Poll: How do you feel about Vazquez-Marquez IV?
by Scott Christ on May 18, 2010 1:49 PM EDT
in Boxing Commentary & Opinion
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This Saturday's fourth fight between Israel Vazquez and Rafael Marquez is an interesting one, but perhaps for the wrong reasons.
You can go back to our coverage for the very first fight in this trilogy, back when this site was in the embryonic stages. I actually credit the Vazquez-Marquez trilogy with a lot of why this site has grown. For me personally, boxing was a passion of mine and I was a huge fan, but I was unsure if I could really run a boxing blog full-time. (Don't tell the guys I talked into letting me have this blog I said that.)
But those fights ... I knew this was the sport I wanted to focus on if I was going to blog about a sport. The trilogy was that reminder that sometimes, boxing forms a perfect storm that no other sport can touch, stirring the echoes of the past brilliantly and setting new standards at the same time. Israel Vazquez and Rafael Marquez were two of my favorite fighters before the first bout, which was at the time the one fight in boxing I most wanted to see. Marquez was dominant at 118, Vazquez an unbelievable thrill-show at 122. There was no way they could have a bad fight.
They had a great fight. Then a greater fighter. Then an even greater fight, decided in the waning second with a Vazquez knockdown of Marquez. It is incredibly rare to find two fighters who mesh so amazingly as these two have. Both with indomitable spirit, serious power, and excellent skills. They're fast, powerful and accurate. And neither one of them will quit unless they have no other option, and when they do -- as Vazquez did in the first fight -- they want to avenge that and prove it to be the exception, not the rule.
They are fighters who even in the shop-worn state they're both in, we know they'll leave whatever it is they have left in the ring.
Israel Vazquez is my favorite of the active fighters. The man is just incredible to watch perform. He's had similarly great wars with Jhonny Gonzalez and Oscar Larios, though obviously his name will always be tied first and foremost to Rafael Marquez. When Marquez was at 118, I thought the only better P4P fighter in the world was Floyd Mayweather. And both Vazquez and Marquez stayed in my top ten until well after the third fight, when it started becoming clear the toll the trilogy had taken on both.
This Saturday, we're not going to get the sort of fight they put on before, I don't think. Marquez fought once last year, mowing down a foe in Mexico. And Vazquez came back a few months later, looking (much to my chagrin) very normal and very beatable against a guy that he would have banged out in just a few rounds before.
Vazquez's right eye is not in good shape these days. Take a look at a photo of the man and it's clear. He's had three surgeries on that eye. Marquez is not who he used to be either.
Yet I'm excited for the fight. I fear, in a way, for the health of the fighters, but this is part of boxing, and if Vazquez is passing medical exams, he's able to fight. I do know some are not so excited for the fight, so where are you at? Is this a "too much" sort of thing for you, or are you glad to see them back together again?
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Ambivalent about the main event
But I’ll definitely watch. Really pumped about the undercard though.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
of course im excited !
Their health is an issue but common..I’m sure everyone will want to tune in to watch this good fight.
by LJchamp on May 18, 2010 2:12 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I sort of feel as if I shouldn't be excited, because they should both be retired...
But, what the heck, its Vazquez-Marquez, and I’m hyped!
"The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic"
I can’t wait. I been waiting for Marquez-Vazquez 4 since Marquez-Vazquez 3 ended. The trilogy has been tough to watch since I’m a fan of both fighters and didn’t like to see one of them lose. But the action they provide is intoxicating. I scored the 3rd fight for Marquez. I had winning by a couple of points. But it’s almost possible after Vazquez’s performance to tell him he lost. The man’s heart ain’t human.
I’m favoring Marquez to win this fight. Like I said i thought he deserved the win in the 3rd fight. And I think he’s figured out to a certain degree how to deal with Vazquez’s style. I also think he has much more left in the tank than Vazquez. Marquez has lost 2 of the 3 fights officially. But I think he’s dished out the more damage. Vazquez has paid a heavy price for his 2 wins. His face has been busted up the worse of the 2 in each fight. He cuts easy and his nose is to the point where a well place jab can break it. He’s token a lot of punishment. And his way of fighting will ensure he takes more.
Marquez with the mid fight stoppage. Vazquez’s will and heart will make competitive enough to start whispers of Marquez-Vazquez 5
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
I won’t feel good about being a fan of this sport if one of these guys gets seriously hurt in this fight.
I mean, Izzy’s cornea. C’mon. He could lose sight in an eye. Easily.
What are they going to do here they haven’t done in the first three? And if Rafa wins, an we’re even at two a piece, then do we have to fire up number five?
I would like to see both guys retired and comfortable. Neither is going to win a belt or be elite again: they’ve both taken too much out of one another. I’d like to see them both go the Mickey Ward route and quit while they’re ahead.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on May 18, 2010 3:21 PM EDT reply actions
I am, to my own sadness, sold on Vazquez being shot. I’m not sold on Marquez being shot, though.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 18, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
His last fight was almost a year ago exactly. He’s been awfully inactive since the last Vazquez fight in 3/08 if he’s really going to fire it up and make another run at it.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on May 18, 2010 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
He didn’t look bad against the guy he fought last year, I thought. Rusty, but that was to be expected. He took necessary time off without undergoing three eye surgeries or anything. What’s tough is he’s coming back in the featherweight division, where there are some good, younger guys populating a competitive class. But do I think he could beat Chris John? As of this very moment, sure, he could beat Chris John. I might change my mind after Saturday if he looks rickety, but Vazquez already looked shoddy last year against a real patsy, so I’m sold there but not on Rafael yet.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 18, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Beat Chris John?: maybe
Yuriokis Gamboa: no
Celestino Caballero: no
and, much as it kills me to say it,
JuanMa Lopez: probably not
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on May 18, 2010 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I wouldn’t pick Marquez over any of those three. I don’t know that I’d PICK him against John, but I think of the Big Four at 126 that’s by far the best matchup for Rafael, unless Marquez surprises me and still has his speed. Then I’d give him a shot (maybe not a good one, but a shot) against any of them except probably Caballero, who I just figure is way too tall for him.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 18, 2010 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
agreed
Even with his speed, though, I still think Gamboa would be way too athletic for him. Gamboa was blindingly fast against Mtagwa. Really opened my eyes.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on May 18, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
What are they going to do here they haven’t done in the first three
How about earn a career high purse? Both fighters are criminally underpaid. It’s ridiculas and a fucking disgrace and Boxing really should be embarressed that Kevin Johnson and Joshua Clottey can both make more for there non-efforts in title fights than these 2 made for what I consider the best trilogly in Boxing history. It’s for that reason why I don’t understand people’s objections to this fight. These guys should of been paid a long time ago. And now that there getting it people got a problem with it? Un fucking believable. Yes I understand there are risk factors to there health. But them risks have been there since they first stepped into the ring as young boys. It’s nothing new. And it’s something they are well aware of.
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
by Violent Demise on May 18, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
The payday is what I’m happiest about too. God knows they’ve earned it, and they’d earned it before they ever fought one another.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 18, 2010 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm always down for fighters getting paid.
Especially guys who have earned it as much as these two.
Just wish Izzy didn’t have to risk his eye to get what’s due him.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on May 18, 2010 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry,
It’s the strangest feeling to me, since I’ve never felt this way before, but I just can’t watch this one live. It’s not that they don’t have the right, and it’s not that they weren’t thoroughly checked because no boxing commission would skimp on their checks (one of those statements was facetious).
It’s just that I can’t watch two old warriors who have given us great fights, and great parts of their physical welfare, taking each other on when they are both vulnerable and still able to wound one another. I don’t see what this one will prove. (Their lead-in fights prove that this is “Vazquez” v. “Marquez”…those quotes are made of scar tissue.)
And I can’t watch a boxing match with this dread hanging over me.
Part of me hopes for a great fight. The other part hopes one of them goes flying out of the ring, and we’re all Cintroned into a quick, safe no contest.
by El Destruyo on May 18, 2010 3:28 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd for:
“…no boxing commission would skimp on their checks (one of those statements was facetious).”
and
…those quotes are made of scar tissue.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on May 18, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Vazquez-Marquez’s fights are probably the only fights from the last five years that I’ll be telling my kids about. The skill level, the intensity, the heart both guys showed. . .
I’ve come around on this fight. I didn’t want to see it last year. But, in the end, these guys are boxers. They aren’t doctors, they aren’t actors, they aren’t carpenters. They are boxers and if they want to make a huge payday to fight each other, then who are we to deny their wishes?
I don’t anticipate this one being as beautiful as the other three, but I’ve learned not to underestimate these guys . . .
i understand due to the nature of where it stands regarding who won how many…especially for 2 guys as proud as these. i just….it’s hard to condone knowing the type of fight it will be and knowing the type of damage they will both take.
a great fight happens, sometimes there need be a rematch, sometimes fine, a rubber match….at some point though, it becomes unnecessary and almost sadist-like to knowi the kinda punishment these guys will do to one another.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.
by theworldsoldestsport on May 19, 2010 12:54 AM EDT reply actions
FULL DISCLOSURE: I don’t work for the IRS, but I’m curious: what are these guys making for this fight? As opposed to what they made in the first three?
“More” is all I know. It’s a career best payday for both. If I recall (and I may be wrong), their fights have been a series of career-best paydays.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 19, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
$1.6 million each for this one is what I've read
$1 million each for the third
Not sure on the first two. A ridiculously low amount IIRC. Like $200k for the first and $300k for the second.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I was really excited for the Perez-Mares fight, but it turns out they’re pretty good friends. Last time I saw two buds fight (Taylor and Lacy) it was more like a light hearted sparring session. Hopefully its more like how Gatti and Ward were friends after the first couple fights.
"Mug an old lady, and if you have the right connections the WBO will rank you seventh." -Steve Farhood
sometimes friends gotta fight
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 19, 2010 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Well SC
I will drink to Vazquez-Marquez I. The blog is great.
"If winning isn't everything, then why do they keep score?"
-Vince Lombardi
What's that in your avatar?
Good, so it can’t go any deeper – Arturo Gatti after being told he was cut to the bone
by The Midnight Rambler on May 20, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions
A picture of me
Playing cornhole at a tailgate.
"If winning isn't everything, then why do they keep score?"
-Vince Lombardi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornhole
"If winning isn't everything, then why do they keep score?"
-Vince Lombardi
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