"Building" Bradley and Alexander can only happen with one fight
by Scott Christ on May 5, 2010 7:09 AM EDT
in Boxing News Analysis
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I know that on the surface what I'm about to say sounds stupid and naive. I am fully aware of that. But the surface isn't what I'm trying to get to here.
Lem Satterfield of FanHouse has been all over the Timothy Bradley-Devon Alexander situation, providing excellent coverage. Truth be told (and this is not the point of what I'm writing here), Alexander sounds 100% ready, while Tim Bradley sounds a bit more reserved.
But Lem's latest piece on the war of words probably shut the door on the fight happening in July, at least. Both HBO's Kery Davis and Bradley's promoter Gary Shaw feel that the fight needs to be "built" more. I call hogwash, but let's see what they had to say first.
"I would love see Bradley versus Alexander happen, but the key is to do it at the right time -- when the fight's big enough so that the winner comes out and gets the elevated status he deserves for winning a fight like that," said Davis, who could not be reached on Monday.
"But the sport's public has to know how big and great of a fight that is, so therefore, we have to build it a little bit," said Davis. ...
Shaw agrees.
"I just think that that fight should built more, and that they should each fight a couple of more fights to make the fight more meaningful and put them on more of a collision course," said Shaw.
"Building" this fight won't do anything. Let me explain.
There is nobody they can fight right now at 140 where a win will actually make Bradley or Alexander a bigger star than they are now. Building big fights works when the fighters are already well-known. Bradley and Alexander aren't. Their biggest fight is one another.
The other top 140-pound contenders are:
- Marcos Maidana, who just pulled out of a fight with Bradley.
- Amir Khan, who is not going to fight either of them.
- Paul Malignaggi, who has a fight with Khan on May 15.
- Nate Campbell, who is old and has a fight on May 15 with Victor Ortiz.
- Lamont Peterson, who already lost to Bradley.
- Kaizer Mabuza, who nobody knows.
- Andriy Kotelnik, who nobody cares about.
- Juan Manuel Marquez, who is fighting back at 135 and has a fight on July 31 with Juan Diaz.
- Zab Judah, who, you know, let's be serious.
- Joel Casamayor and Joan Guzman are fighting on July 31.
- Junior Witter, who's lost to them both.
- Ricky Hatton, who isn't going to be fighting anything any time soon.
There are a few other guys, and none of them add up. Nobody that Bradley or Alexander can fight or beat on July 17 and August 7 will do anything to make a Bradley-Alexander fight bigger than it already is. The real truth is, the 26-year-old Bradley and 23-year-old Alexander are two young, exciting fighters that need each other immediately. A good fight becomes a rematch. A rematch makes for a legitimate rivalry, and THEN you've got something possibly big.
It's not that I don't understand the idea. I do, and it makes sense. But there's no way to actually facilitate that right now. HBO can hype all they want, but no Bradley or Alexander fight right now is drawing fans beyond the people who already watch every HBO fight.
We're just not talking about superstar fighters, or guys who are particularly close to that. Bradley's home base is a 2,000-seat arena in Rancho Mirage, California. Alexander's is in St. Louis, an underrated fight city that has always supported its hometown boys, but he's only a draw in St. Louis. Bradley has even said he'd be willing to go to St. Louis (though he'd prefer Vegas), and knows that the Agua Caliente can't host this fight.
They're both relative unknowns still. Bradley has never fought on HBO and Alexander just got there, and with the available opponents... well.
We're talking about two of the very best young fighters in boxing maybe being able to take advantage of one another and use an actual tough fight to become bigger, instead of hoping, as is so often the case nowadays, that an audience will simply materialize out of mediocre fights. Andre Berto is in a similar spot, and has been for a couple years. The only way he's getting bigger is to take a great fight, and he was willing to do that this year.
That's where these two are at. You know what will make them bigger? A great fight that can be truly hyped. With Bradley-Alexander, you can legitimately tell the public that the two best fighters in the world at 140 pounds are going to fight. Anything else is Boxing After Dark, and only the diehards who already know them care. Nothing is really gained by a couple more tune-up wins for these guys.
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Building
the gate often = bullshit in one form or another.
Especially with a fight like this. I mean I’m not trying to harp, but there’s just no way that Shaw or Kery Davis or anyone else is going to convince me that either of these guys beating Kaizer Mabuza or Andriy Kotelnik or whatever is going to make people go, Wow! Did you see that guy?! I GOTTA watch him! He beat KAIZER MABUZA!
I’m not saying Mabuza or Kotenlik are bad fighters or bad wins. Just that they aren’t going to elevate anything in any way. All they are is another W. Unless one of them plans to go to welterweight and fight Andre Berto then there’s just nothing they can do but fight each other if they want anything meaningful. Every other potentially useful option is out.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
theres also the fact these two are not going to be household names where the american public are going to be demanding they fight each other. not in this lifetime anyway.
make the fight. if its good and close enough, people will want to see a rematch and everyone can make even more money.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
.
precisely
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 5, 2010 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I think that
you both nail this at about 100%.
by Don From Prov on May 5, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
A good piece.
However:
“With Bradley-Alexander, you can legitimately tell the public that the two best fighters in the world at 140 pounds are going to fight.”
Isn’t Pacquaio still the Ring champ?
And wouldn’t some people argue that Hatton is still above either of these guys?
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but ‘telling the public’ something often reuiqres not just being right, but being demonstrably so. I’d (probably) agree with your take, but Joe Public would be dubious at best.
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
Not sure about Manny
but I think SC’s statement is fair given that the consensus is that Pacquaio is never going to come back down to 140.
As for Hatton…maybe there are still a few holdouts, but I don’t think very many folks would favor Hatton at this stage of his career (assuming there still IS a career) over Bradley or Alexander. Honestly, I wouldn’t favor him over Maidana, either.
I see your point re: Joe Public, but sadly, I don’t think Joe Public these days knows anyone in boxing other than Floyd and Manny, and perhaps some now faded legends like RJJ and Hopkins.
by The Boxer Rebellion on May 5, 2010 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions
though, having not thought about it before,
if Hatton COULD somehow squeeze back down to 140, Hatton -Maidana sounds like a really fun fight.
by The Boxer Rebellion on May 5, 2010 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions
A whole load of people are still aware of Ricky Hatton.
In fact, I’d be willing to bet that for every 1 person you can find who knows the name of Tim Bradley or Devon Alexander, I can find you 10 who know who Hatton is.
I even had some guy trying to tell me the other day Hatton could still be P4P #1 if he wanted it enough. People still dig Ricky, and therefore it would be tough to tell Joe Public that two guys they’ve never heard of are both better than Hatton.
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
in fairness
I’m in the US, and probably don’t really appreciate how big Hatton is/was in the UK. So you are probably right.
by The Boxer Rebellion on May 5, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Let's be right:
I’m not saying I would make the case for Hatton to be better than either. It was only the way that sentence was worded that I considered incorrect, not the premise behind it.
For one thing, I now don’t think we’ll see Hatton again.
For two, if we do it almost certainly won’t be at 140.
For three, I reserve judgement on any version o fRicky Hatton now until I see him fight again. That is to say, I don’t (like a lot of others) jump on the “Ricky is finished and would get beaten up by everyone” bandwagon based on him losing to the two standout best fighters of our generation. But unlike a year ago, I’m also not prepared any more to assume he is still a great fighter when he is now so inactive, so lacking in motivation, and so fat.
I loved Ricky Hatton the fighter, I’ve had a couple of great nights with Ricky Hatton the down-to-earth celebrity, and I wish him all the best. He is still one of the best known names and faces in Britain, and if he ever does come back (properly), I’ll support him whole-heartedly.
The differencebetween me and Joe Public is that I see Ricky as a guy who has had his day, even at 31, and most round here still think Hitman Hatton can come back and whup these chumps with no problem. I’m not saying he can never beat these guys if he rediscovers his passion and commitment, but I don’t think that’ll happen.
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
Isn’t Pacquaio still the Ring champ?
Moronically, yes he is. The Ring has needed to vacate that for months, and if Bradley-Alexander comes up, they REALLY need to. Shit, they drop guys for being inactive for a year (and rightly so in most cases), but Pacquiao fought one time at 140 a year ago and they still have him holding that title.
And wouldn’t some people argue that Hatton is still above either of these guys?
If they’re dumb.
Joe Public would be dubious at best.
In the States, Joe Public is easy to convince. He buys Nickelback CDs. Then again, by your description in another post, the UK’s Joe Public feeling that Hatton can beat either of these guys (he can’t) tells the same tale, just differently.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
No real fight fan in the Uk
Would think that, it would more be case of casual fans just not knowing who Bradley or Alexander is.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 6, 2010 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh
And I totally agreed that the Ring contunuing to rank Pacquiao as 140 pound chapion is ridiculous, especially as Roach has said several times that he’s at 147 to stay.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 6, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Re: Berto
Any word on where he goes next? Just laying low to see how Manny-PBF negotiations shake out?
by The Boxer Rebellion on May 5, 2010 11:30 AM EDT reply actions
Mosley
Berto will probably go after Mosley again being that he believes Shane is just a finished product now and a name to add on his resume.
If you always thought what you thought, then you wouldn't think what you knew.
It’s exactly what I expect, and I also believe that Mosley is the right test for Andre at the moment. He’s still a step up from Collazo and Quintana, and there aren’t many of those at 147.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
I still think that Mosley KOs Berto
Berto is simply too easy to hit, and not good enough at hitting. If he tries all that holding stuff then he’s going to gas ina big way towards the end of the fight and end up on his back, if he hasn’t already anyway.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 6, 2010 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s very possible. Great crossroads fight. If Mosley were to lose, that’d probably be the end of the road. If he wins, he’s got a new lease on his career. Berto would get the biggest and best win of his career were he to get the W, and if he loses, he either learns something and gets better or doesn’t. From the Quintana/Collazo levels, Mosley right now is a logical step up for Andre. Good fight still.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
This would be the first Jones-Hopkins fight of the aughts
This would be a fight between two guys who will go on to do great things fighting at a time where it really matters, kind of like the first RJJ-Bhop fight. I have a feeling that whatever the outcome of the first fight, I would watch the second fight even if it were 17 years later because it would be that good.
Alexander-Bradley
It’s very lame that this fight can not happen now. So annoying. Anyway, if these guys won’t fight, then let’s look at a few alternatives. My first one is Ali Funeka. I know he just lost to Guzman, however his height should translate to jr. welter rather eaisly. His height could also prove to be a solid test for Alexander or Bradley.
I think both are too small for Berto though. Berto is a beast at 147.
I would love to see Mayweather/Bradley, but that’s a little pre-mature.
There really is no good/big fight for either guy beside each other.
http://www.examiner.com/x-33584-Cleveland-Boxing-Examiner
by Cleveland Boxing Examiner on May 5, 2010 1:21 PM EDT reply actions
The only argument in favor of waiting
Is that Bradley has been a Showtime house fighter and has never fought on HBO before, and thus there are probably a number of casual boxing fans (the guys who watch World Championship Boxing when it comes on but not much else) who haven’t seen much of Bradley.
But I agree with the general point and have actually made the argument before. No amount of waiting will make this a significantly bigger fight than it is right now, and the only people they have to launch one or the other into stardom is each other.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
A Marketing Team is needed
The only way to get these two in the is for these guys to promote themselves. Youtube or some type of public spectacle. These guys are what you would call the most Semi-Known / Unknowns. This would be a good fight but who would watch it, unless you put it on some under card. The fight has to make "cents " because of the amount of marketing and advertising that is put into promoting a fight. These two guys suffer from what some in the music industry suffer from and that is being a good artist but unfortunately the money for those high priced videos is no longer available to all, and if you want to move forward you have to promote yourself. I suggest these two hit the web or do a lot of interviews and just talk the fight into fruition by talking, SHIT! The longer these two are not boxing the longer it will take to start.
If you always thought what you thought, then you wouldn't think what you knew.
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