Kelly Pavlik-Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. looks like a go for December 4
by Scott Christ on Jul 14, 2010 2:32 PM EDT
in Boxing News Analysis
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Though no contracts have been signed and details still have to be worked out, it appears as though the rumored December 4 fight between former middleweight world champion Kelly Pavlik and Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. will be going ahead. Joe Scalzo of Vindy.com had the story today, and this quote from Pavlik:
"It’s the only really big fight out there for me. I think it’s a big step toward getting back on the right track."
Pavlik (36-2, 32 KO) lost his middleweight crown in April to Sergio Martinez and had been said to be targeting a move up in weight to 168 pounds. With this fight, he'll be staying at 160 for at least one more bout, and he is right that it's really the only money fight for him out there.
What Pavlik doesn't indicate, since it ain't good hype, is it's also about the easiest money fight he'll ever have in his career. I truly thought highly of the improvements Chavez (41-0-1, 30 KO) showed in his career-best win over John Duddy on June 26, but Duddy is not Pavlik, and though Kelly has his detractors, he has plenty of wins over guys as good as Chavez, and the fights weren't close.
Bob Arum has reportedly given his blessing to the fight, and I don't know, I can't figure that one out. I mean, I don't mind it. I'm no huge Chavez fan, but Top Rank has been exceptionally careful to this point, and he's 24. Even Duddy was a step up, but Pavlik is like jumping five more levels in one fight. Unless Top Rank thinks it's time to cash in on Chavez, I don't see the point in this, unless they think there's simply more money long-term in the older Pavlik, who could use a win over Chavez to springboard into some money fights at 168 with the guys from the Super Six who no longer have tournament obligations.
Honestly, in its own way, I like the fight. There's nothing better for Pavlik to do, and selfishly, I can say it probably bursts whatever bubble Chavez has left among the people who don't care much about what a win means but are simply concerned with whether something was a win, no matter who it's against.
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Honestly, in its own way, I like the fight. There’s nothing better for Pavlik to do, and selfishly, I can say it probably bursts whatever bubble Chavez has left among the people who don’t care much about what a win means but are simply concerned with whether something was a win, no matter who it’s against.
Don’t be so sure about that. The Rooach factor vs. the Lowe factor is ano contest and ano brainer.
Pray for Nick Charles
Unless Freddie Roach plans on turning into Gandalf, he’s not going to be able to make Chavez good enough to handle Kelly Pavlik.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 14, 2010 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
A great trainer is one thing
And I’m absolutely 100% sure that Roach can develop a great plan to beat Pavlik (who has some obvious weaknesses), but you also need the fighter to be able to execute that plan.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Yeah. There are plenty of guys I think Roach could coach to beat Pavlik. Felix Sturm is one of them. Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. is not.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 14, 2010 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Calzaghe-Hopkins (oh God I had to bring that up again)
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 14, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Penalosa’s trainer was Roach.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 14, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
A great trainer is more than one thing when the other trainer is less than average.
Pray for Nick Charles
Trainer
In my eyes a great trainer can keep a fight closer than it should be, make a close fight go to his guy, but can’t take an ok fighter and beat a really good one. But the real question is, is Kelly still a really good one.
I don’t like jumping on bandwagons and I am even more reluctant to jump off one, but I’ve got one foot on the ground with the Pavlik bandwagon and timing my jump. Many of you, I know think Martinez would handle him again. But I can’t accept Kelly giving up a rematch for the title. A title match that guys work their whole life to get and he says no thank you. I can’t make the weight any more. Then stays in the class and fights a 3rd level guy. I’m bitter and sad at what I’ve seen from Kelly.
Double up the jab for me, Kell
"The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic"
Everything is ok
Just double that jab. OK? OK? OK? OK?
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jul 15, 2010 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ll throw this out there, not because I believe it’s the case but because I suppose it could be.
Top Rank might think Pavlik is … not shot, but not the Kelly Pavlik he used to be, and that Chavez can beat him. Arum’s faith in Pavlik seemed shaken last year when Kelly was dealing (poorly) with his staph infection.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 14, 2010 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
After the loss to Martinez, Pavlik may well be shot--emotionally.
Pray for Nick Charles
by Kid Blast on Jul 14, 2010 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That’s what I mean. Kelly seems like an emotional dude who takes losses pretty hard. If they think he’s not dealing well, they could smell a big chance for Chavez. I’ll say plenty about the bad decisions Top Rank makes, but their matchmakers are generally pretty damn smart. And Brick’s probably 100% correct that even if Chavez loses (and badly) that he doesn’t really lose a whole lot. It’s former middleweight champ Kelly Pavlik after all, and Chavez is but 24, and still has that name, and is still Mexican.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 14, 2010 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I do. Oh oh. Thanks for the feedback. I'll be more circumspect in the futuer. But heck, I just
think he has some real head issues. Hopkins exposed some of it, but Martinez affirmed it. Meanwhile, Junior keeps winning. I just think the Roach factor might offset the fact that Pavlik should win on paper. I won’t predict that just yet. That’s all I’m saying. Too many intangibles in this one.
Pray for Nick Charles
I honestly believe the only intangible here is if Pavlik has mentally bottomed out. But I also have the gut feeling that when this idea came to him and his team, his eyes probably lit up like a kid going to meet Santa at the mall. It’s a lot of money, a huge stage, and a fight he should have no fear he’ll lose. He’s eaten guys like Chavez for breakfast plenty of times.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 14, 2010 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, this is what I’m thinking too. A Christmas present. He knows he can rip Chavez to shreds and get an easy payday with a big (mexican) audience.
But I have to say again that this is just a “comeback trail” sort of fight. Pavlik will stomp him, but it won’t have any meaning if he doesn’t stick around his division and try to win his crown back. In twenty years, nobody will care about Pavlik KO Chavez 6. Nobody should care about the morning after it happens. But that’s not how boxing works… there’ll be a ticker tape parade.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
He's eaten guys for breakfast
Who would eat Chavez for breakfast.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jul 15, 2010 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Arum is banking
that Chavez can still continue to draw, even if he loses a wide decision to Pavlik. He’ll still be able to market Chavez the way he’s marketed Chavez up to this point. And should Chavez happen to win, then he has a new star. If he doesn’t he’s in no worse of a position than he was before.
Also, I think there are some parallels to be drawn. I think this will be the same fight number where Chavez Sr. first went for a major opponent.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Also, I’ll offer this, too: If I’m Jack Loew, I have Kelly Pavlik going full steam ahead at Chavez. Not reckless, but the sort of calculated killer Pavlik was on his way up. See how Chavez reacts to that early.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
Each day the Pavlik doesn;t fight is a day in the bank for the more active Chavez.
Pray for Nick Charles
Dinner.
Any restaurant you want.
No fear no hesitation: Take the bet.
by Don From Prov on Jul 14, 2010 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
You beat me to it. I was gonna bet Ted for an brunch with Russ at my restaurant here in the city. And if that sunuvabitch LeMieux wanted to show up… so much the better.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Get him loaded up on elderflower cocktails
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
no, no, no
If we are doing this, we’re doing it correct. I am partner to one of the premier restaurants in this berg. You, me, Miller, Ted and Russ (and Don, if he’s up for it.) Seriously, I like Russ’s style. He’s a throwback, but also an innovator. It’s hard to do what he’s done with that kid in today’s climate.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Sounds like a plan
I meant the other place though. The one that models hang out at on the sidewalk cafe while fat slobs like me get loaded on bloody marys. I’m pretty sure there was an elderflower cocktail on the menu there.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Bloody Maries
Are made of win. What? What!?
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jul 15, 2010 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m just wondering, does this fight get picked up by HBO for a BAD?
"The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic"
A BAD? Not a chance. It’s in Cowboys Stadium. It’ll be on PPV, probably a Top Rank independent deal.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 14, 2010 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Ooo I didn’t realise it was at Cowboys Stadium. How do you think they’ll do for tickets?
"The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic"
by Oli Goldstein on Jul 14, 2010 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Pretty well. I wouldn’t be surprised if Arum bumps an Humberto Soto-Marco Antonio Barrera fight to that undercard to help out.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 14, 2010 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Mexico for Montiel-Donaire, not Chavez.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 14, 2010 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah, that's going to Mexico.
Arum mentioned it today, methinks.
"The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic"
by Oli Goldstein on Jul 14, 2010 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I’ll add this too since it probably seems like I’m being really hard on Chavez. I REALLY did think he showed genuine improvement against Duddy, and it was improvement for the first time in a long time. I think he and Roach could be a fruitful pairing, and it’s as good a shot as Chavez has at being any good (working with Roach is that shot, I mean).
But at the same time, I NEVER would have advised he fight Kelly Pavlik next, the same as if, say, Matthew Hatton puts in a career-best performance on Friday, and I’m looking to keep him relevant, I don’t sign him up to fight Shane Mosley next.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
Roach interview
Just a few days ago said Chavez is not ready of a Pavlik. He said after a few more fights he could take on Kelly no problem, but was pretty clear, it would not be next. And now this…strange.
Well
In this case, he is an employee. If Chavez and Arum really want to fight Pavlik, then so be it.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jul 15, 2010 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
The idea of Matthew Hatton fighting Shane Mosley made me chuckle. Saul Alvarez will rip Matthew to shreds in September if that fight comes off.
"The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic"
by Oli Goldstein on Jul 14, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re right there. I favour Pavlik massively, but maybe, just maybe Freddie knows something we don’t know… Nah, Chavez to get KTFO in the 7th.
"The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic"
by Oli Goldstein on Jul 14, 2010 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
It’ll still be a good record after Chavez gets moidalized. It’s like on a ballgame when they show you that a guy is 9-for-13 against the pitcher he’s facing. If he strikes out, the next time they match up, they’re going to show you his impressive 9-for-14 against the pitcher.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 14, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Pavlik says this is the “only big fight out there for me.” Didn’t he turn down a re-match with Martinez specifically to go to 168 or 175?
Now that he’s changed his mind, surely he could enforce the re-match clause?
Without Pavlik, Martinez can’t seem to get an HBO date, while Pavlik walks into a PPV fight with a money-making light tough like Chavez Jr.
Don’t seem right.
Now that he’s changed his mind, surely he could enforce the re-match clause?
Nope. He turned it down, and that’s that.
Without Pavlik, Martinez can’t seem to get an HBO date
Martinez is part of the giant parade of guys hanging in the balance waiting to see if Mayweather-Pacquiao happens.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 14, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
There are no fights at 168 either because of the Super Six.
My guess is that he fully intended to go to 168. There are no fights there at the moment, but there will be someday, and as he saw it, that made it no worse than 160, where there were also (as he saw it then) no good fights. If you only have bad fights available to you in both divisions, you might as well fight at the one where weight isn’t a problem.
Then he unexpectedly received this gift offer of fighting a far-inferior opponent for a hugely disproportionate amount of money, and he decided not to look the gift horse in the mouth. I don’t think he went looking for this fight. It wouldn’t have seemed realistic to him until it was actually offered to him.
There was talk of getting him in with Librado Andrade, which would have been an amazing fight to watch. I wonder what that would have done to Kelly’s head, seeing a guy take flush shots all night and keep walking straight at you.
"The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic"
by Oli Goldstein on Jul 14, 2010 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
PW
Probably wouldn’t have taken it. There seems to be a great deal of tension between those camps.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jul 15, 2010 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions
This fight is the equivalent of the Pavlik-Duddy St.c Pat’s fight I was sure they were angling for if Taylor dropped his rematch clause. Had Duddy won his Chavez, Pavlik probably would have fought (and beaten the tar out of) Duddy. Now Pavlik will simply face Chavez instead. It’s not right, and it’s bordering on a mismatch, but that’s life.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
---
“It’s the only really big fight out there for me. I think it’s a big step toward getting back on the right track.”
Yeah, right.
There was Capone, Robinson/Jake, almostPavlik/Duddy—
No matter what day this takes place on, it’s St. Valentine’s—and it’s a massacare/
Don, at one time I was SURE, that there would be a Pavlik-Duddy championship fight on St. Pats at Madison Square. All of Queens would have emptied out in a giant stampede: “One and a half Irishman fighting for a world title? That means at least .5 Irishmen will win! Honey where’s my shamrock beer hat?”
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
LMAO.
Got to love the Irish.
Remember what the shrink (that hot little thing) said in The Departed?
by Don From Prov on Jul 14, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair to Chavez...
I can see him stealing some rounds based on ring generalship in determining where, how, and at what pace the savage, unrelenting thrashing takes place.
by Verklemptomaniac on Jul 14, 2010 4:04 PM EDT reply actions
Comments about how easy it was going to be to KO Hopkins and how they were going to dominate him and how Kelly was going to impose himself on Hopkins and etc. When it was said and done Pavlik didn’t win a round and was thoroughly embarassed.
Pre fight everyone was saying how Pavlik was too good and too strong and too young, all leading to his domination.
The same comments are being made now.
I hope Chavez is a huge underdog in Vegas, Im gonna get paid $$$$$$.
That’s some really persuasive logic there. And you know what, if Kelly were going to fight Woody Allen, people would say he would dominate that fight too! That must mean Woody would beat him down just like Hopkins did!
by taco pal on Jul 14, 2010 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Chavez has more going for him right now at the moment then Pavlik. He’s young, he’s undefeated, he has a new Hall Of Fame trainer in Freddie Roach, he has a huge fan base, and a historic last name that he wants to protect and honor.
Say what you want to say about his past opponents, he hears what everyone is saying. About he fights tomato cans, and he’s living off of his dad’s name. I believe all of the things mentioned above will motivate him and keep him focused to put on a good showing against Pavlik.
And as far as opponents, Pavlik’s opponents haven’t been too great either. They weren’t bums, but not elite either. The two elite guys he fought, he lost, badly.
Chavez hasn’t been in with elite competition either,and it wont start with Pavlik.
I dont have anything against Pavlik, I thought what he did to Taylor showed heart, courage, and a will not to lose.
My issue is people acting like these two shouldn’t even get in the ring together, like they should just add another victory to Pavlik’s record and put a 1 in the loss column for Chavez Jr. before they fight, and thats not right.
That "fan base" ain't climbing in the ring with Jr.
And my last name is Seabiscuit, but I have no plans to enter the Derby.
by Don From Prov on Jul 14, 2010 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
As I see it
Even if Pavlik is 80% of what he was, he’d still beat the crap out of Marco Antonio Rubio. And I really doubt Chavez could even beat Rubio.
There just aren’t that many raw tools available with Chavez Jr. He’s not tough like his daddy. He’s on the slow side. He’s soft. He had good power at 147, but it’s average at best at 160. He’s not quick or slick. I suspect that Freddie Roach could work with him for a decade and he still wouldn’t be any more than just a good fighter, but he’s not even at that level at the moment.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
You should probably write Bernard Hopkins an apology for comparing him to Julio Cesar Chavez Jr., or perhaps Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. should throw you a party.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 14, 2010 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Dear Executioner,
Sorry I compared your Living Hall of Fame Ass to the latest Marv Frazier named “Julio Cesar Etc Etc”, who went life and death with Matt Vanda and Troy Rowland. After I sobered up and the last traces of LSD left my bloodstream, I recognize that very few peopl in the history of this noble sport have possessed the kind of boxing brain that can dismantle young phenoms like Felix Trinidad and Kelly Pavlik. I am sorry for this ridiculous understating of your talent, and I am sorry that your teeth are snaggle.
Signed,
New Guy.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
by jrok on Jul 14, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Im not comparing Hopkins to Chavez
My focus was on Pavlik. How everyone was hyping him up to be a special, elite fighter before he met Hopkins. And all the talk before he lost was that he was this indestructible force that couldn’t be stopped. Nobody wasn’t giving Hopkins a chance to win this fight, you even said that on a different thread earlier.
But since he won and it’s in hindsight now, it’s easy to be like,; Oh yeah, Hopkins is the man. I knew he was going to win.
I bet if you can pull up the betting line for that fight it will show Hopkins was a huge underdog.
And can you answer this question honestly, who did you pick to win?
I picked Pavlik, but you and many others are tacking on this entirely untrue belief that we all thought he was INDESTRUCTIBLE or ELITE. I honestly can’t recall anyone saying that. I was a very big Pavlik supporter and felt he was the best middleweight in the world but I also think Sergiy Dzinziruk is currently the best junior middle in the world and I don’t feel he’s elite either. I thought Kelly was a very exciting fighter with a great right hand and a good work ethic, all points that would be basically impossible to counter the day before he fought Hopkins in October 2008.
I thought Pavlik would beat Hopkins because Hopkins was 267 years old and had looked like crap against Joe Calzaghe. Then Hopkins whipped his ass. And anyway what difference does it make who I picked to win Pavlik-Hopkins? Almost everyone picked Pavlik and we were all wrong because Bernard Hopkins is a living legend and proved people wrong ONE MORE TIME as he had done many times before. None of this relates in any way to Julio Cesar Chavez Jr., whose best win is over John Duddy, the guy who lost to Billy Lyell and should have lost to Walid Smichet, the latter functionally retired last year by the great Peter Manfredo Jr.
I have seen Pavlik beat the crap out of Edison Miranda, Marco Antonio Rubio, Miguel Espino, Gary Lockett, Jose Luis Zertuche, Bronco McKart, and others. All those guys are a lot closer to Chavez’s level than John Duddy and Troy Rowland and Matt Vanda are to Pavlik.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 14, 2010 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s just crazy. I hope the crazy keeps ramping up. Pavlik earned me a pretty penny in his first fight with Jermain. I smell another one of these cooking now. I love it to death when a comebacking guy is written off……..against someone like “Junior.”
$$$$$$$$$$$$$
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
No you guys just don’t get it! If Pavlik couldn’t beat one opponent he was favored over, that means he’ll get beat by every opponent he’s favored over. It’s the law of relativity.
When a fighter just doesn’t wanna fight any more. Than he just doesn’t wanna fight any more. Him losing becomes common. Watch enough boxing and you’ll soon realize it’s not something rare
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
by Violent Demise on Jul 14, 2010 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Get outta here with that "watch enough boxing stuff"
This is the advanced class.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
No, jrok! He’s totally right! Once a fighter starts losing, then it doesn’t even matter who his opponent is anymore. He loses by the sheer force of his own losing-ness!
Haw haw
Yeah I’m just f’ing around.
To tell you the truth, I’m STILL not sure Senior C is done fighting. Get him in the ring with Pavlik to fight the middle rounds, get the mandatory LaPorte judge with the can and the dog in there, and you’ll have a winner.
Otherwise… Dead Meat.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
And just like every advance class, some are in by other means. Nothing to do with actual knowledge.
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
by Violent Demise on Jul 14, 2010 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Okay cocaine girl
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Knock her habit if you want. Her knowledge would put most guys here to shame. Some are very obvious
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
by Violent Demise on Jul 14, 2010 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Settle down, VD. Your enigmatic put-downs are getting boring. There’s nothing in the world worse than Boring. I’d rather deal with the Stupid and the Crazy than with the Boring.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
What put downs? I haven’t insulted anybody. Seriously the sensitivity of some of the posters here makes me wonder if there really 12 year old girls.
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
by Violent Demise on Jul 14, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
OKAY
That’s it for you!
Congratulations. You’ve guessed the Magic Word : “12 year old girls”
See, now, this is the part where you just exposed all of your sad, sad weaknesses. Because, frankly, you don’t really belong here. You belong on some other board, with briliant boxing geniuses who call people “12 year old girls” and talk about “bitches” who fall down stairs, and generally type a whole lot without saying anything of interest.
Thanks for your patronage, but you are out cold at second base. Enjoy your ban. May it be long and fruitful.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
That’s too bad. For the record I wasn’t offended. It’s not like the debate was going poorly or anything. I understand that there’s a community that needs to be upheld though.
He's been warned 7 times before
And banned and reinstated before. It was getting reminiscent of ItBurnzWhenIP.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
thanks
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
by sonofapsycho on Jul 14, 2010 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
No. He is getting banned for being a punk, 24/7.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
He'll probably be back
Unless SC objects. I think he needs a cooling off period though. I think we gave ItBurnz 3 strikes before he was out for good.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Brick, you can see how many times I warned him. Its just enough. Once it dissolves into “Watch more boxing” quips and “12 year old girl” garbage, that’s it.
As if anyone here has to “watch more boxing.” Jeez, there are some of us here who should probably “watch less boxing,” in the way a junkie should “do less heroin.”
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
But in all fairness, VD is a damn knowegable boxing man.
I post with him on another site and he is well respected. I vouch for VD.
Pray for Nick Charles
Good call, Jrok
That guy slipped into being an ass way too easily.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jul 15, 2010 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Honestly, this guy probably should have been banned over his sickening Valero posts back when that awful stuff was happening.
i missed all that. sorry i did. i got a kick out of whats his name mindless rants.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
by sonofapsycho on Jul 15, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions
tHE OTHER THING IS THAT WE SHOULD NOT
TALK ABOUT SOMEONE IF HE DOESN’T HAVE A CHANCE TO RESPOND.
Pray for Nick Charles
agreed
If everyone can drop the VD thing, I’d appreciate it. It’s only fair because he can’t respond.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 15, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
He was
And he was let back
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
That same come backing fighter bought me a nice dinner when Sergio Martinez clowned him.
Keep them ribs coming Pavlik. Thanks to your loyal misguided fan base you do become my favorite every time you lose
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
by Violent Demise on Jul 14, 2010 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Not that its all about the benjis
But I am starting to smell blood now. I can feel it. This line is gonna be decent.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
I can already hear the soon-to-be-remorseful bettor’s chatter… “Chav’s got a new coach… Chav was drained before… Duddy was better than the club fighter we all knew he was… Pavlik is toast…”. Haw haw haw.
Anyway, the middleweight glory division has seen better days for sure. Other than Taylor, Pavlik’s scalps will include some of the worst contenders I’ve ever seen in my life. This will be no different.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
I see Pavlik struggling to take the scalp of the smaller D level Espino really impressed some people
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
by Violent Demise on Jul 14, 2010 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Bet on Espino in the rematch! It doesn’t matter if he’s D level, because Pavlik doesn’t want to fight anymore!
Size does play a factor. Espino unfortunately for him didn’t have any. He was a midget compare to Pavlik. Kelly letting that go pass the 2nd was a disgrace. That should of been a first round blow out. But things do change when the bottle starts to run a fighters training camp
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
by Violent Demise on Jul 14, 2010 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
What’s this? You’re saying the quality of Pavlik’s opponent might have something to do with whether he’s going to win or lose? Say it ain’t so!
Or maybe only the size of the opponent matters, while none of the opponent’s other attributes matter. So a small man can’t beat Pavlik even though he doesn’t want to fight anymore. But a medium sized man who sucks will win no matter how much he sucks. I see, that makes perfect sense.
I told you guys some of the people here were allowed in to the advance class because of other means. It’s alright. Work through that probation stage and just keep trying. Soon enough only half the stuff and not all will just go over your head
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
by Violent Demise on Jul 14, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey!
Skating the edge. Keep skating.
Please.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
You can think i’m stupid. Just don’t talk to me like it. Just cuz your able to delete posts to your liking changes nothing
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
by Violent Demise on Jul 14, 2010 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
about half of those were actually good fights regardless of the result, so in a weird way i’m kind of looking forward to this fight.
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on Jul 15, 2010 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Me too
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jul 15, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Hmm...
B-Hop.
Chavez. Yes, I was one that thought Hopkins was old and done after Joe C.
However, among any number of things there is a huge knowledge difference between Hopkins and Chavez: Hopkins had made a career of taking away an opponents strengths.
Hope you don’t bet your retirement fund on Chavez, Floorer.
Ted, for his part, is only going to loose the price of a dinner.
by Don From Prov on Jul 14, 2010 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
look closely
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 15, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Theres enough room left for you to slide a picture of Pavlik right next to him.
by The Floorer on Jul 15, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
You might well be right as rain about Pavlik being a hypejob, but to call him that while defending Chavez is a real head-scratcher to me.
Still I laughed at your comment, so hey.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 15, 2010 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Im still laughing at your comment too
Especially with that “Look Closely” next to it.
by The Floorer on Jul 15, 2010 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Really I don’t see Chavez winning that big of a surprise. Cuz truthfully to me it just doesn’t seem like Pavlik really cares about Boxing all that much any more. I can see him just going through the motions and pretty much just losing. I’m really interested in the odds for this fight. I’m won’t hesitate to put a little a something on Chavez
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
He’ll make way more than that. That’s just the lowest he can possibly be guaranteed within his contract. He made $2.5 mil for Martinez at Boardwalk Hall without PPV revenues and stuff.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 14, 2010 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I'm not doing all that well in Boxing Bulletin
but when I break a fight down and make a prediction, I rarely miss. So that’s what I will do here at the right time.
Pray for Nick Charles
Ted, your opinons about Pavlik aside, this fight is the definition of a no brainer. I can see and hit John Duddy’s chin with a pebble from the surface of the moon. This is the classic bait-and-switch. “See, Junior’s got a new world-class trainer! Look at how great the jab is against a guy who leads with his nose!!!”
“Old Yank " Schneider was a slobbering nit-wit, especially when it came to Kelly Pavlik. But let’s call this fight what it is: A protected papa’s boy finally being cashed in. Ka-Ching!
Actually, I am curious about the line in this fight. The pesos might pile up behind JCC-2, in which case there may indeed be some oppportunity for an easy buck.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Look. I am focusing on the Roach factor. That has been a very smart focus in the past.
Jack Lowe does not do much for me as a trainer. If roach can come up with agame plan based arouns Junior’s left hook, I think the odds start to get very close here. Junior looke very good in his last outing. Pavlik looked like a bloody mess. I think KP’s head just might not be screwed on right for a fight like this. I know I am in the minority, but I don’t care all that much for the predictable and non-multi dimensional Pavlik.
Pray for Nick Charles
Thats right. Pavlik is a come forward, flat footed fighter who needs someone to stand and trade with him for him to look good. If you’re a mover-boxer, he doesn’t stand a chance.
Chavez isn't a mover boxer
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jul 15, 2010 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
While Pavlik deserves to be the favorite I think there’s a misconception out there that Pavlik is/was a great fighter. He’s not. Never was. He’s a good fighter. A good fighter who’s clearly on the decline. A declining good fighter who doesn’t even seem to have his heart into boxing any more. He’s been to the top. And seems he’s content with the fact that he was once the man. To me I see no burning desire to get there again. If it happens than it happens. Chavez is an average fighter. And that’s being kind to him. But he knows his standing in the sport isn’t a great one. His last name has been both a gift and a curse for him at the same time. It’s a gift cuz it’s allowed him to earn far bigger paychecks than someone fighting the scrubs he’s fought has any business earning. At the same time it’s placed unreasonable expectations on him. No matter what he does he will never come close to what his father accomplished. But as unrealistic as it is he thinks he can. Roach has given him such a boost mentally that Chavez actually thinks he can do a little something the sport. He’s a hungry, motivated fighter facing a declining unmotivated fighter.
Think about it. They tell Chavez he’s facing Kelly Pavlik. I have no doubt he goes out there and trains his hardest for what is the big fight of his career.
They tell Pavlik he’s facing Chavez Jr. i seriously doubt he’s training like he did prior to facing Jermain Taylor.
I have convinced myself. This fight goes on, and I’m taking Chavez Jr. In my opinion Kelly Pavlik is done as a fighter
If a man ain't found something worth dying for. He ain't fit to live.
IMO
Shot Kelly Pavlik still beats the crap out of Junior. And I don’t think he’s shot. His heart might be a little less in the game now, but not enough that he’ll turn into Jeff Lacy. The cuts worry me though.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
if pavlik’s in shape and motivated he should blast out jr.
i can see jr squeaking out a decision against a spent pavlik though.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
Anybody can lose if they’re “spent,” as in if there’s absolutely zero left. I just can’t see what evidence there is that Pavlik is spent. A spent man doesn’t take four rounds off of a Top 10 PFP fighter.
spent meaning out of gas and not in proper shape.
kelly is plenty left as a fighter.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
by sonofapsycho on Jul 14, 2010 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions
He's definitely complained about being drained at 160 his last few fights
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I’m not so sold on this. I think he can make it. I think that other factors are involved with him not making it.
Look, what Ted Sares has to say about this isn’t that far from what i think, but at some point you have to say "okay, but given all that, JCC’s kid still has been protected like Fort Knox, and you can just see how limited he is. He should have gone to law School, but “they keep pulling him back in!”
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
yea he looked like a guy who shouldn’t be fighting at 160 anymore late against martinez
hes got his personal issues too that are factors in his preparation too.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
by sonofapsycho on Jul 14, 2010 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
hes got his personal issues too that are factors in his preparation too
Boom. More than we know. And those factors not only come into play when you prepare, but when the fight gets toughs. Those deamons creep up and the performace races down.
Bottom line, what does he have to gain from this? Compared to what he would have to gain to take the rematch for the belt.
Bottom line, what does he have to gain from this? Compared to what he would have to gain to take the rematch for the belt.
1. A win
2. Almost surely more money
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 14, 2010 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Heck
He was probably guaranteed a fight against the Chavez-Duddy winner by Arum back when he was still in the period when he could decide whether to exercise his option. I don’t doubt that the reason he turned it down was because he knew he would get that fight, which would be for an interim title (basically a mandatory position for Martinez’s belt anyway), for big money, and in a fight he should win.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
So he ends up in the same position anyway
Just richer, and with more time to make adjustments before his next Martinez fight, if he chooses to go that route.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
What?
Personal issues can be perfectly good reasons to perform poorly due to distraction, or to not fight at all. Like when Berto cancelled on Mosley due to the Haiti disaster. Surely nobody could hold that against him!
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jul 15, 2010 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
Everyone has something going on in they're life that could distract them
Shane Mosley’s divorce. Should Shane use that as an excuse for his latest performance? We’ve never seen Shane beat like that before. Mayweather before he fought Marquez had an associate involved in a shooting and he could’ve involved Mayweather in it, Mayweather could’ve been looking at jail time.
Diego Corrales before he fought Mayweather was undefeated and whipping everybody, right before he fought Mayweather he was accused of beating up his pregnant girlfriend and had a jail sentence coming up after the fight. He got beat down that fight. Should that be his excuse?
Thats just a few incidents, I can go on forever though, but everyone has personal issues in their life that they’re dealing with. So its no excuse.
The Berto incident is a completely different story.
by The Floorer on Jul 15, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
You're right
People aren’t affected by anything, ever.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jul 15, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
exactly. thats just hippie stuff to feel and be distracted by personal issues.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
by sonofapsycho on Jul 15, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
War
All I have to say is that Not too many People gave Jr. a Shot against Duddy, then after Jr. Whooped him People Still won’t Give Jr. Credit. I was Ringside and that was a Hell Of A Fight. I know Duddy is no Pavlik . Jr. Vs Pavlik will be a Tough Fight I believe Jr. will Win.
So just because he changed trainers
Two fights removed from almost losing to Troy Rowland, he’s ready to beat the guy who was just middleweight champ, who’s only ever had problems with guys who are slick?
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Of course not
But Chavez is far from being slick and doesn’t have good lateral movement. When Roach said he’s a few fights away from being able to face Pavlik, I suspect that’s what he meant – he wants to teach Chavez lateral movement, but Chavez is a proven slow learner.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Well good for you
You truly enlightened group of prophets.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jul 15, 2010 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Come on, DC, Be nice here. After all, there are only about 3 of us who like Junior.
Pray for Nick Charles
I have looked at this from every angle I can
And can’t see any way that Chavez comes out on top, without him using some sort of firearm. I have applied a considerable amount of thought to this, and naturally resent being told that I am just buying into a hype job.
I’m not a Pavlik fan, I picked Martinez to dismantle him, but I just think the idea of Chavez Jr beating him is almost inexplicable.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jul 15, 2010 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Again with the “H” word… Tto describe AN OPPONENT OF JCC Jr.!
Junior compiled a 41-0 record against 40 stiffs and club fighter John Duddy. He literally has main-evented expensive PPVs against stiffs and bums.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
almost losing to Troy Rowland
Come on, Brick. You know he won that one without any doubt.
Why the negativism on Junior and the Love for KP? It’s perplexing. I sit because he has been brought up too slowly? I sit because he has not fought great opposition? Is it because of who he is—the sone of Superstar? The kid fight with anice left hook that he needs to shorten up on. He has a defense that can be readiuly improved. He has a jab. He has stamina. He can mix it up if required. What the hell, I’m going to cut him some slack here. Of course, I have not been a fan of Pavlik ever since the Bhop fight.
Pray for Nick Charles
I'm negative because I don't think he's any good
It was impressive that he beat Duddy relatively easily. But (a) he’s still easy to hit, (b) Pavlik is about 3 classes above Duddy, © most of his physical attributes are average at best.
Saying he almost lost to Rowland was stretching it, but Rowland was a below average clubfighter who managed to win three rounds.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Rowland WAS GOING THROUGH SOME PERSONAL STUFF THAT INSPIRED HIM THAT NIGHT imo
Pray for Nick Charles
They both looked pretty terrible to me, actually.
But the rounds that Rowland won, he was almost hitting Chav at will. With the 1-2, no less. And he let Rowland move him around the ring with it, too.
Roach has his work cut out for him.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
He was, yeah. Something with his brother being sick. He really gave it his best crack and did all he could but man should have not been in that fight.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 15, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
You and others are confusing Chavez not being good with people apparently believing that Kelly Pavlik is the white Marvin Hagler but what the hell, I’ll go through your list:
Is it because he has been brought up too slowly?
No, it’s because he isn’t good.
Is it because he has not fought great opposition?
Great? He hasn’t fought mediocre opposition. JOHN DUDDY is BY FAR the best fighter he has faced in 43 pro fights.
I sit because of who he is—the son of Superstar?
Well the only reason we’re even talking about a “prospect” of his (to be nice) marginal talent and upside is because he’s the son of Julio Cesar Chavez. That’s it. If he wasn’t, at fight 15 he’d have wound up in the ring with someone that would have torched him.
He has a defense that can be readily improved.
If by “can be” you mean “desperately needs to be” then yes. This is a nice way of saying his defense sucks, which it still does. Junior made some REAL strides with Freddie, but it’s also not like he didn’t get hit easily by slow cruddy Duddy.
He has a jab.
This he does, and he used it for all of two rounds against Duddy before losing his grip on the punch.
He can mix it up if required.
What is any of this based on? The Duddy fight? The cans he slapped around? Him struggling to get through Rowland and Vanda? Kelly Pavlik is so far about Duddy, Rowland and Vanda that it’s not even funny.
Ted, I say this with all due great respect, but you just seem to loathe Kelly Pavlik to the point where you’re getting it into your head that this obvious mismatch is a better fight than it is. Believe me, my friend, I don’t think Pavlik is a great fighter. But I am 150% positive that he’s better than Chavez, who is going to look like a deer in the headlights as soon as KP starts punching on 12/4. There is a small part of me that even finds this disappointing. Just as JCC Jr. is starting to show some ACTUAL improvement, they’re chucking him to a wolf after years of breast feeding him wimpy opposition. I eagerly await Freddie’s candid comments about it after he leads his lamb to slaughter on the advice of Top Rank.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 15, 2010 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Luciano Cuello is another guy that Chavez went life-and-death with, and we saw what Saul Alvarez did to him this past week.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 15, 2010 8:34 AM EDT up reply actions
i seriously shoot someone in the face if they ever called or thought of pavlik as the white marvin hagler.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
by sonofapsycho on Jul 15, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
But only a white Hagler could beat the great JCC Jr. If you think Pavlik’s going to win this fight, that must mean you think he’s as good as Hagler!
makes perfect sense.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
by sonofapsycho on Jul 15, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Hagler
wasn’t even the white Hagler when it came to good boxers—
Or some shit like that. You get the idea.
by Don From Prov on Jul 15, 2010 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, I am hard on Pavlik, but I gave him real respect in my Book. I tried to be balanced there.
I don’t loath him (I sense I may need to watch this, however), but I do loath they hype that was built around him. So yes, you raise valid point about my feelings here and,I must follow my own advice to wit: I must compartmentalize my feelings about the fighter with my feelings about the hype. Points taken.
Pray for Nick Charles
Yes, I am hard on Pavlik, but I gave him real respect in my Book. I tried to be balanced there. I don’t loath him (I sense I may need to watch this, however), but I do loath they hype that was built around him. So yes, you raise valid point about my feelings here and,I must follow my own advice to wit: I must compartmentalize my feelings about the fighter with my feelings about the hype. Points taken.
Pray for Nick Charles
I like it better with the first line in blocks.
It sets the rest of the poem off nicely.
by Don From Prov on Jul 15, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Good lord….139 posts on a thread that IS NOT about Floyd Mayweather or Manny Pacquio…….
Is the fight still rumoured to be held in Dallas? If so, I’ll be there.
Yeah, it's refreshing. isn't it, and none of the other sites have it yet. BLH rules. I'am sick of May-Pac threads
Pray for Nick Charles
Pavlik walks Junior down inside of 7.
This is a mismatch despite the addition of Roach to his corner. Kelly still has one hell of a beard and Junior has not brought his power up with him. Also, despite Roach being an excellent trainer, he’s not going to transform Chavez into a fleet-footed boxer capable of turning Kelly, and exploiting angles. Kelly is going to taste whatever power Junior has, smile and pulverize him.
by SmittytheCutman on Jul 14, 2010 10:21 PM EDT reply actions
Well, KP may need you in his corner, Smitty, if his eyes open up like they did against Martinez.
Pray for Nick Charles
You have a point Kid Blast...the cuts scare me.
by SmittytheCutman on Jul 14, 2010 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
We could sort it no bother with out cutman skillz ^^
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jul 15, 2010 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions
The cuts could definitely be a problem.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 15, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I heard Kelly's corner saying they were going to do the same thing to Hopkins, we seen how that went.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know Hopkins is a veteran Hall Of Famer and all that. Well Pavlik and his team shouldn’t have been running their mouths months before the fight talking about scoring a KO.
That’s what makes it so hilarious.
Everyone always says they’re going to knock the other guy out. Bernard Hopkins and Roy Jones Jr. both promised knockouts and then they had a slap fight and played grabass for 12 rounds.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 15, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I believe that Hopkins and Jones was trash talk, Pavlik’s corner kept talking about the plan to be the first person to KO Hopkins. That wasn’t ticket selling, they were serious. They really believed that Pavlik was going to KO Hopkins.
by The Floorer on Jul 15, 2010 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Hopkins and Jones had a contractual agreement that a man winning by knockout got a larger split of the purse.
You really think there’s a difference here? Pavlik was trying to sell a fight with a 43-year-old man coming off of a loss on PPV. Saying he’d be the first to knock him out — and I’m sure he intended to, because WHY WOULDN’T HE? — was a good way to try to sell it. Of course it didn’t sell anyway.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 15, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Really, this match is strange and unexpected….that’s why the high interest in it. I"ll bet any of you a dinner
at Sonic that you would not have predicted this thing a couple weeks ago. Especially at 160….Pavlik has been saying all along he’s drained at 160 and I agree with him. But who is he going to beat at 168? Only really good match for him (outside the super six) is Bute and Bute is biding his time to fight the winner of the super 6.
Yeah, the thing is it’s not really interesting. It’s only Arum’s strange hypnosis that makes it interesting. When the spell breaks, Junior still is what he is… Dog Meat.
Arum can make this kid headline a hundred “Lightnings” and a thousand “Thunders”, but he is a sitting duck in too many ways to count. Ugh.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Good points Frankin
And in my book, Bute is too much for Kelly…a bad matchup indeed.
by SmittytheCutman on Jul 14, 2010 10:30 PM EDT reply actions
Bute would kill Kelly….really finish the job Hopkins started. But JC Chavez Jr….come on, Pavlik SHOULD
beat him badly, shouldn’t he, or is Pavlik that f**ked up about boxing anymore.
The worst part about this fight is this: All the wannabe ciphers and penny ante “Old Yank” type prophets will say “Hey! See what I mean! Pavlik isn’t dead!!!”
Whatever. Pavlik will destroy this guy (like he would Dudddy or Vanda or any other fighter of this caliber), and then Arum will sell him up to 168, where his mindset and his bush-league corner will get him killed. Such is life.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
I mean, fuck that guy. But that doesn’t mean I lose my mind and make JCCjr some kind of prospect. HOLY SHIT NO! Those cards he headed were hilariously bad. Seen better fighters at the Hammerstein. He looked a little better against Duddy (who we;ve been making fun of in NY for years) and suddenly Bob Arum has a song again. My ass. Chavez looked like a C+ against a C.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
He said Pavlik was a combination Hagler and Monzon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pray for Nick Charles
he is bald…
i dont think he murdered or raped anyone though.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
by sonofapsycho on Jul 15, 2010 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
HE SAID WHEN PAVLIK FIGHTS, YOU WANT TO STAND UP AND SING THE NATIONAL ANTHEM.
Pray for Nick Charles
Is that the official, unofficial date? Better check the Cowboys schedule…..seriously, I think Chavez will sell out or nearly sell out Jerry Jones Death Star. I will be there for sure.
Dallas is in Indy on 12/5, it’s a weekend between home games
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 15, 2010 1:44 AM EDT up reply actions
i can’t believe that there are actually people other than JCC JR that believe he has a chance in this fight. it’ll be entertaining while it lasts (maybe), but pavlik will send that unholy right hand straight down the middle and chavez jr will be just another KO under pavlik’s belt
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on Jul 15, 2010 12:19 AM EDT reply actions
I’m not completely sold on KP as a lock in this fight. Let’s see it materialize and I’ll think about it more, but KP’s mentally F’d up, his trainer is a little league baseball coach, and he’s up against an improving youngster with one of the ATG trainer’s in his corner. I’d pick KP by KO today, but I’m not in this boat:
I can’t believe that there are actually people other than JCC JR that believe he has a chance in this fight.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
Yeah. I have no clue when everyone suddenly became members of the Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. Fan Club just because he was able to beat a guy that BILLY LYELL (a Loew fighter) beat. First John Duddy, next THE WORLD. And this refusal to acknowledge that NOBODY HERE IS SAYING KELLY PAVLIK IS A GREAT FIGHTER is bizarre. You don’t HAVE to be a great fighter to beat Chavez. All you have to be is somewhat better than Matt Vanda. But then I forgot that Kelly Pavlik is currently wandering the streets of Youngstown in a haze, like Bruce Springsteen in the “Streets of Philadelphia” video, because he’s so disillusioned with the sport and with his life that he can’t prepare himself for a fight with the mighty JCC Jr., and Jack Loew is driving around with a megaphone going DOUBLE UP THE JAB, KELL, hoping to call him back home.
Oh and Pavlik just punched a window again and styles have nothing to do with anything. Kelly Pavlik lost a couple fights so he’s terrible. I sure do wish it was more like the old days when everyone wasn’t obsessed with their perfect records! Hey that guy lost! HE SUCKS
Can’t ride two horses with one ass.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 15, 2010 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Running through the streets, you say?
by Verklemptomaniac on Jul 15, 2010 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sweet
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jul 15, 2010 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
If the background was the industrial waste of what used to be a viable and thriving city, it’d be perfect.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 15, 2010 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Chavez is there to be hit
Hopkins and Martinez aren’t. This isn’t even a parallel.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
The “logic” of Floorer’s argument appears to be that:
People thought Pavlik would beat Hopkins ==> Pavlik lost to Hopkins
People thought Pavlik would beat Martinez ==> Pavlik lost to Martinez
Therefore,
If people think Pavlik will beat Boxer X ==> Pavlik will lose to Boxer X
Needless to say, there are weaknesses in this logic.
Thats not what Im saying
All Im saying is that people should have learned from past experiences when saying": this guy has no shot".
And thats for all boxers, not just Pavlik.
by The Floorer on Jul 15, 2010 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
What if the guy is fighting someone who’s way worse than him? You still can’t say the other guy has no shot?
Wasn't Buster Douglas way worse than a Young Undefeated Mike Tyson?
by The Floorer on Jul 15, 2010 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes and that was the greatest upset in boxing history. Do you really think it was inappropriate for people to predict in December 1989 that Tyson would definitely beat Douglas? Every sports fan understands that crazy s**t occasionally happens in any sport. That doesn’t mean that if A has a 99.9% chance of beating B, you’re not allowed to say B has zero chance. It’s understood that when you’re making a prediction, you’re not making a statement about metaphysics.
No, he was not way worse than Tyson.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
17-1 odds for frankie randall against chavez was nuttier.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
by sonofapsycho on Jul 15, 2010 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Many people thought Martinez would give Pavlik a terrible time to be fair. I thought it was a very tough matchup for both guys — Martinez’s overall package being tough on Pavlik, and Pavlik’s height and power being tough on Martinez. At points of the fight both of those things came up. Pavlik actually fought well, I thought, but Martinez just had too much and eventually Pavlik totally ran out of answers. Martinez put on a great performance that night and proved he’s just a more complete and better fighter than Pavlik.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 15, 2010 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions
I thought that as the naturally bigger man, it was Pavlik's
job to wear down Martinez (though a lot of that was a shot at, well—unnamed).
As the far superior fighter, it is now his job to dismantle Jr.
If he doesn’t, I’ll buy Ted a dinner and get on with my life. …
Pavlik, however, will have to look for a new life because being a top boxer = farewell.
by Don From Prov on Jul 15, 2010 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
BTW I know I probably sound really annoyed, but I’m not annoyed, I’m genuinely in disbelief that some of you are looking at this fight and don’t see a $45 mismatch coming to your cable and satellite bills in December. But I really DO love that we’re at almost 200 posts for a freakin’ Kelly Pavlik-JCC Jr. fight. That’s pretty rad.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
JCC jr.s “first pitch” fanshot also had an epic post count. He is becoming the Justin Bieber of Boxing.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
I know it doesn’t mean anything, but I’m suddenly more impressed by Junior’s drawing ability.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 15, 2010 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Chavez doesn’t look much – limited ring IQ, average speed and fuck all head movement. If Duddy can nail him with right hands then Pavlik will drop the hammer all night. Jr’s no puncher despite those TV friendly 30 KOs and he’s no cutie.
Roach can improve the kid but he’s only average to begin with. I would like to see Pavlik hook up with Naazim – won’t reinvent the wheel, just fine tune him. Either way, Pavlik KO7.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
Pavlik-Duddy was considered several times but before they could get it in motion Duddy lost to Billy Lyell and made himself a complete non-factor. It was also the ultimate slaughter fight that kept coming up in talks.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 15, 2010 8:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I remember us making fun of that fight back when it was being tossed around. Murder most foul. Duddy would have walked out of there looking like that circus freak from “The Goonies.”
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
The idea of it made me uncomfortable. Again, not because Kelly Pavlik is The Amazing Kelly Pavlik, but Duddy’s face-first defense against Pavlik’s 1-2 would have been hideous. There would’ve been blood all over the place by the fourth round, and the other thing is damned Duddy is too tough to go down really fast.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 15, 2010 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah that’s what I’m saying. Rememeber how shocked we all were when we watched Duddy actually “box” Vanda? It was crazy. I was like, “who the f**k is this guy in the John Duddy mask.”
Anyway, that’s what I’m sensing is happening now. We just saw a very limited fighter (Junior) do some things we didn’t expect. Just like with Duddy, it doesn’t mean that he doesn’t stink, or we should lose our minds over it.
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for ty