Dana White talking to our friend Luke Thomas of BloodyElbow.com and MMA Nation.
Luke: "David Haye said James Toney is delusional for wanting to fight Randy Couture. David Haye is right, true or false?"
Dana: "He is very right."
almost 2 years ago
Scott Christ
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FWIW
White also went on to say Toney’s hands are like lightning (at least relative to Couture), that the scouting report on him from UFC lookouts was positive and he acknowledged Toney has the capacity to KO Couture.
He just put a very strong likelihood on Couture dismantling him.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
Toney probably does not have the "capacity" to KO Couture
but it makes sense, from Dana’s perspective, to shout that from the roof-tops.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
Agreed
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jul 15, 2010 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
Everyone’s saying Toney’s no puncher, out of shape etc but unless Couture takes him down immediately he’s gonna eat some well-timed, non-telegraphed leather. Made himself an easy ’ target ’ but don’t be sleepin’ on James.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
It doesn't matter
unless Couture takes him down immediately
Couture will be taking Toney down immediately. And, maybe on the way in Couture may eat something, but Toney’s never had the kind of juice to one or two punch KO legit guys.
And further, I don’t buy the “oh but 4 oz gloves” line either. – On the relevant part of the hand, those gloves ain’t much different in my experience. They offer less coverage for defense, but James has never had a problem hitting his man cleanly.
This whole thing is a set-up. Go over to Bloody Elbow and you see articles titled “Is the UFC playing Russian Roulette by pitting Couture against Toney?” – These statements are straw men. Toney’s got virtually no shot. If it were a different boxer, if it were David Tua or a Klit or Haye, or anybody with legit pop at the weight he’d have a shot. But Toney doesn’t even have the proverbial “puncher’s chance”, and all knows how to do is punch!
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
I hear ya mate
And I’m a Randy Couture fan – the man’s a living legend. But there’s a Grand Canyon-sized difference in their boxing abilities, regardless of Toney not being a one punch KO artist.
IF – and a bloody big IF – Toney has some semblance of shit together ( is it at 205?) then will a wide open Couture – who does get crumpled and stopped – cope with a Toney, who’s no telegraphing Iceman?
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
Not at 205
Toney doesn’t want to make the weight. He also doesn’t want any weight advantage, so it’s going to be a “heavyweight” fight, but both fighters are going to contracted to make 220lbs, I believe.
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
by Luke Thomas on Jul 15, 2010 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
That seems fair enough. Honestly James trying to burn down to 205 seemed like a bad idea to me. He hasn’t been that low in years and years.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 15, 2010 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions
paris hilton on the main page. great day in BLH history
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on Jul 15, 2010 12:31 AM EDT reply actions
We all agree that Toney will probably lose against Couture, but it’s worth noting that this fight has generated more interest, good or bad, than any recent fight not involving a Mayweather or a Pacquiao. And it surely brings James his biggest payday in many years.
That’s a Toney win, in my book.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
I’m honestly happy for him that he worked UFC into giving him what is, like you said, almost surely his best payday in years. I think JT is cooked and that he’ll surely lose to Couture, but good for him.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 15, 2010 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
It's something he can retire on
And, I get the impression that he needs that.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jul 15, 2010 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
What do boxing people think about this matchup?
Keep Firing, Assholes!
Have you accepted BROCKLESNARRRRRR!!!!!!! as your personal Heavyweight Champion?
Seems like they mostly don't care
We all know it’s a mismatch. Couture beats Toney quickly and brutally unless he’s just shot.
There might be more hype for it among boxing folks once it gets closer.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Yeah it’s a mismatch. But what intrigues me is Couture’s vulnerability to a punch. He’s a tough hombre but not only does he get dropped, he gets crumpled. He walks onto one, legs go beneath him, fight over.
Toney throws well timed, instinctive punches. What if his footwork allows him to stay away from Randy’s shot? Will a 47 yr old Couture get nailed coming in? Doesn’t seem too far fetched to me.
Toney will be the hardest, most scientific puncher Randy has faced. The Natural’s previous opponents -with all due respect – were all arm punchers. Toney’s setting himself up no doubt, but Randy’s also setting himself up for the knockout.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
There is no question that James Toney is a better boxer not only than anyone that Couture has ever faced, but anyone in MMA, period, no matter what weight class, and no matter how flabby and old James Toney gets. But Toney’s style of boxing doesn’t translate well to MMA to me and if anyone thinks Couture is going to stand with Toney, they’re nuts. Couture is going to embarrass him immediately, and there’s nothing James can do when Randy shoots for his legs. His boxing footwork will do him no good against Couture’s shot, IMO.
I am mildly intrigued just because it’s a couple of guys whose skills I respect, even if I’m not the biggest Toney fan in the world, and because stranger things have happened than Toney catching Couture. I just don’t see it happening.
If it does happen I’ll fake pretending I really give a crap and crow about it to the Affliction shirts though. Then I’ll claim that Evander Holyfield would beat Brock Lesnar to really drive up the hits.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 16, 2010 3:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Comedy!
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
by Drunken cutman on Jul 16, 2010 6:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Haha!!
Toney’s style of boxing doesn’t translate well to MMA
Randy’s open for the uppercut whenever he shoots – Toney throws a nice right uppercut.
His boxing footwork will do him no good against Couture’s shot
,
See above
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
Have You seen an uppercut at knee level?
"Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment."
-Lao Tzu
He has to get to knee level first.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
Um
That’s why they call it changing levels. As someone who has executed many a double leg takedown, you can do the variety called the “knee pound” where the front leg balancing in on the shot goes all the way down where the knee touches the floor as you power through the shot. When you do that, you are roughly eye level with the opponent’s waist. I’m with you that Couture’s chin is vulnerable. The guy is 47 and not at all able to take a shot like he used to. And I also think Couture could get nailed in the clinch from an uppercut.
What I do not think is true is that Couture will catch an uppercut on the way in for a knee-pound double. That’s a low percentage shot and not nearly as powerful (in most cases) as a well-timed knee. That’s a far more effective to counter. It’s easier to time and generally a significantly harder shot. You feed someone a knee as they shoot in and they’re going to suffer much more than if you try to punch them coming in (again, in the vast majority of cases).
Follow me on Twitter: @MMANation.
Changing levels, the knee pound - I get ya Luke
What I’m saying is this; as Randy moves forward and is mid level change, his exposed jaw is also moving forward and downward. His momentum is walking him (or shooting him) onto a waiting uppercut (or a short equilibrium rattling right to the top of the head) before his head even gets to waist level. I dunno, maybe Randy’s that fast on his feet that this won’t be a problem but I see it as a risky move against a salty old pug like Toney ,who is nothing if not accurate.
Chin first onto a well-timed knee – even James could lift a knee.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
Except shooting is reflexive with wrestlers.
It’s like breathing. Unless you’re a wrestler yourself, you’re not seeing it coming til it happens.
"Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment."
-Lao Tzu
I severely doubt Couture is going to "shoot" anyway
He’s just going to work a Greco clinch and work on trips. Toney is going to have enough time to get 2 punches in before Couture grabs and holds on.
Not afraid to nitpick
Toney hasn't knocked a guy OUT since 2002
When he weighed 190. Toney could get off 100 punches – unless Couture’s chin is just horrible (and I doubt it is), Toney’s not knocking him out. Even if he knocks Couture down by some miracle, Couture’s ground game is better enough that he’ll probably STILL have the advantage.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
The difference for me is
Toney has faced fighters who know how to roll with a punch, taking away some of the sting. I don’t see UFC stars rolling with a punch. Randy sometimes moves his head as he punches, ala young Tyson , but it’s a different story when there’s incoming.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
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