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Bad Left Hook Boxing Rankings Update: August 1, 2010

Dmitry Pirog made a big impression on Saturday night. (Photo by Ethan Miller/Getty Images)

It's been a while since I did a major rankings update for our division-by-division top tens, but I went through and made some adjustments. As I've said before, these are not traditional rankings in the sense that you might stay where you are forever if you don't lose. These rankings -- like every other set in the world -- are subjective and I believe deserve to be revisited. Not to make it sound like serious business or anything, but spots should be earned, not just kept.

We'll start off with a big example of what I mean.

Featherweight

1. Juan Manuel Lopez (2)
2. Celestino Caballero (3)
3. Yuriorkis Gamboa (4)
4. Rafael Marquez (5)
5. Chris John (1)
6. Elio Rojas (7)
7. Steven Luevano (6)
8. Daniel Ponce de Leon (8)
9. Orlando Salido (9)
10. Cristobal Cruz (10)

Chris John drops from the top spot to number five because I just don't feel he deserves to be called the best featherweight in the world anymore. On April 11, I did a feature on the featherweight top ten, and kept John at the top spot, almost talking myself into why I was doing it. But my mind has changed. He just hasn't really earned it. He hasn't fought since last September, when he beat Rocky Juarez in a rematch. Since then there have been tentative dates set against weak opponents that haven't panned out, and pretty clear indications out of Indonesia that Chris John is not looking to fight any of the top guys. So why is he ranked No. 1? He stayed there for a good while because the 126-pound division just wasn't very good. Right now, it's one of the best divisions in boxing, and the top five stacks up well to any other top five you're going to find in the sport.

It also came down to the following four questions:

  1. Would John beat Juan Manuel Lopez? In my opinion, no.
  2. Would John beat Celestino Caballero? In my opinion, no.
  3. Would John beat Yuriorkis Gamboa? In my opinion, no.
  4. Would John beat Rafael Marquez? In my opinion, no.

Chris John is a very good boxer. But his ambition is lacking. Yuriorkis Gamboa hasn't fought the toughest opposition in the world, either, but fights against Rogers Mtagwa and the upcoming bout with Orlando Salido are on par with what Chris John has done from 2003 to present, with the exception of John's fight against Juan Manuel Marquez in 2006. Rocky Juarez is a quality enough fighter, but really no higher-regarded last year than Salido is now. It may tip slightly in Juarez's favor, but that's just nitpicking. John has held his belt hostage for most of his reign fighting mediocre opponents. If he were showing any desire to fight a top featherweight, maybe I wouldn't drop him below the other four. But he's a month and a half away from being inactive for a year.

Middleweight

1. Sergio Martinez (1)
2. Paul Williams (2)
3. Kelly Pavlik (3)
4. Felix Sturm (4)
5. Dmitry Pirog (-)
6. Sebastian Sylvester (5)
7. David Lemieux (-)
8. Gennady Golovkin (8)
9. Matthew Macklin (10)
10. Darren Barker (9)

This is a division on the precipice of a major overhaul. I keep Paul Williams ranked here and not at 154 for the time being. It's a judgment call where to rank him, but he has to go somewhere.

The big roll-in, obviously, is Dmitry Pirog, who made a lot of fans on Saturday night. I'm frankly not convinced at this point that anyone from number six on down would beat Danny Jacobs (well, probably Lemieux, but I'll get to him in a moment), but Pirog crushed him in convincing fashion and looked like a real ring general. There has already been talk, apparently, about having Pirog face middleweight champion Sergio Martinez in October. We'll see.

Kelly Pavlik stays at number three on resume, mostly. Where his career goes from this point is really up in the air. It appears he'll stay at 160 instead of moving up to 168, but who knows who he'll be fighting? Top Rank likely will offer him a soft touch, somewhat in the post-Hopkins style of Marco Antonio Rubio, though Rubio was one of Pavlik's mandatories at the time. Felix Sturm will be getting back in action on September 4 against Giovanni Lorenzo, who's a borderline top ten sort of guy. Lorenzo can punch and Sturm will have been out of the ring for 14 months by the time they fight. An upset there would not shock me, though it would have to be a stoppage. Lorenzo will get zero favors on the cards against Sturm.

David Lemieux also enters the rankings at number seven. That might seem premature, but he is vicious, and I don't think there is anyone else at 160 with his power, and he has a great in-ring demeanor, too. He really does look like the complete package. Frankly I'd pick him to beat Sebastian Sylvester without a lot of trouble if they fought next. The next win Lemieux gets over a credible opponent could boost him over Sylvester. He's that impressive of a young fighter.

Gennady Golovkin is a legit fighter, but his upcoming bout is iffy at best. It's in Mexico against a Colombian named Milton Nunez, who has a nice looking knockout rate against total scrubs in Colombia. Expect Golovkin to likely crush him in short order, and the fact that the WBA sanctioned that as a vacant interim title fight is -- you guessed it! -- ridiculous.

Then you have Darren Barker, who didn't look great in his last fight, and Matthew Macklin, who last fought in December. Those two are set to meet on September 18 in what will essentially serve as a top ten eliminator for me.

A bunch of others could be here. 26-year-old Hassan N'Dam N'Jikam has talent, but his opposition has been soft. A good European-level fight would be great to see for him. I don't count out Danny Jacobs from joining this list by summer 2011. Veteran Roman Karmazin could be on this list, but I get the feeling his draw with Sebastian Sylvester, which was a close and competitive fight, was about all he had left. Peter Manfredo Jr. has been much better since getting back down to 160, but I still doubt his chances against really top-level foes. Lajuan Simon is still out there under the radar, and has won two straight. Sebastian Zbik dropped out of the top ten, because I'm just not a very big fan of him, to be honest. I think he would have some real problems with even Macklin and Barker, for instance, and would need some home cooking to beat either of them. Fernando Guerrero is a guy I really like, but am realistic about. He's going to have some problems with his height eventually. Craig McEwan is one of those OK prospects that might turn out to be a really good fighter, or might turn into an also-ran.

Many of the other divisions have also been updated, but I wanted to really look at 126 and 160 today. Again, the full rankings can be seen here.

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I like Williams over Martinez and John over Marquez. I also like Lemieux over Sylvester, and I only saw the latter part of the final round of Pirog, so I don’t know what to think about him yet.

Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"

by Matt Miller on Aug 2, 2010 2:20 AM EDT reply actions  

I don’t think he could rank Williams over Martinez when Martinez just took the lineal 160lb title off Pavlik.
Yes,Williams did beat Martinez but it was an extremely close fight and Martinez has ascended since then.

by Matt Mosley on Aug 2, 2010 3:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think you dismiss Williams' win too easily

Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"

by Matt Miller on Aug 3, 2010 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well,

i called it an “extremely close fight” (which i gave to Williams by one point) so no i’m not dismissing it at all.
Martinez has performed better and against better opposition since that fight.

by Matt Mosley on Aug 3, 2010 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hopefully

the rematch is going to be made for October/November so we might get an answer as to who is no.1 soon.

by Matt Mosley on Aug 3, 2010 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with you that williams has to be ranked over Martinez right now

but I do also think that Sergio will hand him his ass on a plate in a rematch. And I say this as an unashamed Williams fan.

Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)

by Chaos100 on Aug 3, 2010 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree with you on John over Marquez

Can’t really see the justification for putting Martinez in ahead of Williams due to Williams having a win over him very recently.

Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)

by Chaos100 on Aug 3, 2010 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

The justification would be that Martinez is lineal champ in the divisionin question.

"We've come a long way, and I'm not talking about Virginia Slims, either." - Art Howe

by EastCoastA on Aug 3, 2010 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I still don't buy it, to be honest.

This is like the thing with Bernard Dunne and Rendall Munroe: Martinez beat Dunne, Munroe beat Martinez, Dunne gets a title shot and beats Cordoba, Dunne is ranked over a man who beat the guy who beat him? If these events are seperated over a few years then ok, I can hadle that, but Williams beat Martinez within the last year. Williams has earnt, in the ring, the right to be ranked over Martinez, IMO.

Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)

by Chaos100 on Aug 4, 2010 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

What if you don’t think Williams actually beat Martinez? Boxing being a judged sport (when there is no stoppage) clouds these things, too. That fight was incredibly close and I had it for Martinez. I am not saying Williams got a gift or anything like that, but Martinez holding the legitimate championship tips it for him, because I don’t see Williams’ win as some definitive statement of his superiority to Martinez. If that had been the case — like if Williams had clearly beaten Sergio — Williams would be ranked No. 1, championship or not. The legit titles I do respect a lot.

Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."

by Scott Christ on Aug 5, 2010 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

If you had Martinez winning, then that makes perfect sense.

As long as you realise that then makes it justifiable for people to have Marquez over Pacquiao in their P4P list too… since he beat him twice, don’t you know…. ;)

Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)

by Chaos100 on Aug 6, 2010 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t see how that could hold up to scrutiny if you look at where they’re both at NOW, but yeah, I know what you mean.

Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."

by Scott Christ on Aug 7, 2010 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nonito Donaire

I’m not sure I get the non-ranking of Nonito Donaire. If he’s not ranked at 115 (where he had his last three fights) or 118 (where I guess he’s fighting next), then I guess he’s sort of stuck in limbo. I would think 115 is appropriate, but it’s not like Caballero has beat a ton of great fighters at 126 to earn his #2 ranking there.

Also, it looks like 115 wasn’t redone for some reason, but it probably should be. Topo Rosas beat Nongqayi and Rodrigo Guerrero got a decent win (and for me would be top 10 at this point when you combine that with Rosas wining a title).

I like the rankings overall though. Good mix of record and head to head.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Aug 2, 2010 8:00 AM EDT reply actions  

Yeah it’s limbo for Nonito — Darchinyan I rank at 118 because he’s fought there, but I have him a bit lower than most might because I’m not entirely sold on him being able to beat the top guys in that division, which is of course a very good division. 115 just got redone as I simply missed it when going through the first time.

Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."

by Scott Christ on Aug 5, 2010 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Also

Just for the left-hand sidebar, Pacquiao was stripped of his Ring title at 140.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Aug 2, 2010 11:16 AM EDT reply actions  

Good. Took long enough.

by El Destruyo on Aug 2, 2010 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chris John

I like John’s talent. I believe he would beat the guys you listed, but the problem is, could and would. As you say, he’s just not fighting the guys to prove, and turn the could and would into did. So, I can’t argue against your rankings there. I wish I could, but John’s had the time to show and prove and he hasn’t.

by John Genco on Aug 2, 2010 12:00 PM EDT reply actions  

At this point I feel like he's faded too

Prime Chris John was a damn good fighter. Half wasted career though. His Indonesian management just sucks. They’ve publicly said they don’t want him to risk losing by fighting anyone dangerous at this point.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Aug 2, 2010 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Two quick thoughts:

1) I still like Chris John over Rafael Marquez at 126. What he’d do might look a bit like running and he’d probably damn well near get KO’d at the end, but I think he’d win a fair decision.

2) Why limit fighters to one division artificially? I’ve never understood that. If a fighter is actively campaigning in multiple divisions, then rank him in multiple divisions. Paul Williams, for example, should be ranked at both 154 and 160 at this point.

by jcarr71 on Aug 2, 2010 2:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Agreed on all counts.

Two really good points.

Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)

by Chaos100 on Aug 3, 2010 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I still like Chris John over Rafael Marquez at 126. What he’d do might look a bit like running and he’d probably damn well near get KO’d at the end, but I think he’d win a fair decision.

Very possible. That’s the one I struggled on a hair, and most debated. I think he could outbox Rafael, but Rafael is himself a very good boxer, and is a strong, accurate puncher who I don’t think John could keep off him long enough. Chris was hurt in both fights against Juarez, and I think Marquez is more destructive and is far more relentless than Rocky.

Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."

by Scott Christ on Aug 5, 2010 8:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Marquez of 2 or 3 years ago, I agree with you.

Marquez against Izzy was still solid, but he didn’t seem as quick as I remember, and having lost a step I think could be the deciding factor if he fought John.

Close, but I edge it for John.

Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)

by Chaos100 on Aug 6, 2010 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

H/W rankings

 I don’t see any glaring discrepencies at any of the weight divisions…‘cept if Adamek KOs Grant I’d swap spots with him and Haye, Tomasz and Davids opponents are not that different in terms of talent, but TA moves up due to being more active. Will Haye ever fight again?

by Iron Beach on Aug 2, 2010 4:04 PM EDT reply actions  

I thought he had a fight with Audley Harrison coming down the road.

by Verklemptomaniac on Aug 2, 2010 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thought??

Who really knows..last I heard from Booth/Haye they said no way they were fighting Audley as he was already being crucified for the mere suggestion. With Wlad repeatedly callin’ him out and sayin’ up front 50/50…whats the hold up, Davey?

by Iron Beach on Aug 2, 2010 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yup.

Haye to fight another undeserving fighter and then retire as ‘undefeated (at) heavyweight champion’. Although I still maintain that anyone watching the Haye Valuev fight with the sound off will score it for Valuev.

Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)

by Chaos100 on Aug 3, 2010 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

if Adamek KOs Grant I’d swap spots with him and Haye

It’s possible, though if it does happen I’ll have to search harder for a reason than beating Michael Grant, who I honestly think will crumble within four rounds or so. It’s been seven years since he fought anyone good, and even longer than that since he fought anyone as good as Adamek. I don’t see that fight looking a lot different than Adamek-Golota, except I won’t be waiting for the nutshot quite so much.

Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."

by Scott Christ on Aug 5, 2010 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting stuff SC.

Clearly a lot of effort went into all that.
I’m looking forward to Ward-Dirrell and also (amongst others) Booth-Molitor, not sure of Boothy’s chances, but it’d be great to see him pick up a big win so late in his career.

by Phill on Aug 2, 2010 5:21 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Lemouix vs Pirog would be a Pier 6 all time brawl. I like both guys, but top 10? I don’t know, maybe, but I’d like to see them fight a little more and against better competition. Hey….let these young guys earn their keep!

by FrankinDallas on Aug 2, 2010 9:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah I’d like to see some of the dreck cleared out first. Like Sebastian Sylvester. Someone get rid of him, then the games can begin.

by taco pal on Aug 2, 2010 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Middleweight really sucks at the moment

Half the guys who should be ranked being inactive (Winky Wright, David Lopez, etc.) or moving up (Khoren Gevor) or down (Anthony Mundine) really killed all the depth in the division.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Aug 2, 2010 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Was Mundine ever REALLY there?

If so, my opinion of Mundine is WAY off the mark.

Gevor was one I was sure was going to do damage at 160, after he crucified Sturm and then called out Pavlik. I think he could well have beaten Pavlik too, since for one thing he can move sideways, and that’s Kelly’s Kryptonite. (I’m helf-kidding, as I do like Pavlik a lot and I still rate him really highly too, but I do think Gevor would have given him similar problems to Martinez, if not on the same scale)

Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)

by Chaos100 on Aug 3, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

He wasn't really

But he was ranked in most middleweight top 10s before moving down, almost solely on the basis of his win over Geale. I mean once you get below Macklin right now, the weight class is REALLY weak.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Aug 3, 2010 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

And how can you call Winky Wright inactive?

In the last three years, he has fought the following:

1. Paul Williams
2. errr….
3.

Now, Tweek, boxing is a Man sport. There is nothing in the world more Man than boxing. It is Man at his most Man. So when you spar with Ned here, just dig deep into that most Man part of you. (Uncle Jimbo, South Park: Tweek vs Craig)

by Chaos100 on Aug 3, 2010 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Speaking of Pirog

Did anyone else find it odd how HBO went to interview Jacobs instead of Priog? Riding the momentum of the very good Mayweather piece, Kevin Iole absolutely rips HBO a new one for the blatant image repair they tried to do with Jacobs, pointing out that Lampley brings up the death in the family excuse almost immediately. Iole is quickly becoming one of my favorite writers with the newly found “I’m mad as hell and not going to take it anymore” attitude. Nice to see someone else besides us pointing out the hypocrisy of boxing.

by Waldo Rastel on Aug 4, 2010 2:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Seemed odd to me too

But my assumption is that they just didn’t have a Russian translator for the fight. They didn’t have one working Pirog’s corner.

Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."

by Brickhaus on Aug 4, 2010 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

According to Iole, the translator was excellent at the post-fight presser.

by Waldo Rastel on Aug 5, 2010 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wish Pirog had gotten to talk in addition to Jacobs during the broadcast, but I think in the long run Dmitry did his talking in the ring well enough that it won’t matter. HBO’s going to have him back on. Jacobs is clearly meant to be in the network’s long-term plans, so it didn’t surprise me that they went right into a bit of damage control.

Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."

by Scott Christ on Aug 5, 2010 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

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