Mayweather-Martinez?
by OmarLittle on May 2, 2010 3:29 PM EDT
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PrintLike every boxing enthusiast in the world, I would of course love to see Floyd take on Manny for welterweight and pound-for-pound supremacy. However, we all know that the probability of this fight actually coming together is extremely low, considering that Manny's camp could not even agree to a two-week cutoff on the blood testing, and on the contrary seems insistent on a 24 day cutoff.
Other options at welterweight for Floyd wouldn't satisfy either the ambitions of Mayweather or the boxing public. As much as I like Berto, he clearly lacks the skill to seriously threat Money's undefeated record. There also seems little doubt that Mayweather would box circles around Margarito. Paul Williams is a name to consider, but if Carlos Quintana could outbox The Punisher, I would have no choice but to assume that PBF could do likewise.
This of course leads to the possibility of Sergio Martinez fighting Floyd. Sergio has similar attributes to Pacman in his southpaw stance, athleticism, and speed that could give Floyd a serious challenge. His height (5'10'') and reach (76'') would also make him even larger than Floyd's biggest challenge, De La Hoya. Ultimately, Sergio combines the size of a DLH with the aggression and punch output of a Castillo to pose a serious threat to Floyd's zero.
Also, while Floyd was apprehensive about fighting for a "dust-collecting" welterweight belt strap against Shane, Martinez possesses The Ring, WBO and WBC titles at Middleweight, something that Floyd would certainly be more interested in possessing, in order to bolster his legacy and his claim to be the best ever. Should Martinez's strap at 154 be insufficient, I'm sure Lou DiBella and GBP could work out a 156 or 157 catchweight for a Floyd-Sergio fight, with one or more of the aforementioned middleweight straps on the line for Floyd to become a titlist in his sixth weight class.
In short, while Paul Williams is certainly an option (assuming a win over Cintron this Saturday), I personally believe that, without Pacquiao, the fight to be made with Mayweather is Martinez. Size is an issue, but it appears that Floyd was atleast 155 last night against Shane, and while he can continue making 147 with ease he could perhaps be not adverse to forgoing a weight drain and fighting at a higher weight against Sergio. Sergio's southpaw stance, speed, and status as Middleweight Champion also offers Floyd an opportunity to cement his status as an all-time great, while giving us enthusiasts something to look foward to.
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Interesting thought
I personally want to see Floyd and Berto in a fight similar to Superman racing The Flash. It would be very fun to watch. But if Pacquiao won’t budge (and at this point, who cares Manny, just take the tests), Floyd could surely cement his greatness by winning a title at 154lbs. A fight with Martinez would be a real chess-match for Floyd, and one that I would love to see and I think Martinez – long ignored through his very good career – would jump at the chance to be able to finally leave his mark.
The only monkey wrench is Kelly Pavlik. He has a rematch clause and one that Martinez and DiBella said they would accept. That puts off any possible Floyd-Sergio fight off until possibly next year. But a fight with Pacquiao or Berto fits much easily into that time frame.
Vote Quimby
I don’t think Mayweather-Martinez has any chance of happening, but if it did, they might be able to negotiate with Pavlik to take some cash in exchange for delaying his right to a rematch for one more fight. Unless, of course, Pavlik thinks he won’t be able to make 160 in 2011, which is very possible.
step aside money works
This has been the most life-affirming thing for me, to know you're valued and then show your resolve to not just curl up and die,
--Nick Charles
by The Midnight Rambler on May 2, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Pavlik is done, taco
This has been the most life-affirming thing for me, to know you're valued and then show your resolve to not just curl up and die,
--Nick Charles
by The Midnight Rambler on May 2, 2010 5:57 PM EDT reply actions
Didn’t you say that about Kessler, Ted?
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
by jrok on May 3, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Someone brought this up at the post-fight presser and Floyd said it was “possible,” which surprised a lot of people. It’s most likely a bluff, and I don’t say that to mean anything negative about Floyd. Fighting Martinez would be semi-crazy (in a good way). If I recall from the wee hours, it was Boxing Scene that recalled the time Floyd said he wanted to fight Winky Wright, and when they got to the negotiating table his demands were so ridiculous that there’s no way he was genuinely serious about it.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
honestly this would be an absolute borefest, but i’d love to see it. if there’s anyone who can out-slick PBF it’s probably Sergio
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on May 2, 2010 9:09 PM EDT reply actions
you think? I could see it being slow at first, but picking up in intensity, with Sergio or Floyd having to take more chances as the fight went on
sergio can obv be aggressive (just ask pavlik), but in his two entertaining fights that i’ve seen the other guy was the one moving forward. PBF was the aggressor last nght, but he wasn’t exactly stalking mosley either.
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on May 2, 2010 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
honestly this would be an absolute borefest
Well it wouldn’t be Gatti-Ward or Marquez-Diaz, no. But it wouldn’t be a borefest. Floyd would have to do something special at some point.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 2, 2010 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
well like you said, you love tactical fights whereas i don’t. so imo it will be, but that’s just me
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on May 3, 2010 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Are you an MMA fan? I’m not saying that in a smarmy way, just wondering about your overall fight tastes.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
can’t stand MMA
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on May 3, 2010 2:56 AM EDT up reply actions
don’t get me wrong, i’m not some knuckle dragger who only prefers to watch dudes bash their brains in. its just that a PBF-Martinez fight just has a real potential of two dudes standing there getting ready to counter but not getting the chance to since the other guy won’t throw
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on May 3, 2010 2:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
Lots of posturing, not a lot of throwing. But that’s not too dissimilar from most of Mayweather’s fights.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I agree with battle axe, it would stand a very good chance of being boring— neither guy likes to let his hands go and neither one has what could be called one punch KO power. If it went 12 full rounds Floyd would end up with less than 550 punches thrown and Sergio around 600. I personally would love to see it though as well, the sweet science would be on display and it’s one of only 3 or 4 worthy challenges for Floyd. Interesting for boxing fans, but not an invite your friends over for the PPV type of fight.
"Mug an old lady, and if you have the right connections the WBO will rank you seventh." -Steve Farhood
by BloodMeridian on May 7, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Love this fight
A Welterweight champ willing to move up and fight the Middleweight champ? I’ve heard the arguement that Floyd doen’t have the size to fight above welter. Yeah right.
Carmen Basillio was 5’ 6 1/2" with a 66" reach, gave away 6 lbs and still beat Sugar Ray Robinson for the MW title. Fought Gene Fullmer twice aswell.
Roberto Duran is 5’ 7" with a 66" reach, fought Benitez, Moore, Hearns, Hagler and Barkley. Proclaim yourself a great then BE a great.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
With Mayweather’s talent he can fight up to 160, I agree. I have said that Miguel Cotto would be awful at 160, and that I expect him to badly struggle at 154, and I stand by that, but it’s because Miguel Cotto just isn’t quite so good that he can overcome size differences like that. Mayweather I think is the sort of guy who can. Brick and I have both mentioned it in the past (and both been considered crazy) that we thought Mayweather would have beaten Pavlik, and Pavlik’s a lot bigger than Martinez. I think Floyd could beat Sergio. I’d also love to see him go for it. For me, that’s just a great fight on paper.
I’ll add this: Floyd struggled fighting at 154 a few years ago, at least as much as Floyd struggles. But we’re talking about a still-good fighter in Oscar de la Hoya, plus the second half of that one was all Floyd, PLUS Floyd has gotten a little more solid physically since then. He’s a bit bigger of a guy now than he was then. He truly looks like a welterweight now, and he looked a bit small at ’47 when he first got there.
I would say that Basilio never did fight at 130 like Floyd did and was really just a bigger guy than Floyd in some ways, notably in the legs, I’d say. Duran, obviously, fought even lighter than that, so of course it has been done.
They’d almost have to do a catchweight, but that’s not a big deal. Catchweights have been around forever and it’s not like Sergio would be out of his element, since he could still easily make 154 if that’s where the money was. Maybe even just fight it at 154, or say 156 like Oscar and Bernard did. I wouldn’t expect Floyd to come in much over 152-154 no matter what, and he probably wouldn’t want to give up so many pounds to Martinez, but again, Martinez likely would have no real problem with any of it. I mean, jeez, you think that guy might wanna make $10 million or so?
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
and the reach
Mayweather’s 72" reach might be the least-discussed weapon he has at his disposal. He doesn’t use it in a traditional sense, but boy does he know how to use it, especially on those lead rights.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
I'm hearin ya.
Yeah Floyd’s a rock solid welter now and I must be considered crazy too because IMO he’d beat Pavlik in the same manner Hopkins did. Martinez and Williams would come down to 154 for a Floyd $uperfight in a heartbeat, but if it’s at MW then yeah he could sit at 152-154 no drama. Two superfights between three fighters in their prime, it’s all good.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
They could quite easily have a 155 pound catchweight and have it be for THE middleweight title
Hell, if the ABCs and Ring would allow it, they could probably do it at 154 and have it be for both the LMW and MW titles that Sergio holds, a la Leonard-Lalonde.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Here's the thing too
Mayweather could move up to challenge Martinez for the middleweight championship, lose, and not lose ANY respect or any of his lustre. It takes balls to make a move like that, and I don’t think most reasonable people would expect he could pull it off just because he’s the #1 P4P. But I feel like he’s so overprotective of that zero that he wouldn’t make the fight if there’s even a chance he might lose.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
We are talking about Mayweather, here, after all.
I’d ratehr take odds on this fight NOT happening than on the fighters themselves. But like you said, if Floyd were to do something so dramatically ballsy, there would be no damage to his legacy at all in losing absolutely none. Even if Martinez stretched him, his legacy would be elevated, not diminished, just by taking the fight. It would be one of those “things” that everybody would talk about forever, in terms of balls.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Martinez-Mayweather would be a mismatch in my opinion. I’m surprised more people don’t think this, actually, although I understand it given the great night he had against Shane. But as great as he is, Floyd’s head is on the ceiling right now. He weighed in at 146 his last couple of fights for a reason: that is his peak performance weight. He did not look as fast or as good against a faded DLH at 150. He would be seriously undersized at Middleweight. He might still be able to pick off a Jr. Middleweight champ, but not a prime one who could punch. So, he might consider Yuri if he beats Cotto. But a Martinez fight would be suicide. Even PW or Pavlik might be suicidal. Too big and strong. Floyd wouldn’t even consider Williams when he was squeezing down into welterweight… too much risk for too little reward. Martinez is all risk for basically no reward except for legacy.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
So is Williams. Paul has gotten in plenty of world class rounds in matching against both stances now, and is a complete fighter. But he will always possess the southpaw advantage against his competition, just naturally. Not to mention the other freakish things about Paul that give managers nightmares and make them forget his phone number. It is probably pie-in-the-sky to believe that Floyd would want a piece of some prime middleweight. Everyone is riding so high off his victory against Shane, they are forgetting this is Floyd Mayweather we are talking about. He didn’t fight prime comp at welterweight, why would he risk himself against Martinez?
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
I totally agree
I’m fairly sure Mayweather would get beat up in that fight, and I’m a big Mayweather fan, I don’t see this fight ever happening.
I would argue that while he still weighs in at 146 for the weigh-in, it looks like he’s now coming in at 155+ on fight night, which he certainly didn’t do pre-Marquez fight. If he fought Sergio at a 156-157 catch weight, Floyd wouldn’t even have to drain himself. Sergio would still be bigger on fight night, but I sincerely doubt it would be that much of a discrepancy that Floyd couldn’t overcome the challenge, or at least engage in a competitive fight
Yeah, but it’s about where he is effective and sharpest at, not what he can roll in to the ring at. I contend he didn’t look as fast as when he scaled in at 150 versus Oscar, and looked like he lost some pop as well. Besides, the blade has two edges… Martinez would likely be able to make weight and then walk in as a super middleweight, as he did for Pavlik. No matter what happens, Sergio would walk in the bigger, heavier, stronger man, and depending on how Floyd implements his weight, maybe the faster one too.
By the way, none of this is sleight on Floyd. Just don’t see him competing up at middleweight or possibly not even at junior middleweight. It’s just a physical thing. He can’t succeed at middleweight because he’s not a middleweight, bodywise.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Neither was Duran
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Exactly
Nor a junior middle. And even at welt, he was giving up certain weaponry. At a point I it becomes: what weight can you train to make and come in at your sharpest/most effective without fighting an uphill battle against your body type?
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
The LW Duran relished fighting naturally bigger men and was successful in doing so against other great fighters. Floyd claims to be the greatest so taking on Martinez or Williams, both ex-long time welters shouldn’t be a big deal. He’s happy to face the ex 106 lb Pacman so lets see him come in as the underdog and prove his greatness.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
Duran was successful sometimes up there… and unsuccessful other times. Sometimes really bad looking. Of course, he wasn’t nursing an “O,” so taking the risk wasn’t as big of a deal.
I don’t have a problem with Floyd attempting a middleweight challenge. Even if he lost, it would only serve to elevate him. It’s just that I don’t think he can actually win there. I think it would be a poor weight for him, and that people who don’t really consider the reasons behind the weight classes would be shocked to see how lackluster he looked up there.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
I hear ya jrok
But I reckon he could handle another assault on light middle, at 150 perhaps. I think he’s physically developed some since the DLH fight.
Who dares wins.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
Agreed.
I don’t think the Martinez fight is realistic. Just too big for Floyd. Plus I think Manny is coming around. Reports are that he’s softened to the 14 day window that Mayweather had proposed the last time negotiations fell apart. If that fight comes off, Mayweather and Manny probably retire immediately thereafter (unless they do a rematch).
If Floyd ever got serious,
really serious about wanting to leave a solid legacy—
and if he and Manny can’t make a fight (or, actually, even if they can)
—he should think of trying to get Williams & Martinez at 154 lb. Then Pavlik at 160lb.
Believe me, there will be some (hi :)) who will still question Floyd even if he gets (another smaller man) Manny and wins and then retires. It’s not a case of nothing being good enough, but of actually taking the best fights and biggest challenges that he can find.
I don’t think it will happen.
If Pac and Floyd matchup and Pacman beats him, there might be a rematch, but even that is a very, very long shot. If Floyd wins, he will simply retire for good, no question. I think everyone just knows that, instinctively, even though we don’t want to admit it. Floyd and Manny both have either 1 fight left or 2 fights left. We are staring at the end of these guys careers.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
I still maintain
that if he cares more about legacy than money, he would pretty easily beat Zsolt Erdei for the LHW championship. And then, all of a sudden, people would recognize that Erdei holds the legitimate championship of the world.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I mean, it’s accurate, but it’s still the funniest legit title situation in a long time.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
I still simply choose to ignore it.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
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