Vazquez-Marquez V not desired by promoters
by Scott Christ on May 23, 2010 3:13 AM EDT
in Boxing Commentary & Opinion
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Kevin Iole of Yahoo! Sports had a post-fight article that will be much like all the others you're likely to read. Like everyone else, Kevin seems a bit heartbroken about the reality of last night's fourth fight between Israel Vazquez and Rafael Marquez.
But he adds one interesting piece of what I can only consider good news:
Long after the fight ended, Vazquez sat on a bench in the lobby of his hotel with his manager, Frank Espinoza Sr. Espinoza, who had his arm draped over Vazquez’s shoulder, had earlier said he thought Vazquez should retire.
...
Both promoters Oscar De La Hoya and Gary Shaw said they aren’t interested in putting on another fight between the men.
They didn’t want to be critical of Vazquez publicly, but they knew. Vazquez doesn’t have it any more.
Mark Kriegel of FOX Sports had this from Shaw:
"I got a real good look at Israel’s eye," said promoter Gary Shaw. "I don’t want to see a fifth fight."
Everyone in or around boxing who has followed Israel Vazquez's career likely hates being real about this situation. For relative peanuts over the years, the 32-year-old Vazquez has given tons of blood, sweat and tears to the sport of boxing. If Vazquez does retire, which I dearly hope he will, nobody with a functioning brain will be able to say he took one ounce of possible effort out of boxing with him. He left everything he's ever had in the ring.
And it's over for him. No doctor on earth can make his eyes fight-ready. And any fighter worth their salt is going to be able to bust him open fast. All Vazquez has is a puncher's chance, and he needs that punch to come within three rounds at the most. Otherwise, the blood's going to take him out. And eventually, you're not just risking long-term injury, you're simply making a long-term injury that much worse.
I love Israel Vazquez. He's one of those guys that I hope you all tell your children and your grandchildren about. In 20 years, guys my age are going to be bitching that they don't make 'em like Izzy Vazquez anymore. Now that guy was tough...
Vazquez is a throwback. So is Rafael Marquez. Part of the reason Marquez came out of the trilogy better than Vazquez is before the trilogy, Marquez hadn't been in a lot of serious, bang-it-out wars. Vazquez had, with Jhonny Gonzalez and Oscar Larios in particular. Israel was still a great fighter coming into the rivalry, but he was already shop-worn. Each fight simply made it worse, not that you'd have known it at the time.
He is the type of fighter you never forget. If you stopped watching boxing tomorrow, and you've seen Israel Vazquez's best fights, you'd think of Israel Vazquez in 30 years off hand, when you saw boxing in some movie or flipped by it on your TV. And I think you'd smile, because he entertained so savagely, and probably gave you a lot of memorable evenings.
It's not that Vazquez can't beat Marquez anymore. It's that he can't realistically have more than a shot in the dark chance against anyone who's any good. Coming into the fight, I had Marquez ranked No. 5 at feather (higher than anyone else, but I saw only rust in his comeback fight last year, and not totally depleted skills) and Vazquez unranked. I would have ranked Vazquez had he been at all impressive or even just rusty last year against Angel Antonio Priolo. But he was just not very good at all. Now I wouldn't in good conscience rank Vazquez in the top 30 at featherweight.
That worst of his cuts last night required three layers of stitches -- he was cut down to the bone. He will never be close to 100% again. He will never be "Magnifico" again.
But he'd leave us with a legacy that should, in my view, absolutely put him in the Hall of Fame. He's one of the best 122-pound fighters ever, and one of the pound-for-pound toughest and bravest men you'll ever see in the boxing ring. Vazquez would fight Godzilla tomorrow if that's what people wanted to see.
As a major Israel Vazquez fan, I can say with some sadness, but more admiration that I neither want nor need to see him fight anyone again. There's nothing more he can prove, other than the known risks of fighting on past your due date.
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El Magnifico's got nothing left to prove
Izzy ought to let his body heal and enjoy life while he waits for the call informing him that he has been voted into boxing’s Hall of Fame.
Good writeup
It’s sad he’s done, but at least his promoter/manager see what we see. Izzy’s fight with Jhonny Gonzalez is a fight I will always remember as heart and guts overcoming a better boxer. The drama of that fight helped bring me from a very casual watcher to watching every weekend. I hope he takes the money from this fight and is able to turn it into a decent retirement.
this is the problem with boxing fans. did any of us think this 4th fight wouldn’t be too much? seriously. the fact that after the first 3 torrid, brutal fights people were saying they should fight again was bananas to me. sadism in its purest form.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.
by theworldsoldestsport on May 23, 2010 2:16 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
There are far bigger problems with boxing “fans” than some being tentatively excited for Vazquez-Marquez IV.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 23, 2010 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm going to sign up for another account
so that I can rec this comment again.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on May 23, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
One of the easiest fight to predict in recent memory.
Good, so it can’t go any deeper – Arturo Gatti after being told he was cut to the bone
by The Midnight Rambler on May 23, 2010 2:48 PM EDT reply actions
Fine piece here, SC.
Good, so it can’t go any deeper – Arturo Gatti after being told he was cut to the bone
by The Midnight Rambler on May 23, 2010 3:32 PM EDT reply actions
OK, How about Marquez vs, Yuriorkis Gamboa or JML.
Good, so it can’t go any deeper – Arturo Gatti after being told he was cut to the bone
by The Midnight Rambler on May 23, 2010 3:54 PM EDT reply actions
I’m guessing Gamboa’s too fast for him, but Marquez would still be quite a step up from the guys Gamboa has been fighting. We haven’t seen Gamboa take the sort of shots Marquez can still throw. It’d be interesting on paper, maybe a war of a fight. Lopez would depend on which Lopez shows up. If it’s the seek-and-destroy JuanMa, I think he stops Marquez in the mid-to-late rounds (8th to 10th). If it’s the more tentative Lopez, Marquez could give him quite a fight.
Of course both fights depend on how much Marquez really does have left. I know it’s more than Vazquez has left, but is it enough for the top of the featherweight class?
I think Chris John-Rafael Marquez has some interesting angles. Rafael would be going after the most-established featherweight and John has a win over Rafael’s brother. Probably the fight least likely to get Marquez banged up any further, too.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 23, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
and least amount of money
Good, so it can’t go any deeper – Arturo Gatti after being told he was cut to the bone
by The Midnight Rambler on May 23, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s not really THAT much money in Gamboa or Lopez either. Hell Marquez is probably better-known as either of them and has the Mexican fanbase. HBO would buy every one of those fights, though.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 23, 2010 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions
A really really really like John-Marquez as a matchup. I agree with you on the Gamboa and Juan Ma point, a little big of a jump for Gamboa. I see Marquez being too technical for Gamboa and exposing Gamboa’s lapses in defense.
by Waldo Rastel on May 24, 2010 5:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Luevano would be better, I think
Sure, he looked good against a spent Izzy. But let’s see him against someone at least marginally skilled and game before we start putting him in against the best of the division.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on May 23, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
no money
Good, so it can’t go any deeper – Arturo Gatti after being told he was cut to the bone
by The Midnight Rambler on May 23, 2010 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s going to have to decide if it’s time to make one last honest-to-god run for it, or just cash in.
There’s not Vazquez-type money in facing JuanMa or Gamboa, either, and the risk of getting embarrassed is a lot greater.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on May 23, 2010 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I was watching the Vazquez-Marquez Trilogy documentary that Showtime aired earlier in the day, and at the very end, one of the writers they interviewed said, “I’ve said this from the beginning: It should be best of seven.”
I found that to be quite ridiculous. Apparently, this fellow didn’t realize that fighters are humans, not video game sprites.
by Dedywre on May 23, 2010 4:59 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Nor is it basketball or baseball or hockey. You can get hurt in those sports, but chances are remote your eyebrow starts falling off in game three.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 23, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
They didn’t want to be critical of Vazquez publicly, but they knew. Vazquez doesn’t have it any more.
It’s weird how the promoters, whose jobs it is to know about boxing, had to see this fight before they realized this, while double-digit posters on this blog called it as a stoppage for Rafa within the first five rounds.
We should start Bad Left Hook promotions. These promoters are having an emperor-has-no-clothes couple months. These guys are idiots. Shouldn’t be hard to run them out of the game in short order.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on May 23, 2010 6:42 PM EDT reply actions
I'm in.
Good, so it can’t go any deeper – Arturo Gatti after being told he was cut to the bone
by The Midnight Rambler on May 23, 2010 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Want to supply the capital Ted?
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 24, 2010 6:37 AM EDT up reply actions
I want to rec
just this graf:
I love Israel Vazquez. He’s one of those guys that I hope you all tell your children and your grandchildren about. In 20 years, guys my age are going to be bitching that they don’t make ’em like Izzy Vazquez anymore. Now that guy was tough…
Not that the rest of the post isn’t good. But this is head and shoulders above.
Although detractors decry (MMA) as a brutal, bloody form of human cockfighting, aficionados know it is a brutal, bloody, totally fucking awesome form of human cockfighting. -The Onion
by The Kittitas Kid on May 23, 2010 6:46 PM EDT reply actions
I just re-watched the fight again. Several observations and facts.
8 months is not enough time for the cuts as bad as Vazquez suffered to heal. And Vazquez knew it. It’s the reason he wanted the fight to take place at the end of the summer. He wanted as much time as possible to heal. But Marquez wanted it in March. And I understand his reasoning behind it. Marquez had already been out almost a year. He didn’t want to be out any longer. They compromised on May. And Vazquez skin wasn’t ready. Gus Johnson made an excellent observation when Vazquez entered the ring. He pointed out that Vazquez skin still looked tender. And it did. No doubt Marquez noticed it too. And he did the right thing by attacking it. After the first round ended you can almost see Marquez say “yeah” and smiled as he looked directly at Vazquez’s eye and noticed he was cut. There’s no mercy in the ring. He concentrated on the eye after that. The fight could of been stopped after it opened up. And without a doubt it should of been stopped after the knock down. There was no way the ref could of thought “it ain’t that bad” after looking right at the cut. It was almost turned inside out. But since it was Israel Vazquez he had almost no choice but to let it go on. To his credit he didn’t let Vazquez get beat up and stopped it when he did. Cuz without that cut that’s a horrible stoppage.
I don’t think this is the end of Vazquez. He’s 32 and I’m sure he feels he still he can still do it. I don’t know. He landed punches on Marquez. And I know he got his attention at least once. So he still carries his power. His speed is the same. He was never the fastest guy any way. He was also in there with a determined opponent looking for revenge who posses as much heart as him. Like i said, I don’t know. i wouldn’t have a problem seeing Vazquez in another tune-up provided he takes a year plus off. .But I rather see him call it quits.
Marquez I feel looked strong at the weight. I would favor him over any featherweight. Including Gamboa and Lopez. Marquez timing wins him the Gamboa fight. Gamboa speed is on another level. And he can hit. But the bad habits are still there. Marquez would weather his early assult and start timing him. He’ll catch him on one of the many occasions Gamboa leaves himself wide open. Lopez I personally don’t think has the heart of a true champion. If he can’t get Marquez out early he’ll become frustrated. And Marquez will take him out
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
I liked Marquez last night too. He looked incredibly determined and, for the three wars he’d had, fairly fresh overall. He was a big, sturdy bantamweight and I think he can do alright at feather, even with a good crop of fighters there.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 23, 2010 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
If he continues to fight, his career will come to a violent demise.
Good, so it can’t go any deeper – Arturo Gatti after being told he was cut to the bone
by The Midnight Rambler on May 23, 2010 7:17 PM EDT reply actions
His eye already has
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
by Violent Demise on May 23, 2010 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions
wtf!
Good, so it can’t go any deeper – Arturo Gatti after being told he was cut to the bone
by The Midnight Rambler on May 23, 2010 7:17 PM EDT reply actions
Vasquez's skin will never again be able to contain or protect him from the size of his heart.
His desire and his will can and would deliver him again to the ring ….but the fragility of his skin and the architecture of his face will never allow him to fight a full ten rounder.
This has to be a very tough pill to swallow for a 32 year old warrior. To be deprived of future paydays and the opportunity to potentially bank a veritable fortune in Mexico is difficult enough. To be forced not to do so because of certain unique liabilities is all the more frustrating.
I suspect, unfortunately, we will ultimately hear that Israel is fighting again…somewhere. Sadly for him it won’t be on a big stage….and it won’t be for very long.
No one wants to see five, and most of us knew that even number four would be one-sided and unnecessary. Five would just show the same exact thing: a brave Vazquez fighting blind and getting stopped early.
Besides, it is somewhat fitting that their great rivalry ends in a 2-2 tie.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
In all honesty, if I were Marquez
(beside having more money and getting laid a lot) I would not consider the series equal.
That eye precluded anything but a quick knockout win for Vazquez.
On the other hand Marquez always had a size disadvantage that, in the way they matched up. …
But Marquez got the “W”. Even though it wasn’t against the same fighter he faced before, it’ll be remembered that Marquez was the guy who turned Izzy into the depleted fighter he was in there. Despite losing twice, Marquez took more out of Izzy than Izzy took out of him overall. That is a victory all it’s own.
I think this is one of those great rivalries that will be picked apart over the years, and probably along those same lines. They left it tied at 2-2, but who really “won?”
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
I remember reading that Roach had said
After the first fight, that Vasquez would come out with serious permanent damage if he fought Marquez again. I doubt he’s pleased to be right.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 26, 2010 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
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