Kermit Cintron speaks after last night's fight.
about 2 years ago
Scott Christ
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Yeah
Him simply being winded would explain it. It’s really hard to speak whilst fully winded, almost impossible.
I can also see why the ring doctors could misinterpret it as something potentially more serious due to the concern they have for protecting fighters.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 9, 2010 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I used to think that was a silly expression, of getting the “wind knocked out of you”—, but I got knocked out of hammock once flat on my back, and I couldn’t pull in any oxygen at all at first and then couldn’t speak for about 5 mins, felt sick for an hour after that. It does make sense that he couldn’t communicate effectively.
"Mug an old lady, and if you have the right connections the WBO will rank you seventh." -Steve Farhood
by BloodMeridian on May 9, 2010 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I felt the same before I got winded
It’s a horrible experience.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 9, 2010 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Additionally
I expected him to be a lot worse about this based on how he acted during the Martinez fight, but this interview shows him to actually have a good degree of class.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
One more thing...
How good did he look in this fight? I haven’t been able to get a copy yet so I’m very interested in your opinions, was he doing as well as he says he was? Based on those few rounds, was it his best performance to date?
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
Both were pretty tentative for the first three rounds
Williams was doing his volume punching thing and Cintron was boxing through it. Cintron landed a bomb a few seconds before the incident. Williams clinched and the ensuing scuffle sent both down, with Cintron out of the ring.
more like williams WASNT doing his volume punching thing.
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on May 9, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
He had already thrown over 200 punches through the fight, which was a pretty good amount. He was warming up.
well for paul williams through 4 rounds he would have already thrown 450 punches. he was mostly standing there throwing miserable jabs for two rounds
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on May 9, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Two points:
1) It looked to me like Cintron threw himself through the ropes. I don’t know why.
2) these flashing ads about “you are the 100,000 visitor” are REALLY ANNOYING.
I'm not getting those
Are they in the pop-up form?
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 9, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions
2) these flashing ads about "you are the 100,000 visitor" are REALLY ANNOYING.
I’m not getting them and I don’t control the ads. There’s a Contact Us link at the very bottom of the page. Go ahead and send something in.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 9, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
if no one is getting those ads maybe he IS the 100,000th visitor!!!!
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on May 9, 2010 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Two points
2) The ads are geographically based so that’s why other people aren’t getting them. I’m getting Cougar Dating or something like that.
1) Physical momentum. When they got tangled, he was “hurled” accidentally by PW. If you check the replay, you can see PW’s gloves kinda “pushing” him. It doesn’t look important, but the momentum is what caused this.
I’m getting Curves and Newgy Robo-Pong. They’ve got me down: I’m an incredibly lonely woman sick of Jenny Craig.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 9, 2010 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
SBNation is racist
i got a home depot ad.
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on May 9, 2010 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I got AAA/Hertz rental discount and a men’s warehouse ad. Yes, I need to wear a good number of suits and travel a great deal. Apparently, I’m a business man or something.
You gotta be careful
Mentioning that program will get your perma-band from many forums.
by chadplusplus2.0 on May 9, 2010 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
You are probably correct
I recorded the fight and watched that event. PW did push him. Didn’t look like it was a hard push, but I guess
it could be the cause of Cintron going through the ropes.
by FrankinDallas on May 9, 2010 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Seeing as no one else seems to be getting them
It could be a spyware issue which you picked up elsewhere.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on May 9, 2010 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Look, judging either guy by the first four rounds of this fight is a little crazy. It was a wash, and even though many guys on here were handing rounds to Cintron, the fact is that apart from the first they were all close rounds without a lot of clean punching (and sometimes without a lot of punching period.) That’s the reason that California’s rule stinks. Not enough of a fight there to really justify putting it in the books.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
100,000th visitor
Hey I won the contest! I get a one week visit to Siberia… in January.
Included is a yak dinner with Nikolai Valuev.
by FrankinDallas on May 9, 2010 1:01 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I hope Cintron gets his rematch because he deserves it here. But I have to say, now that we know Cintron is alright, the visual of the moment when he goes flying through the ropes has got to be one of the most hilarious things I’ve ever seen in a fight. Somebody’s got to make a gif of that.
I agree
My first reaction was laughter. Only when I saw him lying on the floor did I start worrying a little bit, but my immediate reaction was a burst of laughter.
How can the doctors take the fight away from him.
If he wanted to continue why not get up once you caught your wind? He allowed himself to be put on the stretcher and is wasn’t until he was fastened down that he began exhibiting emotion, slamming his fist down etc.
Second, it didn’t look like he even tried to stop himself from going through the ropes. Wouldn’t he have tried to at least grab them if he wanted to stop himself. I don’t remember Kermit even trying.
I’m not a doctor so who knows, but it looked and seems a bit fishy to me. Being that he couldn’t hurt Paul was he beginning to doubt himself? We all know Kermit has been a bit soft mentally in the past so again who knows.
Guess I’m just playing devil’s advocate here.
If a guy is gasping for air and is pointing in the back to where he hurt himself, he sure as hell isn’t going to be allowed back in the ring by almost any doctor. In a culture of lawsuits and safety-first, there is no way a doctor would tell him to walk it off after an apparent back and neck injury. There is no motivation for the ringside doctor to let the fight continue in that context, however the ref could have overruled the doctor in another situation that would never happen.
Agree 100% me and my buddy was watching the fight and thought the same thing, the fall did not look that bad, i think cintron, zab and hopkins should become actors.
Psalm 14:1
by THERE is No CoMPETiTioN on May 10, 2010 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly Southpaw! He took a tumble and the fall was clearly broken...
by the time he hit the floor. I’m just saying, I doubt a Tyson, Vic Darchinian, Jorge Arce, Gatti (RIP) or Mickey Ward stays down in that situation.
by SmittytheCutman on May 9, 2010 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions
The precise angle of the impact makes a big difference, you know. I know it’s fun to be a keyboard warrior and all, but it’s pretty silly to draw conclusions about what something must have felt like when all you did was watch it on TV.
by taco pal on May 9, 2010 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
"Keyboard warrior"....cute, Taco.
I respect all fighters for doing what they do, I have no problem giving credit where it’s due Taco. You cannot tell me however that boxing hasn’t had it’s share of award winning acting in the past.
by SmittytheCutman on May 10, 2010 1:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah Tyson was definitely known for his extreme toughness under pressure. :-\
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 10, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
You're not suggesting that Kermit
try nibbling a little earlobe in his next fight, are you?
Seriously, I’m finding it a little difficult to reconcile a perfectly uninjured Kermit being interviewed after lying absolutely prone for the five minutes it took to get his neck braced and put him on the stretcher. Suddenly, he is banging his fists in protest…and asking to continue.
The way he was braced and gurneyed suggested the doctors’ fear of serious spinal injury. If, on the other hand, you are lying there totally conscious but winded and yet verbally protesting your desire to continue fighting, why not bang your fist in frustration sooner. And why let them put a brace on your neck. Just moan “I’m just winded”. Not “I want to go on!”
I mean the man played football and was a great wrestler.
Anywhaat, his next opponent should definitely attack his body …….and his mind will fall.
Let’s play a fun game. I’ll knock the wind out of you and you’ll try to explain to me how you are completely fine to get punched in the face repeatedly. We’ll see how that works out.
by Waldo Rastel on May 10, 2010 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions
In fact...
Let’s both train as professional fighters after years of playing football and wrestling at an elite level.
After trading body blows, let’s see if it takes five minutes to recover enough to say I’m winded.
I’ve seen guys recover faster from liver shots, sternum shots and being winded fast enough to indicate they are ready to get up
The point is that unless you are actually in the person’s shoes, you can’t assume you know how it feels. For example, a crippling shot to the solar plexus doesn’t look that different from an ordinary body blow on TV. A few centimeters this way or that way can make all the difference between a normal punch and a fight-ending punch. It isn’t fair to the fighter to assume that something must not have felt that bad, because it’s impossible to tell just by watching on TV.
Oh come on this is boxing not the Italian football team here…..
by Waldo Rastel on May 10, 2010 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Boxing has some great thespians
Zab Judah for one. Even Bernard, after all his glory, wanted to be nominated for an Oscar. the Golden Statue…not the Boy.
Plausible Answer
He thought he was winning, didn’t like what was happening, and might and/or would get the decision if the fight was stopped.
We’re not talking in a vacuum here. Kermit has a history of mental fragility in the ring. With martinez, it was a (head) butt ….but it wasn’t. After twice losing to Margarito, he wants to have his L’s asterisks.
I don’t see how the headbutt incident was a sign of “mental fragility.” He demanded to continue fighting! He acted ridiculously because it seemed like he was delusional, but there was nothing “fragile” about it.
He has shown fragility once – in his first fight with Margarito. That gave him a reputation that has colored everything else he’s done since then. I’m not saying that’s unfair, but as a factual matter, there just isn’t that much support for it.
Manny Steward
Trained him and that is his story. I like to consider the sourse…and they don’t get much better
That’s not what you said. You said “Kermit has a history of mental fragility in the ring.” He doesn’t. Manny is entitled to his view, but (a) that is a different kind of evidence than an actual history, and (b) Manny was standing right there yesterday and he did not seem to believe that Cintron was faking.
Evidence based on the opinion of someone else is almost as solid as DNA evidence!
by Waldo Rastel on May 10, 2010 1:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Didn’t he also get fired/let go and would most def have a beef with Cintron…..
by Waldo Rastel on May 10, 2010 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
That's fair enough
So in the future maybe it’s better not to listen to the commentary of the broadcast. After all, they must all have a bias because they all have a vested interest.
An opinion without evidence is simply a guess
by Waldo Rastel on May 10, 2010 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions
They parted pretty amicably, actually. Cintron just felt he wasn’t enough of a priority and it seemed, from the outside, Manny felt he couldn’t get anything more out of Kermit. Manny even recommended Ronnie Shields to Cintron when they split.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 10, 2010 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Just sayin’ that Manny could have been jealous of the success that has happened after he left. Not saying that it is necessarily true but there is at least a hint of a motive to do so.
by Waldo Rastel on May 10, 2010 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Cintron's lawyer/manager has the exact same opinion.
"Kermit is a very emotional guy," Dubin said. "He wears his emotions on his sleeve sometimes.’’
A private conversation between Cintron and Dubin suggested that maybe the beaten – and beaten-up – ex-champ was not as fine as he wanted his corner team to believe.
"He told me (after the Margarito loss), `Josh, I hit that guy with as hard a straight right as I’ve hit anyone in my life,’" Dubin recalled. "`I felt it reverberate all the way through my arm and down my leg. Then he looked at me as if to say, `Nice shot,’ and he kept on coming.’
"That had to be psychologically demoralizing. Kermit is a big puncher. Hey, you’ve got to give Margarito some credit. I don’t think anyone was loading up his chin."
That was the first break. Martinez the second. Thirds anyone?
So he faked it because he got beat up by a guy who cheats? What kind of messed up logic is that?
by Waldo Rastel on May 10, 2010 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Manny has tremendous respect for Kermit
and for the most part thinks he’s a spectacular athlete with all the tools to perform as a boxer at the elite level. He does, however, consistently question his emotional equilibrium
Correct
Shields was recommended to Cintron by Steward after the two opted to part ways. As a fighter, Cintron is admittedly high maintenance and he needed a trainer who would be totally focused on him. He’s found it in Shields.
He needed to regroup after his second beating by Margarito when even Dubin said that he cracked psychologically after having Antonio smile at his heaviest punches.
Hahaha, that's the best you could come up with.
If I was a boxer/pro athlete of Kermit’s stature I’d let you hit me repeatedly in the body and face. Hell, I’d do it now if you’d give me the time Kermit had to lay there beforehand. Seriously, the guy is in the business of hurt, Gatti wouldn’t have let himself be carted out.
by SmittytheCutman on May 10, 2010 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions
The doctors prevented him from moving…..they would have done the same thing to any other boxer on the face of this planet.
by Waldo Rastel on May 10, 2010 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions
No, not justifying Tyson's mental flaws,
just saying that I can’t see a fall like that keeping him from getting back into the ring. Another opponent breaking him down, yes, but not a fall like that.
by SmittytheCutman on May 10, 2010 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I have yet to see a convincing argument...
… from those people saying that Kermit was faking it. What is the motivation? Why? Honestly, nobody has given any kind of reasonable explanation as to why a guy who was doing well in a fight, who had been able to rock the other guy (yes, someone said he couldn’t hurt Paul but that’s not what we saw a few moments before that fall happened… PW was a bit stunned at one of those KC right hands) would, in the spur of the moment decide that, HEY! I’m flying through the air so let’s make it a short night!
Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one
i personally think he was faking it, after what he did in the martinez fight, even though sergio dropped em like manny did to hatton, and he was complaining to the ref, then they called it a draw? anyway he was still getting paid so he was like ill stay down when they put me in the ambulance then ill start cussing, any 1 that has 2 eyes knows that fall was weak and could not have hurt em.
Psalm 14:1
by THERE is No CoMPETiTioN on May 10, 2010 12:45 AM EDT reply actions
This isn’t a question of opinion, it’s a question of fact. An opinion would be something involving a value judgment like “I think Cintron is a bad boxer.” Whether or not he was faking is a matter of fact – either he did or he didn’t. Just because we can’t know the answer for sure doesn’t turn it into a question of opinion where anyone can say whatever they want. If you want to draw a conclusion about it, you have to base it on hard evidence, not just your gut feeling.
by taco pal on May 10, 2010 1:01 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Just a quick question
Why would Cintron have been faking it? What do people think he was trying to get out of? Maybe three hard punches landed on him all fight, and he very well could have been ahead on the scorecards. I can’t figure out what incentive Cintron would have to fake it.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
who knows whats going through his head, like i said they both gettin paid, i just can’t look at em the same way after the martinez fight, and they way he fell was hilarious, no way that could of hurt em, then he bangs his hand on the ambulance, or maybe he knew if he plays dead they go 2 the cards cuz he thought he was winning da fight, so its a easy way out, but it backfired on his punk ass.
Psalm 14:1
by THERE is No CoMPETiTioN on May 10, 2010 12:59 AM EDT reply actions
One plausible answer
He thought he was winning, didn’t like what was happening, and might and/or would get the decision if the fight was stopped.
We’re not talking in a vacuum here. Kermit has an evolving history of mental fragility in the ring. With martinez, it was a (head) butt ….but it wasn’t. After twice losing to Margarito, he claims after the fact to have felt something no one else seemed to previously mention.
I urge people to watch the fall again. I've watched it 3 times, and it's odd to say the least.
In no way shape or form did he ATTEMPT to stop himself from falling out of the ring. He wasn’t hurt, he actually stunned Paul. You’d think that someone who is off balance and falling forward would at least try and buffer his fall by grabbing the ropes, and not go head first/arms down through the ropes. I’ve taken a fall on many occasions and I can tell you I’ve always tried to brace myself, or grab on to something.
I wonder if he hit Paul with some of his best and being that Paul was still there flustered him a bit. Shortly afterward the guy’s giving interviews stating he’s fine. Because of this flub, I think his chance of a rematch flew out of the ring with him.
by SmittytheCutman on May 10, 2010 1:34 AM EDT reply actions
So you actually measured the speed at which Cintron was traveling, which can be done by knowing the size of the ring and equating to pixel size, and then knowing the average reaction time coupled with the time necessary to move an arm found that Cintron had the time necessary to achieve these actions yet, decided against it. Or is this just one of these newfangled opinion things I keep hearing about?
Sorry for being so effrontery but this argument is getting toward the “Dirrell was faking it” levels of weird.
by Waldo Rastel on May 10, 2010 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions
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