The Single Best Fight You Have Ever Seen
by Chaos100 on Jan 31, 2011 8:16 PM EST
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I had a chat tonight with a good friend of mine, who really knows his boxing. We were discussing Hagler/Leonard, and we disagree wholeheartedly on who won. We moved swiftly on, and were talking about Leonard/Hearns 1, when my friend asserted that this was the single best fight he has ever seen. He said the whole big-fight atmosphere that preceded it, the relevance both contemporary and historical, the action in the ring, the drama, the qualityof both guys really contributed to what he would have as his #1 fight ever.
This is (maybe) not to be confused with 'favourite' fight ever, or maybe the two are intrinsically linked, but the comment got me wondering: what is the best fight I've ever seen?
Now, because I'm relatively young, I missed out on the historical context of Holmes/Cooney, for example, and I wasn't there for Ali's career, so I have to judge on what I've seen on video. In other words, while my friend has experienced the buildup to a lot of great fights, I only know what I see in documentaries, or read, combined with the video of the in-ring action itself. I threw a couple of other fights at him to see how they fared on his Big Fight Abacus, and he threw them all back as being Quite Simply Not As Good as the first Leonard/Hearns fight.
Some I named were Ali/Frazier 3, Morales/Barrera 1, Hagler/Hearns (which even I, as a massive advocate of this fight as being on the Required Reading list for anybody who wants to watch great fights, have to admit might suffer due to its brevity), and Cotto/Margarito. He said that while all these fights had something, they all lacked an intangible and maybe unquantifiable quality that made Leonard/Hearns 1 his #1.
So I thought I'd ask, because I'm really curious about this and there are loads that I probably should have thrown at him but didn't: What is the best fight you've ever seen? This could be your favourite, but I'm not sure it really means just that; this question (the way I mean it anyway) could possibly be rephrased as something like: if you were trying to convert a casual boxing fan into a hardcore one, and you were going to show them one fight that would best suit the purpose, which would it be? Or, if you like, disregard this meaning, and select your own definition of 'best'. I'm happy either way. I'd just like to canvas opinion, really. It's been bugging me all night.
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Hmmm, the first thing that popped into my head was Gatti v. Ward I.
I’m relatively young, too. The Corrales v. Castillo fight was truly great – “you better fucking get inside now”, I’ll never forget that line.
I like watching Marvin Hagler, so when I hear those big icons thrown out from recent history, I immediately think of Hagler v. Hearns. I’m not a big fan of Leonard, but that certainly doesn’t disqualify him from the discussion.
good topic.
"You can't search me without probable cause Or that proper ammunition they call reasonable suspicion Listen while I bring friction to your whole jurisdiction" - Fugees
Yeah, Ward/Gatti I and Corrales/Castillo jump to mind.
Barrera/Morales I. Vazquez/Marquez III.
Most people don't know shit about boxing. At all. Period. - Roger Mayweather
by The Kittitas Kid on Jan 31, 2011 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
Ward-Gatti I
was the first thing that came to mind.
by Verklemptomaniac on Feb 3, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
mancini v. kim and prince charles williams v. merqui sosa are two best fights ive ever seen.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
prince charles williams v. merqui sosa
Just caught that one recently. It was a keeper for sure.
Most people don't know shit about boxing. At all. Period. - Roger Mayweather
by The Kittitas Kid on Feb 1, 2011 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
Mancini Kim fight was its own kind of insanity.
The way they both came out in the 14th round was so bone chilling, it was humbling.
For me, it is very hard, damn near impossible, not to put Ali Frazier I and III on top. They were indescibable.
But Deigo getting up and taking out Corrales was like no other fight.
Ever.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Mancini Kim fight was its own kind of insanity.
The way they both came out in the 14th round was so bone chilling, it was humbling.
its been some years since i watched it in full, but i remember every round being non stop. just brutal and amazing stuff by both guys.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
by sonofapsycho on Feb 1, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks for reminding me about it
I remember exactly where I was and being amazed that two guys could and would leave it all in the ring.
All of it.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
This is a very tough call.
I LOVED the David Tua vs Ike Ibabuchi fight. That would be my favorite fight from when I wasn’t a fan.
The best I have ever seen when I was a fan and hardcore into the sport (including buildup and the fight) was probably Cotto-Margarito. I bought it last minute and watched it by myself but I just had the feeling the fight was going to be great and boy it was.
good call
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
Tua/Ike is in my top 10, definitely.
As is Cotto/Margarito, which is probably my ‘favourite’ fight of all time.
However, I can see why my friend says Leonard/Hearns 1…. the shift of momentum (twice), the drama…. it was a pretty unreal fight.
There are a few on this thread already that I’ve not seen…. looking for Mancini/Kim now…. :)
In 2008 Lewis commented on a possible match up with Riddick Bowe. "He waits until I am in retirement to call out my name," said Lewis. "I will come out of retirement to beat up that guy. I'll beat him up for free."
When you know what's going to happen
it’s a hard fight to watch.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
You mean when you know who wins?
Or is there something else looming? (By which I mean a Benn/McClellan style situation)
In 2008 Lewis commented on a possible match up with Riddick Bowe. "He waits until I am in retirement to call out my name," said Lewis. "I will come out of retirement to beat up that guy. I'll beat him up for free."
very much so.
its still the best fight ive ever seen.
"Newspapermen ask dumb questions. They look up at the sun and ask if it is shining."
-Sonny Liston
by sonofapsycho on Feb 1, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
Damn.
Two of the best fights I’ve ever seen are Watson/Eubank and Benn/McClellan. I’m not sure I need another tragedy as one of my top 10…. :/
In 2008 Lewis commented on a possible match up with Riddick Bowe. "He waits until I am in retirement to call out my name," said Lewis. "I will come out of retirement to beat up that guy. I'll beat him up for free."
but if you didn't know
I don’t think you’d want the ref to stop the fight. Kim acted like he could still fight.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
I'm really curious to see it now, but.... I hate seeing human tragedy now.
I’ll watch the fight anyway, but thanks for the warning.
In 2008 Lewis commented on a possible match up with Riddick Bowe. "He waits until I am in retirement to call out my name," said Lewis. "I will come out of retirement to beat up that guy. I'll beat him up for free."
Totally, BA
There was no way anyone wanted that fight stopped. In fact, I believe it was in the 14th round when Kim came out like he was El Cid leading a charge, one hand thrust in the air like he was saying “let’s get it on!!”
Manny does that when he gets hit….but then Manny up his game and puts some serious hurt on his opponent.
Kim tried with his heart and soul. RIP.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Or is there something else looming?
Yeah, you could say that. The outcome of Mancini/Kim changed the international boxing landscape forever.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Which was a bunch of crap
that was based on bunk science and advertising $$$, but that’s a whole other story.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
There are many title fights I see these days where I think “if this went 3 more rounds, could be a whole different story.”
"You can't search me without probable cause Or that proper ammunition they call reasonable suspicion Listen while I bring friction to your whole jurisdiction" - Fugees
Right?!
It’s a little annoying sometimes.
I’m gonna send you a study I found that might blow your mind about their decision. I used to buy the line about “late-round danger” (or, at least, I figured we should err on the side of caution) until I read the actual recorded historical figures. The answer turns out to be pretty simple: not only do the large majority of deaths and serious injuries happen in the middle rounds, but the vast majority of them are obviously due to mismatches. I’ve been saying that forever too. Mismatches are the most dangerous thing about boxing.
It’s at home but I will send to you when I dig it up.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
I'd like to red that study jrok.
There is no question that fight damaged the international staure of boxing. Unfairly IMO. But it did nonetheless.
I was talking to a football helmet designer (and the former owner of Riddell) yesterday about concussions and the recent op-ed suggesting Football be banned. Without the unnessary digression, the gist of our conversation was that the greatest threat to the heads of football players today is the incredible weight and speed of the men wearing them. And the greatest threat to their lives may very well be their fat.
Boxing has been a poster boy for much that is socially unacceptable in sport. Maybe we should talk about that on another thread.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Yeah, I don’t wanna hijack this thread but it is a topic I feel pretty strongly about after sorting through the actual historical record.
I’ll do another post and link the study to it.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Hey, feel free.
This thread is about the biggest and best fights, and therefore that wouldn’t be a hijacking. I’d be really curious to see what you throw out there.
In 2008 Lewis commented on a possible match up with Riddick Bowe. "He waits until I am in retirement to call out my name," said Lewis. "I will come out of retirement to beat up that guy. I'll beat him up for free."
Calzaghe Kessler was definitely one I wanted to see go 15, but obviously there are better examples...
Although, had it gone 15, I’m not sure we’d have caught the end of it. :)
In 2008 Lewis commented on a possible match up with Riddick Bowe. "He waits until I am in retirement to call out my name," said Lewis. "I will come out of retirement to beat up that guy. I'll beat him up for free."
Hang on.... was this the fight that resulted in rounds being decreased from 15 to 12?
Because now I think I know what’s coming. I think I read about it.
I have downloaded the video, but haven’t watched it yet.
In 2008 Lewis commented on a possible match up with Riddick Bowe. "He waits until I am in retirement to call out my name," said Lewis. "I will come out of retirement to beat up that guy. I'll beat him up for free."
Yes, it was.
from Wikipedia:
Boxing rule changes:
The WBC, which was not the fight’s sanctioning organization, announced during its annual convention of 1982 that many rules concerning fighters’ medical care before fights needed to be changed. One of the most significant was the WBC’s reduction of title fights from fifteen rounds to twelve. The WBA and the IBF followed the WBC in 1987. When the WBO was formed in 1988, it immediately began operating with 12-round world championship bouts.6
Additionally, on the recommendation of the Nevada State Athletic Commission, the number of ring ropes was increased from five to six to prevent fighters from falling through the ropes and out of the ring.
In the years after Kim’s death new medical procedures were introduced to fighters’ pre-fight checkups, such as electrocardiograms, brain tests, and lung tests. As one boxing leader put it, “A fighter’s check-ups before fights used to consist of blood pressure and heartbeat checks before 1982. Not anymore.”[citation needed]
This tragedy followed scandals in the TV/boxing industry in the late 70s, and the ascent of American-style football’s popularity, which drew audience numbers away from boxing—it was one more reason why TV no longer wanted much to do with boxing and, having found a handy replacement in football, never looked back.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
But at Least
in terms of improved prefight medicals, Kim didn’t die in vain.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
I also downloaded this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-HQycb5fp8
Thought you might be interested.
In 2008 Lewis commented on a possible match up with Riddick Bowe. "He waits until I am in retirement to call out my name," said Lewis. "I will come out of retirement to beat up that guy. I'll beat him up for free."
Thank you for the link
I had seen it on ESPNC, it’s really good.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
So we now we have a bunch of bigger, faster, stronger guys
on steroids at every level of organized Football, smashing heads and taking numbers.
Fascinating how hypocritical the fans and the powers that be can be.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
How True That Is
And if you call them on it, and I always do, they look at you as if you’re 1. mentally ill, 2. Anti-American, 3, a vicious barbarian.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
So we can only choose one?
Gatti/Ward I was brutal, Barrerra/Morales I was a war. Corrales/Castillo I was also a war but had some great drama for its ending, so I’d probably go with that one because I went bananas towards the end.
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
This is very, very difficult
I can’t really choose only one. I watched heaps with my dad when I was younger, but I was never as invested wholly in one fighter in the Eubank-Collins-Benn era as I was with Joe Calzaghe against Jeff Lacy. For a casual fan, as an example of hitting without getting hit, in what was supposed to be a competitive fight, I will always remember that one.
Apart from my unashamed fanboyism there, then maybe Corrales-Castillo just as its the one I saw most recently. But there are so many, especially fights that weren’t very big at all but because I was there, it was an amazing experience.
I hated every minute of training, but I said, ‘’Don’t quit. Suffer now and live the rest of your life as a champion.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)
Tyson/Douglas shook my eight-year-old world and branded me a boxing fan for life. I have no idea why my dad let me stay up for that particular fight (probably because he didn’t think he’d be keeping me up very late), but seeing one man’s fruition at the most unexpected, however so brief, was amazing.
He's older than me ;)
In 2008 Lewis commented on a possible match up with Riddick Bowe. "He waits until I am in retirement to call out my name," said Lewis. "I will come out of retirement to beat up that guy. I'll beat him up for free."
Opinionated bunch of whippersnappers. LOL
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I was seven – I remember my Dad talking about it as he dropped me off at school.
"You can't search me without probable cause Or that proper ammunition they call reasonable suspicion Listen while I bring friction to your whole jurisdiction" - Fugees
I was 6.
I remember my uncles, who were boxing mad, raving about it for the whole weekend in my aunt’s kitchen.
In 2008 Lewis commented on a possible match up with Riddick Bowe. "He waits until I am in retirement to call out my name," said Lewis. "I will come out of retirement to beat up that guy. I'll beat him up for free."
The more I think about this, the more I am leaning toward agreeing with my mate.
There are a lot of fights that I simply wasn’t there for, as I have said, but from what I have read and seen regarding the relevance etc, and also having seen the fight about 6 times, I’m struggling to think of a better fight than Leonard Hearns 1.
In 2008 Lewis commented on a possible match up with Riddick Bowe. "He waits until I am in retirement to call out my name," said Lewis. "I will come out of retirement to beat up that guy. I'll beat him up for free."
It would take alot of deliberation.
But honestly, the first fight that came to my mind was Mayweather v Corley. To me that figth is immensly entertaining. Because, Corley landed good shots and forced Floyd to fight, therefore forcing him to perform amazingly entertaining boxing. I loved every round of that fight. Not back and forth, but beautifully competitive. Let me know what you think.
Balboa vs Creed II hands down.
After the challenger put up such a valiant effort in their first bout, it was great to see him wearing that gold around his waist after their second war went Rocky’s way.
I’ll never forget it.
by SilverNBlackZach! on Feb 1, 2011 9:15 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Real good thread Chaos
Helps us youngsters find some good old wars that otherwise we wouldn’t have seen.
Im with TyleCurtis up the top in that, from when I have been a fan, Cotto-Margarito is probably top.
I really like Barrera Morrales 1. Non-stop action. As was Gatti Ward. And the fantastic drama at the end of Corrales Castillo means it Can’t be left off any list.
On a more personal list. What Mosely done to Margo was breath taking. Went in with one of the most feared guy’s and destroyed him. As was Calzaghe- Lacy and Hopkins Pavlik.
Khan Maidana was great for it’s momentum shifts too, even if it wasn’t an all out war.
Had Lacy been more competitive, that fight might have made this list.
It had everything else: the big buildup, the relevance (to an extent), the unpredictability…. but let’s be right, Lacy got his ass unceremoniously handed to him in there. It wasn’t even a ‘fight’, and I bet Joe has had tougher sparring sessions than that.
In 2008 Lewis commented on a possible match up with Riddick Bowe. "He waits until I am in retirement to call out my name," said Lewis. "I will come out of retirement to beat up that guy. I'll beat him up for free."
And as much as I know what you mean about Mosley/Margarito, there are definite asterisks regarding Tony’s mental state for that fight, coming as it did after the pre-fight debacle (funny that, eh??).
Cotto/Margarito is probably my #1 that has happened since I’ve been a hardcore fan, but had that fight had the buildup of, say, HAtton/Floyd, then I think itmight get somewhere close to Hearns/Leonard
In 2008 Lewis commented on a possible match up with Riddick Bowe. "He waits until I am in retirement to call out my name," said Lewis. "I will come out of retirement to beat up that guy. I'll beat him up for free."
I can see where your coming from concerning the Calzaghe Lacy fights and Mosley Margo
But it’s more a personal thing. If they had been mismatches, or predictable beatings then yeah I would agree. But they were shocking at the time. Those performances is what a boxer dreams off. When it all comes together.
Yes Margo’s state of mind has to be questioned. But still Mosley was teeing off on him with those right hands.
They arn’t the greatest fights granted. But they are up there with my favourite fights because of the perofrmances they put in were kind of shocking and fantastic.
by Sweet science on Feb 3, 2011 7:40 AM EST up reply actions
Well, at the time I was shocked by Mosley's performance.
But since then my view has changed.
As for Calzaghe, I still find it amazing that so many people, and respected people at that, picked Lacy. I remember having a debate with my mate just before the fight where he just kept saying “well you keep picking Joe, and I’ll keep agreeing with everyone else who actually knows what they’re talking about.” I’ve never been a big Calzaghe fan (and even the remnants of fandom wore off pretty quickly during the twilight of his career) but I couldn’t believe that so many journalists, boxing writers, and hardcore fans were picking a short-ass body-builder whose best win was an old washed up Robin Reid to beat Joe. It still baffles me now.
In 2008 Lewis commented on a possible match up with Riddick Bowe. "He waits until I am in retirement to call out my name," said Lewis. "I will come out of retirement to beat up that guy. I'll beat him up for free."
Again, Pryor/Arguello 1.
Just an amazing fight.
I’d also have to throw in Tszyu/Hatton just because I loved it.
Hagler/ Leonard as well because every time I watch it I come away with a different impression of who won it.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
Pryor Arguello. Period.
Both fights were sensational.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
There are some older fights that were really great
But I think my favorite of all time is Vazquez-Marquez II, just because that’s the best fight I’ve watched live IMO (yes, I like that one better than Corrales-Castillo personally). There are a few older ones I might like better if I hadn’t already known the result by the time I watched them, but that’s actually something important for me.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Probably
The 1st Corrales-Castillio fight. Just classic
Humberto Gonzalez-Michael Carbajal I
Other than that, Corrales-Castillo I and Vazquez-Marquez III.
"But women DON'T understand the offside rule!" said in defence of Andy Gray.
Ward-Gatti 1
and Buster, of course.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
James "Buster" Douglas
vs Mike Tyson, Upset of the Century, and pictured in my avatar. It’s really a wonderful fight. Douglas was an uneven fighter during his career, but the night he beat Tyson—something got into him, and he fought a gorgeous fight.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
Thought so,
Just didn’t want to assume the glaringly obvious. :-)
I still feel he had a long time to recover from that knock down. Doesn’t take away what he did that night though. Those were the days when the whole world knew who was fighting!!
I still feel he had a long time to recover from that knock down.
I don’t feel he did, but more to the point, he didn’t really need it. Saying the count was long, and I not saying that, he took the time because he had every reason to believe he had it, and all boxers with a brain know to take till 8 or so to get up, whether they need it or not. He could have got up immediately, but the only clue given is the ref’s count, so that’s what he went by.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
Yep, I realise that.
but watch how quick the ref reaches ‘ten’ when Tyson’s down. There’s hardly a gap between nine and ten.
Like I alluded to earlier… though, Buster beat him fair n’ square.
How do you both feel that fight measures up to Ali/Frazier 3, or Hearns/Leonard 1:
in terms of the actual fight and also in terms of historical relevance, drama, and build-up?
In 2008 Lewis commented on a possible match up with Riddick Bowe. "He waits until I am in retirement to call out my name," said Lewis. "I will come out of retirement to beat up that guy. I'll beat him up for free."
Hard question for me to answer personally... I don't have the historical knowledge,
I wasn’t really into boxing ‘til the mid to late 80’s so my attention wouldn’t have been on Ali/Frazier or SRL/Hearns.
I do remember hearing stuff about Tyson going off the boil quite a bit before fighting Buster Douglas though, even so, it was huge news the next day. I never saw it live, I couldn’t afford Sky back then!
I think both fit the bill quite nicely. :)
In 2008 Lewis commented on a possible match up with Riddick Bowe. "He waits until I am in retirement to call out my name," said Lewis. "I will come out of retirement to beat up that guy. I'll beat him up for free."
If I recall correctly,
Wasn’t the Tyson?Douglas fight in China. I remember all the stuff with Tyson being interviewed by all the locals and he was bemused and wondering why nobody spoke English!!
Tokyo.
:)
In 2008 Lewis commented on a possible match up with Riddick Bowe. "He waits until I am in retirement to call out my name," said Lewis. "I will come out of retirement to beat up that guy. I'll beat him up for free."
Hahaha!! Trust me!!
Tokyo!
No wonder Tyson couldn’t understand all those ‘Chinese’ dudes… they were all speaking Japonic! ;-)
Not a bad shout: Buster/Tyson is a pretty under-rated fight.
Maybe it suffers a little too much from the ‘outrageous upset’ tag, and people actually forget how good a fight it was.
In 2008 Lewis commented on a possible match up with Riddick Bowe. "He waits until I am in retirement to call out my name," said Lewis. "I will come out of retirement to beat up that guy. I'll beat him up for free."
for me
castillo – corrales
and gatti – ward are the 2 “you will ALWAYS remember where u were when you saw them” fights of my life.. and im 25…
and corrales castillo holds a special place in my heart cuz im from sacramento…
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
I'm really curious
~Sir, curiosity resolved.
The best modern fight you can view between two prime great p4per types fought at the highest level of skill, power, heart, 100% action, ferocious give and take, ebb and flow, no quarter given is the first Alexis Arguello vs Aaron Pryor installment, 14th round TKO by Pryor.
Fistic Manna from the Gods sir.
Going back in time to 1910, it’s the exact same deal between Ad Wolgast vs Battling Nelson, 40th round KO by Wolgast in a fight that NEVER let up!
"That fellow is a menace. He trains on beer and just won the heavyweight championship of the world."------Frank Hugo, crew coach of Syracuse University talking about Max Baer who knocked down giant champion Primo Carnera 11X on the way to an 11th round stoppage and the championship belt.
by Perfessor Albertus Emeritus Lion V on Feb 10, 2011 3:09 PM EST reply actions
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