The Mount Rushmore of Boxing
by John Genco on Jul 14, 2010 10:25 AM EDT
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PrintGeorge Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Theodore Roosevelt and Abraham Lincoln have had their iconic faces carved out of the Black Hills of South Dakota. The four former United States presidents were chosen to represent American history and America’s cultural heritage in a monument known as Mount Rushmore.
What four boxers would be on the world of boxing's Mount Rushmore? A Mount Punchmore if you will. It is not limited to just Americans or even just champions or even just boxers. It can be trainers, promoters, TV execs and so on. Who should represent boxing history and boxing's cultural heritage?
1) At one time the most famous man in the world. He was as recognizable as the symbol for Coke. He was Michael Jackson before Michael Jackson. Jordan before Jordan. Any boxing monument without this man would illicit the same question from every visitor...where's Ali? Just to avoid such criticism the self-proclaimed "greatest" must be carved in.
He was a gold medal winner. A three-time heavyweight champion when being the heavyweight champion meant everything. He was the catalysis for 3 of the biggest fights in boxing history. He brought trash talk to legitimate sports. His views and musings made him a cultural icon inside and outside the ring.
The man is still revered today as a sporting figure, cultural figure and sympathetic figure. Boxing's most famous champion suffering from boxing's biggest criticism. He was Ring Magazine's boxer of the year more times than any other fighter. This young man rumbled to participating in more Ring magazine's fight of the year than any other fighter. The stinging Butterfly has beaten 7 other hall of famers. The pretty Muhammad Ali has his young round face on Pugilists Point.
2) This fearsome champion generated the first million dollar gate. Cities came to a halt to listen to his bouts. He was one of the riches athletes of his time. But most importantly, he changed boxing into what it is known for today, changed it to what fans now love about boxing. This Scowler took the sport from slow and calculating, men posing, and looking defense first. To ferocious aggression, ripping massive combinations meant to maim and KO. This was at a time when fighters normally looked to toss one punch at a time and allow the rounds to accumulate almost as quickly as the punches thrown.
This Mauler was vicious. He was brutal. He was what a champion came to be known for. Any KO artist is an offshoot of this transcending champion. He changed the sport forever, for the good and without that change, the sport does not reach the heights it has. Jack Dempsey's worn and intimidating face fits perfectly into the stone on Mount Sweet Science.
3) This man was so good he was the reason the pound-for-pound list was created. When the heavyweight champion was just assumed to be the best in the world, he was so good that there had to be a way to illustrate who was really the very best.
He is the real "Greatest." He beat at least 7 hall of famers. This sweet boxer could also really punch and ruled as a welterweight champ. Then as a middleweight champ. He went as far up as to challenge at light heavy. Fought well, but could not sustain and ultimately lost the bout. He's almost unanimously considered the best to ever to stick both hands into leather. Not too much reason to go on too much longer because Sugar Ray Robinson is chiseled into Mount Macho.
4) This man fought them all. At a time when boxers protected their records more than their bank accounts. This champion fought roughly 8 or so current or future Hall of famers. He came up at a time when the heavies made all the real money. But he ended up out-drawing them all, producing nearly 700 million in pay-per-view cash.
With all the great Hispanic fighters that have graced the pound-for-pounds, this pretty boy is the only one to make the mountain. He was a champion in 6 separate weight classes. He owns the most successful promotional company of any former fighter, or athlete. And to avoid every lady dragged to boxing's great monument asking, where's Oscar, his features must be featured. And if a boxer's face is going to be carved 50 ft high it might as well be Oscar De La Hoya.
There it is, a Mount Olympus of boxing. A mountain of greatness. The four most deserving boxers to represent boxing history and boxing's culture. Get the dynamite ready, but no, Kid Dynamite did not make the mountain. Start searching for the granite to carve out the granite chins. And yes, it is regrettable that "Hands of Stone" didn't make it, Rocky Marciano just missed, and obviously no Hasim Rahman.
(created off an idea from a sports network)-Genco
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Obviously it should be four Floyd Mayweather heads, each with a different facial expression. You can have Obnoxious Floyd, Crying Floyd, Magnanimous Floyd, and Dumbstruck Floyd.
by taco pal on Jul 14, 2010 10:58 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Haha!!!
Although these would be known to Floyd as “Great Floyd”, “Amazing Floyd”, “Unbeaten Floyd”, and “Pay-Per-View Attraction Floyd”…..
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
good stuff
funny!
Floyd holding up a fan of money.
Floyd counting money.
Floyd throwing money in the air.
Floyd searching for money in the couch.
Ali and Robinson are no-brainers
I’d propose Jack Johnson for the third, not because of his greatness in the ring, but because of his general contribution to society as a mold-breaker. The fourth is tougher. But if there’s anyone who’s embodied the sweet science as such, it’s probably Willie Pep.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I was thinking Pep....
But I’d probably go for:
Sugar Ray Robinson, the guy who made people realise that the best fighter wasn’t necessarily the biggest fighter…
Mike Tyson. Controversial, maybe, but there was no bigger name in sport in the late Eighties/early Nineties. Tyson was boxing at that point in time, at least to Joe Public.
Jack Johnson. The man who showed that race issues had no place in boxing. It’s two guys in there, and that’s all there is to it. Johnson brought that home to a lot of people, and had he never been around then the face of boxing might be different, even today.
Archie Moore. The guy at the #1 position in the Boxrec P4P all time rankings, and by a distance too. In fact, having Moore, Robinson, Ali and Louis as the chosen 4 wouldn’t be a bad idea, since they are the top 4 on that list (even though I don’t agree with the list….).
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
Or maybe go for a chronological progression:
Something like:
John L.Sullivan
Joe Louis
Sugar Ray Robinson
Roberto Duran (or Oscar, or Manny Pacquaio, or maybe even a Tommy Hearns style guy, that shunned weight classes and just fought guys through the divisions….)
Something like that might work, anyway, even if the names I’ve chosen aren’t the most suitable.
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
chronological progression
your chronological progression is a great list. but give it all to us, make a choice, duran, oscar, Manny or Hearns on that mountain? Come on. I’m putting you on the spot. Which one?
Probably Duran, out of those.
If you ask in a couple of years, I probably go with Pacquaio.
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
Or maybe Roy Jones... :)
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
I agree with your first three, but would go with Ali for the fourth. I’m critical of Ali in certain respects, but the man was just so important to the sport.
I know what you mean, but I was trying to get someone in from the last 25 years or so.
Hence Duran, Pacquaio, et al being the ones mentioned.
You could even split the last century into quarters, and have the most influential guy from each quarter on there.
I’d still suggest Sullivan would be there, maybe not though since Jack Johnson would provide stiff competition. Louis and Robinson compete for the second quarter, Ali might be a wash for the third, and probably Tyson for the fourth since he was such a massive name and influence. Maybe Roy Jones gets in there ahead of him. Then again, maybe others would argue that other names were more important than Tyson in the fourth quarter.
Here’s one from left field… Don King for the fourth quarter…. no-one said it HAD to be a fighter, right? ;)
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
I could certainly go with Duran instead of Pep
Sullivan is a good shout as well, though I’m not sure who I’d have him replace. If you were to put the four most publicly significant boxers ever up there , they’d all be heavyweights (I can’t narrow it to four, but the biggest public figures would probably be Sullivan, Johnson, Louis, Dempsey, Ali and Tyson), which sort of bothers me.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Chaos
Those are really forward thinking with the tyson, and moore. Really something to think about for me. Your points are true enough, but I don’t know if they are enough for me to move Oscar out.
And again, the qualifications are contributions to boxing history and boxing’s culture, not who is the best. Moore was great, but did he mean more than Oscar or Dempsey?
I don't honestly know, not having been there.
I’m just offering suggestions.
I do believe that Tyson pretty much single-handedly brought boxing back to the mainstream in the late eighties, and Oscar kept it there during the 90’s. Would there have been a niche for Oscar without Tyson? I don’t know, but I suspect that Oscar owes Tyson a lot more than people think.
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
I just read your post again....
I completely missed your mention of Johnson. Thought I was the first to mention him. I kind of read it the first time and went “la la la la la la la Willie Pep. I’d thought about Pep….”
:)
I also don’t agree on Ali being a no-brainer. I do not buy into the Ali thing. Sorry.
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
Johnson
Yes, Johnson was in and out of my 4, then back in and out again. I felt I had to have a hispanic fighter b/c they have meant so much to the culture of boxing.
And I felt Ali kind of, sort of, kind of, represented a kind of, sort of, like a Jack Johnson mold breaker, but you are right to say Johnson deserves to be there.
Willie Pep is a good one. For whatever reason, I just have never fully gotten my head all the way around Pep. But that is a sound, sound four you have chosen.
I felt I had to have a hispanic fighter b/c they have meant so much to the culture of boxing.
I agree with yourpoint, but this kind of reminds me of the time when the English FA decided to bring out a book which celebrated the best ever players to play for England… about 5 minutes after publication someone said, “but there’s no black players, this must be racist!!” and the FA backtracked saying the list was provisional (which was strange since the book had already been published….). Anyhow, those that got on the racist bandwagon really ran with it, but those who were being objective kind of looked at each other and said, “surely it would be more racist to simply include an unworthy player due to his race?”
I remember reading an article which highlighted the issue (might have been Steven Howard that wrote it) and he asked the question, “Which black players, had they been white, would have made the list?” The answer was none, on reflection, or maybe a couple of arguable cases, but no-one that should have replaced Bobby Moore, or Alan Shearer, or Paul Gascoigne. The fact was that as individuals, all other things being equal, they weren’t worthy of a place in that book, but due to the ‘politically correct’ drive the book was revised and the new list had black players in it.
I suppose what I’m saying is:
IF the best four are all black, then lets have 4 black guys. If they’re all white or Hispanic, let’s have 4 white or Hispanic guys. Black footballers have contributed lots to English football, but I don’t think I’d have a single black player in my all-time England XI.
The only exception to this rule, for me, in boxing, is Jack Johnson. He is part of the reason that we can even have these debates about equality, and as such a prominent cultural and historical icon of the sport, I think it would be remiss not to include him.
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
Political correctness has gone mad these day's
agree with you completly
by Sweet science on Jul 14, 2010 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
yes I abhor that kind of thinking
but what I was saying was, if you can, seperate race and culture here. The hispanic culture has been such a giant part of boxing culture, its contrubution needs to acknowledged. Yes, there have been more popular (JCC), but none more important.
For the same reason many say Jack Johnson should be on it, it is kind of the same for Oscar. That a hispanic can be the biggest draw in the world. the most succesful in the world cannot be denied his due and with it comes the hispanic culture.
So I think we missed on what I was trying to say, when I made that statement. It was a lazy statement, but not a lazy thought. Just no worded properly and fully. For the record I agree with your response. And putting Oscar on it is not to be PC. It is to acknowledge, the man, the culture that to me is important enough to be in the top four representing boxing history and boxing’s culture.
The hispanic culture has been such a giant part of boxing culture, its contrubution needs to acknowledged.
No. It doesn’t. If the best four guys are black, white, green or purple with little fluffy poofballs on them, I don’t give a shit. How can you say you ‘abhor’ this kind of thinking and then exacerbate it? If the most deserving guy is Hispanic, then put him in. If there is a more deserving white/black guy, then you don’t pick the Hispanic guy because of a ‘cultural contribution’.
In other words, black footballers have contributed massively to English football. Let’s stick an arbitrary figure on it, of say… 27%. That does NOT mean that I should then include 3 black players in my all-time England team, if the best XI, individually, are all white.
And I like reading your stuff, I genuinely do. You have some really good, original ideas, and your enthusiasm comes through really well. But if you compare the cultural effects on boxing made by Jack Johnson and Oscar De La Hoya again, I might just ban you. (I’m kidding, of course….)
If you really think that Oscar ‘represents’ Hispanic culture in the way your fourth paragraph suggests, then I’m surprised. I lived in Mexico for a year, and still speak to a few guys from there occasionally. Those guys do NOT like Oscar. Maybe it has something to do with him beating the bones of Julio Cesar Chavez. Maybe it has something to do with his catastrophic decision to observe the reaction to that fight, and then make the decision to go and do it AGAIN. I don’t know. AlI know is that they definitely do not regard Oscar as being Mexican, as much as he tries to play up to that.
I still maintain that even if Oscar is some sort of ‘cultural representative’, then as an individual he doesn’t get on that list for me. I also think that despite your protestations, promoting a fighter above another on grounds of race, culture, or nationality is unacceptable. The most worthy guys would be eligible for my Rushmore, based on what they did rather than where they were born.
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
I think a distinction here is that we’re not making a list of the four best boxers of all time. We’re making a list of the four boxers who are the greatest representatives of the sport’s heritage. If we were doing the former, I would agree that race and nationality wouldn’t play much of a role. Since we are doing the latter, we need to keep in mind that our feelings about “heritage” are unavoidably filtered through our own parochial cultural lenses, and in order to really get an accurate view, we need to consider how people from other cultures may have been impacted differently than we were.
Right, but in absolute terms:
4 guys must have made the most impact on the sport in the sport’s history, right? Whether that be in the US, Europe, Asia, whatever. The 4 most suitable guys, however you dress it up, should be the guys on the side of a mountain, rather than selecting four guys and then promoting someone over one of them, muttering under your breath, “must have a Hispanic, must have a Hispanic…..”
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
And I absolutely know we're not talking about the four best of all time.
Otherwise I wouldn’t be suggesting putting Jack Johnson in there, would I now?
Come on pal, get with the program… ;)
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
my last ditch effort
What I think we have here is a failure to communicate. I see your point. I really do. But I’m not sure you are catching mine, to no fault of your own I’m sure. I’m trying to state it more clearly, so here I go again…
We are talking boxing history and boxing’s culture. You spoke in soccer terms earlier. And I agree with what you said, but allow me to talk in baseball terms. If baseball had a mount rushmore. (it would need to be more than four b/c 9 position players, relievers, so on. So lets say 10 is to go up there.
You would have to look at the Dominicans and their culture. They are maybe the most passionate of all baseball fans. That culture is overwhelmingly tied to baseball. They produce great players. To tell the story of baseball without mention of the Dominicans’ obbsession would make the story incomplete. And there are enough great ones who may be worthy(????)
As to visually tell about the culture of boxing with mention of the hispanic culture would be incomplete, but not at the expense of just putting a Hispanic up to “represent.” Oscar as a fighter does not make the mountain, but Oscar as a fiscal juggernaught does. Oscar as maybe the most important figure of last 25 or so years does. (popularity + promotional company) And most importantly the most popular fighter comes from the most passionate fan base. He, they, the combo of the two must be included.
Yes, Jack Johnson broke barriers as did others including Ali. Not to diminish what JJ did. Just saying. So, to tell the story of boxing with out some sort of inclusion of the struggle for equality of blacks within boxing’s culture would also make it incomplete. Ali and JJ could be up there, but for me I chose Ali and Oscar. In some small way Ali was the moderen JJ. In some small way he represents JJ.
Thanks for the time to read all this.
Oscar as a fighter does not make the mountain, but Oscar as a fiscal juggernaught does. Oscar as maybe the most important figure of last 25 or so years does.
Over Tyson? Seriously?
Without Tyson, there would have been no Oscar.
Oscar also did not really pioneer ‘his’ culture’s impact upon boxing, or even really contribute to the process which got Hispanics recognized as a massive part of the sport. There have been great Hispanic fighters for 100 years.
Without Oscar, we wouldn’t really be missing anything. The face of boxing would remain the same, pretty much. Can you say that had Johnson never existed, boxing would look the same today as it does?
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
Jack Johnson
Jack Johnson seems a lot more deserving of inclusion than racist Jack Dempsey. Imo, Johnson is the first and maybe the greatest all time Black athlete: He beat the best, he held the title for 7 yrs, no flash in the pan, and was a spectacular boxer way ahead of his time—and he did this against odds so stacked against him that most of us have trouble wrapping our heads around it. Without him, Sugar Ray Robinson, Joe Louis, and Muhammad Ali would not have existed as we know them. Also, I would trade Joe Louis for Ray Robinson tho’ some consider Robinson the better boxer—the 2nd Schmeling fight alone qualifies Louis for Rushmore status—Louis was not only a great boxer, he touched the world. It seems to me they’ve got to touch the world to make it onto Rushmore. Here’s to DLH’s inclusion—his skills and looks have done A LOT for keeping boxing alive, and being a force in mainstreaming Hispanic-Americans generally. And I don’t think we’d still have boxing without them.
by BoxAnne on Jul 14, 2010 3:44 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
racist Jack Dempsey
I’m not saying this is something to admire about Dempsey (clearly it is not), but it’s a little too easy to cast stones at a man born in 1893 for being racist against blacks, and it accomplishes nothing. He was not the only one, not even unique among his peers. It was an incredibly different time and unless you are far, far older than I suspect, neither you nor I can imagine it. It’s terrible that it was that way, and a goddamn shame that some very deserving men never got their proper due, but I hesitate to villainize Dempsey as a person more than society as a whole.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 14, 2010 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
BoxAnne
nicely thought out. Strong points and knowledge, and to take Dempsey off may not be without merit depending on your point of view. But to call him a racist, but then a few sentences later mention Ali without labeling him a racist is unfair. It may not excuse Dempsey’s views (I don’t know of them, but without researching it, I’ll just go by what you said and having SC not deny it gives it credibility) but many of those men and woman were just victims of their time period. Again, doesn’t make it right.
But Ali has declared hatred of whites, and blacks that are too close to whites. At I time when races were coming together, marching together, fighting together. He was pulling them apart. He was a hate monger. Whether people want to face it or not. So, for you to call out Dempsey but not Ali, gives me pause and makes me skeptical of your position.
Ali, Dempsey, race
Point well taken, didn’t mean to trash Jack Dempsey, exactly, I understand that he was just a product of his racist time, but by all accounts he was an especially virurent one (I’m probably older than you think, and was blessed with relatives so elderly that they indeed did have living memory of Dempsey, and talked about him). However, neither can I accept any notion of Ali as a racist—he was just good and sick of being victimized by racism, at a very tense time in American history. I’m not sure it’s right to accuse any person of racism, who is reacting to being victimized by racism his/herself, even if it had led to occasional verbal excess. Ali never, ever, declared, preached or sponsored or in any way backed hatred or outside-the-ring violence of any kind. And I’m not so sure it’s accurate to say people were coming together and Ali was pulling them apart—college kids and civil rights workers were doing their best to redeem America, but the entire power structure was was WAY against black progress. To call Ali or anyone else fighting back against what black Americans endured a racist, imo, is to victimize the victim.
by BoxAnne on Jul 14, 2010 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He said what he said...
Ali said to kill those whites that dated blacks and kill the blacks who dated the white devils. He said that. No if ands or buts. And I’m sure he said other hate-filled ideas. I don’t have any text at my disposal right now, so I don’t want to go off on what I believe he said, or just off some stuff on the internet. so I’ll leave it at that. I’m not claiming he feels like that now. Or really if he ever really did, but he said it. And I’m certain it did damage to the cause of equality.
But good to hear from you on this topic. I look forward to hearing more from you on this and any other topics we might touch.
A quick take
On 4 boxers who embody the Sport. The 1st two are easy for me.
1. Ali – A casual fan who thinks of boxing, chances are that his next thought will be of Ali. He has to be on there
2. SRR. Simply put, the greatest of them all
3. these will take some thought. A boxer who embodies, personifies boxing. I feel there should be a spot for a fighter who didn’t have great talent, but no matter what, left it all in the ring, and while he didn’t always prevail, was always in a war, always gave the fans their money’s worth. So my pick is Gatti, or at least someone of that mould.
4. Im having trouble choosing this one so im gunna choose one that maybe I wouldn’t put on, but just looking at it from a different perspective.
Rocky Marciano – Why you ask! Well what do all boxers starting out their career aspire to be at the end of it? Undefeated, and as the only undefeated heavyweight champion, maybe he’s worth a shout.
Marciano
Rocky is my favorite fighter of all time. I wanted to put him up, but could not justify it. I wanted to, but couldn’t make it work for me. But I like the angle of undefeated and everyone aspiring to be so. As a kind of standard to look towards. I like it. And Gatti could work, cause he was as tough as the rock they’d carved the faces out of.
I also considered Marciano.
He would be a worthy addition to any list, but I decided that others embodied what I was looking for more than he did.
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
Rocky Marciano
Rocky Marciano was the very loved face of boxing in my childhood, and inspired love in me for the sport—but I’m not sure he could be said to have touched the world. Just our hearts, in the ’50s.
marciano, louis, robinson, pep…..ali i guess. ali way back in the shows or something. kinda like how drummers are on old records.
id put guys armstrong and greb (1 and 3 in my all time great list) in my personal mt. rushmore but not many will know who they were. my other two would be marciano and louis.
i love dempsey but hes pretty overrated imo.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
show=shadows btw.
wtf shows?
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
by sonofapsycho on Jul 14, 2010 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions
sonofapsycho
I’m not trying to split hairs here, but in your opinion Dempsey is overrated, but to my point of having him on the mountain, do you think his contribution to boxing is? Everywhere, he is credited with bringing full-out agression to boxing, full-out savage combinations. Do you believe his trailblazing in that aspect is overstated?
i wouldn’t say its over stated. well maybe a bit. ii wouldn’t necessary use “trailablazer” to describe him but he was mimicked all the way down to his shoes by mike tyson and others.
him as fighter, hes been overrated by many. similar to how someone like gene tunney is underrated.
i dont have a problem you putting him up there, he was a terrific fighter, he just wouldn’t be on mine.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
by sonofapsycho on Jul 15, 2010 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Gatti, Ward, Gatti, Ward, Gat………need a bigger mountain.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
by Goatsnake on Jul 14, 2010 11:43 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
my mount punchmore
Gatti, Pacquiao, Tyson, Baby Bull
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on Jul 15, 2010 2:57 AM EDT reply actions
If I was picking my favourite four to be on there.....
Probably go with:
Roy Jones
Marvin Hagler
David Tua
4th is tough…. there are a few…. O’Neil Bell, Marcos Maidana, Arturo Gatti, Kostya Tzsyu, Lennox Lewis…. the list goes on….
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
How’d you go in that pool comp Chaos?
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
I whitewashed some guy in the first round,
and then was drawn against a guy ranked in the top 8 players in the game. I started poorly, and went a few behind, and when I started to pull myself together he got a little bit of luck (and he played well throughout, to be fair). I lost 7-4. Only the second time I ever qualified for the World Championships though, and last time I drew the #1 player in the world (at the time) in the second round… I’d quite like to get a better draw next time… :)
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
My best mate (also a massive boxing fan)
got beat in the semi final, defending his World Title.
http://www.wepf.org/worlds2.php?option=2
He lost 10-8 and didn’t miss a ball… how crazy is that???
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
Hmm, for FAVORITES, I’d have Erik Morales, Marvin Hagler, Micky Ward and Shane Mosley.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 15, 2010 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
AH FUCK WHAT ABOUT IZZY VAZQUEZ
Drop Mosley for Izzy.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 15, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
mariciano, mccallum, frazier, hagler for me.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
by sonofapsycho on Jul 15, 2010 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Mount Rushmore - granite face
Hagler, Greb, Basilio, LaMotta – granite chins
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
ive always wanted to see the shot that joe chip knocked greb silly with.
i want to see more video of greb period but especially that.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
by sonofapsycho on Jul 15, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Me too. There’s a scene at the beginning of Cobb where all the sportswriters are getting drunk and screaming at each other about the best P4P fighter ever that first piqued my interest in Greb about 15 years ago. One of them suggests Harry Greb as the best ever, and another one says, “Harry Greb my ass, he couldn’t beat Harry Belafonte!”
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 15, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
in the pick em game i would predict that greb would have kicked the holy shit out of harry belefonte. id double down on it too! thats funny though, i haven’t seen cobb in a while, i dont remember that scene. thats not a movie you catch on hbo or showtime all that often.
anywho, greb is top 3 all time, easily.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
by sonofapsycho on Jul 15, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
tyson, leon spink, tex cobb and iran barkley would be a pretty awesome monument.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
few questions
Would Tyson’s face-tat play out well carved from granite? You know it probably would. How great would to see Leon’s grill up there that big, just fascinating. And cobb could probably just stand up there, no carving needed, just actually him.
My Rushmore – Jack Johnson – Joe Louis – Sugar Ray Robinson and Ali.
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. " Hunter S Thompson.
BUT THEY'RE ALL BLACK!!!
I’m SURE white fighters have made a contribution to boxing’s history?
And where are the requisite token Hispanics?
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
Didnt realise they were all black Chaos
My mistake ☺ , dint realise there was a racial quota either
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. " Hunter S Thompson.
I'm just playing, in case you didn't know.... :)
I think I’ve expressed my thoughts quite clearly on the idea of racial quotas and political correctness above… :)
Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)
JC40
your Rushmore would be ‘drugs, alcohol, violence & insanity’ – take your pick on 4 four fighters to represent this
being serious I couldn’t better Johnson-Louis-SRR-Ali – good pick
Cheers Mate
Hope All’s Well , Brstol.
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. " Hunter S Thompson.
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