Donaire Tops Narvaez in Dreary Affair
by A.F. on Oct 23, 2011 2:33 AM EDT
in Boxing Results and Post-Fight Analysis
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Fans expecting fireworks from the often sensational fists of Nonito Donaire were left a little underwhelmed, as the quick-handed bantamweight cruised to a twelve round points win over tricky southpaw Omar Narvaez. The fight was a slow paced encounter, with occasional jeers greeting the lack of action, as Donaire did just a bit more throughout the twelve rounder than his cautious foe.
After a few cagey rounds to start the contest in which Narvaez had his moments, Donaire managed to break through in the fourth, catching the Argentinean with a nice right hand to the body, and splitting the guard late in the session with a stinging straight right hand. A big flurry along the ropes followed, though Narvaez was quick to fire back with a counter, and when it was clear his legs were still there, the action again slowed with Donaire going back to a more measured approach.
There were few lively moments the rest of the way, with Donaire, under instructions from trainer Robert Garcia to keep doing what he was doing, finding the mark through or around the high guard with the occasional shot. In response, Narvaez, gloves always up, failed to mount the required counter-offensive needed to change the course of the battle.
According to Donaire, there was little he could do with an opponent that refused to open up – though the reverse could also be said, as Narvaez faced a significant size disadvantage, and was courting danger whenever he dared take a risk. Of course, with Donaire steadily banking rounds, the onus was on Narvaez to take those risks, and at no point did the former fly-weight stray from his cautious game plan. He appeared content to last the distance, and he succeeded, though lost by scores of 120-108 on the cards of all three official judges.
Donaire admitted after the fight that draining down to 118lbs may have sapped his energy, as he mentioned feeling like he was cramping up in the later rounds. HBO didn’t offer fight night weights due a New York State rule, though the fighter was likely (according to his tweet the previous evening) around 130lbs, and it was no surprise to hear that he would be heading to 122 for his next bout.
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Certainly not what boxing fans were hoping for
But after Montiel, Donaire had a pretty high hill to climb to meet or exceed expectations. He has been off for eight months. He was given a huge spotlight. And he was given a very credible opponent; albeit an unwilling one.
The problem was less Donaire and more Narvaez. For real boxing fans, we know that it is near impossible to crack a shell defense, especially that of a master boxer choosing to use his craft to survive and not win.
The good news is that Donaire is scheduled, whether they be televised by the networks or not, to fight fout times next year. The kid clearly comes to please. He knows that winning in a pleased style is the root of his countryman’s success. So I think it’s safe to say that there will some exciting moments ahead.
I certainly hope so because with teh exception of some surprisingly good undercard fights here and there, the headliners have been sorely disappointing this season.
Here’s hopin’ JMM gives Manny hell and visa versa…and that Margarito and Cotto start in hell and emerge with glory.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
There’s no way Cotto/Marg won’t be an all out war. I will gladly pony up the PPV cash for that stacked card.
by Rob Young on Oct 27, 2011 2:50 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The fight was a mismatch
and everybody knew it—strikes me as unrealistic to expect high excitement when the deck is that heavily stacked. It was Donaire whom everyone came to see, and it was Donaire who, with all his natural talent, relatively immense size and strength, and the Conte Edge, failed to perform as well as he could have despite being the attraction. Narvaez walked out, he wasn’t carried out: Credit to him for that. I guess I don’t like suicide boxing any more than I like snuff boxing, and give the man plently of credit for a lesson in craft and common sense.
It takes a master craftsman to survive a set-up like that. I’d like to see Narvaez in a fair fight. Because although the judges and ref did perfectly fine, it wasn’t a fair fight, and never could have been one, with Donaire unofficiallybut in fact in another weight class.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
Can’t disagree. Narvaez didn’t take the risks required to win – but it’s not wrong to argue that he never had a chance, and did as well as could be expected in frustrating Donaire for 12 rounds. There was a sentiment from many on Twitter that he should have sold out and gone for it, but he’s a crafty operator, not a pressure guy – and it’s probably unfair to expect him to change gears and summon the will a prime Joe Frazier type, and get flattened for the sake of our lust for a sensational outcome.
TheBoxingBulletin.com
by A.F. on Oct 23, 2011 9:09 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Pre-fight and fight-time weight disparities seem to border on the potentially fatal, at least in my view. I don’t understand how these guys manage it.
I don’t know how they manage it either. I remember when Manny was at 130, he was drying out and re-hydrating 15 or 16 pounds. They have over 24 hours to do it, which I gather helps immensely in the process – but really, that’s a good argument to go back to same day weigh-ins, when a guy like Donaire wouldn’t dare even trying to fight at 118, and we wouldn’t see a match-up like this with such a size disparity.
TheBoxingBulletin.com
Same-day weigh-ins are more dangerous, I think. Guys will always try to dry out at least somewhat because being big for your weight class is an clear advantage. They then end up going into the ring dehydrated, which is a recipe for serious brain injury.
This debate comes up a lot in MMA, where you see some pretty ridiculous weight cuts (30+ lbs in some cases), in part because of the weight-cutting culture in wrestling, which a lot of those fighters come out of.
That’s a fair point – and it’s a tricky situation. You don’t want guys stepping into the ring when they’re not properly hydrated, but at the same time, we’ve got fighters making a mockery of the weight classes.
TheBoxingBulletin.com
Ambivalence Rules for Me on That Question
They went to day-before weigh-ins to avoid the danger of dehydration during the fight, and that’s understandable. But the day-before weigh-ins endanger the guy who is really in the weight class instead, and that’s not safe or fair either. The winds of change blow every which way for me on this, but I’m heading back toward same-day weigh-ins—at least that way the danger redounds to the guy monkeying the weight class, and is more fair to the guy who really belongs there. There’s going to be danger one way or another, and one dares to hope trainers would stop the bigger guy from hurting himself that way in what you’ve got to hope are more enlightened times..
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
What is “really in the weight class”, though? If you’re able to cut enough to make the weigh-in, and still be able to perform well the next day, is that any different from other physical advantages, like being faster or a harder puncher?
It’s soft-core cheating, is what it is. There are natural advantages—more talent, better speed—and arranged, slipslidin’ thru’ the rules advantages. Monkeying the weight class is unfair, imo. Donaire’s no longer really a bantamweight, stayed just long enough to beat a much, much smaller guy, expected to go to super bant. immediately if not sooner. Legal, but classless, really, and to me unacceptable. Mismatches are always unacceptable. We all watch them anyway, but I never like it, or myself as much, for doing so.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
I forget which agency does it, but I like the “you can’t rehydrate more than 10 lbs.” rule in principle. Of course this makes no difference in the lower weight classes where this could be the biggest issue. I like the idea that you can’t rehydrate more than 2 weight classes or else you get disqualified.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Oct 24, 2011 4:00 AM EDT up reply actions
MMA has fewer weight classes to choose from with upwards of 20 lbs between some of them. 135, 145, 155, 170, 185, 205, 265
by Rob Young on Oct 27, 2011 2:54 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
As has been pointed out, this rather self-abusive practice is obviously motivated by the desire for a fight-time size advantage.
Maybe weigh-in should be done via a flotation tank rather than a scale, and there should be some medically mandated minimum tissue fluid content that a fighter must meet in order to be allowed to fight.
I agree with BoxAnne. I know many were ragging on Narvaez for merely surviving, but like BoxAnne says, this wasn’t a fair fight. The difference in size and weight was staggering. Narvaez did try to open up at some point but he sensed that he just wouldn’t be able to take Donaire’s punches for 12 rounds so he defended himself. I have no problem with that. And, no I don’t think the Clottey analogy is comparable because Clottey was bigger and stronger than Pac and the few times he did hit him, he clearly moved him, which was not the case last night.
Bob Arum would promote Lucifer himself if he could put asses in the seats.
+1
I would only like to add that despite the wish it weren’t the case, Roy Jones Jr. was spot on last night in regards to Narvaez doing what a seasoned professional should do under the circumsances.
The good news is that all parties, and I refer here to Nonito and TR, are interested in seeing him fight frqequently and are making efforts and offers to see that it happens. He willfight two quality opponents next February and June; most likely Arce and Nishioka.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I agree with everybody here that Narvaez did as much as much as he could. Narvaez had trouble with Cesar Seda in their fight because Seda was a big junior bantam with good skills. Narvaez was at an even bigger size disadvantage in this fight, and Narvaez did very well defensively. Narvaez would hold his own I believe against any 118 pounder not named Donaire. Hopefully Donaire can go up to 122 and fight Nishioka, or Rigondeux who will decimate Ramos come december. Donaire versus Arce is just a horrid mismatch and Arce will get hurt.
by 36_chambers_ofdeatH on Oct 23, 2011 3:10 PM EDT reply actions
Rigondeaux isn’t the most interesting fighter to see. He limits everyone output by 50 to 60 percent and I honest cant see it being a eye candy fight.
I would love to see it, nonetheless because Rogondeaux hasn’t face anyone that is remotely skilled or talented as him in in perhaps a decade.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
Rigondeaux needs to get past Ramos first
…to state the obvious. Not that I think Ramos is a world-beater, but he’s a much bigger challenge than anyone Rigondeaux has yet faced as a professional.
by geraldmcgrew on Oct 23, 2011 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
sorry to hijack the thread, but according to Dan Rafael of ESPN, Jack Loew is out as Kelly Pavlik’s trainer, and Pavlik will go train in Oxnard with Robert Garcia..
Pavlik was so disappointing on the Pac/Sugar undercard. :(
by Rob Young on Oct 27, 2011 2:56 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Gamboa-Donaire can't come soon enough for me
though I know I probably have a long wait. Arce-Donaire does nothing for me, though it will net the fighters some cash, and should get Nonito the kind of KO we’ve grown accustomed to. Nishioka-Donaire makes sense as a step toward 126 and I sort of look forward to it, though if Nonito impressively dominates Arce, I’d prefer he just move straight to Gamboa. That’s one of the best fights that can be made in boxing, and it’s not like Donaire isn’t walking around that heavy anyway. Again, I know it’s unlikely to happen soon.
Also, when is Mikey Garcia going to step up his competition? I’d love to see him in with Jhonny Gonzalez. And while I know that any Billy Dib fight is painful to watch, even he would be a more skilled opponent than those Garcia has been fighting.
Gamboa-Donaire will be “stewing” until it’s rotten… like Gamboa/Lopez.
Bob Arum would promote Lucifer himself if he could put asses in the seats.
I fear you are correct, though I shall hope for the best.
by geraldmcgrew on Oct 23, 2011 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Nothing is static.
By that I mean everything in boxing can change in a flash…or with the lack of flash.
Juanma has plenty of work ahead of him just getting his belt back from Salido. He has a built in constituency, who lokeall others,wants to see him winning once again. I doubt there is much appetite even in Puerto Rico for him to fight Gamboa any time soon, notat least until he has shown he can take it as well as he can dish it.
The fighters hav to do their jobs. Nothing is a given. Just as soon as Juanma gets sidetracked, along comes Nonito, moving up and crossing paths possibly with Gamboa, who has also moved up. But Nonito, like Juanma before him wants all the fights, all the names and as much money as possible. …. So now it’s on him to get past Arce,who you know will fight through hell to win and entertain. And Nishioka.those fights are big and soon enough for Donaire. One will be in the Phillipines, in the new stadium next spring. The other before.
Gamboa has been doing his job. Nonito needs to keep doing his. And if Juanma can get nback on top, he’ll have plenty of shots at big names along the way. But that for me is a very big if.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I think you're right about how it works
Promlem is, when a fighter doesn’t “do his job” by winning all his fights on the way to the big one many of us are really waiting for, that big one is diminished or even scuttled completely and the fighter doesn’t make all the money he was planning to make anyway. I’m in favor of making the big fight now. If you win it (which you might not do in the lesser fights anyway), there will be more big fights to cash in on afterward. I can understand Nonito wanting to get more of his rhythm back before facing Gamboa, but once he does that, delaying it to make “more total money” is in my view an unnecessary risk. Again, the winner of that fight would have more superfights in the offing including, quite likely, rematches.
Ray Leonard had a rep in his time for stringing out his big matchups, but in retrospect, when the Hearns fight became his biggest fight he got right to it. And if his eye hadn’t been severely damaged by that fight, I don’t think we would have waited very long for the Hagler superfight (which in that case would have featured both fighters in their primes!). Of course Leonard (and his astute advisor Mike Trainer) knew how to promote himself and the sport as a whole, so he probably would have taken at least one tune-up on free major-network broadcast television to bring in even more fans.
by geraldmcgrew on Oct 24, 2011 12:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Ray Leonard was a super-hero for me; a superlative fighter capable of whatever style or approach was necessary to dispatch his man. His victory over Tommy Hearns, a supreme welterweight who could box with the best and hit like no other, is boxing immortality.
There is little SRL did not accomplish in his prime but he did things in his own time. He was always the A-side fighter and his team controlled the pace and rhythm of his career. I am not suggesting that he did or did not avoid or delay fighting anyone (some do as you know), but he could have and probably did to some extent determine when and who he would fight. In the end, he fought them all so he IMO is beyond reproach.
I’m in favor of making the big fight now.
I completely understand your sentiment and it is certainly a righteous one shared by many if not most fans. I would venture to say however that between the set-up fights, the confidence builders, the money-makers and all the other fights selected and promoted, most fighters would privately disagree. Most, and particularly the fortunate who are well promoted, want as much money as possible.
That unfortunately does not mean that they want the same thing that ‘we’ do at the same time. It also means that sometimes we don’t get what we want. Given that reality (of the premier fighters calling some of his own shots), I am always intigued by what we might get…or should I say sometimes get.
Orlando Salido beat, some might say exposed, Juanma. I BTW am not in the Juanma was absolutely destined for greatness camp. Nor had I been before Mtagwe. I thought he was just too offensively oriented and he got clocked, not simply hit, all too often. So his loss to Salido was only surprising in that it was to Salido….who BTW, deserves a lot more credit for his achievement that I think he has been given.
Let’s see what Juanma can do. If he wins, great. bring on all the big names. if not, bring on all the big names anyyhow…for the rest of us; the fans.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I agree with you. I thought Juanma was a phenom at first when he first started getting notoriety. But he became vulnerable very very soon. Even before Mtagwa I remember the Puerto Rican press saying that Juanma had fallen in love with his own power and was neglecting other aspects of his game.
Juanma might still become a superstar but it might be more a doing of careful matchmaking and a superb job of image construction than anything else. I fully expect Juanma to get destroyed by both Donaire and Gamboa. He has the tools to be great, but, like Tito, he’s stubborn. I doubt he will change his trainer and find one that’s more defense oriented. A man like Juanma with a shaky chin needs to learn how to protect it.
Bob Arum would promote Lucifer himself if he could put asses in the seats.
Totally agree
With one exception.
I think his chin is pretty strong but the problem is he leaves it hanging out so far and gets hit so solid, it by definition has to crack. The young man needs some D to go with his O. Badly
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Not a fair fight?
Well, then, Narvaez shouldn’t have signed on to fight. I’m sure he knew what he was getting into when he read the contract. Donaire made weight. The fight goes on. In the end though, I can understand the sentiment of not wanting to get your head cleaned solely for the enjoyment of others.
I’m sure he knew what he was getting into when he read the contract
Not necessarily. He’s a guy who never loses, and has never been down. Guys with his talent and skills (and most of those without ) really believe they can beat anyone. And there’s an old saw in boxing that the more techically skilled boxer, which you can be sure he believed, on what evidence he had back home, will almost always win.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
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