir Khan.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 18, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not sure Khan will ever admit that he has a suspect chin. I’m sure that Freddie told Khan some BS like the measure of a fighter is how few he gets hit on the chin while still being effective, and got Khan to believe that he needs to protect his chin for some other reason than ‘his chin sucks.’
by Waldo Rastel on May 18, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
You don’t have to admit something to know it’s true. He knows. You’re probably right about Freddie getting it into his head and building his confidence that way, because Freddie’s a smart dude.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 19, 2010 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Its more of a reflection of Khan’s temperament than a reflection of Khan’s actions. Just trying to point out the potential hubris of Khan forming….
by Waldo Rastel on May 20, 2010 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess we have to beg to differ, as a student of sport i’m of the opinion that a weak chin such as Amir has can only take you so far in the sport. I’m to this day amazed how Amir Khan has even made it as a boxer!! I’m serious here.
Floyd Patterson had a chin about as rugged as a 40-watt light bulb. And these days, I’ve watched David Haye get wobbled by a mediocre jab, and I wouldn’t exactly use heavyweight champ Wlad K’s chin to pave a sidewalk either. Having a dodgy chin is a curse that you have to work with, but not necessarily worse than other curses, like having no power, no speed, having short arms, etc. It is not an insurmountable obstacle, you just have to work more to protect it than others do.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
As i said we’ll have to beg to differ. You continue believing Amir Khan will do all extra work to protect his chin. The fact is he leads with the right hand and when he does he’s so open. I’m very confident when I say Amir is the most overated boxer over the last decade.
I agree that as a boxer you can take measures to avoid getting hit, however, merely running around the ring with your gloves up and holding as in the case of Amir khan get you out of harms way for so long. Eventually you will be found out.
David Haye fought small guys in the Heavyweight division bar Vaulev and in that fight he just ran.
by clickonme321 on May 18, 2010 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree that as a boxer you can take measures to avoid getting hit, however, merely running around the ring with your gloves up and holding as in the case of Amir khan get you out of harms way for so long.
Shit, if you added "while jabbing the bejesus out of his guy" that would sound exactly like Wlad Klitschko, undisputed Heavyweight Champion of the World. And he’s been doing that against top comp for five straight years now.
Fact is we don’t know what will become of Khan yet, but having a bad chin is not an insurmountable flaw. And Khan has good physical attributes that he can use to help defend the castle. Good height, good length and good speed combined can go a long way towards staying un-parked. We shall see.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Pedantry ahead
we’ll have to beg to differ
I think you mean, agree to disagree. Beg to differ means something else entirely and doesn’t really fit your context.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 18, 2010 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m very confident when I say Amir is the most overated boxer over the last decade.
That is ludicrous.
Yeah
The guy really dislikes Khan, and I’m far from his biggest fan to be honest, but I can clearly see how much talent he has.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 19, 2010 6:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
I wouldn’t have too many problems with him only being rated top 10, I think he deserves top 5, but it would hardly be outrageous.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 19, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I have him #4 at 140. When someone shows me what Lamont Peterson or Kaizer Mabuza or somebody has done that’s better than what Khan has done…
But I mean, I have Malcolm Klassen with a tentative hold on the #1 spot at 130, and he might sneak into my top…80 or so P4P.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 19, 2010 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Good point
Khan has a potentially big future though. One small mistake and it’s all gone, quite intruiging!
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 20, 2010 6:38 AM EDT up reply actions
Good research here, click
Good, so it can’t go any deeper – Arturo Gatti after being told he was cut to the bone
by The Midnight Rambler on May 16, 2010 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions
MY LIST
1. MANNY PACQUIAO UNLESS PROVEN OTHERWISE
2.VLADIMIR KLITCHSKO
3.AMIR KHAN
4.YURIOKIES GAMBOA
5.FLOYD MAYWEATHER
6. VITALI KLITCHSKO
7.SHAWN PORTER
by Carmila Fuentes Manuel on May 16, 2010 7:12 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Why on earth have you posted
What appears to be a very odd p4p list here?
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 16, 2010 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps a list of his fastest fighters? And the Klitchsko’s…
If I am good I could add years to my life / I would rather add some life to my years.
by Jay Preece on May 16, 2010 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Don't ask questions
Just soak it in.
by The Boxer Rebellion on May 16, 2010 8:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I might rec it
People must appreciate it in all its glory.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 16, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn't that a small dog?
by The Boxer Rebellion on May 16, 2010 8:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Weekend created many possibilities...
(posted this in Saturday Roundup thread, but discussion’s more happening here so reposting…hope that’s cool)
For instance, how ‘bout Jacobs-Lee? Regarding Ortiz, I’d now like to see the Maidana rematch. He may never be able to beat Marcos, but their first one was a FOTY candidate, and Victor could erase the stigma he took on with a great effort in a rematch even if he loses again. And if he surprises and wins it, he’ll be in a whole different league.
Also…s’pose Narvaez would never do it, but a bout with Cazares would make some sense. Used to want to see Soto-Guerrero, and I’d still be happy to watch it, but I can’t remember ever being thrilled by a Soto fight. Love what Katsidis did yesterday! Love to see HIM in there with Guerrero, though he’ll probably wait for Marquez-Diaz winner. In fact, Guerrero-Katsidis may have vaulted into my top 10 fights I want to see. FIW2S: 1. Mayweather-Pacquiao (duh) 2. Dawson-Bute 3. Vitali-Haye 4. J.M. Marquez-Bradley 5. Bradley-Khan 6. Martinez-Margarito II 7. Caballero-Gamboa 8. Alexander-Maidana 9. Maidana-Ortiz II 10. Tie (so sue me): Y. Perez-Darchinyan and Guerrero-Katsidis
BTW- Klitschko v. Klitschko doesn’t count, and Bradley is the guy most likely for me to wish a headlining fighter was fighting that a headlining fighter is not fighting.
Props to Khan. He is a very well rounded boxer. It’s obvious that his amateur career and his Roach coaching have created a very fine champion. HOWEVER…he looked fast against Paulie because Paulie now has average hand speed. And Roach is no fool…Khan’s chin is suspect and Malignaggi is not a puncher, so combine that fact with his now slow hands (and feet and head) and you get an overmatched opponent. Khan can be 140 champ for long time, if he avoids Bradley. Maybe Maidana beats him, maybe not. And DON’T move up to 147…he’ll get KO’d by the big punchers.
I'm not sure he will avoid them
It would be very hard for him to do so simply because it would be hard for him to find acceptable opponents elsewhere.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 17, 2010 6:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Ultimately, I think if you can have only one tool in the box,
you choose speed every time. You get to dictate the pace of the fight, and the number/type of exchanges.
It’s obviously not infallible, and if you run up against a guy who’s not totally outclassed by your speed and does other things well, you’re likely in trouble. But Khan has speed in spades, and the absolute perfect trainer to help him take advantage of that attribute.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Number 6
I’d put in Devon Alexander as number 6 in terms of handspeed.
I'd put Manny above Floyd in the speed dept. all day long.
But the Klitchsko ? LMAO I agree with the playing a Klitchsko fight on fast forward would confuse someone into thinking that way..hahaha
"pain is only weakness leaving the body"
In fairness, the commenter didn’t actually say that was her list of fastest fighters. We were just guessing, because there was no way to tell what the list was of.
That might be what’s so great about that comment. You can just let your imagination run wild on it. Haircuts? Coolest shoes? Political power? Hardest names to spell? It’s like Boxing’s version of “Jeopardy!”… we have the answer, now we just need to figure out what question would put these men in this exact order.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
by jrok on May 17, 2010 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
To say it was khan's speed that overwhelmed malignaggi is just false. It was his length that bothered malignaggi not the speed.
The speed between the fighters was comparable , khans arms were just longer so when he attacked he was out of the way before malignaggi could counter. Khan yes his height very well. This was a tall and fast 140 pounder vs a avg height and fast 140 pounder.
The speed between the fighters was comparable
I disagree. Khan was getting off shots before Paulie could even react. That hands down style of Paulie’s really killed him against Khan. Length played a part, too, but Khan’s speed had Paulie wide-eyed and flustered.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 17, 2010 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Khan
Is a great example to dispell the myth that hands down fighting is effective for giving speed.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 18, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the hands down style really did hurt him. That's the major reason he couldn't react. When your hands are low it's hard to react quick enough against a another fast guy especially with the length if khan.
When you are a fast guy and have that much length it will make you appear faster.
spot on. Of course Khan will land at will against Paulie who drops his hands low. Hatton landed at will to against magic man and that’s saying something!!
by clickonme321 on May 18, 2010 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Katsidis and Khan
Two great examples of fighters taking care of business in their opponent’s backyard. Striding into Upton Park and silencing 20,000 Hammers fanatics…priceless stuff Katsidis.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
He certainly did it with style!
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 18, 2010 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
And won me a nice few quid....
Katsidis by stoppage was 3/1…. tasty….. :)
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
Great bet
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 18, 2010 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Katsidis by stoppage was 3/1….
You know, I could take a cheap shot at British gamblers for this one, but I’m not going to. I don’t know if it’s exactly “admirable” that they seem to often bet with their hearts, but it is refreshing in some ways. Guys who just merrily lay their hard-earned bucks down on a fighter they like, maybe just to give themselves a little something extra to cheer for during the fights. There’s nothing wrong with that.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
I don't think we bet on them coz we like them
more because we believe the hype
by Sweet science on May 19, 2010 6:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure if that's a dig at me or not?
I definitely didn’t bet with my heart in this one, I was sure Katsidis would stop him.
Or are you more implying that the odds reflect the fact that British fans (and therefore weight of money, and therefore bookmakers) simply bet on their personal favourites? IE- that’s the reason why Mitchell was favourite…
I’m a little confused as to your point, if I’m honest.
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
It wern't a dig at you I don't think
Just saying that most Brits for big fights, get pulled in, and as they don’t know boxing they believe the hype (yer Hatton will knock out Mayweather, Yer Hatton will do Manny)
Mitchell was the same. The broadcaster and press all hype it up as Mitchell’s “coming out night” and they didn’t really give due respect to Katsidis. The fan that doesn’t follow Boxing (and some that do like me) thought Mitchell was gunna win and win big.
by Sweet science on May 26, 2010 7:40 AM EDT up reply actions
I would venture
that Khan still has some work to do on his technique, but he is young.
Khan vs Katsidis
Katsidis would win easily. I’d put money on this.
He's Paulie Malignaggi
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 19, 2010 6:47 AM EDT up reply actions
no
Paulie gave credit where it was due after the fight
by Sweet science on May 19, 2010 7:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe he's Prescott then!
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 19, 2010 7:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Haha!
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 19, 2010 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I love boxing and I’m generous and honest enough to praise talent when I see it. It’s my opinion and only time will tell if Amir Khan is as talented as the media hypes him up to be.
I’ve said it before, boxers like Floyd Mayweather and Amir Khan are bad for boxing. They cherry pick opponents – FACT. Khan after beating Kotelnik didn’t take his mandatory against Maidana. Big hitter so he ran!! My point is if you gonna claim that you’re the best then prove you are by fighting the best that’s currently on offer.
Whilst in the 140 division Maidana et al are fighting one another. He’s fought Ortiz and was gonna fight Bradley. Ortiz fought Campbell. Campbell fought Bradley. These are true warriors who get my praise.
Same applies to Mayweather, if you look at the Welterwight division, his rivals seem to fight one another, Cotto has fought almost all the big names at Welter bar Pretty Boy. Mosely-Margarito, Margarito-Cotto, Pacqiuo-Clottey, Williams-Margarito and so on.
Mayweather fights once a year. For a boxer that’s awful. He’s kidding himself when he claims he the best boxer of all timer. I guess being deluded runs in the family!!!
by clickonme321 on May 20, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Khan did fight his mandatory
Salita! It’s not his fault the WBA’s number 1 ranked guy was not at all in that league.
He then picked a fight that would raise his profile in America. A guy that had been in with opponent’s such as Hatton and Cotto, and in a way it was a risk, because at his best Paulie is as slippery as they come and could have made Amir look bad.
by Sweet science on May 22, 2010 6:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Salita!!!! comeon, you’re arguing for the sake of it. He ran from Maidana. Roach knows his Maidana is all wrong for Amir.
Truth is Paulie was never good. He can sell a fight due to his trash talk which subsequently raised his profile. Cotto smacked him around for 12 rounds and made a mess of his face. As Cotto said post fight, he’d have knocked him out earlier but wanted to punish him for all the trash talk pre fight. He fought Hatton and was humiliated. Now when Hatton beats you like that, it’s time to hang up the gloves.
Amir’s win against Paulie means nothing.
by clickonme321 on May 26, 2010 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
dude we get it
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 19, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions

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