Pacquiao vs Marquez Results: Manny Pacquiao Squeaks By Juan Manuel Marquez Via Majority Decision
by Scott Christ on Nov 13, 2011 12:55 AM EST
in Boxing Results and Post-Fight Analysis
Email
Print
Three fights. Three incredibly close fights. Three tactical battles.
And Manny Pacquiao is 2-0-1 now. But Juan Manuel Marquez has his argument in every single fight.
Pacquiao (54-3-2, 38 KO) won on majority decision scores of 115-113, 116-112, and 114-114, but Marquez (53-6-1, 39 KO) was right there for 12 rounds, counter-punching Pacquiao effectively and scoring repeatedly. Bad Left Hook scored it 115-113 for Marquez. The fight was very, very close, and one thing keeps sticking in my mind.
Marquez, who left the ring and didn't speak with HBO's Max Kellerman after the fight, was told by trainer Nacho Beristain before the 12th round that he was ahead. In turn, Marquez fought tentatively in the final round. So did Pacquiao, who once again met all he could handle and then some from the Mexican star.
Those who ordered got more than they bargained for tonight. Even those who gave Marquez a greater chance than the majority did felt that he would lose, it seemed -- but it was arguable at best, and the Las Vegas crowd, at least the Marquez supporters, felt that Juan Manuel won. Perhaps, for the third time.
Pacquiao said, "It's clear I won the fight," interviewed by Kellerman. "We have to accept that my opponent is not easy," he continued.
Indeed he isn't. After these 12 rounds, Kellerman asked Manny Pacquiao if he would fight Marquez for a fourth time. "Anytime," he responded.
And after this one, at this weight, I think that if a Mayweather fight can't happen ("Let's get it on," Manny said over boos, "on May 5"), Marquez is the ideal next opponent.
The arguments are still there. Juan Manuel Marquez, at 38 and fighting "heavy," gave Manny Pacquiao the best fight he's had since their second fight in 2008.
537 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
This was not a robbery. It was just a close fight.
"You are a miserable human being." - Mike Fagan
My twitter: @TB_Money
116-112 is an insane score though
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
by SSreporters on Nov 13, 2011 12:57 AM EST up reply actions
agree
And he gave the last round to Marquez to make it that
by tacklerford on Nov 13, 2011 1:06 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Trowbridge is just as bad as they get not only in Boxing but MMA also, Trowbrridge was been involved in a ton of just horrible MMA decisions over the years also.
He scored Griffin/Ortiz II for Ortiz
And Sherk/Dunham for Sherk.
You’re not kidding.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
there are so many more also, scored Coutrue over Vera and he must love the son Ryan Couture also he scored his split decision win over Maka Watson for Ryan Couture,Bart Palaszewski over Anthony Pettis, The Almeida / Cote spilt decision was the only one to score the fight for Almeida, the Melvin Guillard / Gleison Tibau split decision scored it for Melvin, Chris Tuchscherer /Tim Hague, etc
“It’s the second robbery of the fights we’ve had, and I think this was more clear,” says Marquez.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 13, 2011 12:57 AM EST reply actions 6 recs
They fought a Marquez type fight… and somehow a judge thought that 116-112 after that? Questionable to say the least.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
I don’t understand what drives a judge to score a fight so lopsided for another fighter when clear both men gave it their all, however, one fighter’s[Marquez] light shined a little bit more brighter than the other.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
all this robbery talk is really annoying me. here's some objective data.
According to CompuBox, Pacquiao landed 176 of 578 punches. Marquez connected on 138 of 436 punches, preferring, as in his first two fights, to counter punch. Pacquiao had a 117-100 edge in power shots.
now do your work
and check compubox (or those guys with the buttons) in the previous two fights….
by Hermano Cerdo on Nov 13, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
With those fights
You also have to account for the value of knockdowns. I admit I have no idea how one would do that.
isn't a knockdown an automatic 10-8?
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Nov 13, 2011 6:53 PM EST up reply actions
Arum saying Pacquiao-Marquez IV in May. Suggests only Mexicans had Marquez winning.
"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."
also suggests that the IV fight will shatter records. lol
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 1:01 AM EST up reply actions
Awesome! I'm Mexican! And lots of other white guys!
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 13, 2011 1:02 AM EST up reply actions
Si!
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 13, 2011 1:02 AM EST up reply actions
My sentiments exactly!
"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."
by Oli Goldstein on Nov 13, 2011 1:02 AM EST up reply actions
Same here!
Still searching for an alive Dan Tucker.
I second this.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
I don't love JMM
I fukking LOVE JMM!
by Mohammedini Hussein on Nov 13, 2011 1:41 AM EST up reply actions
funny side story,
Amir Khan had Marquez up at the end of the fight on Primetime!
by abcdefghijklost on Nov 13, 2011 12:57 AM EST reply actions
Let’s all take into account that Marquez is 38 and fighting above his ideal weight, which makes this even worse……
styles make fights
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
Exactly what I said in my prediction. Marquez is always going to give Pac a tough time.
by Kory Kitchen on Nov 13, 2011 1:01 AM EST up reply actions
I hate this
This wasn’t close. Marquez won cleanly. Marquez should just retire.
Marquez won
And he won at least 4 rounds decisively.
This is a “don’t want to lose millions” decision if I’ve ever seen one.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
by SSreporters on Nov 13, 2011 1:00 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
“Maybe I retire,” says Marquez, “maybe I won’t. It’s difficult to throw everything away. It’s hard to fight a rival and the three judges.”
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
It always is mistranslated.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 13, 2011 1:01 AM EST up reply actions
that's what bothers me most about the decision
by tacklerford on Nov 13, 2011 1:08 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
When asked about the retirment he sounded frustrated, like saying boxing is just too much BS, a lot of what he said was left of by the translator. His comments were pretty much the same you hear from all fans when a bad decision is made, like why do I keep wasting my time here. He came pretty close to using those exact words.
yeah
I feel for the guy. He doesn’t deserve to not feel victory in at least one of these fights.
by tacklerford on Nov 13, 2011 1:17 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
That translator sucks. He always leaves soooo much off. I mean, I KNOW translating is not easy, but HBO needs to get a new one soon.
Bob Arum would promote Lucifer himself if he could put asses in the seats.
Agree, the one Top Rank uses (the big guy with the mustache) is even worse. It would be a shame if Marquez decides to hang them after this, for this decison.
the guy who looks like a stereotypical mexican? i’ve only seen him on Face Off and he sucked
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 1:33 AM EST up reply actions
Manny's fanbase lost tonight,
I hope there is a huge drop off
by Clove_art on Nov 13, 2011 12:59 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Not even close.
A loss would kill his ability to sell a fight. This? Hardly. It’ll be promoted easily as gritting out a win, or a controversial win if it’s a rematch.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
It also enhances Floyd's reputation as the best of our time
Whose only tough fight lately was DLH.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
Nacho excuses himself. I really think he’s become a bad trainer. Sorry.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
JMM final thoughts: “Thanks to the fans. … They knew that we won.”
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
Someone find the highlights of manny tagging Marquez cleanly
by Clove_art on Nov 13, 2011 1:00 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
He won round with flashy flurries at the end of the rounds
Many that missed and got countered
by Mohammedini Hussein on Nov 13, 2011 1:02 AM EST up reply actions
And that's what's sad.
Judges that are supposed to be impartial buy into the manny bullshit. This guys isn’t Tyson via 1980s, this guy is not Ali, no where close. This is sad. I know one thing u have to make excuses to see why manny “won”… U never had to make those same excuses for Floyd.
by Clove_art on Nov 13, 2011 1:13 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This is what the UK analysts are asking.
They. are. pissed.
Saying some of the people there are blinded by “Manny disease”.
If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants
Pacquiao was so much slower and more tentative in closing the distance. The whole fight was fought at Marquez’ pace, more so than any of the previous fights. That explosiveness which made Pac such a remarkable fighter just looks to be gone. What’s more, whereas his previous opponents since 2008 – excluding Shane Mosley – have simply walked forward with no defence, he couldn’t deal with a guy who could move laterally and actually box.
"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."
I don't get this sentiment
This fight is indistinguishable from the 08 fight in my opinion. Both fighters look the same.
disagree
JMM was moving just as well but Manny was thinking in there more, much less instinctive than 08.
by abcdefghijklost on Nov 13, 2011 1:03 AM EST up reply actions
Not at all. Marquez won at least five rounds far clearer than any of the previous fights. Watch them back. You’ll see the difference – it’s pretty dramatic.
"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."
by Oli Goldstein on Nov 13, 2011 1:03 AM EST up reply actions
and no knockdown this time
by tacklerford on Nov 13, 2011 1:10 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
pacquiao was sluggish as shit tonight. i haven’t looked at the stats but i’m sure you’ll see he threw way more in 2008 than tonight
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 1:09 AM EST up reply actions
Marquez
I feel bad for the guy. His defense doesn’t impress enough to show how much he did in the fight.
Manny did nothing at all impressive the whole fight. Marquez had to be perfect and WAS perfect. And it just sucks.
Do we need another fight like this one?
Manny/JMM 4 will be just like the first 3. Super close fight with a controversial decision. Is it possible to say there’s no drama in predictable drama?
can't say I disagree
3 fights of virtually the exact same thing.
Steve Collins is going after this result big time. Adamant that Marquez won that big.
"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."
If his opponent's name wasn't Manny Pacquaio
JMM wins by unanimous decision
I had it 116-112 for Marquez, couldn’t argue with a draw but pacquiao did not win in my opinion. No way.
Completely agree
Had it the same, could see two rounds swinging towards Pacquiao.
by Verklemptomaniac on Nov 13, 2011 1:42 AM EST up reply actions
If JMM's headmovement frustrated Pac
Thin what Floyds would have done…
by Mohammedini Hussein on Nov 13, 2011 1:01 AM EST reply actions
Floyd would shell
And look to counter off the shoulder. Southpaws can tag fighters in the shell, regardless of their head movement.
what made JMM successful against pac?
Counter-punching…..
Pac does the same thing over and over again, a Counter punchers wet dream
by Mohammedini Hussein on Nov 13, 2011 1:06 AM EST up reply actions
Yup.
But the counters are different. Shell counters aren’t great against southpaws with comparable speed. Same tactic, different style. Floyd doesn’t throw combinations anymore either, JMM was throwing counter rights and uppercuts all night. With that said, Floyd is the bigger fighter, and will certainly have the edge over this version of Manny.
The myth about Floyd not doing well against southpaws is just that...
a myth.
Guess who has the fastest and most accurate counter straight right in the bizz.
You guessed it
by Mohammedini Hussein on Nov 13, 2011 1:11 AM EST up reply actions
I said southpaws with speed
Judah has him on his heels until Judah pulled a Judah and mentally quit the fight.
But to be fair
We only have, like one example. The guy RARELY fights southpaws.
Steve Collins
looks ready to punch a hole in the earth’s heart.
by abcdefghijklost on Nov 13, 2011 1:02 AM EST reply actions
It was beyond tense… it was the best one thus far in my opinion.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
better than hopkins-pascal and klitschKO-haye? was it on free hbo or the ppv?
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 1:39 AM EST up reply actions
Is that on youtube yet
Or the net? Or wherever I can find it in the UK :)
by Sweet science on Nov 13, 2011 5:55 PM EST up reply actions
I agree that Nacho shouldnt have been telling him he was ahead BUT
winning the 12th would have only gotten JMM a majority draw.
Oh shit. They weren’t lying about Cotto vs Margarito faceoff.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
what??
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 1:09 AM EST up reply actions
ok i admit i was trolling earlier, so serious time
close fight, but even i had marquez up 4 rounds (or so) at the end of the fight. manny is about a year or two away from being shot. since he’s manny pacquiao he can probably still beat the b+ level of fighters, but his reign as p4p is coming to an end. i say give marquez the fourth fight, and have manny fight a non-bradley 140 pounder in november 2012 and retire after that
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 1:03 AM EST reply actions
Marquez is my hero
This utter bullshit… And I still feel vindicated in my impression of manny. He is a one deminsional fighter who leaves himself open to counters. Biggest robbery ever.
Marquez should not be $20 million worse off than Pacquiao tonight either...
Still searching for an alive Dan Tucker.
styles make fights
I think Manny vs Floyd is still a great fight. Floyd hates contact.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 13, 2011 1:06 AM EST up reply actions
Possibly
But this gives me a lot of confidence in Floyd in that fight. Manny is not keen on pressing the action when faced with a sharp counterpuncher.
Pac looked really flatfooted
Floyd lives on head movement and footwork. I can see him jabbing Pacquiao and countering him towards a decision.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
Indeed. Which is why he evades it better than anyone.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
Styles and Size
With those two things he walked through JMM
yeah! I'm leaning more and more towards a FLoyd win against Pac now
JMM frustrated Pac with his coutner-punching and head movement and That is Floyds Bread and butter
by Mohammedini Hussein on Nov 13, 2011 1:07 AM EST up reply actions
Time's passed for that
Should’ve happened in May 2010… Not now…
First of all, nobody's ever thought that. Ever.
You're more than welcome to #Occupymybed
She-f@&king-nanegans.
Manny lost that fight and he knew it after the 10th.
Share for share, share alike, you'll get struck each time I strike.
I think he knew it when it ended as well.
His expression right after the fight was one of “Thank God this is over get me out of here”, and his demenaor during the interview when saying he won were those of someone who doesn’t buy his own BS.
Max tried to ruin the Cotto-Margarito Faceoff.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
I watched the fight with my mate who isnt a big boxing fan and we both thought Marquez won that one. I gave it to him by a round or 2. His movement and countering gave Pac hell. I feel so bad for Marquez. He cant beat Pac unless he KOs him and even then im sure he would get disqualified or something for hitting to hard.
"A hero has faced it all: he need not be undefeated, but he must be undaunted." - Andrew Bernstein
Loved that most of the Faceoff was in Spanish. I mean, Cotto has learned English, but it’s so much better to not have to see him struggle with the language
Bob Arum would promote Lucifer himself if he could put asses in the seats.
Yes. Guys are best in their native language.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 13, 2011 1:09 AM EST up reply actions
here’s a little thing about boxing, every once in a while a boxer will come across a fighter that will outright give them trouble regardless of how much they have improved. In Pacquaio’s case, it’s Juan Manuel Marquez.
just my opinion.
agreed
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
So the UFC ME ends in an epic KO that somehow pisses people off because it was only 64 seconds
And Pac/JMM ends in a controversial decision and a very good fight is ruined.
Clay Guida vs. Ben Henderson was also epic and UFC’s FOTN but only a handful saw it live because FOX didn’t want them on TV.
Great night for combat sports.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
That sums it up in a way, I guess…
"I´ve seen the future of the whole fucking thing and it´s Big Man Clarence Clemons!"
- Bruce Springsteen
The world became a less amazing place on June 18 2011, with the death of Clarence Clemons. R.I.P. Big Man, you will be sorely missed.
Some people don´t like the saxophone, but if you can´t rock to the Jungleland solo, you are dead inside!
you really felt the fight was ruined?
People I watched were totally exhilarated and absolutely loved this fight.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
Dissatisfying outcome
I don’t see how Pacquiao ended up not losing on every judge’s scorecards.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
Seriously, people, don't buy another Margarito fight.
Guy should not be allowed to fight. Ever.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
can bob arum be removed as well?
he’s worse for the sport
by ekker3 on Nov 13, 2011 1:10 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Nothing to do with the sport. Margarito's action could've killed a guy.
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
amen
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
double faced
for someone that said it was clear he won the fight, his post-fight mannerisms said otherwise. dude looked defeated. not to mention his surprised sigh of relief when the decision was announced.
besides, didnt roach tell him he needed a knockout?
Agreed, his entire body language from the moment the fight ended was that of someone who knew he had been beaten. I feel extremely sorry for Marquez, I thought he won this won clearly.
You forgot to include
/didn’t watch the fight
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
So a guy who just went through thirty-six minutes of hell with his old rival isn’t allowed catch his breath?
by madmonkeyfist on Nov 13, 2011 2:32 AM EST up reply actions
Cotto should fight with illegal wraps this time
First of all, nobody's ever thought that. Ever.
You're more than welcome to #Occupymybed
Okay now I'm seriously amused. Rafael tweeted that he had it 114-114
But ESPN has his unofficial scorecard which has it 115-113 Pacquiao. Ummmmm
Writer at Beyond the Box Score and The Hardball Times
Pitchf/x enthusiast.
http://twitter.com/#!/garik16
sportscenter had his card 7-5 marquez
? im confused. lol
Of course he does.
He wants to see Mayweather-Pacquiao.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
I picked the fight to end in a draw, but
thought JMM won with the clean punches.
He fought the perfect fight.
HBO acting like Pac threw or landed anything in the 12th was annoying.
for the record i had the trilogy score at 2-1 for pacman. just as i had pacman winning both of hte first two fights by 3, i had jmm winning this last one by 3 (or 4 idk, my stream sucked)
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 1:15 AM EST reply actions
I would love to see a round by round comparison of all the different scorecards.
There was alot of close rounds, so I wonder which rounds were unanimous, or close to unanimous, for either guy.
"I´ve seen the future of the whole fucking thing and it´s Big Man Clarence Clemons!"
- Bruce Springsteen
The world became a less amazing place on June 18 2011, with the death of Clarence Clemons. R.I.P. Big Man, you will be sorely missed.
Some people don´t like the saxophone, but if you can´t rock to the Jungleland solo, you are dead inside!
totally. should be interesting
rafael usually tweets em out
Yeah. Not only the official judges, but also media etc.. Sometimes it seems like alot of people agree on who won, but don´t agree on that manny rounds, making the fact that they agree on the winner less of an indication of who deserved to win…
"I´ve seen the future of the whole fucking thing and it´s Big Man Clarence Clemons!"
- Bruce Springsteen
The world became a less amazing place on June 18 2011, with the death of Clarence Clemons. R.I.P. Big Man, you will be sorely missed.
Some people don´t like the saxophone, but if you can´t rock to the Jungleland solo, you are dead inside!
Pac-Marquez. Arum will use this outcome as an excuse not to do business with Floyd for at least another fight.
I agree.
he’s already mentioning the 4th fight
Let’s see if Marquez wants it first. When asked about it he said did not know, and everything else he said made it sound like he is now certain that what is the point, he can’t win by decision no matter he does, and he probably knows a KO is highly unlikely. Maybe once the emotions cool off he’ll call for it, let’s hope so.
Ha Ha
Atleast it will be easier to negotiate a fourth fight. Marquez won’t have to literally hunt down Pacquiao in his home country just to make another fight happen.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
i had it 115-113 jmm
pac looked fast and strong but it really didnt translate effectively at all. def more flash then substance.
and although jmm looked slower then he did in their previous 2, simple movement and not letting pac get off in combos ruled the day and won him the fight imo. made pac look so tentative and confused for the most part
One thing is for sure in my mind.
Manny cannot beat Floyd Mayweather Jr. I thought that earlier, and this style match-up confirms it for me. He’s too small, too porous on defense and now too gunshy when met with real counters. I hate Floyd, but I know he’ll win.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Nov 13, 2011 1:16 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
lets not forget the head movement that JMM continously frustrated Pac with
by Mohammedini Hussein on Nov 13, 2011 1:18 AM EST up reply actions
I don't. I'm as objective as I can be.
That was a beautiful gameplan by Nacho and JMM.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Nov 13, 2011 1:20 AM EST up reply actions
As a matter of fact,
I think Floyd, asshole that he is, outclasses both quite easily. I used to have it closer in my mind, with Floyd having a slight edge, but now I know my hatred clouded my vision. The man is the best boxer of the last 50 years. I hate to say it, but I think it might be true.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Nov 13, 2011 1:23 AM EST up reply actions
i think watching the fight again,
removed from its immediacy, those who had the fight for JMM, will have it even wider, and those who didn’t, much closer. this is why we can’t have nice things.
by abcdefghijklost on Nov 13, 2011 1:16 AM EST reply actions
Anyone read Skip Bayless twitter?
The guy is Joke http://twitter.com/#!/RealSkipBayless
by Mohammedini Hussein on Nov 13, 2011 1:17 AM EST reply actions
Biggest Pactard in history, ESPN needs to fire this fukking clown
by Mohammedini Hussein on Nov 13, 2011 1:17 AM EST up reply actions
They pay him to be ridiculous, it's in his contract.
I know it’s hard, but pay him no mind.
Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses. --The Knockout Mechanism.
Pactards use him as a credible "expert"
This is the guy who got angry for another “expert” calling FMJ a defensive genious.
“C’mooon” “FMJ is a complete coward, he is going to get KO’d in 3 rounds by PAC”.
I honestly don’t believe anyone would pay a guy to be so stupid and biased
by Mohammedini Hussein on Nov 13, 2011 1:24 AM EST up reply actions
no real boxing fan, or any sports fan would use him as an expert.
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 1:35 AM EST up reply actions
they do and thats the saddest part
being on ESPN gives him instant credibility.
I mean how disrespectful can you be towards a person who fought his heart out.
Bashing JMM like that….
Disgusting clown had PAc by 4 rounds, Even The worst judge wouldn’t give pac that
by Mohammedini Hussein on Nov 13, 2011 1:37 AM EST up reply actions
real boxing fans reside here, and i can guarantee you that not a single person here would use skip fucking bayless as a reference. while we are on different sides of the fanboy fence, i’m sure we can both agree that that guy is useless
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 1:41 AM EST up reply actions
robbery.. AT LEAST 7-5 marquez
no reason for a mayweather marquez rematch..
just let may take out manny and get it over with
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
Absolutely disgusting and disgracefull robbery by judges who are clearly on the take, JMM outclassed Pacman again this time even clearer than the last and still lost. I told everyone to not believe the myth about Pacman getting bigger and better than JMM and I was right. It just makes me sick that with the whole world watching he was robbed again at some point someone has to have enough of this corrupt bs in boxing it makes me sick.
"@bigfootsilva, I want to tell you a joke so funny it will make your head grow. It goes like this..Oh wait, I see you have already heard it." -Chael Sonnen
Here's one for BoxAnne...
I didn’t get a chance to reply to you in the live commentary, you said:
You CAN Say Someone Was Robbed When They Win in Fact and Lose the Decision
My question is who gets to decide what’s fact?
so does manny drop in rank?
and can he still be considered “the people’s champ” or did promoters just sell him out?
Another thing...
Marquez made the press look stupid. So of course this are gonna hide behind the judges cards. Everyone and their mother had this fight wrong.
There were people here that scored it to pac who gave rounds to Pac where he barely landed a punch
that is the definition of the “Manny disease”
by Mohammedini Hussein on Nov 13, 2011 1:20 AM EST up reply actions
you know what's ironic
you’re bitching about people being impartial when it’s not true and you counter it with your extreme view that it was a clear win for marquez and it wasn’t close at all.
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
115-113 for Marquez
At the very most 116-112 for Marquez. Either way, Pacquiao should not of been declared the victor. His post-interview with Max Kellerman said it all. His entire corner was convinced that Marquez got the win.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
A post interview
does not friggin decide a fight. It was a close fight why the hell would they already admit defeat?
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
Obviously
But Pacquiao could barely answer any questions amongst the torrent of boo’s behind him. Pacquiao won the fight by the skin of his teeth.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
...Do you watch the fights where Pacquiao wins?
He can’t speak English well regardless.
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
But he is much more ethusiasm, smiles and halmark cards
Not so much this time.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
But he has much more enthusiasm*
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
he wanted a decisive win
because he was tired of the doubts. This one convinced nobody.
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
This fight convinced everybody that Pacquiao lost.
This fight was alot closer than the second—for Marquez, yet one judge still managed to give Pacquiao the landslide victory. No way this fight was 116-112 for Pacquiao.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
so how does this rank as a trilogy for y'all?
watching the past two fights in preparation for this one i kind of got the feeling that they’re a bit overrated. great boxing matches, but pure action it does lack a bit. one thing is for sure no matter what happens Pacman-JMM IV >>>>>>> izzy-marquez IV
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 1:20 AM EST reply actions
Still behind Morales-Barrera, Vazquez-Marquez and Gatti-Ward for me.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 13, 2011 1:21 AM EST up reply actions
Great company to be in.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 13, 2011 1:21 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed
Not enough shear brutality to be above those other trilogies.
But thats the thing
Every trilogy is different. This one is different, and exciting because of it’s tactical battles. It is probably one of the greatest style clashes of all time
by Sweet science on Nov 13, 2011 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
It really comes down to preference.
A suggestion, and I feel strongly about this: Great stuff. Couldn’t ask more tonight.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
I thought this was the perfect (possible) closer
Super tense fight where both fighters respected the hell out of each others’ strengths
JMM is 2-0-1 in the trilogy for what I concern
All the other fights Pac got saved by the Flash KD’s
by Mohammedini Hussein on Nov 13, 2011 1:21 AM EST reply actions
The draw was a Pacquiao win
Judge should’ve scored a 10-6 and not 10-7 for the first fight, 1st rd knockdowns.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
However
Harold Letterman has pointed out that regardless of how many times a fighter has been put on the canvas, the lowest judgest will go is 10-7. I am not saying you’re wrong, I am only telling you what I have heard him say.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 41-0-0 (25 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
exactly my point.
it was an error only cause the judge didnt kno he can actually score it 10-6. but many judges wouldnt have give pac the 10-6 even with that knowledge.
He may be right
But on that particular night the other judges gave a 10-6:
The decision outraged both sides, but the Pacquiao camp was infuriated after learning that Clements admitted making a scoring mistake in the first round. Clements scored the round 10-7 for Pacquiao, while Stewart and Jutras had it 10-6. Had Clements scored it 10-6, as he later said he should have, Pacquiao would have won.
“Basically, I screwed up,” Clements said. "I was of the understanding that in a round with two or more knockdowns — multiple knockdowns — it should have been 10-7. I immediately gave the card to Marc (Ratner, executive director of the Nevada Athletic Commission) and said, `You don’t want 10-6s, right?’ "
Ratner said he felt the round should have been 10-6, as did Pacquiao and trainer Freddie Roach, who said he was amazed by Jutras’ score in Marquez’s favor.
Roach said he scored the round 10-6 and could not understand how Clements came up with 10-7.
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2004/May-09-Sun-2004/sports/23844652.html
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
If I was Pacquiao I would have tried to overturn it in my favor.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
ya it was an error but theres nothing wrong with giving a 10-7 for a rd with 3 kd’s. its a common practice for judges. i never found it to be that controversial.
I find it controversial/illogical
In that you stop deducting points after 2 knockdowns? That makes no sense.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
That’s only because after three knockdowns the fight is usually over.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
yes but This is my opinion
and many others. I actually give Pac the benefit of the doubt in that fight. But it was damn near a clean sweep after the first round
by Mohammedini Hussein on Nov 13, 2011 1:26 AM EST up reply actions
I had the fight scored 116-112 for Marquez, personally.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 41-0-0 (25 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
Man = the entire crowd at the fight.
Ha.
I wish the HBO cameras would have showed the faces of the Filipino fans in the crowd. I’m sure some of them left early.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
KD's are part of the fight
Flash or no, they count on the cards.
So it breaks down to:
Round 1: Unanimous for Pacquiao
Round 2: Split for Pacquiao
Round 3: Unanimous for Pacquiao
Round 4: Unanimous for Marquez
Round 5: Unanimous for Marquez
Round 6: Unanimous for Pacquiao
Round 7: Unanimous for Marquez
Round 8: Split for Pacquiao
Round 9: Split for Pacquiao
Round 10: Split for Pacquiao
Round 11: Split for Pacquiao
Round 12: Split for Pacquiao
There was 3 unanimous rounds for Pacquiao, 3 unanimous rounds for Marquez and all 6 split rounds went to Pacquiao in diferent combinations.
"I´ve seen the future of the whole fucking thing and it´s Big Man Clarence Clemons!"
- Bruce Springsteen
The world became a less amazing place on June 18 2011, with the death of Clarence Clemons. R.I.P. Big Man, you will be sorely missed.
Some people don´t like the saxophone, but if you can´t rock to the Jungleland solo, you are dead inside!
I agreed with Max Kellerman
The first round I felt neither man did enough to get the edge. I scored it a 10-10.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
well... almost everyone.
:D
Nothing about this was a surprise to me.
JMM was never out sized and he does all the technical things right.
He shut Pac down by stepping to the left all night. Slowed it down to his level just like that.
I might have missed this
But did they have a 10 count for Joe Frazier before the fight started?
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
yea and buffer cried while intro'ing smoking joe
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
by Eddie Gonzalez on Nov 13, 2011 1:25 AM EST up reply actions
who wouldn't?
R.I.P. Smokin’ Joe
"The next time, I send him to the morgue."
by HandsOfStone98 on Nov 13, 2011 1:28 AM EST up reply actions
smokin’ joe is one of those fighters that pretty much every generation of sports fans will know. i had never seen a fight back in 2000 but i knew who he was. definition of legend
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 1:29 AM EST up reply actions
seriously? buffer usually puts on fake sorrow when doing the 10 count, and immediately goes into a jubilant READY TO RUUUUMBLE. i don’t think i’ve ever seen him genuinely sad by a fallen warrior. not that he’s heartless or anything but i’ve never seen him is all
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 1:28 AM EST up reply actions
he obviously choked up
im sure a lot of people did
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
by Eddie Gonzalez on Nov 13, 2011 1:30 AM EST up reply actions
What matters more?
If you think that landing a larger overall percentage of punches and timing your man with counter shots is enough to win you a close and competitive fight, then Marquez got robbed. If you believe that persistent aggression throughout is enough to balance out getting caught with hard counters, then Manny won. The fact of the matter is, Marquez kept up with his style of counter-punching and not following up with many hard combinations. As Emanuel Steward said at the end, you need to come and “take” a championship fight—it’s no time to be cautious, especially in a fight this competitive (and no matter if you’re a Pacquiao or Marquez fan, you cannot deny that it was competitive throughout). I don’t think Marquez did enough to counterbalanace Pacquiao’s continued aggression, and I do think Manny won a slim majority of the rounds, 7-5.
And it seems to me that if Marquez fans should be angry at anyone, it is Nacho Beristain. Why in the world would you tell your fighter he is winning in the later rounds—especially in a fight this close? It’s unspeakable. While Manny did not overwhelm JMM, I think he did just enough to win what turned out to be a very slim decision. But I’m sure this is going to be debated at length, just like their other two fights were. No matter where you stand, you can’t deny that they’ve been competitive—probably one of the most two-sided trilogies of all time.
"The next time, I send him to the morgue."
by HandsOfStone98 on Nov 13, 2011 1:27 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Re: "Take a championship"
I hate hate hate this saying. All it is is a crutch for judges who’d rather not pay attention for the first four rounds, before they are forced to recognize that damn, there is a fight going on. (and look at that — 2 of the 3 judges has Manny winning round 2, a round that virtually everyone including Hurrld had for Marquez).
by schraubd on Nov 13, 2011 1:29 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
aye
we used to call this the sweet science.
by abcdefghijklost on Nov 13, 2011 1:32 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Just expressing my opinion and quoting a Hall of Fame trainer. If you’re against that phrase, then you obviously fall in with the camp that believes Marquez did enough to win. Each side has a legitimate argument I feel, and I was just making mine.
"The next time, I send him to the morgue."
by HandsOfStone98 on Nov 13, 2011 1:32 AM EST up reply actions
I agree, but it's a silly notion... But apparently true in this case.
U can outbox the champ, u have to knock him out.
The “you have to beat the champ to be the champ” is not meant to be a standard. It´s rather an observation made that close rounds tend to go to the champion/more famous boxer, not an idea of how it should be. Then people started turning it in to an excuse and a standard, which it never should have been.
(Also, before all of that, it was about Ali being striped of his title without losing it. Don´t know if the saying was around before that or not.)
It is a saying that is being used as an excuse and it needs to go.
Also, i´m not sure I give the fight to Marquez. It had alot of realy close rounds and I lost track of my score pretty early (it was around 6 a.m. here when the fight was going down) so I wan´t to rewatch it before I decide how I score the fight.
"I´ve seen the future of the whole fucking thing and it´s Big Man Clarence Clemons!"
- Bruce Springsteen
The world became a less amazing place on June 18 2011, with the death of Clarence Clemons. R.I.P. Big Man, you will be sorely missed.
Some people don´t like the saxophone, but if you can´t rock to the Jungleland solo, you are dead inside!
The whole “take the championship” thing is BS. You win by making the opponent fight your fight and if you get the champ to fight your fight and get countered all over the ring then you did your damn job.
'Ello G'vnor!
"Take the championship"
How about “Winning is winning”?
I agree with your statement.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
by Ryan Tical on Nov 13, 2011 1:33 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The “take the championship” is indeed a horrible idea when used as a standard. There is a scoring criteria. If you win acording to that, you win the fight (landing more, better, cleaner, harder punches is still the most important thing).
"I´ve seen the future of the whole fucking thing and it´s Big Man Clarence Clemons!"
- Bruce Springsteen
The world became a less amazing place on June 18 2011, with the death of Clarence Clemons. R.I.P. Big Man, you will be sorely missed.
Some people don´t like the saxophone, but if you can´t rock to the Jungleland solo, you are dead inside!
Why in the world would you tell your fighter he is winning in the later rounds
Because he was…it was still up to Marquez to keep fighting, which he did. I understand the mentality of not telling a fighter he is up in the cards but JMM is a smart boxer and he knows whats up. He may have backed off a little in the 12, but he won that fight. At the VERY worst it was a draw.
Nacho says to his fighter that he is winning. Freddie Roach says to his fighter that he is behind. Both trainers told the damn truth.
Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses. --The Knockout Mechanism.
Even if he is winning, I still don’t feel that it’s the right call. Not denying that Marquez is a smart boxer, and you make a good point that he knew “what was up.” But if your fighter is in such a visibly close and competitive match, then you shouldn’t say anything that would even remotely cause him to take the foot off the gas. It’s debatable whether that had an adverse effect on him. But what isn’t debatable, I feel, is the fact that he did not go after Pacquiao in the later rounds as much as he did in the middle ones.
"The next time, I send him to the morgue."
by HandsOfStone98 on Nov 13, 2011 1:37 AM EST up reply actions
Could be that he is 38 and he just was tired. He made sure to stay focus, not get caught, and make Manny pay when he jumped in. The 12th round was in no way mirrored the type of coasting DLH did (he was practically doing cartwheels to stay away) in the 12 against Tito.
Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses. --The Knockout Mechanism.
Well nothing can compare with what Oscar did at the end of that one, that’s for sure. Anything further on what Nacho said is just speculation, only JMM and his corner truly know what the mentality/strategy really was.
"The next time, I send him to the morgue."
by HandsOfStone98 on Nov 13, 2011 2:11 AM EST up reply actions
It wasn't close...
Even then, if u can’t hit the guy, why should u win anything? This is not a walking match it’s a boxing match. And ur right about nacho. But even in the ending rounds I don’t think manny did enough to adjust to Marquez counter punches.
I feel u have to win the majority of the round to earn it. Not beat along line of hittable opponents, and signing a contract with Nike to do it. This was robbery. There are zero highlight of clear effective punching from manny.
Objectivity is your friend.
We saw the fight we wanted to see. It was close as hell. Those that say it wasn’t (either way) are obviously pulling for one guy or the other.
Amir khan had manny losing...
Did he want to see that fight? He had Marquez loosing in a 7rd ko.
by Clove_art on Nov 13, 2011 1:37 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sadly
It depends on what you want to see from a fighter. Khan likes counter-punching. I watched this fight with the sound off, and I have no issues with JMM taking a two round victory. However, I can’t really fault 114-114 or 115-113 for Pac either. 116-112 for Pac is just silly.
It depends on what you want to see from a fighter. Khan likes counter-punching.
Since when does Khan like counter punching?? He is someone who throws many punches and boxes behind the jab, trying to keep things at long range
by Sweet science on Nov 13, 2011 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
Not by his style
He has stated his affinity for counter-punchers in the past.
If there was any doubt left
Marquez was great, but Manny’s pretty close to the end now… I saw glimpses of it as early as the Clottey fight, if you call that a fight… The cramping issues with the Margs and Mosley fight, and now this…
First of all, nobody's ever thought that. Ever.
You're more than welcome to #Occupymybed
His weight jumps
May be killing his mobility. Against slower/bigger fighters, it wasn’t an issue, but JMM is far too well matched with him not to notice.
Then maybe he should drop in weight
For all the advanced strength and training exercises and magic juice, he sure is breaking down faster than his counterparts on that mythical pound for pound list. All of which are his senior.
Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses. --The Knockout Mechanism.
pacquiao has taken a lot more damage than probably any p4p champ. pacman has been in so many wars while floyd hasn’t taken a clean punch in like a decade (exaggeration). pacman is a warrior, his steep decline was bound to happen
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 1:45 AM EST up reply actions
I wonder how much the weight jump factors too
even given how strong he has looked at 140+
well the usually when changing weights ruins a fighter is when they’re constantly dropping back down. after 135 pacman only “dropped down” to fight hatton after the welterweight fight against ODLH. pacman has been steady at 144 for 2 years now. unless you mean all the draining he did in his early career
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 1:48 AM EST up reply actions
Pac need to make the Mayweather fight
at 147 and come in at 144-145. He fights much better when he is light.
That's true
but JMM has been in ALOT of wars himself and he is older. Yet he still is going hard with the best of them and not showing that type of decline. Manny needs to drop down in weight or stay the hell away from high IQ, technical boxers. Those types of boxers only give you angles.
Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses. --The Knockout Mechanism.
pacman has been in wars since before his first fight with JMM, and they’ve been “more” brutal. JMM’s most hellacious fight in terms of brutality was his first with Baby Bull who as we all know has the punch of a 2 month old baby. Manny fought a legit Morales at 130, a legit barrera at 126, a legit (but scarred) cotto at 147, goddamn margarito at 154. jmm has only become this action star recently. pacman has been an action star since the first time he entered the ring
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 1:54 AM EST up reply actions
jmm has only become this action star recently
That’s nonsense.
If you’re new to JMM then, you better hit the youtube/google/etc… up and get acquainted.
Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses. --The Knockout Mechanism.
He has a point.
Ever since Pacquiao has became this superstar in the sport— Marquez has been right there behind him. After Pacquiao steam rolled past his last 6 opponents[not counting Marquez], Marquez has always been “that guy”.
Tonight Marquez proved that once again he is “that guy”. The crowd knows it, Pacquiao knows it.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
i don’t ever remember a jmm fight being celebrated for brutality or action before the first fight with pacman. probably because he was largely ignored before then, but my point stands. he had never been in a FOTY contender before pacman, and even then he’s only been in FOTY contenders on a yearly basis since 07 VS barrera
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 2:27 AM EST up reply actions
To be fair....
Every boxer is useful and entertaining against other formerly useful and entertaining boxers that a promoter knows may get you to tune in. I suppose you knew this already.
Wear something sexy to my funeral.
by Pops Daniels on Nov 13, 2011 1:38 AM EST up reply actions
There were many close rounds, but
the clear rounds (and clean punches) belonged to Marquez.
another failed predictions by nostraRoachy
Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses. --The Knockout Mechanism.
Score cards...
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
Marquez Won that fight.
Corrupt judges anyone?
by Bichorudo on Nov 13, 2011 1:42 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Sucks
but it seems that way.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
no it doesnt
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 1:45 AM EST up reply actions
It doesn’t seem like the judges were corrupt? …okay.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
Inept is better….
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
inept at it's worst, wrong at it's best
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 1:55 AM EST up reply actions
Not corrupt
Just coasting. It’s so easy, especially early in a fight, to just let rounds float to the favored fighter. Not much is happening, which means nothing unexpected is happening, which means the expected is happening, which is means that the favored fighter is winning.
It takes something spectacular, or just time, for the mind to break out of that pattern. And here, it gave Manny a bunch of rounds he didn’t deserve.
no just a close decision
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
116-112 isn't close.
116-112 tells me that someone was looking into the future and that NOBODY, not HBO, not the state of Nevada want to squander away a potential Mayweather vs Pacquiao fight.
Vegas and Bookies would be broke with lint in their pockets if Marquez came out with the win.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
I disagreed with that card too.
But c’mon, this is boxing. I disagree with scores a lot. This is a lot of sound and fury for a very close fight that was scored a majority decision.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
I feel ya'.
But this is a Pacquiao fight. With the way most people treasure Pacquaio like he’s God’s gift to the sport, he’s not supposed to lose— however, tonight he did.
I expect this amount of backlash, if not more in the following week.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
i’m sorry but you’re clear bias against pacman isn’t helping you. looking over your top 5 you’re #1 guy is pacquiao’s biggest press rival, and your last two guys are pacman opponents (one of which was obliterated by him). while i myself am a pacman fanboy, i can readily admit that this was an extremely close fight that i personally gave to JMM by 4 rounds. this was close, not a robbery, not corruption, but a close decision that you happen to disagree with. nothing more, nothing less
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 2:17 AM EST up reply actions
Isn't helping me?
I don’t have to make a case against Pacquiao when it’s clearly he was bested by Marquez tonight. Any other day you’d have a point.
However, nothing in your statement even justifies a 116-112 for Pacquiao. You try to make a point by first calling me bias because of my like for Mayweather then admit to being a fanboy. Really?
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
i’m saying that you’re harping on this decision as if it’s worse than williams-lara. 116-112 is not even close to being the worst card of the year, much less of all time. you’re going way into hyperbole about the judging in this fan because of your fandom of pacman rivals and your obvious distaste for pacman. OBJECTIVELY this was a tense, close fight that shouldve ended with JMM’s victory, but it wasn’t so. were the judges wrong? probably yeah. were the judges corrupt, is there a mass conspiracy that only allows for pacman to win? absolutely not.
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 2:23 AM EST up reply actions
I wasn't trying to compare it to other terrible decisions
I was merely exercising my opinion that 116-112 for Pacquiao—in a fight where he didn’t come off as dominating as he normally does… against an opponent[Marquez] that was supposed to be older, fatter and out-classed.
Tonight— that certaintly wasn’t the case.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
agreed on that
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 2:27 AM EST up reply actions
as for my fanboy statement, i was bringing up the fact that despite my obvious love for pacman i can see this fight objectively
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 2:24 AM EST up reply actions
There was nothing objective about what you've said.
Your fanboyism has overshadowed your ability to remain objective.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
so the fact that i scored the fight for JMM despite my love for pacman isn’t objective? if i wasn’t objective i would have had pacman winning, but i don’t. i dont’ see anyway that pacman won the fight by more than a round. that’s objective
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 2:28 AM EST up reply actions
What did you score the fight?
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
i'm not good at math and my stream constantly cut out
but i had marquez up by 4 rounds. i had manny winning at least 4 rounds from what i remember, but not many more than that if any more.
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 2:56 AM EST up reply actions
rounds 1, 9, 10, maybe 11, and another early round in which not much happened i gave to pac. the rest was jmm
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 2:57 AM EST up reply actions
Okay.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
I disagree with your statement that Pacquiao was clearly bested
it was a damn close fight. virtually all of the rounds could have swung either way. anything from 116-112 pacquiao to 116-112 marquez isn’t really that crazy at all.
I can see Marquez fighting Khan now…
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
Anyone else pretty sick of HBO's commentary team?
So pro-Pacquiao it’s not even funny. And this is odd given how one-sided Lampley was for the Cotto fight for Miguel.
Showtime has surpassed them so much (even with Gus) .
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
Lampley sounds like he hates boxing
At least the undercards.
The thing is I don’t know who they hire. Brian Kenny is not with ESPN anymore so he’s a good shout.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
Joe Tessitore
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
He's hot and cold
Sometimes he gets way too overly dramatic for his own good.
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
fuck. no
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 1:56 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not a Tessitore fan, but I'll take him over JL
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
Tarver
Just for the hell of it
First of all, nobody's ever thought that. Ever.
You're more than welcome to #Occupymybed
Lampley needs to go. He radiates dickishness and insecurity.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
He reminds me of that douchebad Dan Patrick.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
Lampley, Merchant and Letterman need to do.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
go*
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
I don't mind Ledderman, but the others, yes.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
lederman is fine ... if they can get kellerman to tone it down i don't mind him staying
the rest need to go
Lederman is insane
Didn’t he also score Williams/Lara for Williams?
I respect your opinion even though it's wrong.
He disagrees with you, therefor he's an idiot
Makes sense.
"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4
by RogersPark Kris on Nov 13, 2011 2:04 AM EST up reply actions
no but he scores fights very wonky
Like the second JMM vs pac fight, he gave PAc a damn near clean sweep.
In the Mayweather-Castillo he had it 115-111 when the whole press row scored it for Mayweather.
He scored this fight clearly for Pac….
There are so many diffrernt times I can’t recall right now
by Mohammedini Hussein on Nov 13, 2011 2:07 AM EST up reply actions
he gave pacman a 3 point lead in the second fight. how is that a clean sweep?
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 2:17 AM EST up reply actions
merchant just straight up hates boxing now imo … real cynical of the sport in all his comm now
lamps has gotten unbearable now for me as well, he’s so loud and thinks he’s an expert on the sport now.
tonight to me he seemed to miss call many of the punches by both guys .
Merchant has left his love for Boxing
And entered the realm of the “GET OFF MY GRASS” syndrome.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
if they need an athlete commentator: hopkins. i’m not too familiar with lead commentators, but bob costas owned as an nba lead commentator. he’d probably horrible as a blow by blow guy, but if there’s anyone who can put out some eloquent shit like classic lampley it’s costas. the “other” guy, ehh keep max. he’s only been there for a few years, and he’s constantly in merchant’s shadow. let him keep the third guy spot with a new crew and let’s see how he does
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 2:01 AM EST up reply actions
Bob Will never let Pac fight Mayweather now
by Mohammedini Hussein on Nov 13, 2011 1:47 AM EST reply actions
God help us if he see Bradley vs Pacman.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
Who doesn't?
Oh right, Timothy Bradley
First of all, nobody's ever thought that. Ever.
You're more than welcome to #Occupymybed
Beware of Megamind.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
Amen, brotha'.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
lol @ people bitching
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
Back up the entire fight,
let manny control the pace of the fight, out throw, and then be happy to land a counter here and there…
Yeah, what a travesty of a decision!
Can we please get a fighter who isn’t afraid to throw down with Manny and actually try being the aggressor for a change? We all now Floyd won’t.
"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4
by RogersPark Kris on Nov 13, 2011 1:50 AM EST reply actions
let manny control the pace of the fight,
Are you being sarcastic?
out throw
Which isn’t the least bit relevant.
Can we please get a fighter who isn’t afraid to throw down with Manny and actually try being the aggressor for a change? We all now Floyd won’t.
I’m sorry you don’t like it when guys exploit your favorite fighter’s weaknesses.
lol
It was a pretty easy decision, and all the butt hurt going on is pretty hilarious.
"The advanced metrics guys do not like Derrick Rose very much." - Bills Simmons podcast 2/4
by RogersPark Kris on Nov 13, 2011 2:01 AM EST up reply actions
Thought-provoking, to say the least.
by bachwards on Nov 13, 2011 2:01 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
The sport is not called ‘throwdown’ it’s called Boxing. There were plenty of exchanges in the pocket and you can’t say JMM was getting out of harms way when they occurred.
Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses. --The Knockout Mechanism.
Not very familiar with the sport, are we?
Most people don't know shit about boxing. At all. Period. - Roger Mayweather
Show be tell. - Ann Wolfe
by The Kittitas Kid on Nov 13, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
I'm going to start deleting posts that are obvious trolls.
Just saying.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
I actually only gave Marquez 2 rounds in this fight, so sorry people. Look at the end result, who looked more like the beaten fighter? Marquez had red welts all over his face, Pacquiao only really had that blood lip and the cut over his eye was from a headbut. Pacquiao had a better percentage of power punches landed. Stop it with all the Marquez bandwagon jumping. It’ a like a lemming-effect going on here. The champ did his thing and came out on top, no robbery here.
Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses. --The Knockout Mechanism.
by battlestar on Nov 13, 2011 1:56 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
judges shouldnt be swayed by blood and bruises.
besides, manny was tow-up after the fight
Well your opinion isn’t the end all and be all… and in fact it is a poor reflection on your ability to judge fights that you only saw 2 rounds for Marquez. In fact it is rather obtuse like.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
Sorry, no defending a 10-2 Pacquiao card. No offense.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 13, 2011 1:58 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
That's ridiculous
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
I actually only gave Marquez 2 rounds
This is not the best way to lead off your post if you want anyone to take anything you say seriously.
I'm Serious Enough
I had Prescott winning the fight handily until he got stopped, am I wrong there? I got two eyes and I saw the champ winning. Marquez seemed hurt on a couple of ocassions after some Pacquiao combinations, I never saw Pac-Man hurt just stunned a few times.
Look at the end result, who looked more like the beaten fighter? Marquez had red welts all over his face, Pacquiao only really had that blood lip and the cut over his eye was from a headbut.
And by that logic, Clottey should have won because his face wasn’t the least bit harmed and Pacquiao seemed like someone just took a cheese grater to his face.
The champ did his thing and came out on top, no robbery here.
You must be on Arum’s payroll.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
by Ryan Tical on Nov 13, 2011 1:58 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
if marquez would've won, he most likely would've retired
but i just dont think its possible now with the bad taste in his mouth. im pretty sure he pushes for a rematch. (and even if he wins, i dont see how it helps him – people already acknowledge that he mastered pacquiao.
Yes three fucking close fights
is mastering pacquiao. If people are going to complain about people being in one extremity then don’t argue in the other one.
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
let me rephrase
he’s mastered the art of fighting pacquiao.
okay that i'll agree
World Series attitude, champagne bottle life, nothing every changes so tonight is like tomorrow night.
200 millions go away if marquez won that fight
Obviously they dont going to let that happen
close fight
had marquez winning, i admit bias, i am a marquez fan, but i thought that counterpunching and landing more effective shots is what makes the sweet science sweet.
could’ve gone either way. i am actually interested to see marquez vs. floyd again, as this has cast a little bit of doubt on how well conditioned marquez was in taht fight, he looked a lot faster and stronger in this one. granted, it would still be a floyd victory, floyd’s built to neutralize technical punchers.
You cannot walk if you fear to crush the ant in your wake.
im not even mad
so used to his bs decisions its like im inmune to it
im FURIOUS especially since it was a dude that was rematching to avenge previous botched scores by vegas judges.
I feel sorry for Marquez because I thought he got the job done when most people didn’t even though hed be able to compete (I’m waiting to see what Ariza says about his early KO prediction), but being a boxing fan I’m used to this mess like ulises so I’m not particularly mad. Now this was the first time my wife watched a fight with me and she IS majorly pissed, she gave me the spiel about why do I wacth a sport with corrupt officials (granted her first reaction to a perceived bad call is that someone was paid off).
THe more I think about it, the more I think Marquez won that fight
Me > Ben Henderson
@KrimsonTVN
DIA2ill.com coming soon....
Everyone is on the same boat with you.
Medal of Honor: Frontlines style.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
Which one?
The one where we got blown up and have to swim back to shore and rescue soldiers from one beach to the next?
Me > Ben Henderson
@KrimsonTVN
DIA2ill.com coming soon....
everyone is not on the same boat
stop making it seem like everyone scored this fight for marquez. it was super close. nearly every round had an argument for either fighter. volume of punches landed, aggression/moving forward, percentage of punches landed … pacquaio landed more punches overall, was the aggressor most of the fight, but marquez landed a higher percentage of his punches. as far as who hurt who … nobody was really hurt this fight, and both fighters got in some good shots.
i didn’t score this fight round by round … but i’m not convinced at all that marquez deserved to win this fight. i think people are overreacting because they were expecting pacquiao to blow him out and it ended up a close fight.
So I guess Floyd's got no one to dance with on May
Sergio Martinez?
First of all, nobody's ever thought that. Ever.
You're more than welcome to #Occupymybed
@ 154?
I like the way you think.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
Martinez if game
and will cut to make the fight, but even he said that 154 is bad for him.
Floyd is a prize fighter
He wouldn’t make much money off Martinez…so there is no point.
Thats me and Marco Antonio Barrera in the profile picture.
by Guillermo Ponce on Nov 13, 2011 2:09 AM EST up reply actions
not going to happen.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
Too much risk, not enough money?
First of all, nobody's ever thought that. Ever.
You're more than welcome to #Occupymybed
As good as Martinez is...he isn't that popular among the casual public.
If Martinez got another 2-3 great wins then I can see interest build for Martinez for a fight with Mayweather.
But right now…Martinez isn’t that well known…Mayweather wants alot of money to fight, wouldn’t make that much money to fight Martinez.
Thats me and Marco Antonio Barrera in the profile picture.
by Guillermo Ponce on Nov 13, 2011 2:16 AM EST up reply actions
I'm as big of a Pacquiao fan as any other Filipino out there...
But Marquez clearly won this fight, hands down. He got robbed.
by SeanLikesRice on Nov 13, 2011 2:11 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I respect that!
I have seen many Pac fans defending the win with crazy idiotic explanations on twitter.
Like this guy, look at his retweets. http://twitter.com/#!/migzhaleco
by Mohammedini Hussein on Nov 13, 2011 2:13 AM EST up reply actions
It's really disappointing
I think all the other Filipinos like me out there need to swallow their Filipino pride and look at this more objectively instead of being blinded by his nationality.
by SeanLikesRice on Nov 13, 2011 2:17 AM EST up reply actions
if manny takes the mayweather fight...
before a potential marquez rematch, its another slap to marquez’s face.
and its not like i wanna see another manny/marquez fight.
if mayweather bows out, i wanna see ghost or rios fight him.
Mayweather might not even accept Manny's/Arum's offer.
Seeing how Mayweather already beat Marquez. Therefore, forcing Pacquiao to take the fight with Bradley or Marquez….again.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
That works too.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
I dunno about that. We haven’t even seen Guerrero or Rios past 135, much less all the way up at 147.
i prayed for marquez before the fight
i didnt want him to get hurt badly and get his career ended. i guess thats why im not sad about the decision
I know he won that’s good enough for me
One thing I think we can all agree on is that Marquez is a great great fighter. One for the ages. Just think about all of the great fights he has given us. Who would have thought six years ago or so that JuanMa Marquez would give hardcore fans more great fights than any other fighter of his generation. And frankly, I don’t think he even has much competition in this category.
Marquez is a fucking hero.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
Its unfortunately
that only this generation will know that
i mean kids 10 years from now will only see the 2 losses on his record to pac
by ulises solis on Nov 13, 2011 2:19 AM EST up reply actions
not in Mexico
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
There is a great argument that he is now Mexico’s greatest fighter of this era.
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
I would certainly agree with that
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
I wonder if "The Islander" would agree with that.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
no. el terrible is this generations greatest mexican fighter hands down
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 2:29 AM EST up reply actions
true that
people here will never forget
by ulises solis on Nov 13, 2011 2:30 AM EST up reply actions
uhh there are plenty of fighters who have given more “great” fights than jmm. jmm might be technically a lot better than those dudes, but jmm’s action quality has been overstated a bit. he’s been an action star for about 4 years tops
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 2:20 AM EST up reply actions
As in be haunted by the loss?
I doubt it. I favored Mayweather before, and I do a little more now. But I think Paquiao has little to bounce back from. I think he and his camp will find their ways to interpret this.
But I still think it’s Mayweather’s best fight and must happen for boxing and the legacies of both men, win or lose.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
er haunted by the near-loss, I meant
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
Why dislike the guy?
You can dislike the decision without disliking the fighter. Mayweather is one of a least likable fighters on earth, but you like him? He dodges fights, he talks shit, and he acts like a child.
He hasn't dodge anyone.
Thats arum psyco-babble. Fighting less works. He never looked as bad fighting anyone as manny looked tonight or even Mosely.
He looked bad
Against Castillo, since he lost that fight. He dodged Cotto, Williams, and Margarito in their primes, even though he has the talent to have beaten them all. I don’t listen to a thing Arum says, this is simply the fights that were intriguing during PBF jump in weight. Guys called him out and he always had an excuse.
Yes I agree a out Castillo,
Even in at cottos best, he was still getting dropped by second level contenders, Williams? C’mon, and margarito was fighting with loaded gloves and never looked the same sense.
by Clove_art on Nov 13, 2011 2:30 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not my point.
I am not saying that Floyd wouldn’t have beaten those guys. I am saying that Floyd sits on his ass and waits for guys to lose so he can say they weren’t good enough to begin with. He had the talent to take those guys out, and it would have done a huge service to his legacy had he stepped up when those guys were on a tear. NOBODY wanted to fight Margarito, Williams, and Cotto when they were on top, and Floyd was no exception.
So wait.....
Who is promoting Cotto and Margarito? Bob Arum.
Bob Arum and Floyd hate each others guts.
When Bob Promoted Floyd he refused to let Floyd fight De La Hoya because ODLH had split with Top Rank.
Bob does everything in his power to make Floyd look bad.
Making up million excuses and so on
by Mohammedini Hussein on Nov 13, 2011 2:37 AM EST up reply actions
FACT!
Hasn’t Arum gone on record saying that Mayweather is the greatest Boxer since Ali?
…or am I just imagining things?
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
So many people are brainwashed by this weasel Bob Arum
Pac want the fight, Floyd want the fight.
Bob Arum is the one ducking Floyd.
Bob Arum absolutely refuuused to make the Cotto vs Mayweather fight when Floyd was at JWW.
Bob Arum has admitted to fixing fights in court.
he has been investigated multiple times.
it’s just funny how Pactards defend him when he’s stealing money from Pac and draging him down
by Mohammedini Hussein on Nov 13, 2011 3:00 AM EST up reply actions
Who has defended Arum on this forum?
Promoters are weasels. The guys at FMP are no different. If Arum calls you out for dodging his fighters, you simply agree to the fights in the media and watch Arum squirm. You don’t allow guys to call you a coward on TV then not jump on them unless you don’t want the fight. He fought Baldomir instead of Margarito because of Haymon.
When was the last time floyd fought a Top Rank promotion fighter
tell me who… I’m waiting
by Mohammedini Hussein on Nov 13, 2011 2:38 AM EST up reply actions
????????????????????????
JMM was with Golden boy my friend, He signed with TR to get the rematch with pac which Golden boy wouldn’t give him
by Mohammedini Hussein on Nov 13, 2011 3:56 AM EST up reply actions
My question still stands.
Floyd Vs. a risky fighter? As much as you guys seem to hate on Pac for having his opponents “made” for him, when was the last time Floyd took on someone dangerous?
And I'm not saying Pac is innocent either.
It’s obvious that they have set Manny up with “name” fighters in order to establish him as p4p. It’s also obvious that they have chased Floyd’s fallen foes in order to make Floyd look bad. The problem I have with Floyd is that he has ll the talent in the world, but his last 10 fights look every bit like a tailor made Arum “legacy” setup as anything Pac has done since JMM 2. Take a real fight man.
It happens
Still, the greater point it that the Margarito fight WAS on the table, blood fued and all. Haymon has admitted to passing on it because Baldomir had a belt and Margarito “had four losses”. Even though consensus was that Margarito was the more difficult fight.
I don’t see how fighting the lineal champ (at least when the lineage is clear) ever constitutes a duck.
Then let me rephrase.
He sidestepped a legitimate challenge to go after a belt. A belt that belonged to a guy that he knew had no chance of beating him.
It is funny cus everybody said Floyd was ducking Baldomir too
guess who started that rumor huh.
And maybe you should read what I wrote before, Bob Arum and Floyd has bad blood between each other due to Floyds split with Arum. Negotiations between them two at that time was virually impossible.
Offering 8 mil for the Margarito fight was pure unadulterated bullshit that Bob and his lying face pulled.
Floyd wanted to fight a prime ODLH but Arum refused.
Bob Arum is protecting his fighters and baby them.
just look at Cotto. Are you fukking kidding me? Mayorga as a title defense? JCCjr?
by Mohammedini Hussein on Nov 13, 2011 4:10 AM EST up reply actions
Yes
I know they have bad blood. It still doesn’t answer the question as to why Floyd hasn’t fought anyone perceived as a real threat since 2003. Even if you take the Arum fighters out of the equation as fallout from their blood feud. His record is scattered with has been fighters and tin belt holders.
Mosley was top 5 P4P when Floyd fought him, and some even had him as the number one welterweight. Now if you want to say he was too old that’s fine, but that was nowhere near the consensus view prior to that fight (as opposed to the Pacquaio-Mosley bout from a year later).
True
Mosely was coming off of a good showing against Margarito.
then who has Pac fought who is "legit"?
Cotto gets wrecked physically and mentally by Margarito and in many peoples opinion, losing to Joshua Clottey.
The next year he fights Pac in a bullshit catchweight for a paper belt.
Clottey? c’moon the guy didn’t even try…
Margarito? who got destroyed by Shane Mosley gets to fight for vacant paperbelt at a catch weight.
Margarito absolutly weight drained …
we can go on and on and on
by Mohammedini Hussein on Nov 13, 2011 4:28 AM EST up reply actions
Hardly anyone.
Recently? Hardly anyone, as everyone has had to make concessions to get fights with him. However, that wasn’t my argument.
Maybe this will refresh your memory
As someone who travels constantly on business, I can tell you that I dont care to do so unless I think there is money to be made. And lots of it.
I doubt the 80 year old Arum likes it at his age unless:
December 2, 2009
“Bob Arum flew to the Philippines Wednesday bringing along with him a contract for the proposed Pacquiao-Mayweather boxing fight for Pacquiao’s approval. The fight is set for March 13, 2010 but Pacquiao has yet to agree.
Manny Pacquiao’s promoter Bob Arum flew to the Philippines Wednesday to bring an offer the pound-for-pound king ’can’t refuse’.
The offer calls for the Filipino boxing icon to face Floyd Mayweather, Jr. on March 13, 2010. The fight was first penciled for May but due to the candidacy of Pacquiao for congressman in the Philippines, Arum believes that the fight schedule should be moved forward to March 13. The new date will give Pacquiao enough time to campaign in his congressional district.
There is no question that the Pacquiao-Mayweather match is going to happen next year as the undefeated American boxer has already agreed to fight Pacquiao and expressed his readiness to clash on March 13 instead of May 2010.
The contract was agreed to by Mayweather’s representatives, but the boxer has yet to sign. Arum was to present the proposal to Pacquiao, but there are no guarantees he will agree.
Still, the fact Arum would make the trip to the Philippines to try and get his fighter to sign for the bout was an indication that the mega fight was moving forward. It would match the two fighters regarded as the best pound-for-pound in the world in a bout at 147 pounds, the AP report added.
That the fight was not signed was not Arum’s fault.
So give it a rest.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
What had Margarito done up to 2006 that made him the consensus top challenger? And the lineal championship is not equivalent to run-of-the-mill ABC belts. I might be able to understand accusations of Floyd ducking Margarito in 2007 or 2008 (though I’m inclined to disagree with those too) but I sure don’t understand them for 2006.
Margarito was percieved as a menace
after the Cintron, Gomez, and Clottey fights. Not exactly murderers row, but if you can teleport back to 2006, he seemed like an up and coming animal in the division. He was dismissed after the Williams fight. Then Williams was avoided.
one of Bobs many lies
Bob is an compulsive liar and never gets called out on them.
I mean the 100 mil lie he pulled? a guy like that you can’t trust for a sec
by Mohammedini Hussein on Nov 13, 2011 4:31 AM EST up reply actions
on which point?
There is no refuting that Margarito had the WBO title. However, I don’t trust a think Arum or Haymon say. I simply look at records. While I may get a bit caught up in my dislike for Mayweather, I respect his skill, and just wish he would take the best fights out there, instead of claiming to be the best of all time from his couch.
Youggunzvt- fanboy
Sorry dude. Those rumors are from arum. I work in advertising and in an industry of bullshit I can sniff it out. This is branding and arum bullshit. And by some of the pre fight prediction, a lot of people bought into that bullshit.
Speak for yourself.
Floyd doesn’t need your help boosting his ego. I have no love for arum. However, if Arum says “Hey Floyd, you are ducking Margarito and Cotto”, and Floyd doesn’t go after those fights. What is he doing? Take that fanboy name calling somewhere else.
he takes a bigger payday fighting better competition. As far has his health (and maybe bank account ) is concerned it worked.
And maybe I am Floyd fanboy, but i also have facts and logic on my side.
You have your logic
and your opinion of what the facts are, must as I have my opinion of the facts. The FACT is, we are dealing with Haymon and Arum, and the exceptionally volatile and fragile egos of everyone involved in making these fights. Margarito was on the table and Floyd balked to take Baldomir instead (2006). Cotto called him out in the ring on national TV, and Floyd didn’t say word one about getting at him.
Yes
I never subscribed to the A>B, B>C therefore A>C theory anyway… Sure the fight has lost the luster it would’ve had had it happened last year, but I still want to see the fight…
First of all, nobody's ever thought that. Ever.
You're more than welcome to #Occupymybed
yes
Manning out for season + Texans "improved" defense = Texans AFC South Division CHAMPS
by battle axe of doom on Nov 13, 2011 2:20 AM EST up reply actions
Tomorrow I will watch this fight with my Argentine grandfather, who is the most anti-mexican guy I know (not in a racist way, but in a competitive way). He’s had a long career in LA talking major crap about Chavez, De la Hoya and the Mexican national soccer team.
If he scores it for Marquez, then there will be absolutely no question in my mind.
I think even if you give manny the close rounds marquez still won it by 2 or 3. 116-112 makes me want to puke. My wife works at the MGM, I’m glad she got out of there before the fight ended.
http://fistonchin.com http://brightlightssports.com
I'm pretty sure even he'll lean towards JMM though...
http://fistonchin.com http://brightlightssports.com
you cant blame manny
dude remains classy, its his promoters that ruined him.
"ruined him"? Please.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
I wouldn't say ruined.
A tad bit tarnished; yes.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
I don't even understand your argument, frankly.
You think this is going to sink him with his fans? You think the Philipines will abandon him now? I think you’re crazy.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
no filipinos will continue to love him (and rightly so). i just think that the majority of non-filipinos won’t be as big of fans as they once were (unjust, considering manny had no say on how the judges determined teh outcome)
He'll take a dent from this, but "ruined" is an entirely different story
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
I agree, wholeheartedly.
I never had a dislike for Manny Pacquiao— just his handlers.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
His handlers have made a small Filipino the face of boxing
and an enormous global brand….with endorsement contracts and appearance fees that will far outlive his boxing career.
Bastards.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Yeah at least he didnt celebrate all over the place like an hypocrite
by ulises solis on Nov 13, 2011 2:21 AM EST up reply actions
because lord knows boxers who probably should have lost a very close fight never claim they won after a fight.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on Nov 13, 2011 2:25 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Bob Arum: “Haremos otra pelea en mayo. No quiero que los aficionados mexicanos me maten”.
“We are going to do Marquez vs Pacquiao IV in May, i dont want that mexican fans kill me”
better pay marquez 10 millions
or whatever arum was supposed to pay him for the 4th fight if he won the 3rd one
by ulises solis on Nov 13, 2011 2:42 AM EST up reply actions
Fights I now want to see more than PBF vs Manny
Manny Vs. Kirkland
PBF Vs Martinez
Manny Vs JMM
I wouldn't go so far as to give the fight to Floyd before it happens
Different styles of counter-punching. Manny has the right weapon in his arsenal to beat the shell, and Floyd has a tendency to try and spin guys instead of moving them off in space. Manny lands huge punches when guys try and change angles in an exchange. I don’t put a ton of stock into JMM= Manny, PBF > JMM so PBF>Manny. Floyd allows aggressive fighters to catch up to him and he makes them miss in the pocket. JMM keeps range in the center of the ring, and he backs up to set his counters.
Sickness?
I am giving a simple " I don’t know the future, but I know boxing" statement. I spent two summers in AAU tournys fighter Philly kids that would shell all day and try to counter. The are measured and leveled with a jab feint, left hook. Obviously, none of those guys were Floyd Mayweather, but the style is the style.
can anyone confirm...
that roach told manny he needs a knockout?
i remember reading that during the chat.
Pacquiao nearing the end ?
Not so sure about that. Maybe. I was worried about what he might have left after the Margarito fight, going toe-to-toe with Antonio like that. This is the second fight in a row that Pacquiao looked less than stellar against a guy who moved backwards. I repeat, a guy who moved backwards.
See, I don’t want to take this performance away from JMM by saying that Pacquiao isn’t quite the same, physically. I think this outcome came down to the following:
A) Some guys just know how to fight other guys: No matter what the record reflects, JMM has Pacquiao’s number. He sees things other fighters don’t, and he can exploit them. It’s not about size, power, or speed. JMM can read Pacquiao like a book.
B) Pacquiao’s own inability to know what to do against a guy who starts moving backwards. We saw it against Marquez, we saw it against Mosley, and to some extent, we even saw it against Cotto. I was simply at a loss as to why Manny couldn’t just cut the ring-off an opponent obviously on the retreat. Instead, Pacquiao just followed him around and ate the occasional pot-shot counter in the process.
C) Pacquiao the boxer. One of the best things I’ve heard regarding this fight came from, ironically, the guy some people want to blame for the outcome of this fight: Nacho Beristain. His philosophy was that this thinking Pacquiao actually wasn’t as dangerous as, in his words, “wildcat” Pacquiao whom he perceived as far more unpredictable. I felt Pacquiao was thinking too much in there tonight, wanting to counter the counterpuncher, hence the tentativeness, the hesitation. Just as Marquez played Floyd’s game in 2009, this version of Pacquiao played Marquez’s game, and well, was taught a lesson.
I scored it 114-114. Pacquiao landed more, but Marquez controlled the fight and showed that he could always, always fight on even terms with Pacquiao.
+1
Always intelligent insight, sir.
BTW, I specifically asked Roach two weeks before the fight that, all things be equal, what was the one technical issue/problem that Marquez posed that concerned him most.
His answer was prescient. He say JMM had been saying all week that Manny does not like being attacked….. and that the opposite is true; that Manny loves to be attacked.
Roach’s concern was that Marquez was planning to do the opposite of what he was saying…….which was make Manny chase/hunt him down. It turns out that was exactly what he did.
What did not happen is what Roach said he would do; prepare Manny to fight a target moving back and away. I’m not suggesting that it was Freddie’s fault. He may have tried.
But no matter. Major props to JMM, wim or lose. His plan was tight and exceuted beautifully. He definitely took the last round off…so I suspect (I couldn’t hear live) that he unwisely took Nacho’s advice too literally.
When you run back an interception don’t take chances and don’t ever start coasting until you cross into the endzone; especially if you think the referees have been rough on you al season.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Thanks for the compliment.
Roach’s comments are interesting. Truth be told, I’ve always liked Freddie. I used to hang around Wild Card all the time and exchange stories with him. But I can’t help but think that he’s been caught up in Pacquiao fever as well. He’s a straight shooter a lot of times, but he BSes a lot too, and I wonder if the line between truth and falsehood has begun to blur even for him. I know that sometimes the smack talk coming from Freddie is a psychological ploy, but you know, I think it’s also reflexive of what he really believes about his fighter. Simply put, he’s overconfident when it comes to Manny’s in-ring abilities. Pacquiao’s flaws, at least in Roach’s eyes, have diminished to the point of being negligible when that’s anything but true.
As for Ariza, you know, I hesitate to put labels on just about anyone, but this guy is a certified sleazebag. I mean really, it’s amazing how quickly his ego has grown to gargantuan proportions. The things that come from this guy’s mouth…unbelievable.
Camp Pacquiao has gotten increasingly, well, crazy, over the years. It’s not an environment I care for. I don’t care how well of a supposed multi-tasker Pacquiao is. That sort of chaos takes its toll on you, and I’m not sure Pacquiao is as focused on improving his craft anymore. Physically (and even this is disputable…) he may be prepared, but mentally, there’s something missing. The focus, the desire, it’s not quite the same. Camp Pacquiao has long since “Gone Hollywood” as they say, seeming to substitute style for substance, flash for fundamentals. Pacquiao’s deficiencies remain obvious: An absence of fluidity between offense and defense, he has no inside game, ignorance about ring-cutting, etc… And I wonder if at this time in his life, at his age, and with all that he’s got going on, whether or not he has it in him to commit himself to his craft and pick up these skills. I suspect not.
In a perfect world, Camp Pacquiao takes the same attitude they did after Morales 1 and rededicate themselves to improving, to learning new aspects of the craft that make Pacquiao a more well-rounded fighter. In a perfect world, they move forward from this experience humbled and open to growth.
In retrospect, with the exception of “Herediagate” (the ludicrousness of the whole affair seemingly now coming into full ugly view…), I can’t help but admire the way the Marquez camp comported themselves leading up to the fight. They respected Pacquiao’s camp, were modest in their predictions, worked hard on conditioning and strategy, and executed brilliantly. All the props in the world to them. Juan Manuel and Nacho are all-time greats. No question.
Serious props to JMM
I clapped as he exited the ring and cheered for him as he passed by. Beautiful fight. Beautiful plan, well executed.
I agree once again on Ariza, Freddie probably drinking a bit too much cool-aid, and Manny’s many distractions interefering with a full commitment to his craft.
Ariza, for all the good he has done, should put a lid on it. He is all over the place, sounding off incessantly and more often than not contradicting himself within days. No wonder Manny throws phones at him. I’m beginning to think he should be fired. This cramping issue falls into his bailiwick and it is an issue that was reported in this past camp just a few weeks ago.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Okay-- where to start.
A) Some guys just know how to fight other guys: No matter what the record reflects, JMM has Pacquiao’s number. He sees things other fighters don’t, and he can exploit them. It’s not about size, power, or speed. JMM can read Pacquiao like a book.
It’s not even the fact that Marquez has Pacquiao’s number— Max Kellerman said it best, it’s too bad he had to repeat two times before anyone even acknowledged it. “Marquez was the last guy to fight Manny Pacquiao since 2008.”
After Marquez in 2008, Arum made damn sure he had Pacquiao in every advantageous position possible. The percentage of people that gave up on Marquez winning due to his weight increase obviously were coasting on Pacquiao’s past achievements and actually believed Pacquiao’s last six fights, excluding Marquez, were something of legend.
B) Pacquiao’s own inability to know what to do against a guy who starts moving backwards. We saw it against Marquez, we saw it against Mosley, and to some extent, we even saw it against Cotto. I was simply at a loss as to why Manny couldn’t just cut the ring-off an opponent obviously on the retreat. Instead, Pacquiao just followed him around and ate the occasional pot-shot counter in the process.
I’ll do you one better, sir. Pacquaio’s own inability to know what to do against a Boxer who throws offense equal to his own, not only that but moves and throws. Each time I saw Pacquiao throw one of his unorthodox combinations— Lampley was quick to praise Pacquiao’s footwork as if he was Goku fighting the Ginyu Force. Marquez had an answer for every one of Manny’s attacks.
C) Pacquiao the boxer. One of the best things I’ve heard regarding this fight came from, ironically, the guy some people want to blame for the outcome of this fight: Nacho Beristain. His philosophy was that this thinking Pacquiao actually wasn’t as dangerous as, in his words, "wildcat" Pacquiao whom he perceived as far more unpredictable. I felt Pacquiao was thinking too much in there tonight, wanting to counter the counterpuncher, hence the tentativeness, the hesitation. Just as Marquez played Floyd’s game in 2009, this version of Pacquiao played Marquez’s game, and well, was taught a lesson.
Agreed.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
Well, it’s hard to say whether someone has someone else’s number based off of just one fight. But after the second fight, well, I pretty much thought that to be true. Marquez’s sense of timing, his tactical brilliance, his courage, and his imperturbability all facilitate the landing of those hard, accurate combinations, and specially that counter right hand. It doesn’t have to be powerful, it just has to land.
You’re right about Marquez’s offense. And that’s always kind of been my argument against guys who pick Floyd to beat Manny best on the “Floyd is a better boxer than Marquez and Marquex outboxes Manny every time” logic. They’re different kinds of offenses. Mayweather is a sniper. Marquez is a disciplined counter/combination puncher. Does this mean I don’t think Floyd would beat Manny? Not necessarily. I just think that styles make fights and Marquez ‘s disciplined, smart, accurate, diverse combination punching gives Pacquiao hell. Punch variety. That’s what I wanted to say. Marquez’s punch selection is magnificent.
Nacho’s words turned out to be prophetic. It was painful to watch Manny looking for the counter against Marquez of all people. That’s like going into a fight with Rocky Marciano and saying, “You know what, I think I’m gonna brawl with this guy.”
The Missing PPV Numbers
It’s currently 3 AM EST and the PPV numbers for Pacquiao-Marquez still haven’t been released. I am thus forced to conclude that it bombed and that HBO is no longer interested in covering up for Arum’s PPV flops.
by bachwards on Nov 13, 2011 3:03 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Here's one to chomp on....
According to resale marketplace @TicketsNow, boxing fans have purchased 87% more tickets to this Saturday’s Pacquiao vs. Marquez fight than the Mayweather vs. Ortiz bout on Sept. 17.
Additionally, the Pacquiao fight is commanding nearly 42% more on average per ticket:
$1,049 – Manny Pacquiao vs. Juan Manuel Marquez – Nov. 12, 2011, MGM Grand Garden Arena
$610 – Floyd Mayweather vs. Victor Ortiz – Sept. 17, 2011, MGM Grand Garden Arena
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
If they haven't been publicized within the normal two weeks
I will not only be the first to say. I will ask every source. I always do.
And not just Arum, but Taffet himself.
In the meantime, why don’t you get us the copy of the HBO authorized release on the other fight. In fact, why don’t you find it.
Then get back to us.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Flame wars and trolling will result in banning.
Only warning.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
The atmosphere was insane inside the MGM Grand, probably the best sporting crowd I’ve been a part of. Great fight, like the vast majority of the crowd i had it clear for Marquez though.
Win or lose it was an outstanding performance by JMM, everything that makes him my favorite fighter was on display.
by quadlaser on Nov 13, 2011 4:43 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Remember the Bud Schulberg effect?
People say it was close when that people was expecting Manny would annihilate Marquez, and still you give rounds to Pacman even when Pacman wasnt answer his own expectatives. And when you didnt expect Marquez to endure Manny`s power, speed, and double-armed power, still say its close and took rounds away from Marquez when he is in command, at his pace and in his distance. I had Marquez winning a very clear decision.
I was in a bar and all the people were just expecting Michael Buffer to say Marquez had won. And people went crazy when they heard “And still, champion if the world”
Also confirmation bias.
Where someone is watching Marquez win rounds they didn’t think he would win, then continue to look for things in later rounds that Marquez is doing well in order to give rounds him and confirm that they are correct. Same goes for Paq, as you said. People cannot believe that Manny can lose the fight, so they literally refuse to see the rounds that he is losing, because they are only watching for the moments when he fights well. It’s a subconscious condition, and it’s why fans with a dog in the fight are rarely able to be objective.
I think there’s something to this. When a guy exceeds all expectations, as Marquez did last night, there’s a tendency to go with him. It happens and is natural. I think that’s where a lot of the ROBBERY! talk comes from. I could name a lot of worse judged fights this year, which is no badge of honor, but this was a close fight.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 13, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Did you watch the fight in HBO or Primetime(UK)
The prime time commentaters were getting it wrong, half the shots they called were blocked by Pacquiaos gloves or elbows.
If you watch it back on HBO you will see that Manny did win, he landed more according to compubox too.
It's what I don't understand
There were 5 clear rounds where Marquez was landing the cleaner shots on Pacquiao; then there were a lot of times where Pacquiao side stepped or caught a lot of the punches with his guard, gloves, or elbows. Those rounds were the close ones, and could have gone either way.
"You can have the knowledge that a tomato is a fruit, but it takes wisdom not to put it in a fruit salad." Jerry Reynolds
by kingsfan300 on Nov 13, 2011 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
Robbery!!!!i was 100 percent sure Marquez will beat Pacquiao and i even had my money on him and im a boxing fan for 2 years but i had dedicated most of my time in watching this amazing sport but the refereeing and judging in the last year was terrible! And all of you boxing experts saying that Marquez gonna get KOd and that he lost the first two fight and even now that he lost the 3rd one and that he is drinking his piss and god himself wont save him got all wrong! Please now just give Marquez all the credit
wow, you bet money on a guy who lost a close fight and you’re certain you were robbed. No emotional bias there.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 13, 2011 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
I really want to see Marquez/Morales at 140. Even if its not the right weight. That fight would be awesome.
Yeah me too. Would start slow, I expect, and then pick up around the fourth or fifth when one of them gets aggressive.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 13, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
As a fan of Pacquiao
I would like to say thanks to the judges for their incompetence :D
Just this once though.
by TheMysticalNinja on Nov 13, 2011 1:39 PM EST reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bad Left Hook
Related FanShots on Bad Left Hook
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
