Devon Alexander escapes with questionable hometown win; Cloud beats Johnson
Devon Alexander kept his two junior welterweight titles and his undefeated record in his hometown of St. Louis, beating Andriy Kotelnik in the main event on scores of 116-112 from all three judges. But the decision is going to meet some criticism. Bad Left Hook scored it 117-111 for Kotelnik, and everyone scoring along in our live thread had a similar score, all scores for Kotelnik.
It was a fight that was interesting, to say the least. Kotelnik (31-4-1, 13 KO), from my view, was landing consistently harder, cleaner, better shots, timing Alexander all night. HBO's Harold Lederman put in one of his all-time worst performances tonight, scoring it 117-111 for Alexander. It's not even the score that bothers me as much as Lederman's analysis, which centered on Alexander throwing more. Alexander had a horrible time landing clean on Kotelnik the entire fight, but was busier for sure. Much of that energy wound up being completely wasted, realistically, as Alexander wound up huffing and puffing some in the latter stages of the fight. Though that early energy probably did actually end up winning him the fight, in practice it just tired him out and did no damage to Kotelnik.
Alexander (21-0, 13 KO) met the sort of challenge tonight that basically all young fighters meet, no matter how good they are. Kotelnik and his team had an excellent gameplan, and Alexander and his team just didn't. I think that was a big difference in the fight. Alexander's physical skills were on display, but I didn't think he was genuinely effective in this fight. I am not going to be someone that counts out Alexander's potential career because of this. Styles make fights. We saw Amir Khan dominate Kotelnik, now we've seen Kotelnik give Alexander all he can handle and then some. And yet I still think Alexander -- while probably not the favorite he may have been before -- is a tougher test for Khan than was Kotelnik, and if Khan and Kotelnik fought again, it would look like it did the first itme.
As for Kotelnik, it was arguably the best performance of his professional career. He was really good tonight, preying on Alexander's overaggressive nature and picking him apart with counters, with a sturdy jab, and negating him with a good defense. Even the shots Alexander did land were rarely very effective.
But we'll move on, because that's all that's going to happen. Alexander continued to say he wants to fight Tim Bradley next, and I'm betting Bradley is now salivating over that prospect on January 29. Hopefully Kotelnik can find a good fight, too. I wouldn't mind seeing a rematch with Marcos Maidana.
In a grueling co-feature, Tavoris Cloud retained his light heavyweight title belt by winning a competitive fight over veteran Glen Johnson on scores of 116-112 across the board. Bad Left Hook scored it 115-113 for Cloud (21-0, 18 KO). Johnson (50-14-2, 32 KO) seemed to tire late in the fight, and was hurt at a couple of points. But both fighters did some very good work throughout the bout. Johnson, 41, felt he had won the fight, as he usually does, and having been jobbed so many times has led Johnson to being a bit peculiar with some things like that. After almost every round, he will motion to the crowd or celebrate, seemingly in hopes of convincing someone that he won the round, no matter what happened.
But it was a good fight. It wasn't the great fight many of us felt it could have been, but both fighters left the rings with their heads held high. They did a bit of what felt like some scripted back-and-forth afterward, and I wouldn't rule out a rematch. The money options in the U.S. are shallow for Cloud, and if his team is smart, they won't put him in with Chad Dawson next (should Dawson beat Jean Pascal next week). Cloud has some kinks to iron out still, but he's definitely a fighter, and one of the better fighters out there at 175 for sure. He cemented that tonight.
Off television, Cory Spinks was beaten up and knocked out in the fifth round by Cornelius Bundrage, losing his 154-pound trinket in his hometown. From the descriptions of the fight I've read, and from seeing Spinks' last two fights, my feeling is that Spinks' legs are gone at 32. He was such a footwork and reflexes-heavy fighter in the past that it was always really just a matter of when his legs left him, because without much power and with something less than a great chin, Spinks doesn't have much to fall back on. This fight less makes Bundrage a truly top-tier guy at 154 than it does take Spinks out of the discussion. He's had a fine career, but it might be coming to an early end.
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I appreciate your understatement, I really do. I think it’s important for a journalist (and interweb or no, that’s what this shit is) to show some restraint.
But that decision was nothing less than filthy.
"Yes Gina, I am a Wise Cracker"
I’m going to watch it again before I get too bold, but right now I will say there is no doubt in my mind that Andriy Kotelnik won that fight. Not a single doubt.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Aug 8, 2010 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Thought I was going crazy
I just finished watching most of the fight on DVD. Stupid comcast cut off the last two rounds. I felt just like you guys did. I kept hearing Harold and thinking maybe I was watching this fight wrong. It was kind of funny hearing max and the other guy who’s name I forget saying in a real nice and vague way that they didn’t really agree with Harold. Very unimpressive night for Alexendar. I expected more. Cloud – Johnson was pretty solid. Johnson is one tough s.ob.
by erod on Aug 8, 2010 12:42 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
My thoughts to a tee
I also felt like I was going crazy watching it on my DVR last night and listening to the logic behind Harold’s scorecard as the match progressed on. Alexander was definitely more active, but he started catching a lot of glove, while Kotelnik was catching him clean. Glad to see I wasn’t alone on my thinking.
Vlade Divac, the 24 year old [Redacted] center who reported to training camp at 250, 15 pounds more than last season's weight: "We all get heavier as we get older because there's a lot more information in our heads. Our heads weigh more."
Let’s facelift bar!--netetrader20
day light robbery..
boxing is dieing guys, that fight was not even close…kotelnik won that by a margin, he consistently landed more punches while devon was just throwing in air…I dont even think HBO understands boxing.. technical analysis was gross..they didnt even let kotelnik speak…what a way to treat a real champion..duh!!!
I’m glad i watched UFC (no coverage of the boxing in UK).
It was a great show,especially the main event.
Yeah, they’re talking about a miracle moment and we’re hemming and hawing about the 15 millionth guy to get shafted in someone else’s hometown. I can defend boxing all day long and do a good job of it, but the differences in the way the sports are perceived are both legitimate and are as opposite as night and day.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
As an aside, not that I think Johnson was robbed tonight (again, I scored it 115-113 Cloud) but I think next Gentleman Glen should fight Gabriel Campillo, just because I want to see how judges score that one.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
People have been saying boxing is dying since at least the late nineteenth century.
I hardly think one more night of home cookin’ will finally kill the sport off.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
No reasonable person can or should say Alexander won this fight. I think there were two rounds I actually much debated that I gave to Kotelnik, and one that I debated that I gave to Alexander, so even if I’d scored it the other way in the rounds that I thought were debatable, it would be 116-112 Kotelnik, so a massive one point difference, and the “other way” of how it was actually scored by the official judges, whose scores counted and gave Alexander a win on the basis of … workrate, I guess, but hopefully not that Lederman-touted great jab of Alexander (64/647, 10%).
The scores we had in our thread were: 117-111, 117-111, 116-112, 118-110 for Kotelnik. He was the better fighter, clearly IMO, and I’ll stand by my score.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
But Harold was saying all along why DA would win and he was right. I can make a greta case for the juding. Heck , when Harold and
all three judges scaor it just about the same, that makes us smarter than them and when it comes to judging, I’m not sure we can assume that role.
Pray for Nick Charles
I don’t know if I agree with you. For sure, I respect Harold Lederman a heck of a lot, and he’s seen and scored a lot more fights than many many people, but it doesn’t mean he has to necessarily be right every time.
"The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic"
by Oli Goldstein on Aug 8, 2010 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
But he was saying it up front before it happened. And then it happened just like he said it would.
Pray for Nick Charles
Who Really Won?
Was closer than those convinced Kotelnik won, I think. I’m rewatching it to see what I think this time. Dan Rafael, not a nut and no one’s total fan, is quite sure Alexander won it, and he was there. I think some of DA’s counterpunching was better than apparent on tv, and they would be able to hear the punches connecting better at ringside
Just re-watched it--
I’m still not having a problem with Alexander winning. I wonder—it seems to me that Kellerman was—maybe baiting Lederman with his whole take?
During Rd.10, Lederman defends his scorecard to Kellerman, who keeps attacking both it, and DA’s performance. Lederman describes why, according to the time-honored measures of ring generalship, defense, aggression, & clean punches, DA was winning. Kellerman then agrees that according to the presccribed standards, DA is winning. But Kellerman then argues that that everyone knows it makes more sense, essentially, to use the Kellerman standard, which uses among other things, the ‘who would you rather be?’ and the “who looks the most beat up?” approach. Still, Kellerman concedes in Rd 10 that if you insist on using the official, but apparently, to Kellerman, inefficient, time-honored measures, Alexander is winning. So I just wonder how much of this is personalities. But it was close, and had Kotelnik won, I’d wonder why a little, but not a lot.
I don’t understand what you’re saying, to be honest. Harold can have a bad night, it is both possible and plausible. Last night would appear to have been one of those.
"The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic"
by Oli Goldstein on Aug 8, 2010 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I thought Kotelnik dominated in every category
but workrate. So if you only look at work rate, I could agree with you.
But in terms of
1) number of punches landed
2) quality of punches landed
3) ring generalship
4) aggression
5) the “busted up” factor (not supposed to consider this, I know, but still)
Kotelnik wins.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
I feel like Hurrold often scores fights the way he THINKS the judges will score it
rather than the way he sees it. I could be wrong though.
But considering just how frequently all three judges see a fight one way and a majority of people watching it see it another, maybe, just maybe, there are a lot of bad professional judges out there. It’s an old boy’s club, there’s no accountability, and between low pay and high inflexibility of hours, it’s not necessarily a job that would attract the people most qualified to perform it.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Actually
The more I think about it, the more I think that judges frequently just judge to expectations. People don’t remember a bad card when all the cards are the same bad card. It doesn’t stick out. Once I form the thought better, I may write a piece on it.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Kotelnik
won this fight although I didn’t score it live, I rarely do, I’ll watch it in the morning with the sound off and keep score then. In any case Lederman I hope does the same and then confesses he was wrong, saw Raphaels tweets, he had it 115-113 for Devon from ringside…he also said when Floyd was introduced the crowd started chanting Pacquiao, Pacquiao, Pacquiao, then when he was flashed on the screen the crowd booed. He was asked to comment by HBO, but refused to say anything.
i very much enjoyed both fights, and i thoguht kotelnik easily won the fight. My friends and i thought kotelnik had won the last seven rounds, and probably 2 of the early rounds. it wasn’t even close in my eyes, and seeing kotelnik pumped up at the end of the fight knowing that he was going to get screwed was heart wrenching. i’m not a sap for that kind of thing, but he fucking deserved the win
Texans 19-0 in 2010-2011 season PERIOD
by battle axe of doom on Aug 8, 2010 3:35 AM EDT reply actions
Yeah, they were both good fights. That is inevitably going to be lost in the post-fight discussion, but it’s good to point it out, too.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
Good Article
I Agree With You Alexaner Lost. It’s Like when Mayweather Fought Castillo the First Fight, Lederman Had it 115 to 111 Castillo the Judges Had it the Other Way. Lamply Said thats Not the Fight We Saw.
Harold Lederman
I agree with everyone and thought that kotelnik won the fight, 114-113. On a totally different subject, what is hbo going to do when Harold Lederman retires? Rightly or wrongly, he affects every fight we watch on the network, and it will be eerie without him. After his job last night, im starting to think that that time might be closer than anyone thinks.
Ugh, don’t hire me. I’d hate to travel that much. But I have wondered who will replace Harold, too. I honestly have no idea, and frankly will miss him. OK JIM!
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
Maybe they'll hire Julie
But seriously, I’m sure they can get any judge they want. HBO has to pay more than the states do.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
You can get any qualified judge, but I think Harold is a great, charismatic guy who in a lot of fights is the one who, during his brief times getting to speak, will be the most honest. His blurting out of “What a goddamn fight this is!” after two rounds of Cloud-Johnson was great, and when a fight sucks, he will really rip into it, while remaining sensible. Lots of guys can replace his scoring, but he’ll be tough to replace as a personality.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Aug 10, 2010 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Just watched the fight
I never want to hear shit about European home cooking again.
Absolute shocking decision!
"Chris Eubank lost his recent comeback fight on points ... the main one being that he's a total git."
I was very disappointed in the Cloud/Johnson fight.
And I blame Cloud for that. When a fighter is forty-one years old and has a chance later in a fight (9th) to throw about 100 pitty-pat shot to both give himself a chance to regroup and at the same time to control the round, it’s up to the younger fighter to say,“Don’t think so.”
Max Kellerman should have his tongue cut out and mounted on a ring post as a warning to andy and all for daring to even think of comparing the action in the Cloud/Johnson fight to the wars that Saad Muhamad and Marvin Johnson engaged in. Utterly ridiculous pronouncement. An often boring fight that I scored a draw when the older man took the 12th.
I’ve seen worse decisions than the Alexander fight, and I’ve seen better fights.
Much better fights.

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