Regardless of controversy, will Margarito-Cotto II be a good fight?
by jrok on Oct 25, 2011 11:44 PM EDT
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Forget all the controversy and the disgust for a minute, and pretend these two guys never fought before. Forget the suspicion that some observers have that Margarito has been stuffing his gloves for years. When Margarito-Cotto II goes down, will it be worth the money?
Since their first meeting, the "stalk-stun-killer" Antonio Margarito was made to look like a stiff punching bag by an old Shane Mosley. During his comeback, he was laughed at by beyond-fringe contender Robert Garcia and had his face badly broken by a guy who was fighting six inches uphill and twenty pounds underweight. In both incarnations, he is a guy whose main defense has always seemed to involve blocking every single punch with his face, and who hasn't looked effective offensively since before he was caught loading his knuckles with plaster casts.
On the other end, we have a Miguel Cotto; a smallish welterweight contender who is also a punch magnet, fighting fat above his best weight, and whose best win in the interim probably came against an old part-time brawler who was so down on his luck that he was trying to get MMA matches. His other wins included a light-touch, regional fighter and an opponent who he struggled to finish despite the fact he couldn't punch to save his life and had a broken leg.
I'm guessing the end result of this match will be similar to a Marquez-Vasquez IV or Hopkins-Jones II. This is going to end ugly and quick or ugly and long.
But maybe I'm crazy. What do you guys think? Can this possibly live up to the first match? Does it even mean anything for the division?
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You already know what I think but I will add that the ‘division’ in which they are fighting means nothing when it comes to these two.
This fight could be sanctioned by two weight lifting rats in an alley…and it would still be worth watching.
Let me ask you a question jrok?
Do you think that there is any chance of either man either failing to train to the teeth and/or leave everything in the ring?
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
This fight could be sanctioned by two weight lifting rats in an alley…and it would still be worth watching.
Well, those are all separate questions. So it sounds like the answer for you (and for me) is “no, it doesn’t mean shit for the weight class.”
Do you think that there is any chance of either man either failing to train to the teeth and/or leave everything in the ring?
Absolutely. I think there’s a big chance of failing to train to the teeth, knowing the volatility of both guys’ camps, the way they’ve looked in recent fights, their ages and the waning angle of their careers.
Is there a chance they won’t leave everything in the ring? Yeah. The chance is that Margarito is hiding a blind eye behind his shades, and that he will get it pounded until the doctor takes a look and says “no mas.”
You really think there’s no chance of the above happening?
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
I think there is a possibilty the eye may shatter. Yes
I do not think that either man will not train to the teeth. Nor do I think either man will ‘quit’ unless they are stopped.
I may be wrong. We’ve seen too many guys lately who have kissed, touched loves until they got married, submit, and surrender…or just plain phoned it …to not think that it is a possibility.
But I don’t believe that is what is going to happen in December.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
And yes...
Ragarding the weigh class, this doesn’t mean a thing. Cotto is already not defending his title to the best junior middleweights in the world. And Margarito is not going to be fighting at this level much longer, if at all.
On the other hand, AM is Mexican and he has a name that would be worth attaching to JCC Jr’s or Canelo’s record if the timing, opportunity and money is right.
If he wins, don’t expect Chavez’s name to be on the lsit of future opponents until say…2020.
If Cotto wins, methinks he might get another beating and pay day with Manny
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
If Cotto wins, methinks he might get another beating and pay day with Manny
No way. That fight is never happening again. It makes zero sense and no one is paying for it.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
If he wins and does not get a beating, he will without a doubt want the money that he would get from fighting Pacquaio. He will look to TR for the payday and they better have a good reason not to give it to him.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
One man wanting a fight means nothing. Everybody and their mother wants a fight with Mayweather or Pacquiao, because of the gates they draw. Cotto doesn’t have any leverage to get another fight with Pacquiao except being in the same stable, and there are other guys there who haven’t fought him who would get a crack first.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Such as?
At my signal, unleash hell.
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on Oct 26, 2011 3:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Don’t mistake my point as suggesting that Manny’s team (Roach) is even thinking about Cotto because from everything I have heard, they are not.
They want Floyd. Maybe Khan. Maybe…but not yet, Bradley. And have mentioned Ortiz.
But roach is not Manny and he doesn’t get him paid. His promoters do. And that means going where he most money is in most cases. Cotto still has a constituency. Especially if he wins.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Yeah, but, c’mon. It’s not happening unless all other options are dropped into a fiery volcano. Hell, if Marquez didn’t make a convincing box office show (and in the eyes of many, beating Pacquaio), he wouldn’t be in there either. All of those guys you mention make more sense than Pacquiao rematching the winner of Cotto-Margarito… although this is all besides the point of whether this fight itself is going to be good.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Don't get me wrong
I dont want to see a repeat of Pac beating Cotto.
The first fight was a msmatch after three rounds.
I’m only saying that if he wins, he will want it.
And if the money is there, you never know.
He may get it.
Some of his fans (delusionally) think he might be better off with Manny Stweard than he was in the first fight. Don’t count me among them.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
4 rounds...(splitting hairs I know :)
I think after the second knockdown, it dawned on him ‘he can hurt me but I can’t really hurt him’…and then it wasn’t close at all.
I don’t think its delusional to think he might be better off with a real trainer rather than effectively running his own training camp. I do hope he doesn’t go for the rematch if we wins, though.
As a tall guy, you gotta make the shorter guy take risks to get to you. Go through a bad neighborhood to get you.
As it gets closer, I think it will actually be a good fight, and it might even in a way live up to the first, even though they’re now at very different points in their careers.
I think Margarito will be desperate to win so that his previous win, which many now think was down to the gloves, will be more likely to be seen as all him. Losing, and losing badly, will confirm what most already thought about that fight (rightly or wrongly) and then by extension most of his career. So there’s more on the line for him, and I hope and expect him to come and fight hard for however long it lasts.
If Cotto pounds on his eye till the ref stops it, that for me as a Cotto fan will be a good fight :) That sounds a bit sadistic but thats just how I feel. It might be ugly in a sense, but I think its going to be an infinitely better fight than Hopkins-Jones II or Marquez/Vazquez IV.
As a tall guy, you gotta make the shorter guy take risks to get to you. Go through a bad neighborhood to get you.
If Cotto pounds on his eye till the ref stops it, that for me as a Cotto fan will be a good fight :) That sounds a bit sadistic but thats just how I feel. It might be ugly in a sense, but I think its going to be an infinitely better fight than Hopkins-Jones II or Marquez/Vazquez IV.
+1
by Sweet science on Oct 26, 2011 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I fear the Izzy/Rafa IV comparison in the other thread may prove prescient
Still a good undercard, though. Nice to have that insurance beneath the main event in case it does go south.
Most people don't know shit about boxing. At all. Period. - Roger Mayweather
by The Kittitas Kid on Oct 26, 2011 1:46 PM EDT reply actions
I think it’s more likely than not you will be right Jrok. HOWEVER, I hope you are wrong, and I think there is still a strong possibility you will be.
There is some serious, real bad blood here. Almost unrivaled really. Almost every non-Margarito fanboy believes Antonio cheated against Cotto. Is there solid proof? No, but it’s just common sense. And we aren’t talking about HGH or speed in the water bottle (both serious, but not even close to putting shit in your gloves). This is probably the worst offense you can commit in boxing, loading your gloves.
That narrative is VERY powerful and very compelling. It changed Cotto’s career forever and Margarito was caught in his next fight. There are hundreds of thousands of Cotto fans out there praying for cosmic justice in this fight. There are also still many Margarito fans who still pine for the STALKER-STUNNER-KILLER he was in his prime. I think this fight will sell well and very well could produce some serious fireworks.
I guess what I mean is that they just don’t look like the same guys out there to me. Also, the timing is a little fishy to me. There was never any question that the fight would happen “someday”, but as it stands I get the feeling that one or both are close to retirement and that’s why it’s happening now. With Margarito’s eye surgery, I think it’s pretty possible that everyone was afraid they missed their window for the fight, and a one-eyed fighter is getting put in there to take one last beating and paycheck.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
I think it could be a good fight, even if that means they’re similar levels of worn out. It all depends on Margarito’s eye. I’m not confident, but I’m not dismissing him just yet.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Oct 26, 2011 3:09 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Sometimes it does work out that way, and I’m guessing that’s the best possible outcome, maybe like a Mayorga-Vargas sort of a scrap (although stylewise there was bound to be some entertainment there).
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
I think it could be a good fight, even if that means they’re similar levels of worn out.
Good point here.
Most people don't know shit about boxing. At all. Period. - Roger Mayweather
by The Kittitas Kid on Oct 26, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
A bit harsh on Cotto?
Just reading through this thread, it sounds as if Miguel Cotto is being viewed a little harshly by one or two. Compared to some of the other jokes that are offered up on PPV and lapped up by the public (ie; Zab Judah – I will never know how/why people bought that Khan fight) Cotto is an attraction. The guy has 2 losses throughout his career – one against Margarito, which in my eyes can be scratched off immediately due to later revelations, and one against the best fighter of our generation. Theres no shame in losing to Manny, and it certainly doesnt make you a second rate fighter. Everybody else Cotto has dealt with with relative ease. In both of his losses after 6 rounds he was probably level if not ahead on the scorecards (ok, not ahead against Manny) but he was competitive. I don’t think its fair to assume he’s on the way out, I think he still deserves top level fights and will move on from this fight, if he wins, to bigger and better paydays. I would definately sign up for Cotto Mayweather, a lot quicker than floyd would!
And in response to the initial post – I like the fight. Ok, AM got destroyed by Manny, but again, I don’t mark him down for that, Manny is superhuman and I wouldnt expect anyone save Flloyd/Khan/Martinez to trouble him at all. Although he got handled easily, he was still throwing big bombs, looked game, and if he comes out swinging like that against Cotto it will be an interesting night.
It’s not a dig at Cotto, or about what he deserves or doesn’t deserve. He just looks to me like he’s lost several steps and aged considerably over the past three years. He looks slower, more tentative, gets more fatigued earlier, and he bleeds even easier than he used to. He did not look impressive in his wins over Clottey or Foreman. His ring age is pretty old considering the amount of punishment he’s taken. Part of that is he’s not a natural Junior Middleweight, he just sort of “aged into” that weight.
Margarito looked horrible against Manny Pacquiao, and took one of the worst beatings I’ve seen anyone get in awhile. He looked slower than ever, and his punches still lacked the mustard that has been “mysteriously” missing since he came out for the first bell against Shane Mosley. Manny came out for the eleventh round looking fresh as a daisy, and you could tell he was a little disturbed at what was happening, maybe thinking he’d gotten involved in some sort of a public execution. It was clear that as big as Margarito was, he didn’t belong in a ring with him. He was a punching bag in there.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
by jrok on Oct 26, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Compared to some of the other jokes that are offered up on PPV and lapped up by the public (ie; Zab Judah – I will never know how/why people bought that Khan fight)
Judah/Khan was on standard HBO.
Most people don't know shit about boxing. At all. Period. - Roger Mayweather
by The Kittitas Kid on Oct 26, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Compared to some of the other jokes that are offered up on PPV and lapped up by the public (ie; Zab Judah – I will never know how/why people bought that Khan fight) Cotto is an attraction.
Of the big-time PPVs this year, Cotto-Mayorga may have been the worst headlining fight. At least Hopkins and Dawson were relevant to their division.
I think this fight is built around hype and controversy about Margarito's handwraps from the first fight
But now, in 2011, this is a garbage fight. Two washed up fighters, using the little bit of whats left of their working brains, from taking beatings in the past now fighting each other. Neither guy was ever elite anyway. Just take a look back at each fighters last couple of fights leading up to this one, were there any great performances from either guy? No. So should I expect both of these B+ (Cotto) and C (Margarito) level fighters to come into the ring like world beaters? Think about it, if it wasn’t for the handwrap incident it would not be that big of a deal.
"Winning is Everything"
Failure is not an Option
If you're not first, you're last
Precisely.
At my signal, unleash hell.
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on Oct 29, 2011 6:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Gonna be a very short fight:
I said to a friend before Marquez-Vasquez IV that I thought the powers that be would try to get it into the 5th round so it could go to the scorecards, but that it wouldn’t go longer than 5, and might not even make it to 5. Same here. It won’t make any difference how willing to fight Margarito is/will be, the referee will stop the fight the minute he feels AM is endangered, and that’s going to come almost right away.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
Someone will get hurt
if that = a good fight.
I guess it’s possible that a very widely hated fighter could incur serious eye damage
(but I don’t really know enough about what eye damage is really there)
if that = a good fight. I don’t pay to see dogs tear each other up and I ain’t paying for this either.
But
then I don’t pay for much of this crap they peddle.
How are you Ted
Someone said you had Pnenomia? (shit spelling, you know what I mean)
by Sweet science on Oct 29, 2011 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Better, good buddy. But the energy thing is very slow in coming back. Each day I improve.
Thank you for asking.
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry
Good to hear you are getting better, Ted.
I didn’t know about this and i would like to send you my best wishes.
Get well soon and hope to see you back posting regularly.
Glad you're improving
Be patient with yourself, although it’s very frustrating not to have usual energy.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
Thanks, kiddo. Yes, that energy thing is a real wake-up call.
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry
Also hadn’t heard about this – glad you’re getting better and sorry you’ve been laid low! Pneumonia’s a tough bugger but it’s good to know you’re on the road to recovery.
"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."
by Oli Goldstein on Oct 30, 2011 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
If Margo's eye damage wasn't there
I think this would still be a tremendous fight. Different from the first. Maybe more tactical on Cotto’s part
But the eye just can’t stand up to the left hooks of Cotto can it? It will look like a chewed orange after the first three imo
That’s really what I’m picturing. Margarito wasn’t exactly avoiding those the first time they met. So what does he do this time? Hide behind his gloves for twelve rounds protecting that eye? We saw a bit of him trying the high guard against Manny, and not only did he lose every round, but he still got his eye socket broken and came out looking like he was mauled by ten bears.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
All things being equal, Manny is not Cotto.
He is a true beast. He beats the hell out of any fighter willling to fight…and guys like Hatton, Cotto and Margarito all do nothing but. And all of them have beating to show for their efforts.
Cotto and Marg just match up. Plain and simple. Cotto could not hurt Margarito bad enough to keep him off of him in the early rounds when he was clocking him at will. Margarito has a beard llike few others. And so he walked Cotto down.
In my mind and to my eye (and that of Manny Steward), Cotto’s troubles started in the very early round…when he was winning easily.
If Margarito’s eye holds up…it will be a long night. Bad and bloody.
One last thing. This may be the most exciting undercard of the year.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
His eye won’t hold up. Cotto may be past his prime, but he’s not a pittypat puncher, and that eye can’t take anything— only Mercante Jr. would let it go more than a minute after any significant action involving that side of AM’s face. Be funny/awful if that’s who the referee is.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
What the heck does the undercard have to do with anything???
Oh, right. I keep forgetting you get $0.00002 from every TR ticket sale.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
He goes to Cotto's body and stings him. Then he backs Cotto up. And you know the rest without my
spelling it out. It’s stalk, stun, and kill time.
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry
I don't mean to start an argument about the eye
but what makes you so sure that it can’t hold up, BoxAnne?
For all I know, he could have a detached retina that hasn’t properly healed and the first left hook could blind him….
But I don’t know that. I haven’t been keeping up with boxing as much as usual lately, so perhaps I’ve not read some reports that others have, but I really don’t know much about the eye. The above picture shows a deep cut under the eye (which in and of itself is not problematic) and a smaller cut over the eye. The swelling? His socket was fractured: I think that Frazier and Foreman fractured the eyes sockets of a few fighters who went on to fight again.
But I come back to the idea of one fighter who at least appears to be someone who shouldn’t fight anymore—
And another fighter who ain’t what he once was: The prognosis, to me, is not pretty. One of the two will be hurt—
Likely both, and maybe hurt in ways that show up years later. But hey, they’re fighters. I just don’t have to tune in.
You could be right, maybe he’ll be OK. Also, I shouldn’t just say “eye,” but the shattered orbital bone as well—the whole area took a huge hit. Th orbital bone didn’t just get broken, it got broken and then repeatedly pummeled. My life experience with my own, my friends’, and my animals’ injuries is, nothing broken or seriously injured ever is the same again. You don’t notice it in day-to-day normal life, but the injured area is always noticeably more inclined to pain and reinjury under stress. And there’s nothing day-to-day about what goes on in a boxing ring, where at least some injury is the norm.
I also don’t think most refs will take much of a chance with him. Such that the fight may end well before Margs is willing to quit. So I’m expecting a really short fight even though many may perceive a premature stoppage
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
nothing broken or seriously injured ever is the same again
Yes and no. A more true would be the smaller the bone structure the bigger the problem. So with the collar bone, if you break it, the bone will actually be stronger after the healing process. However, this isn’t true with some of the small bones in the hand which just become prone to the same injury. I’ll agree with you that the orbital bone would fit into this second class but just thought I would let you know about the other type as well.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Oct 29, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I broke my femur (thigh bone) when i was about 11 after being run down by a speeding van when getting off the school bus. It was a clean break and the bone had to be reset in traction before being set in plaster.
I agree with what you say because the doctor told me that the bone would be stronger than ever once it had healed. When checking the final x-rays you could see that the break area had extra thickness around it and looked somewhat stronger.
It took quite a while to get the muscle rebuilt and strength back in the leg but, to be honest, i wouldn’t say it feels any stronger than the other leg now, 20+ years later. They feel about the same, or maybe the leg i didn’t break even feels a little bit stronger, but then that could be because i have had other problems with the leg i broke (cartiliage removed, etc).
Like you say, it probably depends on the size of the bone that you break and i do also remember the doc saying that if i did break my femur in the same leg again, it would not be in the exact same spot because that spot is now the strongest part of my femur.
Glad it got better, and I take the distinction between large and small bones. Probably helped to be 11, although that sounds like a terrible experience for a kid.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
I was lucky. The doc reckoned if i hadn’t been quite fat and carrying extra packing the impact could well have killed me.
As it was i ended up KO’d and underneath a parked car. The driver was a hit and run, but they caught him eventually.
Really it was partly my fault because i stepped out in front of the bus, but then the van driver was at fault for, like i said, speeding and not stopping.
yeah
definitely his fault more. You Were extremely lucky, it sounds like. Good work on making sure you had some fat as a kid :)
As a tall guy, you gotta make the shorter guy take risks to get to you. Go through a bad neighborhood to get you.
Forgot--My point about the eye: With
someone like Vazquez I might not have known for sure but it was pretty obvious it would open up when he was hit.
I don’t feel the same way about Margarito: He might have damage that he shouldn’t be boxing with but I don’t know that he is going to open up badly as soon as he’s hit. It may turn out to be something much uglier, but I’m not qualified—
Do you see what I’m saying?
You know what did it for me with Vasquez? It was the first good picture I saw of that eye. It looked like it healed funny, and that it was pointed in the wrong direction. Looked like a glass eye. He struggled with Priolo, but if it weren’t for that eye I might have thought it was just ring rust. With Margarito, I’d like to get a similar good look at that eye.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Yeah, it was cock-eyed and the skin around it looked, well, wrong. Unfortunately Margarito walks around like Stevie Wonder now so we may never know until the weigh-in (or 24/7, although it’d be awesome if he sparred in Blue Blockers)
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Oct 28, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, it was like "I’m no doctor, but I’m pretty sure those things are supposed to point forward."
I’d like to see what the betting line does the moment he takes off those Retired Florida Grandma shades. I figure it’ll be like that climactic moment in the Sixth Sense, when Bruce Willis realizes he’s in a shitty movie.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
by jrok on Oct 28, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It was the weigh-in pics that sealed it for me with Vasquez, who, like AM, hadn’t once taken off his shades till then. The constant sunglasses on AM are sort of a tell, imo, and that’s not taking into account bone weakness/fragility of the eye socket, which likely wouldn’t show. But is there. Honestly, I don’t like him much, but I don’t think he should be fighting after that beating and damage.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
A good comparison on injuries would be Danny Romero who was never the same after having his eye socket damaged.
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry
Notice should be given
it’d be awesome if he sparred in Blue Blockers
to a +1 amusing comment.
And “uplugged the lamp….” ain’t half-bad either
Well,
that “strong” under my heading didn’t work out for Mr. Christ’s quote—
What do I do again to make it a block quote?
(I am aging and I very well might have brain damage, so take a moment and be kind.)
Hey Don, you could highlight the quote (I guess the same way you did when you made it strong?) and then click the little blue picture of the quotation marks.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Like
(I guess the same way you did when you made it strong?
this?
Yep, no problem.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Mike Jones.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Whoa. Where did half of this thread go?
All the discussion about Pacquaio, Chavez, Cotto, all the stuff about Margarito… it’s all gone?
At my signal, unleash hell.
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on Oct 30, 2011 9:02 PM EDT reply actions
I didn’t, but I’m guessing somebody shit on the fragile peace sometime last night and it had to be cleaned up.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
"didn't" delete it, I mean
Looks like everything from your picture onwards was deleted. Probably for the best. I didn’t like your picture either, but instead of deleting it I tried to cool things out.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
I thought things were cool. That was a really interesting discussion.
At my signal, unleash hell.
by Maximus Decimus Meridius on Oct 31, 2011 3:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Oct 31, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn’t be caught dead in a tie like that!
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
What about the hat?
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Oct 31, 2011 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Right guys and southpaws...
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Merle Haggard is the man.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Oct 31, 2011 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
me too
As a tall guy, you gotta make the shorter guy take risks to get to you. Go through a bad neighborhood to get you.
This whole card will be amazing
It’ll be one of the greatest boxing PPVs in recent memory top to bottom.
I really don’t care about divisional relevance or any of that stuff. Cotto and Marg are coming to go to war and that’s what I expect from them.
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