Mandatory Eight Count: Pacquiao-Margarito Edition, Vol. 1
by Scott Christ on Sep 4, 2010 10:34 AM EDT
in Boxing News Analysis
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PrintBoy, a lot of people have a lot of things to say about this fight.
Pacquiao-Margarito bout an insult to boxing fans (New York Post)
George Willis' take on the fight gets off to quite a start: "Never have I been sprayed by a skunk. But it must be similar to being soiled by the upcoming fight between Manny Pacquiao and Antonio Margarito. It will take a long time before the stench of this bout goes away."
Antonio Margarito's Texas approval for fight with Manny Pacquiao disappoints (ESPN Dallas)
Calvin Watkins talks about the Texas process of licensing Margarito: "In less than a week, William Kuntz, the executive director of the Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation, which oversees boxing and mixed martial arts in the state, gave the license to Margarito. ... The first time Kuntz had spoken to Margarito was on Friday at Cowboys Stadium when the fighters came here to complete this three city tour. What a joke."
Texas official explains Antonio Margarito licensing (ESPN)
Dan Rafael's blog from Thursday morning goes even deeper into William Kuntz's decision to license Antonio Margarito: "Margarito did and it became nothing more in Texas than a virtual rubber stamp, which Kuntz applied days later. I have no idea if there were outside pressures on Kuntz to give Margarito the license, but I do know that people like Top Rank promoter Bob Arum and Cowboys owner Jerry Jones wield a lot of influence. I also know that, love the fight or despise the fight, it's going to generate tens of millions of dollars in business."
60,000 Pacquiao-Margarito fans can't be wrong? (CBC)
Chris Iorfida on the fight: "Margarito will be forever besmirched by that night in Los Angeles but if he loses in Dallas it won't be poetic justice, and if he wins it won't be a disgrace to boxing. It will be a fair and square fight between two aggressive punchers."
Pacquiao giving foe shot at redemption (Philippine Daily Inquirer)
"Give him one more chance," Pacquiao said. "He is human, he made a mistake. People are worried about me fighting this guy. We are going to give him a chance."
Roach: Margarito is More Hittable Than De La Hoya (BoxingScene.com)
Freddie Roach: "[W]hen Manny can hit somebody, I usually don't worry that much about it."
Pacquiao, Margarito promise great fight (The Manila Times)
Antonio Margarito: "It is time for me to show all of the people that I am back and I am good. It's going to be an exciting fight."
Margarito will be local favorite against Manny Pacquiao (Fort Worth Star-Telegram)
"A boisterous crowd of Antonio Margarito supporters routinely halted Friday's news conference at the stadium with chants of 'Mexico, Mexico' or 'Si se puede.' Translation: 'Yes we can.'"
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With your permission SC
Here’s a good starting point laying out some great counter points:
http://thecruelestsport.com/2010/08/29/against-the-grain-on-the-pacquiao-margarito-fight/
Yeah I linked to that one sometime in the last week in one of the MECs. I thought it was well-reasoned and logical, though it didn’t change my mind on Margarito’s credibility, though likely nothing will. But I am just one fella. Everyone’s entitled to think as they please on the matter.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Sep 4, 2010 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Mandatory Eight Count
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
This is this shit that should really get boxing fans upset
Margarito gets his license in Mexico, barely makes ESPN headlines.
Mayweather goes off and says some dumb shit, it’s the top story.
It’s not right
Option, I know that you’re a big Mayweather fan and all, but I think you’re being downright silly here. Margarito’s story has been a recurring headline throughout the press for the past 20 months, and his career will forever be tainted. The amount that’s been written about his case is astonishing. Floyd’s hit the headlines in a big way, and deserves all the bad press he gets for what you class as ‘dumb shit’, and what most would describe as ‘purile trash’. Yet at the end of the day, Margarito’s story will be around forever; Floyd’s comments will soon be forgotten.
Don’t be so narrow-minded, and accept that Floyd deserves the current level of abuse that he’s getting. He is not a victim in this, whatsoever. Don’t kid yourself.
"The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic"
by Oli Goldstein on Sep 4, 2010 12:24 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah I agree, OliGold
I like Floyd also. I’ve followed his career from the begining. So I know who Floyd really is. He’s not the guy that we’ve been seeing since the buildup of the Dela Hoya fight. I guess hes seen that he made the most money and had the highest PPV totals with Dela Hoya from trash talking him and being arrogant so he decided to stick with it. I knew something was wrong when he decided to stop calling himself “Pretty Boy Floyd Mayweather” to " Money Mayweather". But no doubt he needs to be called out for his comments about Pacquaio. Like I said in another thread, Mayweather has been called all types of derogatory names by Pacquaio fans, and Im not talking about chicken, scary, ducker or any boxing related names either. Im talking about names that were being thrown around in the south back in the 60’s. But hey, Mayweathers a popular figure, hes a millionaire he should know that comes with the terroritory. It shouldn’t, but it does. He needs to know that he is held to a higher standard then some over-zealous fans.
And I also find Mayweather’s comments to be more of a stereotype than racist. Racist is not liking someone who is of a certain ethnic background just because of what their race is. Or discriminating against someone because of their race. I dont believe Mayweather did that. He didnt come out and say ,:I do not like Pacquaio because of he is Phillipine, or :I do not like Phillpinos. Mayweather’s comments were more of a stereotype in my opinion. Saying that because Pacquaio is of Asian descent that he eats sushi and cooks dogs and cats. I’ve heard of Asians doing that, but maybe Pacquaio doesn’t like sushi or cooks cats and dogs. So what Mayweather did was stereotype him. Thats why I say his comments were more stereotype than racial. It likes if you’re with you’re Mexican friend and you guys get hungry and you look over to him and ask him if he wants tacos or burritos. You’ve just stereotyped him. Or if you’re with you’re black friend and ask him if he wants fried chicken, or your Asian friend and ask him if he wants fried rice and egg rolls. Those are all stereotypes. However Mayweather needs to apologize to Pacquaio and all Phillipinos for making his stereotype comments about them.
All good and fair points Floorer
We just have to call them as we see them…..no matter how much we like what they do professionally.
I didnt even know he apologized already
I just logged on and went to the first topic and commented. I just scrolled down and seen the Mayweather apology blog a few mintues ago that why I put he needs to apologize to Pacquaio and all Phillipinos.
Dogs
When Pacquiao was young, his father killed his dog to eat it because they were all starving. It’s that to which May is understood to be referring. That’s what makes it an especially creepy insult—is that because of a level of poverty that Money May can’t even imagine no matter how poor he thinks he was in the US, Pac’s family was actually driven to it.
Stereotypes, when negative, as the ones used by Mayweather are, are racist. And explain, if you can, what’s not flat-out racist about “yellow chump.”
by BoxAnne on Sep 4, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Rec'd
BoxAnne.
Well said and i had forgot about that with Pac’s dad and how it illustrates just how poor they were………….and what a total moron Mayweather is.
Stereotyping is racism
You think that talking about Mayweather preferring to lazily hang around the house eating fried chicken and watermelon wouldn’t be racist? What about wondering if he plans to train by running around the jungle hunting monkeys with a spear and eating their brains?
You bring up examples about offering an ethnic friend some ethnic food. Totally different. One big difference is that you’re talking to a friend. (And wouldn’t you usually have some idea of what your friends like to eat?)
I wouldn’t be shocked if you’re a Dr. Laura kind of person who says racist things without realizing you are being racist.
by LooseCannon on Sep 4, 2010 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You’re one hundred percent right – stereotyping is definitely racism. The line is a very thin one, and Floyd stepped way past the boundaries.
"The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic"
by Oli Goldstein on Sep 5, 2010 6:55 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree, these are racial stereotypes. Not all stereotypes are racial, but Mayweather’s were. They were racial and homophobic too. When you make a sweeping assumption based on someone’s race, you’re racially stereotyping.
I know people often want to think that “x or y is not racist”, “That’s not what he meant”, but like I said in another thread, there are varying degrees of racism. He doesn’t need to be putting burned crosses on Manny’s lawn to be involved in a racist tirade. This was, flat out, racist.
Officially boycotting Pacquiao vs. Margarito.
Stereotypes
Not all stereotypes are racial,
No, some are instead sexist or ageist, and even “blondeist” and “baldist,” but they are rarely flattering, and never a safe bet imo.
To sum it all up
Floyd deserves a lil bit of flack for his outburst but Margarito deserves to be shitted on everywhere he goes, especially on TV
Floyd deserves way more than ‘a lil bit of flack’. Imagine if Manny had called Floyd a ‘n****r’ – then tell me whether he’d deserve only ’ a lil bit of flack’. I think you’ve got to seriously re-evaluate what you’re saying, because it is not cool.
"The terror of the unforeseen is what the science of history hides, turning a disaster into an epic"
by Oli Goldstein on Sep 6, 2010 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
You should be gratified to know that it's Manny who is getting most of the attention
Google Floyd. You’ll see about 1.5 million hits.
Then Google Manny. He now draws about 11 million hits.
While Floyd dithers….Manny’s global presence and brand continues to flourish. And the gap grows wider…..and wider.
Thats true
However just remember that Asia is the worlds largest and most populous continent in the world. 3.9 billion people live in Asia. Yao Ming leads the NBA in votes to the All Star game every year by a land slide. Is Yao Ming the best player in the NBA? Of course not. Im not trying to have a debate on whos better than who, Im just showing you that its a lot more that goes into being very popular and having a large fan base.
It's Floyd who should remember when he's negotiating
Because worldwide he is minuscule compared to Manny.
Surely it’s not too suspicious of me to suggest that there could have been some back room dealings going on here when the billionaire guy who is hosting the fight at his new multi million dollar stadium is a major,influencial figure in his home state and the fight gets sanctioned in no time in Texas.
Everyone involved with this fight should be ashamed of themselves and there is no way in the world that i would pay $50 to watch this.
Pacquiao should have turned it down and asked for a more credible opponent instead of giving Margarito this ludicrous payday and a return to the limelight.
I’m sick of them all and,at the moment quite sick of boxing in general and having my intelligence insulted by these frauds and conmen.
Texas rarely needs nudging, but no, it certainly didn’t hurt that the fight was going to bring a lot of money into the state.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
More or less on that count. Reports are Manny was presented with two options: rematch Cotto or fight Margarito. Manny picked Margarito. I would hazard a guess that he, Koncz and Roach got together and figured a Cotto rematch wasn’t really marketable, too.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
Thats a smart business decision
Pacquaio would’ve caught a lot of flack for fighting Cotto again, because it would’ve looked like he was just trying to get that eight title the easy way. The Margarito fight I think (from a boxing view point )is a good fight. Now morally and ethics wise it’s not good, but I dont watch boxing for morals and ethics. I watch it to see good boxing matches. And thats what this fight is.
I think separating ethics and politics from sport is precisely what’s leading all these con men (promoters) to keep the state of boxing as it currently is. Do you think if Bob Arum knew that people would boycott this fight that he would do it? No! But because he knows people do precisely that, separate ethics and politics from boxing, they will buy it and will give Margarito and Arum so many of undeserved millions of dollars.
Officially boycotting Pacquiao vs. Margarito.
Good Point
Think politicians—if they’re caught in the appearance of immorality even in private matters of sexuality, they’re cooked. So some say, well, but they’re our leaders, and so expected to set a good example. Fine. But surely it’s obvious that popular sports figures bear the burden of “herohood” and are as such leaders too, with the same expectation of a setting a good example. And I’ve noticed, tho I don’t follow golf, that his peccadilloes and subsequent loss of his family as he knew it haven’t done Tiger or his game any good.
My Distinction Was Unclear
In my lexicon, a leader, especially political, is a wannabe hero, one whose setting of an example is a requirement for attaining hero-hood. A hero is a proven entity—someone like Sully the pilot or so. Sports heros are proven entities in contexts that involve sportsmanship and fair play, and there’s an expectation that their off-field standards should match their on-field standards.
Mosley KOing Margarito kind of takes the gloss off this fight as a legit high level boxing match anyway,imo.
I’m pretty sure he is not the Tony of old and,as has been said by others,who knows how many other fights he was loaded up for.
At the end of the day who Pacquiao wants to fight is down to him and if he really wanted to fight someone more respectable like Tim Bradley (imo) he could have and would have still made a good payday as the split would have likely been 70-30 or thereabouts and if he could draw 50,000 to watch him against Clottey,i’m sure he could do at least that fighting an American.
Yes,i realise he will probably draw more for the Marg fight in Texas with the Mexican contingent but for him to come out and say “Margarto knew” about the dodgy wraps and then to go fight him just tells you all they are bothered about is money.
If you want to buy the fight fair enough but i’d rather keep my money and watch something else.
Both
Cotto 2 and Margarito are joke fights,imo,the former because of the pasting he gave Cotto in the first fight and the latter,well,i’ve already said what i think of that.
At the end of the day Bob just wanted to keep it in house.
Yeah I agree about the joke fight remark for different reasons though
Cotto just doesn’t deserve another shot, period. Margarito doesn’t deserve one because of what he did, but I think boxing fans who want to see a more competitve fight will take Margarito over Cotto anyday for a fight with Pacquaio now. And as far Margarito, Im not real big on Margarito either however I think he should be allowed a second chance to fight.
Look at Michael Vick. Look what he did. He got caught, served his punishment took a lot of deserved flack when trying to comeback , but eventually he got his second chance and has since moved on. Should they have just told him, you had your shot and you blew it. Theres been convicted murderers who got a second chance, so yes I think Margarito should be given his……He could’ve made things a lot easier if he would’ve came out and told the truth instead of constantly lying about it.
And we know Arum wants to keep things in house.
And Bradley isn’t there yet, skill wise or money wise.
Pacquaio would beat Bradley. Bradley hasn’t fought at that level yet.
Mayweather isn’t fighting til next year.
Cotto had his shot.
Margarito was the only other credible opponent out there. And please dont say he should’ve fought Berto.
No i won’t say that,just like i didn’t even mention Cotto in the first place so i don’t know why you keep bringing his name into it.
Bradley would give Pac a good fight,better than Marg will,imo.
Michael Vick,didn’t he get done for dog fighting?Hardly comparable to loaded gloves which could kill a fighter.
And i think the reason Cotto doesn’t deserve a shot is only because of the first fight.
He has gone on to take a belt in the next division up so i hardly think it is as if he has disappeared.
But Matt, what other reason could there be
Cotto either deserves a rematch……or he doesn’t.
He did lose badly after all.
I’m referring to The Floorer comment that he “doesn’t deserve a shot,period”.
To me that is saying Cotto has doen nothing since.He has won a belt at 154 since.
I said originally Cotto obviously does not deserve a shot and i certainly don’t want to see it,but he has actually done OK since.
Maybe you misunderstood my point.
Believe me i don’t want to see Cotto fight Manny again.
Cotto looked good against an overrated fighter, Yuri Foreman.
No disrespect to Yuri, but he wasn’t half good as his undefeated record made him out to be.
Thats' true
but he was still a bigger guy and Cotto was coming of a pretty bad loss.
A lot of people were picking Foreman going in.
Admittedly
it will prob be on free in the UK and if so i will watch it,hoping Pacquaio blasts him away… :)
Matt, Who would you rather see him fight that could:
(a) be a competitive challenge
(b) draw the same level of interest
© realisticly be made
(d) make the same kind of money
(e) embellish his legacy
(f) further box Floyd in in further negotiations
Look,if Marg hadn’t done what he had i would say he is the most logical challenger but he did do it and i just think it stinks that he walks straight into this big money fight with a belt on the line after what he did.
I admit that with Mosley out of the picture and Cotto and Clottey already taken care of,it is hard to find a good opponent.I would have preferred Bradley but i realise Margo is a bigger name.
I just don’t even think Marg should be fighting at all to be honest,certainly not after a poxy one year ban.
I hear you
But I have concluded that what happened is both inconclusive and can never be proven….one way or the other.
There will never be evidence put forward that can be credible because whatever we have heard or read is just that hearsay, spin and opinion. The wraps themselves were mishandled and handled so many times by so many people that they are not admissible in a court of law. That is why they are never part of the ongoing debate.
Moreover, the politics of California are such that this was a minor football being kicked around with no economic incentive for them to do anything but BS some more once the ball was put back in their ‘court’…..which of course wasn’t a court at all but bunch of political appointees.
I’m not trying to change your mind Matt. just think it might be a great fight.
Plus, I hopeManny knows what he’s doing. Margarito is huge compared to Manny…..towering over him by half a head.
The commission,Mosley’s trainer,Margo and Margo trainer were all there to see the hands being wrapped.Thats good enough for me.
Thats good enough for me.If you discredit the commission’s integrity then you can’t really put trust in anyone.
Margo commits the crime and you are making a case in his favour.Come on! :)
No excuses for Margo as far as i am concerned.
I saw that....
And was just re-phrasing it .
All good points, Floorer.
Exactly !!
and you know both of these two enter the ring planning to do just that.
This could just end up being a replay of Pac/DLH.
Pacquiao is just too fast for a guy whose primary asset isn’t speed. Are we going to see more of this?
If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...
Haha. The double hook. Didn’t Roy Jones do this before though? I think I have seen him do this at least once, I don’t remember against who.
by erasedcitizen on Sep 4, 2010 9:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Nice shot. Manny clapping both hands on Clottey hoping he could get him to come out and fight.
I think we can be pretty certain that Margarito ain’t Clottey.
In fact, when those two fought, hand injuries aside, Clottey stopped and Margarito had just started. Had Clottey not stopped after four rounds, he would have won and arguably this fight might not even be happening.
But then again, we are looking at a picture of Joshua Clottey, a man who must kick himself every time he looks in the mirror. That man has no excuses for having come so close and yet remaining so far.
It was kind of ridiculous that he didn't pop out of the shell and exchange a few times.
Clottey claimed Pac wasn’t hurting him with his shots. If that’s the case, why not pop out and try to dish out a little bit?
I’d be horribly depressed if I were Clottey. Or maybe not, he made like $3mil for that one, I think?
If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...
Clottey was full of bull with that claim
Worse yet, he wasn’t interested in finding out what it felt like to get whacked all night. So he stayed with his hips back in his turtle shell all night, giving up virtually any opportunity to counter effectively let alone attack.
I don’t know about depressed but after Cotto then Manny he certainly can’t like watching tapes of his performances
Cotto was a warrior. Dude never quit.
Much respect for Miguel Angel following that fight, personally. Outside of Hatton, I thought Miguel put the best performance against Manny of anyone during Manny’s Reign of Terror over the boxing world.
Yes, I’m aware that Hatton got flattened, but he also had the notion that he’d stand in front of the little guy and exchange, trusting his chin and power to win out, and he never wavered from that plan. I honestly think that’s the best way to beat him, and Clottey should have taken a page.
If I was a hungry man with a gun in my hand and some promises to keep...
I just watched Cotto beating Judah again.
The fight was the summer before he lost to Margarito. Miguel was bleeding first from a bad cut in his mouth, then from his eye (head butt) but never stopped pressuring Judah and finally broke him down.
Great warrior indeed.
Cotto-Judah is a terrific fight. One I always enjoy watching.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
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