Manny Pacquiao will face Antonio Margarito on November 13
by Scott Christ on Jul 23, 2010 8:41 PM EDT
in Boxing News Analysis
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Kevin Iole of Yahoo! Sports reports that the deal is in place, and the fight is set: Manny Pacquiao will face Antonio Margarito on November 13, either in Mexico or in Las Vegas, if the Nevada State Athletic Commission can be convinced to license Margarito.
Arum said he decided to choose Margarito instead of Miguel Cotto, whom Pacquiao stopped in the 12th round in November, because it would be perceived as a more competitive bout. The bout will be offered on HBO.
"Cotto was beaten and even with [Hall of Fame trainer] Emanuel Steward now with him, I don’t think people believe that it’s enough to make a difference and I’m not sure they would buy it as competitive," Arum said by telephone from his vacation home in Los Angeles. "But putting aside the controversy about the wraps, the one thing you know for sure with a Margarito fight is that it will be a hell of a fight for however long it lasts.
"Margarito knows only one way to fight and that’s coming forward. They’re going to get in there and fight. That’s what people want to see."
So the good news is it appears that this will not head to pay-per-view, which is probably smart. This fight is going to be met with enough backlash as it is, and offering a non-PPV Pacquiao bout is sort of a way of trying to combat that, I think, maybe to get people to go, "Well at least it's not on pay-per-view."
Update: Kevin Iole updated and the fight will be on pay-per-view.
The fight will be contested for the WBC junior middleweight belt, which means Pacquiao will be attempting to win a recognized title in his seventh weight class.
Pacquiao (51-3-2, 38 KO) and Margarito (38-6, 27 KO) were mentioned as possible opponents a couple of years ago, after Pacquiao moved up to welterweight and obliterated Oscar de la Hoya in December 2008. At that time, Margarito was the top-ranked welterweight in the world, having beaten Miguel Cotto in the summer of 2008. Pacquiao trainer Freddie Roach dismissed the idea at the time, feeling that Margarito was simply too big for Pacquiao.
Now, it's a different world. Margarito, 32, was disgraced in January 2009 with a hand-wrap controversy before a brutal loss to Shane Mosley, which resulted in his license being indefinitely suspended by the state of California. Margarito was set to return on the undercard of Pacquiao's March 13 fight with Joshua Clottey this year, but the Texas commission did not grant Margarito a license. Margarito and Top Rank were criticized for attempting to bypass the California authorities, which they again did recently when they went to Nevada seeking a reinstatement. Nevada effectively told them they would not grant Margarito a license and that they should go through California.
There is a chance this will wind up in Las Vegas, though. The economy out there is still very poor, and Pacquiao is a huge draw who brings in a lot of money. And though many of us in the hardcore boxing circles may feel Margarito doesn't deserve to be in the ring anymore, that doesn't go for everybody. His comeback fight on May 8 in Mexico drew a ton of fans, and he still has many supporters. Like it or not -- and I admit I don't -- this is a smart money fight for Top Rank. It renews the Filipino-Mexican boxing rivalry, which Pacquiao has dominated over the years with wins over Mexican heroes such as Marco Antonio Barrera, Erik Morales and Juan Manuel Marquez, as well as notable names like Oscar Larios, Jorge Solis and Hector Velazquez.
But if the fight does wind up in Mexico, it will be a sensational atmosphere and you can expect a massive live crowd. They won't make Vegas money, but they'll make big money.
I personally feel that Bob Arum should be taken more to task for ignoring that there are very deserving and willing fighters out there who are not under his promotional banner. Arum has broken it down as if Margarito and Cotto were the only options. And on one hand, Arum and Top Rank can easily say that those are the two biggest money fights available for Pacquiao, and that's fine, but when you dismiss a fighter like Timothy Bradley for not having a big enough fanbase and not being a big enough star, yet a few months ago you were willing to put Pacquiao into a ring at Cowboys Stadium with Joshua Clottey, who has zero fanbase and absolutely no star power whatsoever, it becomes a bit more questionable and a bit less tidy. Bottom line is they looked for the most money, and Margarito is probably the most money they could make on a Pacquiao fight that isn't against Floyd Mayweather Jr., which as we all know is not happening right now. I understand why they're doing it, but I don't have to particularly like it, and I don't.
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This keeping things "in-house"
is not good.
Utter rubbish
What a waste. Just as the world was warming up to Pac and getting to know what he was all about, this abomination occurs. What a waste of talent. What a waste for boxing and everyone else who made this come about.
that
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
by Eddie Gonzalez on Jul 23, 2010 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions
am i the only one
who thinks that arum is totally risking the mayweather fight by sending pac in there with a lion like margarito? even if he gets to 85% of what he was against coto thats a scary matchup for manny. and on top of just the size he gets an extra 7 pounds. its pretty shitty that tony gets this payday despite the hand wraps, but like scott said its good business for top rank.
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
It’s a mildly risky fight, especially with Margarito being allowed to weigh in at probably 150 (I’m guessing they’re not gonna have a full 154-pound weight limit). Tony’s a big dude. I think the speed of Pacquaio will be a huge difference and that Margarito isn’t going to be able to do much of anything to him (Tony is sloooow) but there is some possible danger here. I’d bet off hand right now on Pacquiao winning a very lopsided decision and slicing Margarito up.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 23, 2010 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s very possible. Margarito is far more willing to take flush punches than Clottey was so we could see a mercy stoppage or a cut stoppage in this one. I really don’t think Margarito has much of a shot because I just can’t see him landing much on Manny. Manny’s way too fast for him and comes in throwing. Even a guy who doesn’t care about defense much like Margarito doesn’t like to be hit THAT much. I mean Shane Mosley, who is not as fast as Pacquiao, made Margarito look helpless at points with his speed.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 23, 2010 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll up it further and take a seventh round stoppage...
I guess it all depends on weight really.
Il see your 7
and Raise you (or undercut you considering) a 4th round stoppage.
Manny will stay on him and the speed will kill. Look for the ref to jump after Margo’s heart is ripped from him by the pace of Pac’s punches.
To quote Roach. " He Cant handle your speed son"
by Sweet science on Jul 24, 2010 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
anothe thing
tony was too big at 147.. but ok at 154 (or a catchweight)? manny’s speed WILL kill, shane beat him with speed more than power imo.
what if tony wins? does arum and top rank still try to make manny vs floyd? even tho you already know that floyd will immediately dismiss manny as un-worthy immediately after a loss.
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
by Eddie Gonzalez on Jul 23, 2010 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions
If Margarito wins, Arum will probably position him as the glorious stud and patron saint of Mexican boxing that Floyd Mayweather has always been scared to face, and Manny will fight Juan Manuel Marquez again or just go into politics for good.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 23, 2010 9:11 PM EDT up reply actions
and lord knows
floyd isnt taking that fight…
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
by Eddie Gonzalez on Jul 23, 2010 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he’d fight Margarito in theory, because Margarito is a very easy mark for a guy like Floyd, but I doubt he’ll work with Bob Arum.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 23, 2010 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
itd kinda be
the only money fight out there for him…
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
by Eddie Gonzalez on Jul 23, 2010 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions
and a sacrificial one at that...
Pacquiao will slice him up.
PAC Will Win
Margarito was loading his gloves because he had to—that says to me that he can’t make it any other way; that was 1 yr. ago or more, and he’s no longer young, and he hasn’t fought much since. I bet he’ll get pulverized fast.
Blah
This will probably be the first ever Pacquiao PPV I don’t buy. I don’t want my money going to Margarito, period. And yeah, I even bought the Solis fight.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Sounds like it’ll be on HBO from Iole’s article.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 23, 2010 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I highly doubt it...
Calzaghe-Jones was even on HBO PPV…
I can't imagine it will be
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Absolutely PPV
And no way do I pay.
by The Boxer Rebellion on Jul 23, 2010 10:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
yeah it's on PPV
Iole updated
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 23, 2010 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Hahahahahahahahaha
Absolutely no. Boxing fans need to unite on this.
by The Boxer Rebellion on Jul 23, 2010 10:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
PPV or not to be
“So the good news is it appears this will not head to Pay per view, which is probably smart.” SC
Someone
posted on another site “i wonder how much Arum has negotiated to pay Margarito to take a dive around rd 9”………….I had to smile.
Wouldn’t suprise me with those two.
Well...
Fuck Manny Pacquiao.
Fuck Antonio Margarito.
Fuck Bob Arum.
Fuck Floyd Mayweather.
Fuck Leonard Ellebe.
Have I missed anyone? This is a complete, disgusting, dishonorable debacle, and represents everything wrong with boxing.
by The Boxer Rebellion on Jul 23, 2010 9:37 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 2 recs
Yep
Fuck Richard Schaefer.
by The Boxer Rebellion on Jul 23, 2010 9:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't know.
His level of culpability is not entirely clear to me. On one hand, I think he’s tried hard to make PBF- Pacman. On the other, he’s agreeing to be involved in this debacle. So I think I’m just going to kind of shake my fist at him.
by The Boxer Rebellion on Jul 23, 2010 9:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Greenberg
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Greenberg
has refused to acknowledge the fact that he was negotiating with Mayweather’s side and therefore allowed Ellerbe’s ridiculous statement to be given more attention than it should have been.
They are all idiots,imo.
Highly paid,supposedly professional idiots.
by Matt Mosley on Jul 23, 2010 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I know they aren’t “idiots” but they just annoy me that they couldn’t get this done.
Persoanally i blame the 2 fighters,Arum and Al Haymon the most.
by Matt Mosley on Jul 23, 2010 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
And Michael Koncz
just because
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Yeah I'll do this for you...
Fuck Michael Koncz
Oh absolutely
Fuck Michael Koncz. Two extended middle fingers for that guy.
I hope the mods will forgive my outburst. But this just makes my blood boil.
by The Boxer Rebellion on Jul 23, 2010 9:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Negative outbursts are about what I expected and nobody is being crass or terribly out of line or whatever.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 23, 2010 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Non-PPV?
It’s an admission that this fight sorta shouldn’t be happening, but hey, when was the last time you could see Pacquiao for “free”? (Like I’ve even got basic cable.)
More importantly, this really seems like a waste of Pac’s best years/last years, with Margarito’s greatest win all but discredited, and his tune-up fight a race against rust.
The best thing you can say is that, unlike Clottey, he will swing, and thus, he will go down.
The worst is…why exactly is he squandering 2010 on Clottey and Margarito? (a) His greedy promoter and, b) To a good extent, of course, Mayweather.)
Damnit!
Fight Bradley! I hate money bullshit in sports. Fuck man. On a more positive note, it would be kinda interesting if this turns out like Duran v Hearns.
I doubt he’ll come in over 147. They’ll probably have this at a 150 catchweight.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 23, 2010 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions
He can weigh in at 147.5 without draining
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I’m just guessing about the catchweight. I can’t imagine they’ll have Margarito able to weigh in at a full 154, and 150 seems likely to me.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 23, 2010 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I imagine Margo will outweigh him by at least 10 pounds in the ring
But so did Cotto, probably, and Clottey definitely.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I don’t think he’s ever weighed 150 pounds in his life.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 23, 2010 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
And
Though I genuinely believe PAC will win, I’m SO rooting for Margarito!! I want all promoters and fighters involved in Pac-May to suffer!
by The Boxer Rebellion on Jul 23, 2010 10:09 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I understand your spirit, Boxer, but this is one reason Top Rank fighters fight Top Rank fighters: no matter what, Arum wins. If you want Bob Arum to suffer, wish for a tree to fall on one of his fighters.
by El Destruyo on Jul 23, 2010 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
ok im an mma fan who became a casual boxing fan due to my following of combat sports
so my opinion is a little ignorant but still jesus christ this is disgraceful margarito should have a lifetime ban for the glove fiasco and pac and mayweather just dont wanna fight anyone who could potentially ruin their winning streaks
bob arum is one of the people killing boxing too this guys track record is absurd i dont understand how hes still in the business
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
by milk72 on Jul 23, 2010 10:23 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree.Good post.
That pretty much sums up this ridiculous situation,imo.
by Matt Mosley on Jul 23, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
i only say ignorant cause ive never really seen any of the guys fights and am basing my info on hearsay
the main thing i hate about boxing though is their are no tough competitive fights outside the super six, noone wants to lose ull see guys with a 35-0 record who totally suck but have been beating the james thompsons (the guy heavyweights in mma fight when they wanna guarentee a win, even kimbo beat him) of the world
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
There
are other top quality matchups going on such as JM Lopez v Rafa Marquez and hopefully Fernando Montiel v Nonito Donaire in the autumn(plus other top 10 contender/solid matchups),along with the Super 6 fights but this was THE fight and once again boxing shot itself in the foot.
The more casual boxing fans only take notice of the big fights (which oftendon’t get made or at least not at the time they should)
by Matt Mosley on Jul 23, 2010 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions
i hate comparing the sports cause they're really so different
but in mma jon jones (a huge up and comer) is fighting in a week and its free, and the silva vs sonnen card is being marketed as usa vs brasil since most of the fights on the card are
now in boxing i have no idea who to follow, whos good, which belts matter, and really anything i just watch the super six and follow the headlines (which by the way are generally very very negative)
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
i have no idea who to follow, whos good
Watch and decide for yourself.
which belts matter
The Ring’s. That’s it. The alphabet body belts are junk. Some have been earned, but so many haven’t that I just dismiss them all.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 23, 2010 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll argue with myself
Watch and decide for yourself.
“Well that’d be great if almost everything noteworthy in America wasn’t on subscription cable and pay-per-view.”
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 23, 2010 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes,
as SC says if you go to the Ring website and follow their rankings and title holders you can’t go far wrong.
They are the only one’s that matter.
by Matt Mosley on Jul 23, 2010 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Their rankings have their issues but so do everyone’s, and they’re still better than the absurd sanctioning body pay-to-rank. ESPN’s ratings are fine, too.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 23, 2010 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
I’ve been a boxing fan for years but have started following MMA over the last 2-3 years.I am just working my way through the old Pride dvds.
I’m onto Final Conflict 2003 at the moment which i hear was a great event.
I think the way Pride put on their big shows was a real sight to behold and obviously Dana White is excellent at what he does.
The UFC is just marketed so much better.But then it’s not like they are lying to the people either.The end product is usually just as good if not better than advertised.
I love boxing for the sport side and always will but the business side gets very ugly all too often
by Matt Mosley on Jul 23, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
the easy thing with the ufc now is that every one of their belt holders is #1 in their respective division
i love watching boxing but following it requires so much work and money, the politics are out of control
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
Like SC said,
the more you follow it,the more you get to know who the top guys are at each weight.Serious boxing fans who know their stuff know who the best guys are.
Like with Mayweather and Pacquaio,yeah they are no 1+2 P4P but there are a few other guys around their weight who aren’t as well known,like Timothy Bradley,Paul Williams,Sergio Martinez and Devon Alexander who are hot on their heels and either now or in the near future would more than likely give one or both of Floyd and Manny a seriously hard fight.
In fact with Martinez being a naturally bigger guy i would make him the favourite against both.
These fights are unlikely to get made though because they are seen as too much risk for too little reward.
Manny v Floyd was for MASSIVE bucks though,like $25m each minimum and they still couldn’t get it done.
So much for it being a business? :)
As you said above,they are scared to lose and it’s ridiculous.
Look at Randy Couture,16-10 but as you know he only has so many losses because he fought all them top guys and naturally bigger guys in many cases.
Undefeated records shouldn’t be as big a deal as some boxers make them out to be(looking at you Floyd).
by Matt Mosley on Jul 23, 2010 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Manny v Floyd was for MASSIVE bucks though,like $25m each minimum and they still couldn’t get it done.
$40 mil each was the number everyone was saying. That’s insane.
Undefeated records shouldn’t be as big a deal as some boxers make them out to be(looking at you Floyd).
I saw this conversation on the internet between two guys who didn’t know boxing at all, and one of them was going to Cotto-Foreman, and the other says, “I guess Foreman’s a badass. 29-0.” And I was like, “God. There are really people who buy these records.”
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 23, 2010 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Haha
Yeah 29-0 (25 bums,2 past their best,2 legit) :)
$40m?I was guessingat $25 but now you say it really is quite idiotic that they let that pass them by.
by Matt Mosley on Jul 23, 2010 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
In fact with Martinez being a naturally bigger guy i would make him the favourite against both
No suprise to most on here but i would make Williams at least even money against Floyd and favourite against Pac too.
by Matt Mosley on Jul 23, 2010 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions
thats why i love randy
hes been in 15 ufc title fights and never in the ufc has a guy faced a bum for a title shot
and i had no idea some guys were in manny and mayweathers ballpark skill wise and were rising contenders ill have to look into those guys
We have a saying back home that if your coming on, COME ON!!!!
Old Pride actually turned me off to MMA
First time I went to Japan, I watched a bunch of Pride, and I was just appalled by it. Basically just seemed like unskilled guys just beating the crap out of each other, mostly. I hear it’s different now.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Pride became pretty tremendous, but always had the “freakshow” fights. But it was never the overall skill level that UFC has now. (Even though many will argue that idea.)
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 24, 2010 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Pride
did have some freakshow fights and when i first saw it i thought it was too brutal with the soccer kicks to the head,which i think is ridiculous and the UFC don’t allow that shit.
But if you have grown to like/appreciate MMA,Pride events like Shockwave 2004,Crtitcal Countdown 2003 and 2005 and Bushido 9(all of which i have seen and would recommend) and Pride 33 (which i own but haven’t watched yet but which is widely regarded as the best Pride event ever) are some of the best MMA events of all time.
The main difference to UFC is that they are in a boxing ring and the rounds are set out differently but between about 2003-2007 Pride had many of the best MMA fighters in the world.(Anderson Silva,Fedor,Shogun Rua,Wanderlei Silva and Dan Henderson all fought their at one time and some of them were at their peaks at that stage).
by Matt Mosley on Jul 24, 2010 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions
My favorite Pride moment was when they had that 205 pound Grand Prix that Liddell was in representing UFC, and Dana White came over and had laid big money on Liddell, who got his ass beat by Quinton Jackson and Dana had to sit there all embarrassed, but that’s not the best part.
The best part was the TV graphic when Chuck came out that read:
CHACK LIDDEL
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 24, 2010 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
i’ve just been watching that lately.Haven’t got to that bit yet but i will look out for it.
I got the impression Pride made it hard for Liddell and the other UFC guy Ricco Rodriguez though.
Rodriguez got flat out robbed against Big Nog.
Former UFC champ v former Pride champ fighting in Japan and the UFC guy gets stitched up.
Something smelled fishy to me.
I think Dana thought they had rigged the draw to give Liddell a tough path to the final too.
It would have been no better of a time for that version of Chuck against Wanderlei Silva. Chuck did well, but he was just wrecked by Quinton. Chuck improved a lot after that and I’ve always wondered if maybe that humbling experience against one of the real best 205ers in the world at that point helped him.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 24, 2010 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Question
I’m more of an MMA fan but I casually follow boxing, and I’m just wondering why you think the soccer kicks to the head are too brutal? I’ve never really understood this: standing head kicks have much more power. If we’re willing to go along with those, I don’t see how kicking a grounded opponent is worse.
Not afraid to nitpick
I don't know if it's that specifically
But there was a lot of beating up on defenseless opponents that I saw. UFC seems to be much better about just stopping the fight when someone ends in that position.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I don’t like it because it just seems cowardly,like some pub drunk kicking a man while he’s down.Standing kicks are different because the other guy can defend himself better.
I suppose like i said it just seems thuggish and goes too far for me
To be honest i don’t like when they sometimes land an extra 1 or 2 punches when the other guy is clearly out of it.
I know sometimes it’s hard to stop the momentum and it’s the refs job to jump in but you do sometimes see sporting acts when one fighter will hold back cos he knows the damage is done.
Only one time i didn’t mind seeing the extra whack was when Hendo “made sure” against Bisping :)
If you let us know what you like in a fanshot
Most people here would be happy to make recommendations on fighters to follow or fights to catch on Youtube.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Honestly
with 5 inches on manny and possibly ten pounds. margo has a good chace on pummeling outside if stays sharp
If Margarito was better than he is and didn’t have negligible hand speed, I’d agree.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 23, 2010 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Nah, he doesn’t need to be left-handed. I just don’t think Margarito is good enough. He was completely embarrassed by Shane Mosley the last time he fought someone good. I’m not saying Margarito has NO CHANCE or anything, but I don’t think he has any better of a chance than I thought Clottey had, or I thought Mosley had against Mayweather. It’s just a different class.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 23, 2010 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Margarito would have a chance,
but, y’know, they’re now checking for that thing he’s most famous for reallllly closely.
God, I loathe Bob Arum right now.
by El Destruyo on Jul 24, 2010 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions
It's like a pyramid...
Mayweather—Pacquiao
The rest.
Once Mosley exposed Margo
And I hate using that term, but that’s really what happened – Mosley exposed his weaknesses to the rest of the world – I’m sure Roach figured out a relatively foolproof gameplan for Pacquiao to beat him, based on Mosley’s plan.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I don't know how much there was to expose--
Did you not know that he was slow?
Punched wide? Was not going to stop coming? And was easy to hit?
The man had basically been what he was all career long. Difference was that he’d been struggling with 147, had been in numerous brutal wars, had just paid a fierce price to defeat Cotto, had gone through a tough training camp (rumored anyway)—
And chinks were perhaps forming in that chin.
Otherwise, there was no reason to think that he wouldn’t do the same thing as always: Take an early shellacking and slowly walk Shane down. Most thought that—
And even if you want to throw in “career built on loaded gloves”—
Well, if you couldn’t game-plan Tony from one fight, you couldn’t game-plan.
A little like Bazooka Limon used to be—slow, wide, and here I come.
Now do something about it.
by Don From Prov on Jul 24, 2010 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Im not happy with this like anyone but atleast its a fight signed. I dont think its a realy safe fight for Pac. I think Marg can damage him. He may take few shots and open up with a combo inside. Manny’s chin has held up well but getting hit by someone that bigger cant be good. Marg will try make it a fire fight and Pac is always to willing to throw down
"I'm scared every time I go into the ring, but it's how you handle it. What you have to do is plant your feet, bite down on your mouthpiece and say, 'Let's go.'" Mike Tyson
I'm honestly fighting the urge to just write a whole series of biased articles on why nobody should buy this fight
But I just don’t have the time, and I don’t want to hurt the integrity of the site.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Well if you feel like writing one, go ahead. I’ll be ordering it but I’d probably agree with everything you want to say.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 24, 2010 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Why would that hurt the integrity of the site?
I don’t see how taking a stand against this is even remotely controversial. Boxing fans deserve better than this crap, and the only way it changes is if some of the money dries up. If people really did avoid this fight, and it did bad PPV numbers, maybe it would be the start of something good.
by The Boxer Rebellion on Jul 24, 2010 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
What gets me is that for someone who is being championed as the “Fighting Congressman” – he is pretty resigned to just doing whatever Bob and Koncz tell him to do.
Has anyone ever really asked Manny who he really wants to fight instead of choosing between two guys that his promoter DICTATES? Where is his voice in this? All I ever hear from him is just generalities and that he wants to make the people happy shtick. Maybe he prefers to fight Bradley, JMM 3, or even Berto…someone needs to ask him point blank about those guys.
With all the vitriol that i have thrown Floyds way the last 4 years, at least he does things his way and doesn’t let a promoter dictate what he does. Arum’s attitude of not letting anyone ride Top Ranks coat tails is disgusting and its amplified even more with this choice of Margarito. Who BTW is a very dangerous risk that Arum is willing to take because it means he will not have to share the pot of money. SMH
Funniest video for Pacquiao-Mayweather ever
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKDealPZygY
I disagree totally
Show me a POTUS (president of the United States) ad I will show you his handlers, his media consultants and his key financial backers. Show me his policy positions and I will list his lobbyists. Show me a CEO and I will show you his Board of Directors.
No man is an island. Not the most powerful or the least. They all have to listen to and more often than not temper their instincts with decisions that satisfy those who pay their rent.
Arum is Manny’s facilitator. Working together they have earned a fortune…and fame. Call two men so accomplished whatever you’d like; but don’t doubt their intelligence in navigating their business.
Floyd talks as if he’s the boss. He then hides behind his people hen it’s convenient. Some men surround themselves with ‘yes’ men because it comforts and works for them. In Floyd’s case, his IRS history tells me that h’s operating a top heavy but light in weight machine. I’ll take Arum and Manny’s any day.
One last thing, Arum is delivering a fight between two warriors. Floyd ain’t doing squat.
I agree on Manny having a voice,
just as Floyd could. If they wanted to fight each other badly enough, it would happen.
I’d respect Manny more if he demanded—
Well, most any fight than to give Margo this chance.
And btw, I’d even respect Arum a little bit if I for one moment thought he was doing this out of some loyalty to Margo—give him one last pay day. I still wouldn’t contribute to that payday, but—
by Don From Prov on Jul 24, 2010 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
And while I don't disagree
that idea of tempering “instincts with decisions that satisfy those who pay the rent”
Is, IMO, a big part of the problem in uncountable areas (that we can’t touch on here).
Some compromise might be unavoidable, but there are places to take a stand.
Integrity counts for a lot, and none of these fuckers have to worry about the rent.
by Don From Prov on Jul 24, 2010 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
"...who pay the rent"
is to some degree unavoidable.
It is also, IMO, etc.
I’ve screwed up posts before but in this case, the site ate part of my post.
Honest, professor!
by Don From Prov on Jul 24, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Don, I read all three posts.....
and it’s not that I don’t agree. Or dream. It’s just that I don’t expect.
As you said, the bigger existential issues will have to be addressed in some other forum….but in the bigger scheme of things, I do think Manny has been exemplary in his career, the majority of his choices and his determination to please not just his fans but all fans; to say nothing of his obvious commitment to give back some of what he has been so fortunate to have earned.
As for Arum, I haven’t heard any recent stories about his mishandling his fighter’s purses similar to the recent reports about Golden Boy. So as long as he continues to assemble a strong stable, make his men some good money and put on good matches (the Latin nights being some of the less hyped but more entertaining) I think Top Rank is better than most.
You're smart not to expect,
P2 (I wish I could make the squared sign).
I have been thinking about what JC40 said concerning Roach avoiding fighters with good right hands on Manny’s behalf. I’ve not, however, stopped and thought about just who else he might have faced from ligthtweight on upwards (which may = unfair), but it did stop me in my tracks.
Before he started the bigger weight jumps, full agreement on Manny’s choices.
I’m sure not going to consider Margo a good match. I’d rather see Angulo.
Likely, if Jr. is out of the picture, the only fights that Manny has that would, in my opinion, move him forward would—and should— be risky: Bradley or Alexander come to mind. Of far more danger would be Martinez and Williams, who seem to figure in a lot of discussions about what stepping up for one fighter or another would =. Of course, either would have to come down to 147 for Manny and both might be losing causes for him, but to me they would represent the kind of loss that enhances, not lessens a reputation. I don’t know: Who else at 140 or 147 = a real encounter? Kirkland is soon to be back. If Margo can do catchweight, then—
by Don From Prov on Jul 24, 2010 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Manny is in a place where every decision is and will be scrutinized ad nauseum.
He’s earned it … and fortunately for us and for him he thrives on remaining accessible. Maintaining this kind of historic run and doing so against both the established and the young and hungry is no easy task. Satisfying us is all the harder.
I would love to see him move back down and fight Bradley and/or Alexander. I hold both in high regard but believe…if those fights were to happen very soon….Manny might hurt them worse than their burgeoning careers deserve.
As for Paul Williams, he has looked as if he’s regressing in his last two fights. But he remains an Octopus who love to throw leather. I suspect Manny would get inside and put a beating on a tall man fighting short….but who knows. P-Will is so long and Manny is so short, it would be fun while it lasted. Should they ever sign to meet, LTP better have his best cut-man on standby.
Sergio is just too big IMO. People forget that a little over a year ago we were wondering (so was he) if he could even fight at welter. Sergio reigns at 154 and is the Middleweight Champion.
You just have to know when too much is too much. I think Manny does.
Touche
However, it still doesn’t answer the question of why Top Rank won’t consider Timothy Bradley. To say that Manny doesn’t have a million yes men around him shows that you must not know about the modus operandi for alot of his “hangers-ons”(sic?) in the Phillipines.
Lastly, One of your warriors doesn’t have a license to fight in the U.S. because he is a certified cheat. My point was that no one is clamoring for this bout except for Top Rank and the city of Monterrey.
I'm Focused Man
it still doesn’t answer the question of why Top Rank won’t consider Timothy Bradley
Bradley doesn’t work for Top Rank, Bradley doesn’t have the Mexican audience, Bradley isn’t slower than molasses, Bradley hasn’t been beaten up by boxing yet.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 24, 2010 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Nobody said Manny doesn't have yes men.....
I simply said he and Arum have been good for each other. BVery good in fact. and that Arum keeps him in the ring frequently with top quality opponents. So my conclusion is that with Roach, Ariza, Arum and yes, even Koncz. The little man has assembled a winning organization.
Margarito will get his license or there won’t be a fight. I suspect he will. I also have been consistent. He served his time…and he is/was one of the most entertaining fighters jn the game.
My point is that people are clamoring to see the best fighters fight; something Manny does regularly despite his fortune. The vast and overwhelming majority of matches are between B and D fighters. That’s just a fact. Would I prefer if the best always fought only the very best? Yes, but I live in reality. Me, I will watch any A fighter any time. Would I love to see Manny and Floyd…. you bet. But don’t blame Arum.
Ask Floyd why they didn’t fight.
We are on the same page at the end of the day, believe me. I am hoping and praying that Manny doesn’t call for a catch weight if this is indeed for a belt at 154. I can substantiate him asking for a 75/25 split his way, but not a catchweight.
The whole fiasco has caused me to second guess everything a million times. I haven’t liked the way Floyd’s career has played itself out since the 1st match with Castillo, but I do see how he has made the most money out of any boxer over his last 4 bouts. Is it a coincidence that this came after he left Arum? Its tough to say. So as far as why Floyd doesn’t want the fight right now? Too many variables – 1. He doesn’t want to be dictated to (50-50 split) 2. Income tax for the 2010 3. No guarantee he will have Roger in his corner 4. “Random blood testing” 5. no real direct negotions (ie Top Rank – Floyds camp w/o HBO)
If boxing didn’t have so many promoters and sanctioning bodies, then we may not be in the kind of mess we are in today. Say what you will about Dana White, but at least there is single recognized champ in each division fighting the #1 contenders at least twice a year. I think there is some stuff happening in the HBO background now that may be able to “punish” Floyd (read: Al Haymon’s stable) for his lackadaisical reaction to all this. But I digress…
I'm Focused Man
I think a lot of that winning organization is despite its members, not because of it
Manny has always seemed to eager to try to please everyone, and just doesn’t know when to say no. It became really apparent when there was the fiasco when he illegally signed with GBP.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
No doubt Brick
But in the end we judge winning organizations by what they accomplish ….and what the keep. Manny is doing just fine by that standard
I don't want to suggest I'm thrilled with the politics of boxing
But I’m a realist. I didn’t really think Obama would and/or could ’change ’ much but he did get rid of Bush. In Realpolitik, one comes to expect the plausible…not the promises of the campaign.
In boxing, I just expect fighters to meet the better challenges with a reasonable degree of frequency to earn their props…..not to meet the best every time. I wish…but then I wish my wife would tell me to sleep with the hot intern I just hired. And we both know that ain’t gonna happen; her telling me that is.
bq. My point was that no one is clamoring for this bout except for Top Rank and the city of Monterrey.
You may be right but I know that one entire country, the Philippines, and another fight crazy country, Mexico and the bougeoning city of Monterey will be watching this fight like it was the World Cup.
That belief,
no offense PP, in crap like realpolitik and “don’t let the perfect get in the way of the good”
is the death of cultures
individuals, and such lowly enterprises as sports
by Don From Prov on Jul 24, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry I meant to highlight one of your comments
My point was that no one is clamoring for this bout except for Top Rank and the city of Monterrey.
You may be right but I know that one entire country, the Philippines, and another fight crazy country, Mexico and the bougeoning city of Monterey will be watching this fight like it was the World
The funny thing is that Manny Pacquiao is very popular in Mexico regardless of his success against Mexican fighters over the last decade. If Manny really wanted to set the country on fire – he would fight Angulo and Saul Alvarez next year @ the legitimate limit of 154.
Then Floyd would really look like KFC unless he fought P. Williams and Sergio Martinez to counteract that.
Ah to dream…
I'm Focused Man
Ain't gonna happen though
I 100% guarantee you, if Manny wins and still can’t make a Mayweather fight, his next fight will be a Cotto rematch. And Arum will try to hype it up as the greatest thing since sliced bread, since it would be a unification fight.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Saw it comin'
Fuck Margarito and every piece of lowlife scum that rode in on him – he lost the right to call himself a fighter. A wise cop once told me " son you never get caught the first time." – Margarito’s a bully minus his tools – he’ll walk onto Pacman’s punches, fall apart mentally and get sliced to ribbons – TKO6. Dazed and confused carried back to his corner – again.
I was hoping Kirkland would get his hands on the ten dollar whore first but this will do.
"Anytime you go thirty rounds with a guy, try to kill each other, and have the utmost respect for each other, no one understands that, but guys who have been to war understand it." - Micky Ward on Arturo Gatti.
You were hoping a convicted armed robber would be reinstated.
And get o fight a man who once was caught with illegal wraps. Now that’s justice.
Looking Beyond...
all of the political and moral reasons why this is a shitty fight, we seem to forget that Antonio Margarito is the man that made Shane Mosely look like the fastest and most accurate boxer on earth. I see no way that he beats Pacquiao, and I will certainly not be buying the PPV.
Agreed. He will look even slower than he did fighting SSM
And he will be seeing….or should I say not seeing….punches so fast that Shane will look as if he was punching through glue.
I will be watching on PPV. Always do, good or bad. Just love the game.
- Margarito.
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.
by theworldsoldestsport on Jul 24, 2010 11:59 AM EDT reply actions
I feel cheated
I am bitter and I agree with Boxer rebellion above, he voiced everything I would like to say.
.
by teabaggingexper on Jul 24, 2010 12:07 PM EDT reply actions
7th or 8th?
I would love to sound off on the rest of the subject matter, but you gents have it pretty covered. I was just wondering if this will be Pacman’s 8th weight class that he won a belt in. And I would totally buy this fight JUST to see Margocheato get beat half-to-death, like he tried to do to Cotto . . .
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