Mayweather vs. Pacquiao: If and When...or Maybe Never
by Bad Left Hook on Jun 6, 2010 2:45 PM EDT
in Boxing Commentary & Opinion
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Bad Left Hook's Ted Sares is back with a look at a possible, and perhaps unlikely, matchup between Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Manny Pacquiao.
* * * * * * * *
We'd break him down and beat him up...Floyd can't break an egg; he's fragile. He hurts his hands all the time. He has speed, but if he lays on the ropes and rolls his shoulders, we'll take everything he gives us.
--Freddie Roach
I maintain and assure everyone that I have not used any form or kind of steroids and that my way to the top is a result of hard work, hard work, hard work and a lot of blood spilled from my past battles in the ring, not outside of it.
-- Manny Pacquiao
Lil Floyd would whoop (him), but to tell you the truth, I don't think he should fight him...That would be my advice to him.
-- Floyd Mayweather Sr.
Let's hope Floyd Senior's advice is not taken seriously and that these two great boxers finally meet in what would be the richest fight ever, but I have my doubts. Let's take a look at how I believe they stack up at this point in time.
The Corners
Pretty much a wash though the calm and collected Freddie Roach is as savvy as there is and knows how to get in an opponent's head better than most. Still, Uncle Roger (perhaps angst-ridden as a reuslt of facing alleged charges in criminal court) enjoys a superb symbiosis with his nephew--though Father Floyd lurks in the background waiting for his opportunity to take over.
The Styles
Opposite styles. Pac Man is the aggressor who will take a punch to deliver one and, unlike Floyd, is a merciless closer once he has his man hurt. He has an offensive whirlwind style reminiscent of the great Aaron Pryor.
Floyd Jr. is a "pick your spots" type of tactical wizard who is a superb defender using rare elusive abilities. Blessed with speed, stamina, power, sharp punching (especially the ability to counter punch), and a solid chin, he may be at the top of his game. His superior straight punches and lead left hooks are a thing of beauty. Indeed, as a purist, I find his level of all around skills exciting to watch.
The vastly imporoved Pacquiao now seems to possess an arsenal the qualitative content and completeness to which only Floyd can stake claim. He is tough, durable and mentally resilient. With his in-and-out movement, ability to attack from any angle, effective jabs, fight-ending hooks from both hands, great stamina, and a sound defense, there is not much to criticize. However, I do believe Manny will have difficulty penetrating the elusive defensive tactics of Floyd which include his signature shoulder rolls, strategic clinching (read: holding), spinning, sharp counter punching, balance, and lots of movement. Of course, Manny will not emulate Hatton, Marquez, or Mosley and allow Mayweather to pot shot him. No one can do that to this version of Manny Pacquiao.
If Manny can get Floyd to engage in meaningful exchanges, he might have his best chance to land punches from unusual angles. But he needs a willing partner to do his best work. Cotto and Hatton were willing partners while the overly cautious Clottey was a totally unwilling one which proved to be his (Clottey's) downfall. Mayweather will be neither. And if "Money" hits Manny with the uppercuts that Clottey (and Cotto) landed, well, the result could be different.
Ring IQ
Both are savvy and experienced fighters, but I believe Mayweather has an ever-so-slight edge as he can adapt to different situations a bit faster.
Level of Opposition
Edge to Manny who has fought 10 fights against 6 guys who have a rock solid shot at being inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame. But he has also fought and beat others with great records coming in. Throw a dart at his list of opponents and you might, for example, hit Australian Nedal Hussein (43-5), South Korean Seung-Kon Chae (23-0), Thai Chatchai Sasakul (65-4), Mexican Oscar Larios (56-4-1), Thai Wethya Sakmuangklang (41-3), South African Lehlohonolo Ledwaba (33-1-1), or Colombian Jorge Eliecer Julio (44-3).
Some of Money's victims include Emanuel Augustus, Carlos Baldomir, Arturo Gatti, Phillip N'dou, DeMarcus Corley, Genaro Hernandez, Zab Judah, Jose Luis Castillo (twice), Jesus Chavez, Ricky Hatton, Oscar De La Hoya, Juan Manuel Marquez, Sugar Shane Mosley, and, of course, Diego Corrales.
Mayweather is 41-0 while Pacquiao is 51-3-2. Many has a KO percentage of about 68 while Floyd's is around 61.
Common opponents
Both sent Ricky Hatton into Manchester dreamland (but Floyd did it first). Juan Manuel Marquez gave Pacquiao fits while Mayweather schooled and dominated Marquez, but Marques was a n older fighter when he fought Mayweather. Of course, the opposite happened with De La Hoya. I give "Money" another ever-so-slight edge here.
Intangibles
Chin: Manny has been hurt badly, but in my view, it occurred too far back to be meaningful. Moreover, Pac Man failed to make weight and was seriously drained and weakened in his first career loss to Rustico Torrecampo in 1996. Floyd defensive prowess has kept his heretofore reliable chin from really being tested. He has rarely been in dire straits, though an aging Sugar Shane Mosley had him reeling in the second round of their recent fight. If Pacquiao is able to do the same, he will not let Floyd off the hook
Cuts: Manny is more prone to cuts than Floyd.
Momentum: Pac Man gets the nod. He is on a great streak of big wins (Clottey, Cotto, Hatton, De La Hoya, Diaz, Marquez, Barrera, Solis, Morales, and Larios).However, Floyd's body is well rested and his wins over Juan Manuel Marquez and Sugar Shane Mosley did nothing to strain it. There are those who accuse Roach of cherry picking Manny's opponents and there are those who accuse Mayweather of being an expert cherry picker. If so, then the issue is a wash. But the fact is, Floyd has fought six times since January 1, 2006, while Manny has worked eleven times.
When Pac Man beat De La Hoya, Oscar was a shadow of his former self who could not pull the trigger and Roach knew it. He was not the same Oscar who lost to Mayweather. Hatton already had been demolished by Mayweather and then badly hurt by Juan Lazcano. Though he looked good against Paulie Malignaggi, he was ripe for the picking and Roach knew that as well. As for Cotto, many thought the "Ghost of Margo" would play a role-and it did indeed. Cotto was damaged goods by the time Manny got to him. Call it luck, call it master opponent selection by Roach, or even call it cherry picking, whatever it is, it works well. Of course, when it comes to picking and/or avoiding opponents, Floyd does pretty well himself--and he seems to retire more often than he fights.
Dimensions: A catch weight would favor Floyd, but Pac Man has never let that be an issue before. Still, 5‘8," 72" reach vs. 5‘61/2," 67" reach is a big, big advantage. Moreover, Floyd dominated the guy who gave Pac Man fits, and is naturally bigger and will enter the ring even heavier. I still cannot forget the marked difference in size between Mayweather and Marquez, and when I factor in Manny's shorter arms, well, this could well be be the deciding factor.
Pre-fight "juicing" issues: This one will soon require the Latin phrase Ad nauseam. While Mayweather has managed to make Pacquiao seem like the "villain," the tide again seems to be turning. Whether this issue keeps the fight from being made remains to be seen, but if the fight does take place, the issue of performance enhancing drugs should have little or no impact on the outcome. After all, translating a PR victory to a victory in the ring is quite a task.
Focus: On May 13, 2010, Pac Man was officially proclaimed congressman of the somewhat politically volatile province of Sarangani (most provinces in the Philippines are politically volatile). These activities can only have a negative impact on his ring work, for it's difficult to imagine how he can concentrate in camp while attending to the demands of political office. Mayweather is always in tip top shape and when he steps into a boxing ring, his unmatched focus and discipline are laser-like.
After his victory over Clottey, Pacquiao expressed the possibility of retirement, but my own thinking is that he will take a third match with Juan Manuel Marquez or a matchup with the winner of Cotto-Forman. Margorito's name has been mentioned as well, but I hope that does not materialize. What has he done to earn such a monster payday?
I seriously question whether a Mayweather-Pacquiao fight will ever take place, but if it does, a tremendous case can be made for either fighter to win.
What do you think?
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Comments
Mayweather by UD
I think Mayweather lands a ton of uppercuts and outscores Pac in 8 or 9 rounds. I say that as a Mayweather homer/apologist since his fight with Corrales got me to follow boxing for the first time since Tyson in his prime.
"If we fight, I’ll need more speed because Mayweather is fast."
--Manny Pacquiao
I think this is a tremendous site.
I disagree, though, that Manny has an even comparable ring IQ to Mayweather. I think the difference between the two in that regard is roughly the same as Pacquiao and Marquez in their first fight – back when Pacquiao was all raw power and speed and fight. That’s no knock on Pacquiao, who is a complete fighter now. I just think Mayweather is a genius who’s on another level than his peers in that respect.
On a side note, I feel the same way about them in terms of skill. Back in the day Pacquiao was murderous as a one-handed slugger. But a guy like Marquez was his equal. Again, I think the difference between Mayweather and Pacquiao in terms of skill is about the same as the difference between Marquez and Pacquiao.
I think Pac’s only shot is to go all wild and just see what happens.
HHmmmm. Isee this is your first post. HHmmmm. Welcome aboard, mate!
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
I do think he has the edge in that department. His has been tested more, anyway.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
If it were only down to heart he'd walk all over the Shitty kid and piss in his face.
But…..
Don't tell me I play bum notes - I KNOW!
by Randy Loathsome on Jun 6, 2010 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Talking of heart....
The Shitty Kid likes to state his claim to greatness above Ali and Robinson but will always lose out on heart. He’s got the heart of a sheep and the balls of a mermaid.
Don't tell me I play bum notes - I KNOW!
by Randy Loathsome on Jun 6, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Though it sticks in my craw to say so,
I favour the shitty kid over Manny, I’m afraid. It’s down to size as much as anything else. I regard Roach’s picking of impressive-looking but ultimately beatable fighters in DLH and Hatton as a potential problem for Manny – he looked good beating them up but they were selected for that role. No problm in itself it could be argued and, conversely, it could be argued that if Roach sees Mayweather as beatable, then why not? But does he? This is the swan-song fight for Pac and all he can lose his some of the shine from his legacy.
I would eat crap for a week/month/year if they get it together and Many does a number on him – same natural weight, P4P I’d go with Manny but with Shitty being, currently, naturally heavier and very fit – as Ted says, he doesn’t skimp in the gym – I can’t see manny doing it and will be reduced to a bit-player by the half-way stage, I feel.
Don't tell me I play bum notes - I KNOW!
Save some of that"crap" for me, mate.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
I'm starting a Crap for Ted jar right now
Don't tell me I play bum notes - I KNOW!
by Randy Loathsome on Jun 6, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Good Christ in heaven
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
You called?
Don't tell me I play bum notes - I KNOW!
by Randy Loathsome on Jun 6, 2010 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Why did I know you would do that?
Now then, is that the only shirt Manny has? He was wearing it at the fight last night.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
That’s from the fight last night.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
Why did I know you would do that, too?
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
EErahg. I just read the caption
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
He needs a new shirt. That one's horrible.
I have to admit that Shitty does know how to dress – as a pimp meets Wall Street sort of thing.
Don't tell me I play bum notes - I KNOW!
But he is a movie star. However, even Hagler as "Indio" and Kenny Mandingo Norton were better.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
I am among the biggest Pac fans anywhere, but I’m picking Money Mayweather UD in this matchup. Pac’s aggresive style plays right into Floyd’s hands. You are right on with the reach advantage. I can see Manny eating straight rights all night — a punch lacking from Manny’s recent opponents. I wouldn’t be shocked if Floyd wins 9+ rounds.
I know. I’ll probably get my Pacquiao fan license revoked now.
But well posted. It's that lack of reac that wouold hurt Manny big time.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
outboxed
DO YOU THINK MAYWEATHER COULD COUNTER MANNY"S 1500 PUNCHES?? Thats why mayweather quit because he doesnt have a chance of winning.. manny is a complete fighter…. and mayweather is vulnerable base on his previous fight with mosley…
If Manny can average 80 punches a round against Mayweather, I'll eat my hat
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
oh c'mon
even if manny can throw even a thousand punches against floyd, i really doubt that he will connect on more than 10% of those punches. manny is a complete fighter, yes, but floyd’s defense is really hard to penetrate.
reach that would
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Well-written, Ted.
I’m just too dispirited to even contemplate this match right now. If we’re talking fantasy, can we go for Pacquiao v. Pryor, or Tyson v. Clubber Lang?
Pacquiao v. Pryor- OMG!
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
mmm
that’ll be a fight for the ages.. two whirlwinds in the ring!
Thanks, Destroyo
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
I would have to go with Mayweather in this one too,though not by a landslide,something like 115-113 UD.
If all things were equal size wise i would be more inclined to pick Manny but i thought he looked a little bit chunky(for a lower weight boxer) against Clottey and maxing his weight out at welter must affect his speed a little bit.Floyd obviously carries it much better as the naturally taller man.
I wasn’t overly impressed with either in their last outing and i feel that this fight has to be made now or it won’t be as good as everyone hopes.
Imo,they are both fading slightly,which is to be expected.
I don’t think Manny will be caught with counters as often as some think,though it will happen.Having Freddie there is a massive plus for Pac and he can change the tactics as
the fight goes.Manny’s aggression will count for a lot as it did for the inferior JL Castillo.
His speed and power are trouble for anyone too.
I will say now that although i would pick Floyd on points,if anyone gets KO’d/TKO’d in this fight,it will be Money.Manny is a fast handed finisher after all and Floyd showed real vulnerability against Mosley when tagged..
Thanks, I don';t see Floyd stopping Manny, but I can see him winning a snoozzzzzzzzzzzer give their styles.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
I am also very sick of hearing all the back and forth bullshit from these two and their teams as i think most fans are.Talk about not seizing the moment and making the most of opportunities.
If they leave it much longer people are gonna start to lose interest :).
I only want to hear more about this when it is signed,sealed and delivered.
Pac man can’t and won’t beat Money. I love the guy, but I think he’ll be outboxed and maybe KO’d in the later rounds. Pac’s best weight is about 6-8 pounds less – I know he was drained a very low weights but at 147 (or higher) he doesn’t have the power himself or the ability to take a larger guys punch. He only got hit maybe 10 times by Clottey but each one really rocked him…..the crowd cringed each time. In fact I can say the crowd was afraid Pacman would get KO’d by the much stronger Clottey who of course refused to punch back. Mayweather will befuddle Pacman for 8-10 rounds then maybe stop him. And it doesn’t help that Pac has so many outside obligations.
That’s my story and I’m sticking to it.
Sorry Frank
but i don’t agree that Manny was rocked at all by Clottey.You may have been there at the fight but i had a closer view on tv and the few uppercuts he landed,obviously Manny felt them,coming from a bigger guy(a big,solid welter really) but he was never ‘rocked’ and to say he was ‘really rocked’ is just wrong.That would mean his legs were affected and he was close to being put down.That never happened.
I think we have had this conversation before...
haven’t we?
by FrankinDallas on Jun 6, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I still feel like Mayweather wins wide
Too lazy to go into it extensively, but I feel like Mayweather keeps Pacquiao off of him by style and reach, and that after a while Pacquiao will just stop having answers.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Man up, get off the couch and post
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
MANNY
Goin with Manny, once he tags Floyd its a wrap, it aint goin to be like Mosley where he just falls off. once Floyd feels Manny’s power its goin to screw his style up and Floyd will go into survival mode because he wont want to get KO.
Psalm 14:1, Matthew 3:2
by THERE is No CoMPETiTioN on Jun 6, 2010 5:54 PM EDT reply actions
Like most on here
I reluctantly go with May. His talent appears to be a natural talent, whereas Manny’s is a talent born out of hard work and tutoring. As much as I hate to say it, I think May’s natural advantages (size & skills) could be the undoing of Manny. Plus, is Manny’s eye off the ball at the moment with his future career outside of boxing?
by Phill on Jun 6, 2010 6:15 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Very good analysis
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
The fight has become such a big
if that it’s become about impossible for me to get worked up about it..
More a talk-festat this point anyway.
IMO, one unlikely to be widely shared, they have crested the point of diminishing interest.
I have no interest in Manny/Cotto II
and less than no interest in Manny/Margo I.
I would be interested in Martinez or Williams fighting Jr. but ain’t we already been there?
I mean, no one at all thinks either will happen.
Manny is a politico now and Jr. is an actor in his own little play.
I was properly impressed, however, with the other Jr. (Roy Jones) on HBO the other night.
Manny may just retire.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
I think there is a fair chance that he might. I do.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
It wouldn't be the end of the world.
IMO, he has less options than the bigger Mayweather (who isn’t taking his options).
by Don From Prov on Jun 7, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m with you on RJJ. I know that HBO’s ‘World Championship Boxing’ and ‘Boxing After Dark’ are different shows, but Roy Jones Jr is miles ahead of Lennox Lewis in broadcast skills .
If Manny was too small to begin with,
Manny the politician/part time fighter surely should not win the fantasy match-up.
See you on Tuesday morning
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
If these two don't sign in their prime
We might as well be being playing with a Wii.
This is beginning to remind me of being a kid growing up with Ali as the champion and asking whether or not he could have beaten Marciano. Early computers could project probable scenarios and outcomes but could never create the real thing.
Unless these two men decide to meet in their prime, this exercise is fast becoming an obsolete game of Fantasy Boxing.
I was thinking….Koufax vs. Jeter. Two outs in the bottom of the ninth…..
Koufax
"If we fight, I’ll need more speed because Mayweather is fast."
--Manny Pacquiao
by lildrummerboy on Jun 6, 2010 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Sandy Koufax makes Jeter look sillier
than Morrow made him look the other night.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Odds always go to the pitcher
But Jeter’s always hit lefties well.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
His swing mechanics are such that
he has trouble with hard stuff inside and/or really sharp breaking balls at his feet. If you throw out over the plate, he’s got some of the best ‘inside-out’ reactions in baseball, but if you jam him he’s like a lost puppy. The best he usually does is fist it over the 3B down the line.
Which makes his career numbers just that much more impressive, btw. Having such a glaring weakness (not a hole, really..just a weakness for a perennial all-star and hof-er) and still putting together his career is amazing.
But Koufax would tear him up where he’s weak. Koufax was a different breed..like Randy Johnson without the fire-breathing-dragon image.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Why would you ever choose Jeter as the hitter in your fantasy matchup? Go with Bonds or Pujols or A-Rod or someone like that.
Kapt'n Klutch
Plus, he mashes lefties
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Jeter is a clutch hitter
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Ted Williams, Barry Bonds and Albert Pujols
are pretty much the greatest hitters of all time. My Mariners had a hitter who was like them, but a step down in ability in Edgar Martinez and watching him hit (compared to A-Rod or even Griffey Jr. in his prime) was a whole different experience.
Guys like Barry, Ted, Albert and Edgar well and truly control their AB’s. The pitcher is forced to attack them, rather than induce something silly to happen. It doesn’t mean they succeed that much more than their peers, but there really is a different level of calm and control during their AB’s.
Jeter’s not in that group. Mattingly was close, but Jeter’s not. Still a great hitter, and a cornerstone piece of a championship dynasty (obviously), but he’s not in the top echelon all-time.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Williams couldn’t post season. Jeter can. You know who else could who often gets over-looked? – Kirrrrrrrbbbyyy PuCKett!
And you have had Ichiro in Seattle, he’s pretty damn special himself.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
Ichiro's more of a force of nature
than an imposing hitter. He’s a special, uniquely talented and fiercely competitive player, but he doesn’t really control every at bat like the greatest do. Still, he’s more than capable of putting a big hurt on you when you least expect it.
That walk-off job he did against Mo last year was something to behold. Someone did a great mashup with the footage from the game, the movie 2012, and some sort of seriously wicked fusion-based reaction at home plate. I can’t find it anywhere…dang.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Floyd's Corner
I agree that it’s a wash between the two but I don’t believe that Roger or Floyd senior offer much advice or strategy for Floyd. He clearly runs his own corner and camp which is a testament to his ring intelligence. Anyhoo, I’m picking Floyd in a close decision which would set up a rematch. Too bad they’re both ducking each other.
This feels to me like any other fantasy match up like would Manny beat Duran or Mayweather vs SRL. Its all just gone so far that Ive lost interest in all the talk. IF this ever gets signed I’ll be all for the hype but at the moment it all seems like hype for nothing.
I think it ends inside the distance. Either Pac tags and wobbles Floyd and beats him up cause he aint winning a boxing match or Pac runs into a check hook or something from Mayweather while going for an all or nothing approch
"I'm scared every time I go into the ring, but it's how you handle it. What you have to do is plant your feet, bite down on your mouthpiece and say, 'Let's go.'" Mike Tyson
In a strange sort of way, the interest in this Piece may signal the loss of interest. Had I done this a few months back, I sens the number pof posts would have been
considerable, but this thing is on the right j=hnad side of the bell shaped curve and the law of diminishing returns has now set in as Don from Prov indicates.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
I think you nailed this one Ted. Even before this there wasn’t that much interest in Pac-Man announcing that he is fighting in Nov. Most hardcore boxing fans seem to be sick of the back and forth between Roach and Mayweather, and frankly has made me lose a great deal of respect for both men. This fight needs to get done or else these fighters need to take top-level challengers like Floyd v. SSM or Pac. v. Cotto. The problem right now is that there is only one or two other opponents for each fighter that would be acceptable. I see Floyd. v. Cotto (Top Rank won’t happen) and Pac. v. Berto are pretty much the only acceptable options for each fighter, ignoring some matchups from other weight classes. I’ve gotten to the point where I don’t care about either fighter (Pac or May) unless they have signed a fight, meaning that I simply started to ignore all the rumors. Hopefully, this fight actually happens and if it doesn’t it will be an embarrassment to both parties and boxing as a whole.
by Waldo Rastel on Jun 6, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Mayweather vs Cotto
While I am not a Mayweather fan, I fully understand that he the most skilled fighter alive today. I hope the fight with Pacquaio comes off and happens soon. Pacquaio may simply over power Mayweather’s skill and boxing ability with his tornado like attack. Some times the most determined man will over come boxing ability and Pacquaio has determination. This is a great article by Mr Sares.
Hot damn, Tex is on board folks. Another ESB legend in the house. Thanks, Tex.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Pacquio vs Mayweather
Hey Ted very good write on these two, but as usuall I have to go with the Pacqmister because I watch the Mosley Mayweather fight and I seen how Mosley couldn’t capitalize on the fact he had PBF in serious trouble and totally blew that fight ! Know we all know that will not happen if and when the fight takes place, IF because I really can’t see Mayweather having the parts to actually get in the ring with Pacquio !!! But if it does Pacquio will stop PBF brutily , I am going to say somewhere around the 9th and 10th rd GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Pacqman
Lots of first time posters on here and I love to see that, but who are you--really--tompro? Also, who is
Antwonomous? I have my suspicions
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Out box???????
hatton sleep for a matter of munites after he got hit with pacquiaos left hand on the second rounds… dela hoya quit after a multiple punches he got… cotto survive for 11 round however the referee stopped the fight on the 12 rounds…. clottey survive 12 round because he keeps on garding himself however he revieve 1200 punches…. If YOU TRY TO ANALYSE THIS 5 FIGHTS ALL MANNY’s OPPONENT RETRITE AND AVOID MANNY’S PUNCHES TO LAND…. THIS MEANS that Pacquiao had speed as well as POWER… looked when cotto try to counter pacquiao he end up in canvas for 2 times… Manny SPEED AND POWER is his ultimate defense and offense… do YOU THINK MAYWEATHER HAD MORE BETTER CHIN THAN DELAHOYA AND COTTO THAT COULD HANDLE THE POWER AND SPEED OF MANNY???? MAYWEATHEr doesn’t have KNOCK OUT PUNCH IN EVERY ANGLE like manny.. try to review all of his fight and judge whos the best…. If you combined the knock outand knock down percentage in every fight manny got 80 to 90 percent… thats how powerfull and a blinding speed manny’s punch is…
A lesson in how to use emphasis to emphasise.... well, nothing, really.
Do you just hit the Caps Lock at random to create an artistic effect?
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
He was showing us his
RAGE!
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jun 7, 2010 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Mayweather by wide UD or late knock-out
For all the reasons most people are talking about. I feel Floyd could knock out Manny late if Manny goes for it instead of getting frustrated and stopping the pressure. That’s exactly what happened to Hatton late, while Mosley and Marquez (to name a couple) stopped applying the pressure and seemed content on losing a lopsided fight.
Unlike Hatton, Manny's pressure has real purpose
And unlike JMM (36 and overweight) or Shane (39 and too late) he’s 31. And doesn’t stop.
It’s a coin toss but I take Manny the way I took Frazier in the first fight to beat Ali and SRL to beat Hearns. Armed with skills and the will the little man takes the fight from the purely skilled.
Pac Man failed to make weight and was seriously drained and weakened in his first career loss to Rustico Torrecampo in 1996.
my head damn near exploded after reading this.
Why? It's a true statment. He was penalized for failing to make the weight.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
We are talking about an imaginary fight at this point, and one I don’t think either guy wants or deserves. If it gets signed, then I’ll throw a couple more brain cells at it. Until then, there are other fights.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Do you mean “among real fights that can actually happen without a lot of soap opera bullshit?”
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Yep.
Is Kirkland out yet? Has Ms Wolfe smacked him back into shape? Cos I think he could be the next REALLY big thing. I take him over Williams, and possibly over Martinez at 154….
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
He can restore some badly needed interest in boxing. I tell you, UFC and MMA is coming on strong.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Frock
MMA and UFC (though I don’t mind them).
Show biz orientated. Decline of the West, Mr. Spengler.
by Don From Prov on Jun 7, 2010 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Oswald Spengler ftw
I’m not sure how you worked him into this, but I like it!
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jun 8, 2010 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions
There’s no “coming on strong.” They’re a more popular sport already.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
Yes. it seems so. And I like them as well.Cung Lee rules.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
I grew up on boxing and have enjoyed it even during the 'darker times'
like Lennox Lewis’ title ‘reign.’ I bought in to Oscar’s shtick back in the 90’s, and appreciated his presence in the sport, and have also enjoyed the bigger-name fights for the last decade or so.
The problem is, it’s too fractured and none of the brand owners are interested in doing anything for the future. They’re just cashing in the chips they’ve collected over the last half-century of work the group of them has done, and they’re losing out on the brand war to MMA (which is led by a 40 year old savage businessman) because they don’t want to engage in such a war.
Dana White took everything that was wrong with boxing and threw it out the window, and the fans saw this (even if it’s not entirely true, the fans PERCEIVE that Dana removed the undesirables from the model). He presented his product at the perfect time, and NONE of the Big Boys in boxing responded to the threat seriously. Which is a huge disservice to their audience (of which I was/sort of am a member currently), since they have allowed their sport to essentially become marginalized by one with less than a decade of real pedigree.
And yeah, Cung Le is pretty cool. I’m a bigger fan of the UFC’s product than Strikeforce, but I’m happy to see some competition in the marketplace.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Not necessarily in Britain
Not yet, anyway.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jun 8, 2010 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions
The former
You know, when two guys well trained and willing actually enter the ring alone to fight to see who is the better man that night. Those kind.
Just a few I care more about, at this point
Bradley – Alexander, Williams – Cotto II, Donaire – Darchinyan II, Marquez – Diaz II, Every matchup in the Super Six Classic…
I mean that’s just a few that have had “some” buildup that hasn’t fallen into the puke bucket just yet. I’d also rather push for shit like like Martinez /Solis and Maidana/Khan and Froch/Andrade and Juanma/Callabero/Gamboa. Cotto – Williams would be great. They like to fight. Cotto – Martinez would work. Pavlik – Bute would be one to watch.
Frankly, I almost care more about Klitschko – Haye (or Other Klitschko – Haye), although that buildup is also close to driving off the cliff. I’m just sick to death of hearing about Superstar/ Superstar, which might happen someday but will almost certainly happen past it’s time. Floyd and Manny are both great fighters, but they aren’t bigger than boxing.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
by jrok on Jun 7, 2010 12:21 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think Cotto-Williams/Martinez would be horrible for Cotto. The reach disparity alone is more than enough for me to think Cotto has no chance against either of those (much bigger) opponents.
Ricky Hatton came closer to beating Manny Pacquiao than Marquez did to beating Floyd.
-SC
by The Lethal Haze on Jun 7, 2010 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions
But
He WOULD fight either one of them. Miguel Cotto isn’t some guy who fights once a year and retires and then talks about how great he is. He would take either of those fights. We are talking about fighters who actually want to fight, here.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Yep.
OliGold summed it up recently when he described Cotto as one of the defining fighters of the last decade. I both;
1. Fully agree with that statement. and
2. Am sincerely glad Cotto is getting some props. He deserves them, and more.
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
that’s why I love Cotto – he absolutely does not need or even seem to really want the spotlight. he’s a fighter first.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
I'll co-sign this sentiment.
Cotto is a warrior in a way we don’t often see in high-level boxers any more. Hatton was, too.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Plus he learned to speak Englis which shows his tenacity and determination.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Incidental or intentional, this comment made me laugh.
Well done!
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
And remember, Yuri was starting to come on a bit befoe his injury.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
"Williams – Martinez II"
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Williams-Cotto II????
Is this a typo? Or do you know something I don’t?
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
Super Six has definitely created a very competitive format
Abraham Froch will be fun. Ward and Dirrell should be as well. Same with Bradley and Alexander. Khan and Maidana. Juanma and Gamboa all night long.
Cotto -williams would be a coin toss. Cotto Martinez a career ender for Miguel.
Hell I am more interested in seeing Saul Cinnamon Alvarez than I an reading about this no-go negotiatio!
Hell I am more interested in seeing Saul Cinnamon Alvarez than I an reading about this no-go negotiatio!
Exactly. This is what I am saying. I’d rather watch a weigh-in for Caballero vs. Raf Marquez then talk about “Manny vs. Floyd” anymore. And all the freaks who waddle in from the rafters to talk about who is winning the “PR war”… F’ them! This is all just raging bullshit now. No one cares right now except fools, liars, lawyers and press agents. And even they aren’t as excited anymore. This is textbook for how you kill a big fight. Just stupid.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Canelo is worth watching,
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
I like Canelo – I’m saying he’s from the St. Patricio regiment – an Irish Mexican until somebody proves otherwise. That hair and skin comes with a presumption of Irish in my book.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
Barragan is a Mexciacn name and it's pronounced BeriGAN. bUT RED HAIR IS PRETTY UNUSUAL.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
It’s not that unusual. I had a Mexican pard’ down in Baltimore who was red-headed with freckles! Straight out of Mexico City.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
He is 100% Mexican. I already did the research for another site.That Irsih sounding name is not an unusual Mexican name.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Then stay off ESB becaus ethat's all they talk about--that and the PED isse. Good God, how many times can you say the same thing?
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Sherdog is the same for MMA.
Don’t go into the comment sections for any reason, and try to avoid the articles also. Any/all of the MMA sites here on SBNation do the filtering for you…and to my knowledge haven’t omitted anything relevant.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
While Mayweather has managed to make Pacquiao seem like the "villain," the tide again seems to be turning.
I don’t agree with this statement. Manny and his team did it to themselves. They haven’t had any credible excuse for not taking the blood tests. A superstition, fear of needles, afraid of being weakened by the blood tests, etc……….. none of these issues support him. O.K. fine then lets have blood tests as long as they aren’t random and i know exactly when they will take place. I admit they are both of a bunch of assholes and no longer deserve our attention for many reasons but Manny is as much to blame for looking like the villain. Floyd isn’t a PR wizard, he legacy will always being question because of his conduct in the welterweight division where he did his best slipping,dodging, and shoulder rolling.
Re: While Mayweather has managed to make Pacquiao seem like the "villain," the tide again seems to be turning.
Actually Floyd has always been the villain in this case. It seems that only die hard Mayweather fans are on his side regarding the drug test issue. Most other fans see this as an excuse Floyd is using to get out of the fight. I like both fighters, but Floyd is the one who iniated this entire thing and it’s strange that he waited until he was about to face Pacquiao before making these demands. Now that Floyd has said he is going to retire it just adds to a heap of seemingly overwhelming evidence that something about Pacquiao really got inside of his head.
by solomonwisearse on Jun 7, 2010 6:46 AM EDT up reply actions
Floyd is the one who iniated this entire thing and it’s strange that he waited until he was about to face Pacquiao before making these demands.
Yup. Exactly.
Let’s follow another possible chain of events:
Floyd and Manny agree terms for the fight.
Floyd Sr pipes up about Manny Pacquiao.
Floyd Jr just shuts the fuck up and gets on with his job.
Fight between Manny Pacquaio and Floyd Mayweather Jr gets signed.
Biggest fight in history is made, and boxing fans are happy, as are both men, who get paid a shedload for their efforts.
Now, since Floyd violated the third stage of this process, and made an issue where there wasn’t one before, it astounds me how anyone can say this is Manny Pacquaio’s fault. I mean, seriously. If Floyd just did what Floyd has doen in every other fihgt of his career, and let the powers that be do their job instead of making up new rules,then the fight would have been done by now and we’d all be arguing about the validity of the split decision, or soemthing, rather than the bloody negotiations.
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
by Chaos100 on Jun 7, 2010 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Some(not me) say Floyd is doing this for boxing. Uh huh. I don't buy that. This entire thing smells of hype which equals more money.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
I honestly don't think Floyd wants the fight.
Manny represents the biggest threat to Floyd’s sacred ‘0’ right now, aside from Floyd moving up in weight again (which he won’t, because that represents a threat to his sacred ‘0’…). Floyd is happy to keep padding that record with smaller guys and old guys, rather than fight someone who represents a viable threat.
I think Manny wants the fight, but doesn’t want to go into the fight as the lesser of the two dance partners. Allowing Floyd to dictate terms is tantamount to admitting some sort of subservience, and I don’t think Manny needs the fight enough to go along with that. For one thing,it makes Floyd an even bigger favourite, as mentally Manny wouldn’t be in the same place as he would be were all things equal. Kind of like Clinton Woods agreeign to let Tarver come out second when they fought, I knew there and then that Woods was in trouble, allowing Tarver the role of ‘champion’ and reducing himself to the role of supporting cast…. Manny won’t make concessions that allow Floyd to assume a level of superiority over him, and I think that’s important.
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
I think he did want the fight
1. He was willing to split the fight 50-50. Floyd “Money” Mayweather who thinks he’s the biggest thing in boxing was actually willing to split a purse in half. Think about that for a second
2. He agreed to all the terms. I don’t know if he actually put pen to paper, but it appeared he was ready to.
I think it’s ridiculous that people label the drug testing as a means of getting out of the fight. If you are determined to get out of something you don’t gamble on the behavior of someone else. Basically Floyd was betting all of his chips on Manny saying No to the drug testing. All Manny had to do was say one word, “YES”, to spoil Floyd’s master plan of asking for random drug testing to get out of the fight. I would never guess that someone would be so opposed to the drawing of blood for millions of dollars. I get blood drawn once a year as a part of my yearly health exam. I also donate blood a few times a year as well. I don’t get paid for either. If someone wanted to pay me millions of dollars to do it, I’d stick the needle in myself.
I’ve said this before, and I’ll say it again. If Floyd didn’t truly want the fight he would have either not negotiated at all, or asked for a 60-40 split.
You are the one bringing up the issue of drug testing. Look, it takes two to tango.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Oh, now I see you are answering Chaos. My bad.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
One thing Manny COULD do is fight someone else and make the same demands before the fight. After
disposing of the victim, he could then call Mayweather out. It would save face all around.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
I am probably just a cynic,
but when Floyd came out immediately after the Cotto fight and said he wanted to get the fight signed (he came out that night, right?) I predicted the chain of events almost perfectly to my friends and family. I didn’t think it would hang up on drug testing, but I knew it would be some never-before-seen or wholly unexpected issue that would get raised late in the process which he would use as his exit.
He wanted everyone to believe that he was dying to get the fight done. Forgetting his actual motives, I’ve learned one thing is true without exception:
Whenever a politician tries to get you to believe one thing about them, assume that the opposite is true and act accordingly. Floyd is many things, and politician is apparently one of them.
Go ahead and come up with the 11 year old quips about how Manny’s the actual politician (so clever!), but the truth is that Mayweather is better suited for the job than Manny will ever be, and we saw it in action earlier this year.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
I seem to remember;
Didn’t you say something at the time about Floyd, and how the fact that he was agreeing so readily to the 50/50 seemed like a smokescreen?
May not have been you, but that’s how I now see it: Agree to everything to get ‘the crowd’ on your side, and then throw something in from left-field that Pacquaio had already said before (after the Morales fight) that he was superstitious about. The crowd see your ‘efforts’ to get the fight ‘made’, and exonerate you for the negotiation destroying extra, unprecedented demands that subsequently follow.
Floyd made the extra demands; Floyd was responsible for this fight breaking down. Any other way of looking at this seems illogical to me.
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
I'm pretty sure I voiced my opinion
on here when it all went down. Good memory, Chaos.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
All this subservience talk is BS!
People are acting like Floyd asked Manny to bow to him in the ring, or make him breakfast the next day if he won the fight.
Erod, no one is saying that. This is about their relative skills; not about the PED issue. I want no part of that because it has been ground into the dirt by both sides.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
I'm staying away from that.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Bow to him in the ring?
Make him breakfast the next day?
Aren’t these both examples of demands that Pacquaio do something he has never had to do before, and the implication of your post is that you feel both these things are unreasonable?
Isn’t it also unreasonable to demand Manny Pacquiao do something else he has never had to do before, that is required by none of the governing bodies, commmisions, or any other authority?
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
by Chaos100 on Jun 8, 2010 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ha!
Cleverly used, Chaos. I reckon I could turn it around it again, except that I agree with you! ^^
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jun 8, 2010 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions
You could try... ;)
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
Bad comparison...
You completely missed the point and created a nice strawman in the process.
I was addressing the subservience comment, not anything related to something unreasonable (straw man). I fail to see how asking a fighter to take drug tests that you will also take is making one subservient to the other. They are both doing it, so they are both at the same level. You can’t possibly think that agreeing to any demands of another fighter implies that the other is subservient on that basis alone. If that was the case negotiations would never get done as someone would always feel like the other one’s bitch. But anyway….
Aren’t these both examples of demands that Pacquaio do something he has never had to do before, and the implication of your post is that you feel both these things are unreasonable?
As I stated earlier, that wasn’t the point, but to answer the question they are unreasonable because they serve no purpose other then to belittle the other person. It simply doesn’t matter that he hasn’t done it before.
Now, before you start spouting off about how that’s exactly what Mayweather is doing, know that you are merely speculating about the motives of a person and that speculation has no basis in fact. It is merely your opinion based on your preconceived notions of what type of person Floyd Mayweather is. Why not just examine the merits of the request independent of our opinions of the person?
Isn’t it also unreasonable to demand Manny Pacquiao do something else he has never had to do before, that is required by none of the governing bodies, commmisions, or any other authority?
No, it’s not unreasonable at all IMO.
And how is “I haven’t done that before” a valid reason to reject anything?
It's like the Patriots demanding that the Colts
agree to gear inspections above and beyond the NFL standard, including potentially dismantling various player’s ‘lucky gear’ in order to determine if there is something wrong with it, which players have previously voiced objection to due to superstitions about good fortune.
And the worst part is, they waited until the week before the Superbowl to make the demand. It’s unprecedented, ignores the ‘league rules’ in favor of some completely arbitrary rules set determined by one team, and works to undermine a well-known human psychological weakness.
It doesn’t matter if it improves the sport. If it’s that important to you or to the team, then you/they should be campaigning for it before the pre-season begins and make the stand there, not waiting until a week before the Superbowl.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Jun 8, 2010 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
REC'D
well said. breaking down the chain of events, it’s obvious that this is Floyd’s undoing.
BTW, I’m going to steal this the next time I argue with the Mayweather fans at my gym.
Thank you.
I’m here all week. :)
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
They haven’t had any credible excuse for not taking the blood tests.
Floyd had no credible excuse for asking Manny to do something he had never had to do before.
This was enough of a reason for Manny to refuse, especially when considered alongside the fact that Manny was only following the rules, as laid out by the powers that be in the sport: Which DOES NOT include Floyd Fucking Mayweather. Jr.
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
Tru dat. A boxer should not have more power to dictate regulations than a commission--even though most
commissions are infested with hacks and political appointees who would not know a boxer from Uranus.(double entendre intended.)
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Why not?
If a fighter feels that the commission is not doing its job to adequately protect the fighters, why shouldn’t he be able to ask for it independently as part of the contract negotiations?
Then why have commissions? You raise a good point, but the lines of authority have to be clear--or maybe they
don’t. SRL certainly dictated terms to Hagler.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
For the protection of athletes
You need some amount of government regulation and oversight to prevent outright abuse in the sport. But, the commissions are still run by people who are inherently imperfect. They get things wrong from time to time.
I think adding on to the rules is ok given that it’s reasonable. I think removing from the rules is wrong (and possibly illegal).
Socialism
McCarthy not happy!
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jun 8, 2010 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions
For five bonus points, name the man to the left of McCarthy
andthe famous play that heavily featured him.
by Don From Prov on Jun 8, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Well,
that’s part one.
Pulitzer Prize winning play in which RC played a large part.
by Don From Prov on Jun 9, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I won't respond to a reply, so go ahead and nail me to the wall for this comment,
but if Floyd Mayweather Jr. honestly cared about the integrity of his sport, or the safety of its participants, he would have been on his soapbox about this issue since he won the fight against Oscar (the moment he truly became a mega-star). He wouldn’t have waited until faced with the stiffest possible fight of his career to play this particular card.
To my knowledge, he’s never made anything resembling a public campaign about the steroid policy in the sport of boxing.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
by misterjonez on Jun 7, 2010 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He has to start somewhere
People are always going to nitpick at this issue. He could have done more…he could have started earlier…blah blah blah.
He doesn't need a credible excuse
He can ask for any reasonable provisions as part of the negotiations provided it’s not expressly prohibited by law.
But even so, I think the increased drug testing is reasonable given the current climate of PED use in all sports.
Agreed, but I am not about to get into that discussion because it has been sated ad nauseum.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Muck Fayweather.
Manny by late KO.
If I wake up tomorrow and see that the world has ended, then that means God has finally granted my prayers.
GO Armageddon!!!
both sent Ricky Hatton into Manchester dreamland (but Floyd did it first)
What exactly is the significance of Mayweather having done it first? Why does that make it a better win? It can hardly be argued that Hatton was ruined by the Mayweather fight, or that he faded after it. If anything, he looked quite a bit better in his destruction of Malignaggi than he had before the Mayweather fight; seeming to be a more complete and intelligent boxer.
Mayweather schooled and dominated Marquez, but Marques was a n older fighter when he fought Mayweather
He was also ridiculously blown up and looked absolutely nothing like himself. He couldn’t pull the trigger at all and was very slow.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
Hatton's aura of invincibility was shattered by Floyd as was his head by the belt buckle, He was never the same. IMO
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Aura of invincibility?
I wasn’t really aware that Hatton had an aura of invincibility, especially not after his fight with Collazo!
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jun 7, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Had never lost and had never been waxed. When his head hit that corner, something changed right there and then.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Marquez is getting old. Thta's just a fact. The Diaz fight will not show us much because Juan is shot.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Of course Marquez is getting old
That’s just one reason that the fight was a sham. The versions of Marquez faced by Pacquiao and Mayweather were incredibly different, not just age-wise.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jun 7, 2010 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Pac will wax Marquez if they fight again. ,Mark my words.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
My belief is that if Manny fought Marquez
at WW, it would be a 3-4 round demolition. Worse than the last Morales fight by far.
If Manny came back down to 135, I think it’s closer but he still finishes it comfortably within the distance. He’s simply not the same fighter he was. He uses both hands, and has added those lead hooks from any position to his arsenal. The guy that last fought Marquez was still learning how to throw a traditional hook with any kind of authority.
The current version made me fear for Ricky Hatton’s life.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Great non-partisan article
It’s very refreshing to finally read a well research non biased article about both of these fighters. 90% of the garbage written about this possible megafight sounds like it was written by an angry 10 year old. Much like the author, I do doubt that this fight will take place because I get the feeling that Floyd doesn’t want to take the risk. There is no doubt however that both are top shelf fighters and this would be a close matchup. I enjoyed reading the breakdown of the 2 fighters. I agree that the combination of Floyd’s size & sharpshooting could be the difference. I would personally give the “common opponents” edge slightly to Pacquiao. It’s true that both Hatton & ODLH may have been damaged goods but I still can’t get over how impressive Pacquiao looked as he overwhelmingly dominated both fighters. Excellent article
Many thanks, wisearse
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
they have crested the point of diminishing interest
That’s some sweet shit Mr Prov. I’m with you and jrok on this psychoneurotic BS. Ted, your analysis rocks but man I’m over this superfight masquerade, which is a real piss off as I initially saw it as the second coming of Duran/Leonard; one of my favourite fights. Floyd, Manny, make the fight or get a day job.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
Manny doesn’t need a day job. He’s a bleeping politician. Who knows how much money he can make as a Representative.
Yo, I’m 6-11, but I just want to dribble through my legs and shoot jumpshots like a guard. - Marc Blucas on Tim Duncan
Great point $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
I don't think they have
the revolving door at work over there.
No segue into a K street millionaire for Manny.
He’d have to do it the old-fashioned way—bribes!
by Don From Prov on Jun 7, 2010 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you live here in the Philippines?
They’re up front about their political bribes, man. I’m not kidding you at all with this one, either…during elections, the candidates literally go door-to-door (or have their flunkies do it) and offer between 100 and 400 pesos per vote. And that’s for rural areas, local elections like Barangay Captain (which is like a miniature mayoral position) or for Mayor. National seats are even more, sometimes up to 1000 pesos (like $20-25).
There’s a reason this place has long held the title of ‘Most corrupt nation in Asia.’ Personally, I find it refreshing. It’s just being honest and forward about what all politicians do, no matter what country they’re in.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
HHmmmm. Corruption up front is honest! I like it!
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
yeah
the technique there is to get the bribe money, then vote for the other guy.
Oddly enough, the people here
take it fairly seriously. There’s a really interesting level of honest in this country…I’m guessing that’s why they can be so forward about their bribes and corruption.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
From fellow-writer Joe Rein via email
As always, Ted, enjoy your articles and breakdowns; the exhaustive research ’n your years of ring savvy to put it in perspective.
Curious as this may sound, agree with you right down the line but, bottom line, should they fight before they’re in convalescent homes, pick Pac to do the impossible. Logic says otherwise, but Pac’s catchin’ lightening in bottle.
Hope you’re feelin’ hardy,
j
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Manny has nothing to lose from the fight, either.
If he wins, it’s special. If he loses, it’s kind of predictable since he was going up against a guy at least as talented as he is who is naturally much bigger, AND a terribly stylistic matchup.
Floyd wins, it doesn’t mean all that much to me (it would certainly solidify his position as greatest fighter of his era). Manny wins, and it’s pretty special and historic.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Hey, that's a greatr new feature to show where the last post is. ThAnks, BLH
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
I just have a sense that it won't. Manny is off on a new direction and I don't think he would want to go to
the trouble of preparing for it. My bet is that he will fight one or two more times and then wrap it up. I won’t even venture a guess as to what Mayweather is all about or what his motives are. I do think his sense of self-importsnace is disprportionate to reality.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Now I'm off to Prov and Boston where Don from Prov and I will attend a monthy boxer's luncheon in
Dorchester where we are treated to lively tales of boxing from many great Boston area fighters from the past. It’s a blast and if anyone lives around Dorchester, join us at the Florian Hall at 11:99 am on Tuesday. Drinks on me.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Wish I could make it
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Indeed
Back from a couple weeks overseas
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
testing how to quote
What has he done to earn such a monster payday
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
ah, thanks Cutman. I got it down now..
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
skillz
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jun 7, 2010 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
As for the fight itself, if it happens:
I see Manny coming out, as usual, with his frenetic, swarm-of-bees punching style, and having some initial success, but also eating a lot of counter shots, including that tough straight right that Floyd is so proficient with. Manny will take an early round or two on enormous workrate as Floyd figures out what adjustments need to get made ,but then May will start to bank rounds with clean, effective counter-punching.
Then, in a flash, and just as we start to think that Floyd has the fight under control, we’ll witness what could be one of the greatest moments in boxing history: Manny will catch Floyd with a giant left or right hook that Floyd just won’t see coming, Floyd’s knees will buckle, a la the second round in the Mosley fight, and then…I have no idea. All bets are off. Either Manny does what Shane couldn’t, or he won’t. I really don’t know. If Floyd survives this (and I think this could happen more than once in the fight), he wins a decision. If not, Manny genuinely enters the discussion for greatest boxer of all time, having taken out Floyd by KO.
Then, a rematch.
by The Boxer Rebellion on Jun 7, 2010 12:15 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
As the legendary MRBILL would say, bbooooooooooIIIINNNGGGGGGGG!
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
That got the blood pumping a bit.
Nicely done.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Nice breakdown of the facts Ted! Your last two paragraph has me a lttle perplexed. It sounds like you are saying Floyd just has to much for Manny. Do you really thing Floyd can dominate enough to win a decision? Manny to me is just to fast,b ut what do I know I’ve never boxed like you have. :-)
hi guys, been following this site for a long time now – no bs i feel this is the real boxing site out there, was happy just readin your posts but had to break my silence and comment.
great article by the way! i think that manny being a southpaw is being overlooked, i think that mayweather style fits perfectly with southpaws (can’t see the right hook coming), i think that his shoulder rolls are not effective agains southpaws (unless he knows how to do it the opposite way). just my 2 cents, peace!
Pug, I quite bagree. This is a great site that tends to focus on boxing with no hate or flames or racism. It's clean and fresh.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Like Daz 3-in-1?
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
by Chaos100 on Jun 8, 2010 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I understand why most seem to be picking Floyd but am a bit suprised that a lot seem to think the result is a foregone conclusion.I see a close fight and not just because the bookmakers have it close.Over here in the UK the mean prices are around:-
8/11 Mayweather.
11/10 Pacquaio.
It doesn’t get much closer than that and the bookies aren’t usually far off the mark.
They are both special fighters but i’m just wondering if Pac has flattered to decieve a bit against DLH and Hatton,as Ted alluded to.He took the easier option at lightweight too but then showed that he could more or less shut out a top welter in Clottey,so maybe he is really as good as most of us think.
Mayweather has shown he does have weaknesses and if anyone can take advantage of those,it’s Manny IMO.
whats up guys
Hey guys new to the site. I come here a lot but never signed up to now. Got tired of wasting my time, energy, and valid points talking with ignorant people on yahoo blogs. Let me say this too, Im not interested in fitting in or going with the popular pick, or saying who I like for what reasons and who I dont like because of a possibility of upsetting someone….. But anyway since we’re on this topic, Roger Mayweather has just came out and said that Floyd has no intention on retiring and he wants the Pacqauio fight. And another thing, if Floyd was actually retiring dont you guys think that Bob Arum or Freddie Roach would have spilled the beans first. We all know Arum and Mayweather cant co-exist. So why wouldn’t Arum come out and blast Mayweather in the media if Floyd was actually retiring?? Arum would love to do that, but he didn’t because he knows its not true. If Floyd was retiring I think he would call a press conference on ESPN or something credible like that, not randomly do it on some amateur video thats only going to be seen on youtube.
Why would he say it at all if it wasn’t something that had crossed his mind? Was he making Make-a-Wish kids’ day brighter by saying he doesn’t want to fight the guy they just said they want to see him fight and that he’ll probably leave for a while?
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
The Make A Wish kid could’ve turned the tables on him and said “Please Floyd, I want to see you fight Manny before I die.” I mean he could’ve really put the screws to Mayweather when you think about it. That’s one classy kid.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
I'm 100% certain it was wrong
but i laughed.
by The Boxer Rebellion on Jun 7, 2010 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
No I mean it
He could’ve pulled the ultimate Ace card. If I was that Make A Wish kid, I’m not sure I wouldn’t have pulled it.
Of course Floyd might’ve said just something like “try to hang on until the money’s right.”
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
by jrok on Jun 7, 2010 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I can actually see Floyd saying that.
That’s a rec.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
That's eerily similar to the way I think he'd respond too.
“I don’t fight for cancer patients, I fight for cheques….”
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
Hey Floorer, welcome aboard. This is agreat site with great fans and posters.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Outcome
As far as the outcome of Pacqauio-Mayweather, I have it like this… Manny has a puncher’s chance, and thats about it. Thats not saying he has no skills, think about, what fighter right now can you name who wouldn’t only have a puncher’s chance against Floyd??? Nobody is going to out point him if the fight goes the distance. I think it will be the same as when Floyd fought Mosley. Shane had a puncher’s chance, and he knew if it went to the cards it was over. I do believe that Pacqauio will be more competitive than Mosley. Reasons are there is more bad blood between the two. The last person that Pacqauio wants to lose to is Mayweather after everyting that has transpired over the last year. I do believe that Pacqauio is quicker than Mosley and more athletic, his endurance is better than Mosley and to top it off, he’s left-handed. So those points alone tells me that it will be a more difficult fight than the Mosley fight. I dont think age has anything to do with it, Mayweather was just better than Shane. I dont belive for one second that Shane grew old sitting on his stool in between rounds 2-3. Mayweather made the proper adjustments. But I see the Pacqauio-Mayweather fight going something like Pacqauio starting off the fight pressing Mayweather rounds 1-3, while Mayweather is trying to get a feel for the southpaws style. I think Manny may come out a little too fired up looking for an early stoppage with a lot of swings some missing and some hitting mayweather’s gloves. I think around rounds 5-6 Mayweather earns Pacqauio’s respect and Pacqauio stops rushing in. I think by Manny being southpaw is a benefit for him as well as maybe his achilles heel. Yes the southpaw stance will trouble Floyd, but it will also leave Manny open for Floyd’s favorite punch, straight right hand. I see Manny getting tagged with that punch repeatedly. I think around rounds 9-10 will tell all, I see Roach telling Manny to go for it,(meaning the KO) either he’ll land a vicious left-hand on Floyd and put him down, or he’ll charge in and get check-hooked like Floyd did Hatton and he’ll get put down. Whoever lands will win… Believe me, this fight wont go 12… Im betting on Floyd.
I'll agree that this thing doesn't go the distance.
There’s just no way Pacquiao wilts like Mosley did, and really that’s the only way this goes to decision. I think Manny goes out on his shield and holds his head high afterward (if he were to lose, which I don’t think is the outcome).
Floyd would have to deal with R1/R2 of Mosley all night. I’m not saying he couldn’t overcome it, but that’s what he’s going to have to deal with if he fights Manny.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
A suggestion:
And this is friendly, and well meant….
Please could you try splitting your posts into paragraphs? It makes the whole thing easier to both read and understand.
Thanks. :)
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
Snap!
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jun 8, 2010 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions
No offense
But, paragpaphing is a great help for reading those long posts. Walls of words are just will sapping.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jun 8, 2010 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions
It could definitely go 12...
..if Floyd goes into cruise control…potshotting and landing at will…
That suggests a talent disparity
in footwork and handspeed that I don’t think exists. Manny isn’t going to try to survive, so Floyd won’t get the option to potshot. Manny’s a pretty effective mix of smart and stupid, and I think it’s that mix which would propel him forward for the entire fight.
Mayweather might KO him with perfect timing on counter straight rights, but Manny isn’t going to let him dance away and win a lengthy boxing match. At least, there’s nothing in his performance record to suggest that he would do so.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Defense,Counter punching, and Ring IQ
..is where the disparity lies and once Floyd makes the correct adjustments, which he will, the fight will be over at that time. I just don’t see Manny winning this fight. Mayweather is not only physically skilled, but his in-ring mental process is something that gets overlooked. He seems to always figure out his opponents.
I just don't think that you can point to one fighters advantages
and assume the fight will go his way simply because he’s very good/great and all of his previous fights have gone his way. You have to look at styles and toolset matchups.
I agree on defense and counterpunching, and I MIGHT be persuaded to agree that effective speed goes to Mayweather by a hair if he solely relies on counterpunching all night. But angles, volume, footspeed and killer instinct all go to Manny. If Manny gets Floyd hurt, he will finish him. Floyd, we don’t know for sure if he’d risk it to finish Manny.
I mean, I think Floyd is one of the best pure counter-fighters in the history of the sport, and traditionally counter-fighters have an easier path to victory once they’ve honed their craft. Pacquiao’s a little different breed from your average volume/speed guy, though. I can see the fight going in a few directions.
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
Why Floyd said what he said
I dont know why he said it, Im not in Floyd’s head. All I can tell you is that ESPN, ESPN NEWS, Fox News or any other credible news station has not entertained it by speaking on it or making a story about it.
Either Mayweather on points or Manny by early kayo . Nice writeup Ted . As many of the old scfholl here have already posted Im over both of them . Roach invariably picks blokes with no right hand ( DeLaHoya ,Hatton , Cotto , Clottey ) to face the southpaw Manny while Mayweathers cherry picking is on an even more impressive scale . Mayweather weighed 150 when he fought Oscar and then faced Hatton who was a 140 pound fighter . Then Floyd faces a natural 126-130 pound fighter in Marquez who had already looked eminently beatable in his fights at 135. Then Floyd cheats at the weigh in . Finally Floyd faces a 38 year old welterweight in Mosely who was at his best 10 years ago . The old man nearly got Floyd in the second round . Im sick of both of em , give me the Super Six anyday . The quality might not be as high but the matchups are great which is what boxing should be about . Cheers Blokes .
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. " Hunter S Thompson.
by JC40 on Jun 7, 2010 7:41 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Same here, Floorer
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Fron Sherrif Ray Gordon Reid via email
GOOD MONDAY TED MAYWEATHER MANNY PAC SARES BRICKHAUS SCOT CHRIST RAY BADLEFTHOOK REID JANUARY1/11/1955 ANOTHER GREAT ARTICLE DONE THE MASTER WHEN YOUR BOOK COMING OUT I HAD YURI FOREMAN OVER MIGUEL COTTO AS EVERYBODY KNOW IM NOT A FLOYD MAYWEATHER FAN GOT MANNY PAC BYE ALLAN GREEN ANDRE WARD IF THE YEVER GET FIGHT PLACE DONE ARTHUR ABRAHAM OVER CARL FROCH BRICKHAUS SCOTT CHRIST YOU GUYS ARE GREAT
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Blame Both
Manny and Mayweather are both responsible for the fallout. Yes, Mayweather is moreso responsible. But, all the blame does not fall on him. Lets not forget, Paqiaou fought CLOTTEY! and no one is giving him shit. Mayweather fights Baldomir and marquez and everyone jumps on him. Its the SAME THING. Just different public views cause different reactions. On another note, for Pacman to win he has to be first, fast and connect. If Pacmans speed and jump are off, floyd will catch him VERY EASILY. Pac man fires with a straight back for many punches, perfect for floyd. I got Floyd UD.
No, it really isn’t the “SAME THING”. Clottey is better than Baldomir and WW Marquez, and Clottey was also the best available opponent after the fight with Mayweather broke down, which neither Baldomir nor Marquez were at the time Mayweather fought them.
sorry man
But there is no way clottey is betterthan Baldomir or Maarquez. Both proven champions. And like floorer said, Bladomir beat Judah. A tough opponet. We need to stop overwhelming Mannys greatness.
Lightweight Marquez>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clottey
Clottey>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>WW Marquez.
I’m not even sure that’s debatable.
by The Boxer Rebellion on Jun 9, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Indeed.
And seeing as how a pre-prime Clottey actually would have beaten a prime Baldomir head-to-head had he not been wrongly DQ’d by the ref, I think we can say Clottey is pretty clearly better than Baldomir as well.
oh yeah
i forgot they fought. but pacman and mayweather had better options at the time. a replacement for clottey…berto or collazo. was berto still tied up at the time?
yep.
The fight between clottey and pac was signed on.. Jan.13, i guess? Berto was supposed to fight Mosley on the 30th, but then that bout was canceled a week later. Berto was not available that time.
Collazo? I don’t think he’s better than Clottey.
by garapataman on Jun 10, 2010 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Welcome abaord Front!
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Nathan, I hope you like Vrnon Paris
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Yeah
He boxes in Kronk dearborn, i seem him now and then when we go to spar. i like domonique dolton better.
by FrontHandMan on Jun 9, 2010 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks for the tip on Dalton.
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Disagree
I dont think Clottey is a good fighter or that he is that much better than Baldomir. Joshua Clottey has lost EVERY meaningful fight of his career. He had a chance to fight for the title and make history in the biggest fight of his career, a fight that other fighters are dying to get, and what does he do, go out there and stink it up. Im sorry, Im not giving Clottey any respect.
You put me in the ring with Pacqauio for a chance to make history and millions of dollars, Im gonna let my hands go. I might get KO’D in the 1st or 2nd round, but atleast nobody will question my heart, dedication, toughness, and if I agreed on taking a dive when the fight is over.
Back to Baldomir, if you have been paying close attention to boxing over the past couple of years, Mayweather didn’t want to fight Baldomir for the same reason that people criticize Baldomir, saying that he’s a bum. Mayweather opted to fight Zab Judah instead of Baldomir even though Baldomir beat Judah and took his title. Mayweather caught so much flack for doing that. Brian Kenny had an interview with Mayweather and just kept on hammering, “why not fight Baldomir, he’s the champ”" Zab Judah lost, fight Baldomir, the winner". He’s the champ. So after Mayweather beat Judah he took the Baldomir fight, beat him, and still catches flack for fighting the guy people said he was ducking. I dont get it.
Its the same thing with Mosley, everybody,“fight Mosley”. Emanuel Steward," he has to fight Mosley, then I’ll give him credit". Max Kellerman, “Floyd fight Mosley”. Brian Kenny, “Why not fight Shane Mosley”? Mosley gets in the ring takes the mic and calls out Mayweather on TV. Everybody, “Floyd will never fight Mosley” Mosley will kill him. He’ll never do it, He’ll never do it. Floyd takes the fight, not only beats, but embarrasses him and has his corner man threatining to stop the fight. And as soon as the fight is over,"Im not giving him no credit. Mosley was this, Mosley was that.
Its like you want him to fight guys who are supposed to be his equal or better, than he beats them, and then its always a excuse or reason why he won other than his skills were superior to his opponents.
But like I said about Clottey, if he never gets another shot at a title or a pay-per-view fight or even another fight on HBO, it’ll be too soon.
After that payday, he may never need another fight. Manny has become like Oscar. You fight him and win or lose, you
really win! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Well, those who didn’t give Mayweather the credit he deserves after the Mosley fight are real “haters”. As far as I know, everyone in this site gave him full credit. When he was rocked in that 2nd round, he planted his feet and fought back. Well, there’s the “Mosley-can’t-pull-the-trigger” arguments, but the fact of the matter is, Mayweather fought back and delivered the action.
by garapataman on Jun 10, 2010 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions
From a friend in Germany via email. I am trying to get him on BLH
Hi tedsares,
Many thanx for this hint. I really enjoyed reading it several times. It was like some of the ancient articles out of "the Ring" magazine from the 80s and 90s, when I’ve received them every month. I never can read such knowledgeable, if not to say scientific analysis here in a German Boxing magazine, nor in a German web-site. That’s the reason why I’m looking for the subject of Boxing only out of Britain and USA (and other in the English language).
Personally I like Manny much over Floyd. Money is much too loud-mouthed for me. I think of Manny as the true warrior, who has everything achieved by working the old-school hard way. But of course that preference of me would not have any effect on my analysis. One can’t ignore facts because they would not support his favourite man. And I have to prove my thoughts, if they fit to reality and not acknowledge reality only if it supports my meanings.
So, I consider Your conclusions as correct basically.
There are just a few, but important factors which I weight a bit differently. And that could make the difference.
Manny´s lefties style will work for him. He has several exceptionally good moves, which makes him very special. Floyd has no big problem with lefties, but Manny´s special combos and moves that Freddie teached him will give him much trouble.
Freddie navigated Manny through the fights, not taking too much risks. Thus Manny´s record might look a bit better than it actually is. But Freddie does know this. He will take care that Manny will not be over-confident. And I´m sure Freddie will develop the best possible game-plane.
In my mind the outcome will see Pac-man win a close decision.
Keep punching
Benno
Don't pick a fight with an old man, If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.
Good points
I enjoy the fact that even people who are not necessarily fans of one fighter can still hold quite polarised views on the outcome of the fight.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jun 13, 2010 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
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