Mandatory Eight Count: Berto doesn't want Aydin, Alexander wants more money
by Scott Christ on Aug 16, 2010 9:06 PM EDT
in Boxing News Analysis
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Andre Berto's Side Not Interested in Selcuk Aydin Fight (BoxingScene.com)
Lou DiBella says that HBO doesn't have any interest in Selcuk Aydin as an opponent for Andre Berto, so they're not going to pursue the fight that the WBC ordered. This might get Berto stripped of his belt. Rick Reeno reports that Berto's return may not come on October 2, but rather in November. Cornelius Bundrage has also turned down a fight with Berto, and the rumored fight with Ronald Hearns. Maybe he's still holding out for Pacquiao.
Pascal's victory warrants national attention (CBC)
Jean Pascal's win over Chad Dawson is a big, big deal.
Bradley-Alexander In Jeopardy Over Purse Split? (Fight Hype)
Manager-trainer Kevin Cunningham is making a bold case that Devon Alexander is the biggest American draw at 140 pounds. 10,000 fans or so were in St. Louis for Alexander's fight, and Bradley routinely fights in front of no more than 2,500 in California, so he has his point.
DeGale: I'm the best (Sky Sports)
James DeGale is one of the more confident (some might say arrogant) young fighters in the world, but he's showing the potential to back up his mouth. He also says again that George Groves is simply living off of his name.
Lorenzo: "I’ll crush Sturm in 6!" (fightnews.com)
Giovanni Lorenzo says that Felix Sturm has been protected for years and promises to "break him down and crush him."
For Don Chargin, boxing was only his second love (Los Angeles Times)
California boxing giant Don Chargin is profiled by Jerry Crowe.
Salita opponent named (fightnews.com)
After getting run over by Amir Khan last December, Dmitriy Salita is back to normal. He'll face Franklin Gonzalez (13-5, 9 KO) on September 1 in Queens.
Edgar Sosa, Juan Carlos Burgos, Daniel Estrada on Morales-Limond undercard
The Morales-Limond PPV may not capture your interest much, especially since there's Klitschko-Peter II that afternoon on American time and Yuriorkis Gamboa on Boxing After Dark that night, but the undercard is taking shape. Former junior flyweight titlist Edgar Sosa (39-6, 23 KO) will face European flyweight titleholder Andrea Sarritzu (31-4-4, 12 KO). Rising featherweight Juan Carlos Burgos (25-0, 18 KO) will take on Joan de Guia (7-10-4, 2 KO) in a pretty disgusting and pointless mismatch. For some reason, de Guia is called an "upset specialist" in the press release, even though he's never scored an upset and is 1-4-2 in his last seven fights, getting knocked out in every loss. Bottom line is that fight has no reason to happen. Also on the card will be Daniel Estrada (23-1-1, 19 KO), who was involved in what I feel is thus far the Fight of the Year for 2010 in February against Angel Alirio Rivero. Since then he's 1-0-1, and he'll take on Reyes Sanchez (19-3-1, 11 KO) in lightweight action. Sanchez has been in with a lot of solid fighters in his career.
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Wait, so HBO had interest in a Berto-Gomez fight at one time, but not a Berto-Aydin fight? Wasn’t HBO willing to broadcast Collazo-Aydin, I could most definitely be wrong but I am just asking. I hope Berto is not ducking Aydin cause I think he boxes circles around him, and HBO has been willing to broadcast crap like Berto-Forbes, but not this. Berto’s biggest mistake was pricing himself out of the Mosley fight, whether it was intentional or not is another story, but we need more fighters like Martinez, who was willing to do 60-40 with Mosley and whatever Mayweather wanted for a fight with him.
Speaking of pricing yourself out of fights, though Cunningham has a point, I wouldn’t be surprised if Devon is trying to find a way out. We’ve seen Bradley face adversity, but none like Devon faced against Kotelnik, and especially not in a fight that was he was suppose to win rather easily. If the fight happens in Vegas, I think a 50/50 deal is fair since none of them have had a big fight their.
"Dawson was NOT a hype job. Dude schooled Adamek, beat Tarver twice (neither competitive), beat Johnson twice (once close, once a wipeout) and even beat Harding when Harding was still good. That is not hype. Those are results. [b]I love how people see a guy lose once and all of a sudden nothing they ever did means anything. You are dead wrong.[/b]"
- Dan Rafael
"we've seen bradley face adversity, but none like devon faced..."
well bradley was dropped twice against holt, and alexander while clearly losing imo wasn’t dropped.
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on Aug 17, 2010 3:08 AM EDT up reply actions
forgot to add: “not saying your wrong or anything, but yeah”
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on Aug 17, 2010 3:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Flash knockdowns, yes, but Bradley won that fight decisively, while I don’t remember exactly, but I think I had Bradley only losing one other round aside from the ones in which he was dropped, which was pretty surprising as it was seen as an even fight going in. Other than the Witter fight, Bradley has not been in a fight that lately that “could’ve gone either way” as he has dominated every opponent he had and imo, Holt was a much better fighter at that time than Kotelnik.
"Dawson was NOT a hype job. Dude schooled Adamek, beat Tarver twice (neither competitive), beat Johnson twice (once close, once a wipeout) and even beat Harding when Harding was still good. That is not hype. Those are results. [b]I love how people see a guy lose once and all of a sudden nothing they ever did means anything. You are dead wrong.[/b]"
- Dan Rafael
I dont think Berto priced himself out of the Mosley fight.
Did you see Mosley’s last outing? It was horrible. Berto also seen that, and said to himself: why am I taking 40/60 for Mosley when Mosley needs me as much as I need him now. Now because Mosley was so stubborn about not doing 50/50 with Berto, he is now facing a guy that no one besides hardcore boxing fans know of in, Sergio Mora.
Mosley beating Mora does nothing, absolutey nothing for his legacy. If Mosley were to beat Berto then that would be a nice notch under his belt. There is no good that comes from fighting Mora. If Mosley wins, so what. He should’ve won. If he loses, he tarnishes his legacy forever. If I were Mosley I would rather lose to Berto than Mora. Atleast Berto is an up and coming star who is undefeated.
Its kind of late for Mosley to all of a sudden start worrying about money now.
If I were Berto I wouldn’t cave in to Mosley’s 60/40 demand. I’ll stick to 50/50.
Mosley wont be able to keep going around fighting guys like Sergio Mora if he wants to be taken serious as a credible boxer now. He will eventually have to fight Berto, the fight that he was already slated in for.
All Berto has to do is just sit back and wait. Mosley will eventually come calling and accept the 50/50.
Now because Mosley was so stubborn about not doing 50/50 with Berto, he is now facing a guy that no one besides hardcore boxing fans know of in, Sergio Mora.
Nobody besides hardcore boxing fans know Andre Berto, either.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Aug 17, 2010 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Mora arguably has more non-fan name recognition because of The Contender
But anyone with half a brain who follows boxing enough to know both guys would know that Mosley-Berto is an infinitely better fight.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Mosley-Mora is a crap fight and I’m certainly not arguing that part, and not arguing that he SHOULD be fighting Berto. But Andre Berto is in no position to haggle over 10 points of split for a Shane Mosley fight. Berto is lucky to be where he is right now, which is — and I hate to put it like this, because I like Berto as a fighter — an HBO creation. DiBella has been on easy street “promoting” Berto because HBO has bought his crummy fights with Miki Rodriguez and Michel Trabant and Steve Forbes. I’m not saying Berto the fighter is a creation, but Berto the star is. Mosley’s going to make more fighting Sergio Mora than Berto is to fight Andriy Kotelnik or whoever.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Aug 17, 2010 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
I dont think Mosley is in a position to haggle over 10% either. I mean, nobody is beating down Mosley’s door looking for a fight.
Andre Berto is in a much better position than Mosley. Berto really doesn’t need Mosley. Berto is 25-26 yrs old, he’ll get his fights eventually. Mosley is getting up there, his time is running out. He needs a big fight, and he needs one soon. Berto can afford to be in cruise controll and just let a big fight find him.
Berto can afford to be in cruise controll and just let a big fight find him.
Since when? What big fight is he going to find? The guy hasn’t fought anyone yet, and unless he fights a Shane Mosley, he’s not going to get any attention from the public whatsoever.
"The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic"
by Oli Goldstein on Aug 17, 2010 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
He needs a big fight, and he needs one soon
Right, having just sold 1.4 million PPVs against Floyd, and having made $7 million, Shane Mosley must be desperatefor a big fight. Naturally Andre Berto doesn’t need one, having just beaten, erm, Carlos Quintana.
"The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic"
by Oli Goldstein on Aug 17, 2010 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
When I said he needs a big fight and soon I wasn't talking about financial wise
I was talking about opponent wise. So atleast he can show people that he’s better than the guy that showed up to fight on May 1st that lost 11-1.
I mean, nobody is beating down Mosley’s door looking for a fight.
Berto should be.
Berto really doesn’t need Mosley.
I’d say he really does need Mosley, if only because there’s nothing else out there as big as Mosley. It would be by far the biggest fight of his career and a win would be by far the most attention-drawing of his career. Berto does not sell tickets and is in a position that really does suck for him. Unless he can fight Floyd Mayweather or Manny Pacquiao, which is probably not even a possibility on either side, he has no name opponents. 147 is barren. There’s Cotto, I guess, but Top Rank isn’t going to risk Cotto on Berto when there’s a chance they’re going to run money rematches with him next year against Pacquiao and/or Margarito. They’re talking Andriy Kotelnik for Berto’s next fight. HBO flat-out isn’t interested in Berto-Selcuk Aydin, even though Aydin is every bit the star (by which I mean he’s not a star) that the rest of 147 is. Who’s he going to fight? Clottey? Where the hell are they going to sell tickets for Berto-Clottey?
Berto needs a next step fight but there isn’t one except for Shane Mosley. A good win over Mosley could put Andre into position to call out Mayweather. “Hey Floyd, I’m undefeated too, I’m the next pound-for-pound king,” and so on. No big fights have found Andre Berto yet, and there isn’t one out there that’s going to find him any time soon. People aren’t going to suddenly materialize as big fight options for Andre Berto. Even though he might not be quite ready for a Mayweather, he might have to start pushing in that direction. The way the division is right now, Andre Berto has three options, as far as I can see:
1. Bang down Mosley’s door for a fight
2. Take a leap and try to fight Mayweather
3. Continue to fight second-tier opponents who have little name value and remain where he is, which is a non-star with nothing really moving him forward besides the HBO marketing push
I am not saying the third option is his fault. It’s not. He’s in a bad position where he’s been pushed hard by HBO and now people are like, “Well, could you fight someone better than Carlos Quintana and Juan Urango, maybe?” But there’s really nobody out there. I’d love to see him fight Kell Brook, actually, but nobody in America knows who Kell Brook is. Fighting guys coming up from 140 is just going to lead to backlash, too. It’s awful timing for trying to build a star career, as Mosley is absolutely on his last legs, but happens to stand as Berto’s best option at the same time. He’s not going to get either of the two big dogs and then there’s absolutely nothing else besides Mosley.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Aug 17, 2010 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
You said everything I wanted to say (and more), but couldn't be bothered to type. Thank you!
"The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic"
by Oli Goldstein on Aug 17, 2010 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Berto should be pushing for a fight with Mosley too
However, I believe that if Berto sticks to 50/50 purse split he still may get the fight. As long as Mosley keeps turning down P Williams and Martinez, Berto is still an option. Mosley will never get a fight with Manny, not after the one-sided defeat to Mayweather. I can hear Mayweather and company now: he’s continuing to fight my leftovers, guys I beat already. I think that after Mosley beats Mora,(which he should) the public will bring Berto’s name back up and throw it in Mosley’s face. Mosley will probaly still have the option of P. Will, Martinez and Berto. And I dont believe that Mosley wants a part of the first two mentioned so again he’s left with Berto. ……Thats why I think Berto should just sit back and Mosley will eventually make his way back to him.
However, I believe that if Berto sticks to 50/50 purse split he still may get the fight. … Thats why I think Berto should just sit back and Mosley will eventually make his way back to him.
OK, I see what you’re saying, and I don’t even disagree. I think Andre would have been smart to take a 60-40 split right now, but it really is possible that if Mosley beats Mora, he’s just sort of without a fight still. He’s not going to get a rematch with Floyd, which I think might still be a faint hope in the back of his mind, and I think he’d be totally insane to fight Williams or Martinez, even if it’s done at 154. He’s never been particularly good at 154 anyway.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Aug 17, 2010 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Shane Mosley’s not a big draw, but come on. Andre Berto’s about a big a draw as Chad Dawson. 50-50 is not happening for this fight, and nor should it.
"The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic"
by Oli Goldstein on Aug 17, 2010 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
So are you saying that if Berto sticks to 50/50 that Shane Mosley should just let this fight slip pass him and never fight Berto because of the 10% share.
I mean, what Im saying is that Mosley is on his last leg. He needs a fight that will try to erase the Mayweather fight out of people’s memories before he retires. And no, it can’t be his fight against Mora. I dont care how good he looks. He needs a defining fight to go out on. Berto’s that guy. If Bero sticks to 50/50, is Mosley just not going to fight him at all?
Well who else is out there? Let me see, P.Williams. Mosley turned that down. Sergio Martinez, Mosley also turned that down. I heard the redicolous notion that Mosley wants to fight Pacquaio at 160. I dont know how true it is, but its something I heard floating around……….. I didn’t know Mosley was a part-time comedian in his spare time.
What Im saying is that Mosley’s options are very limited. Every fight from this point on in Mosley’s career should be about legacy, no more journeymen and stay busy fights.
Just like Mayweather and Pacquaio are doing right now, every fight that they are taking right now is about legacy, no cupcake fights. Even if they’re fight doesn’t get made this time around, I guarantee after Pacquaio’s fight with Margarito he will fight another very tough guy that will add on to his legacy.
And Mayweather will do the same in fighting a guy that will improve his legacy. There will be no one calling out Sergio Mora. Sergio Martinez maybe, but no Mora. And thats the mind frame that Mosley should be in now this late in his career.
I don't understand why you're hell-bent on the notion that Shane Mosley needs to keep fighting?
As far as I’m concerned, he doesn’t need anyone at this point. The guy’s a sure-fire bet for the HOF, had an outstanding career, was a P4P #1 and at the top of most lists for a decade, and, in what should have been his final fight, fought – and nearly stopped – the best fighter of the generation. Shane Mosley does not need Andre Berto. Period.
Andre Berto, on the other hand, can’t draw for shit. He has one good win on his record, and even then, that’s disputed. He’s talented, but he’s not exactly big shit. A win against Shane Mosley does so much more for his career than a win against Andre Berto does for Shane. That’s why this fight has to be 60-40 Mosley, in addition to the fact that no one beyond the hardcore fan is particularly interested in seeing Berto fight.
"The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic"
by Oli Goldstein on Aug 17, 2010 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn't say Mosley "needs" to keep fighting, but if he is
He needs to be fighting credible opponents. I said that a win against Mora will do nothing for his career, and thats the truth. He’s just basically wasting his time with this fight when he could be fighting P. Williams, Sergio “Martinez” , or atleast keep trying to make the fight with Berto. But we know that he turned down a fight with P Will, and he turned down Martinez and it looks like he’s going to let Berto get away also.
And as far as Berto not being a draw, since when has Mosley been a draw?
And as far as Berto not being a draw, since when has Mosley been a draw?
Mosley is a bigger draw than Berto. It’s sort of like saying I’d rather eat a booger than a turd, but he’s a bigger draw than Berto. Your argument here seems to center around Mosley not having many options. Neither does Andre Berto. That fight is perfect for both of them. Instead, you’ve got an old dude on his last legs wasting his time with Mora (on this we completely, totally agree) and Berto likely fighting Andriy Kotelnik, which is just going to cause the few people who do pay attention to his career and aren’t fanboys/fangirls to question why he’s fighting another 140-pounder. Nobody thinks Mosley-Mora is a good fight, but neither is anything Berto’s going to make next, because there’s really nothing good to make. It’ll be another fight in his holding pattern, after which he’ll continue to want more money because HBO created a monster by overpaying for weak fights. He’s exactly where he was after he fought Collazo, and Kotelnik isn’t going to up his profile.
But I think really at the end of this we agree. Mosley-Mora is a crap fight (with due respect to Mora not being a bum or anything), and we’d both much rather have seen Berto-Mosley, because it’s what made sense.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Aug 17, 2010 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I noticed Berto was in Montreal this weekend to support his fellow Haitian emigre.
http://tweetphoto.com/39062185
http://tweetphoto.com/39114424
http://tweetphoto.com/39114631
There’s a substantial Haitian community in Quebec. Berto ought to fight a couple of fights in Montreal and see if he can gain a following there. Screw HBO – they’ll pay you now but relying on their money will eventually drive your career into the ground. Better to be a gate attraction somewhere, and Montreal is just such a good fight city right now that he has a much better chance of attracting people there than anywhere in Florida. He wouldn’t be the first non-Canadian to accomplish that feat – he certainly has more of a reason to hope for that than Andrade ever did, since he at least has the Haitian connection.
There's a HUGE Hatian population in the Miami area
They just don’t have much disposable income. But probably 200k+ around there.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Yeah I know, but it just isn’t that good of a fight town. Or any kind of sports town for that matter. The ethnic component alone helps, but is neither necessary nor sufficient.
Plus, the way the city is built
It’s just hard to put anything near the population center, since the urban area is just so long. Miami and Tampa aren’t bad sports towns, they just don’t draw well because the infrastructure isn’t designed for having lots of people in the same place at the same time.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I'll go defend TB
When the hockey team was good they had one of the top attendance figures in the league (top 3 i think). The Bucs usually have decent attendance figures as well, but the town is just not a baseball town.
by Waldo Rastel on Aug 17, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
James Degale is a talent for sure but his mouth has really turned me off . James gets all the publicity because of the Gold medal ( and the mouth of course) but Groves is good , real good and I think he’ll beat Degale if/when they meet .
Degale and Groves should happen next year – that is one I won’t miss for the world, it should be a stormer .
by Sir Jack Daniels on Aug 17, 2010 5:00 PM EDT reply actions
I think DeGale beats him, to be honest. At first, I was convinced that Groves was better, but I reckon DeGale is too slick and too smart to get into a fight with Groves. It’s a bloody good fight, provided they both keep winning, and should end up an enormous domestic dust-up. Whether it happens next year, I’m not so sure, because I imagine Frank Warren would want them to be fighting for a world title.
"The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic"
by Oli Goldstein on Aug 17, 2010 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
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