Pacquiao vs Marquez: The Post-Fight Report Card
Nick Foxx checks in this evening with his report card from last night's Pacquiao vs Marquez III card.
MANNY PACQUIAO
First of all, let me point out I thought Manny won the fight, seven rounds to five. I won't make an argument here for the decision, because I know I'm not going to persuade anyone who thinks otherwise. But Manny did what he had to do for the "W," realizing he could not outbox Marquez nor hurt him consistently enough to finish him, and relying instead on outworking his older rival and playing the role of the aggressor.
Having said that, I feel Manny clearly overtrained for this fight. In previous camps, we all heard about how he was mailing it in until the last two weeks at the Wildcard, and then he would turn it on and by fight night would be a lean, hungry thoroughbred just chomping at the bit to run. In comparison, the lead-up to this fight indicated that Manny was peaking way too early, with Alex Ariza saying on the second episode of 24/7 that "he wished the fight were tomorrow," a full eighteen days before fight night. That comment raised a serious red flag in my mind, and it was borne out last night when Manny looked drained entering the ring, unhealthily sweating, and during the fight, when he was constantly beaten to the punch by a man over whom he had all the physical advantages. But Manny won, so he passes this most difficult of tests. I don't think anyone can say with a serious face-Skip Bayless, are you listening?-that Floyd is scared of fighting Manny. That concept has always been ridiculous to me, and now looks even moreso. Grade: B-
JUAN MANUEL MARQUEZ
Marquez elevated his legacy with his performance, proving that he should be considered not just a Hall of Fame-level fighter, but perhaps deserves mention among the all-time greats, at least the Mexican ones. If you don't think he belongs with Chavez, Morales, and Barrera now, then you never will. But in my mind, he's proven that he's a very special, very serious fighter that embodies the height of professionalism both in and out of the ring. No one adapts better mid-fight than Marquez -- not Floyd Mayweather, not Sugar Ray Leonard. In addition to the Pacquiao fights, consider his wins against Casamayor, Barrera, Juan Diaz, and Katsidis. Marquez had trouble early in every one of those fights, and he was able to make adjustments such that he had the upper hand by the end. But do I want to see a fourth fight against Pacquiao? No. Grade: A
MIKE ALVARADO
The last few major PPV undercards have all produced at least one hellacious war (Vazquez-Arce on Pacquiao-Mosley, Morales-Cano on Mayweather-Ortiz, and Linares-DeMarco on Hopkins-Dawson) and last night was no exception, with Alvarado and Prescott engaging in an engrossing slugfest that was all Prescott early on, and all Alvarado late. I think many boxing fans considered Alvarado a product of Top Rank hype given his uninspiring competition and sordid background entering the contest, but he proved all his doubters wrong, showing tremendous courage in the face of a physically superior opponent who was punching ferociously in the first half of the fight, weathering the storm and eventually turning the tables when Prescott's stamina failed him, taking the Colombian to "uppercut city," as Max Kellerman put it. That's a place Prescott won't ever want to revisit, as he ended the fight out on his feet, in the arms of Jay Nady. Alvarado deserves a title shot, and Bradley-Alvarado seems like the obvious fight to make. Or maybe Rios-Alvarado. Grade: A+
BREIDIS PRESCOTT
For the same reasons Angulo failed last week, Prescott failed last night. He gassed himself trying to KO Alvarado, even when it was apparent that Alvarado wasn't going to go that easily. Then he engaged in a phonebooth war despite having most of his success jabbing and throwing rights from range. Finally, when he was hurt, he clearly had no idea how to grab and slow down the fight. It's back to the drawing board for Prescott, who has now lost to Miguel Vazquez, Alvarado, Kevin Mitchell, and Paul McCloskey. The KO win against Amir Khan recedes even further into the past. Grade: D
TIM BRADLEY
He got an easy assignment and he did what he was supposed to do. The assignment was crappy and proved nothing, but you can't blame the student for the quality of the test. Bradley looked fresh and powerful next to Casamayor, but Casamyor looked only a little better than James Toney did against Denis Lebedev, an old man who had no business being in a professional prize ring at the top level anymore. Grade: B+
JOEL CASAMAYOR
I admit I have been a fan of "El Cepillo" for a long time now, since his wars with Diego Corrales, Acelino Freitas and Jose Luis Castillo way back when. I made a bundle on his "upset" of Michael Katsidis a few years ago, which was probably his last legitimate victory. He looked decent losing his lineal lightweight crown to Marquez in 2008. Since then, his performances have ranged from desultory to just plain awful. Last night was no exception. It was like the worst moments of B-Hop-Jones II all rolled into one performance. He grabbed whenever there was a chance he was going to be hit, used his head as often as his once great straight left, and hit low with obvious malicious intent. Hang ‘em up, Cepillo. You were once a proud champion and that is how I will remember you. Grade: F
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i cant agree with you more about pacquaio finally someone gets it right thank god
by thekid100 on Nov 13, 2011 7:04 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I had the fight 9 rounds to 3 Marquez last night. After watching it again this morning I scored it 8 to 4 Marquez. And I was looking to give Pacquiao rounds. But I just couldn’t. Why? Cuz he didn’t deserve them. I’m not into that giving a fighter rounds just cuz I think I should be. Either he wins them or he doesn’t. And last night Pacquaio didn’t win any more than 4.
And as for the Pacquiao over training excuse. Well it’s just that. An excuse. And it’s a weak one. Pacquiao has been in the ring about 60 times. He has an All Star trainer, training him. I’m pretty sure they know how to guard from over training. There’s no excuse regarding last night. Pacquiao was just in there with a better fighter
All of it. Gimmie, gimmie, gimmie. I want it all.
by Eugene Banks on Nov 13, 2011 8:16 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
I like this writer. Only thing is that I'd give Prescott a higher grade. Man, he was game in there.
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry
I agree. He did turn up, shame his ring generalship comes up with an unclassified grade.
Still searching for an alive Dan Tucker.
Agree as well
A “D” seems harsh for someone who was 2 minutes away from winning the fight.
Prescott, who has now lost to Miguel Vazquez, Alvarado, Kevin Mitchell, and Paul McCloskey.
Also, to be fair, the McCloskey fight was debatable. It was close and some thought Prescott deserved it, IIRC.
by Matt Mosley on Nov 13, 2011 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
Prescott deserved the W against McCloskey IMO. Most watching in our live thread agreed.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 13, 2011 10:36 PM EST up reply actions
I don't understand why people are so angry about the decision
shit was close and I would have been fine with either of them winning.
the point is it always goes to Paquaio
by Dirk Thrust on Nov 13, 2011 10:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The grades for Prescott & Alvarado are a joke. An A+ is WAY too much credit for a guy who was a minute from losing the fight. Granted he showed a lot of heart and balls, but A+ is overvaluing his performance. Likewise a D for a guy who controlled much of the fight and conversely was a minute away from a victory that would have been his signature “boxing” performance. Comparing him to Angulo is ridiculous. Angulo punched himself out in 2 minutes. Prescott was gassed in the closing moments of a 10 roiund war. Not even close.
was gonna make a comment
but then this guy pretty much said everything i was gonna say
in a meaner way than i would have said it lol
i was actually impressed by prescott’s work last night. he just got taken out after he was gassed in the last round of a fight he was VERY active in and winning by a lot.
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
by Eddie Gonzalez on Nov 13, 2011 9:48 PM EST up reply actions
we just think about grades differently
but if a guy shows tremendous heart and balls to come back against someone who is clearly physically superior to him to score a career-best last-round TKO in a fight he was a minute from losing and doesn’t deserve an A+, i don’t know who does
Yes we disagree
We are all entitled to our own opinions. However, an A+ for me would be a fighter who dominated start to finish vs. a world-class opponent. I wouldn’t ignore 9 & 1/2 rounds of a war and give the loser (who controlled much of the fight) a D and the winner (who managed to make a nice, late comeback) an A+. This is similar to last week, when as a knee-jerk reaction, Angulo got As (for heart) from some people & Fs (for conditioning/stamina/strategy) when in actuality his grade was somewhere in between (C/D range).
and as far as manny marquez
i dont think manny overtrained at all. thats a shit excuse. he got beat by a guy who may have his number. timing>speed in the ring and marquez had it. that on top of manny potentially losing a ever so slight step (marquez has as well) made this fight closer than a lot of people (myself included) ever thought it would be, hats off to marquez for doing what many thought was impossible
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
Timing beats speed is right
and executing a gameplan beats furious flurries. Marquez returned EVERYTHING, and Pac didn’t have an answer.
If Bad Left Hook had the fight 115-113 Marquez then BLH can't score boxing rounds.
I was at the fight and I had it 116-112 Pacquiao. The mostly Mexican audience believed Marquez won as he did MUCH better than expected. I re-watched the fight and still have it 116-112 with PAC winning rounds 1-4, 6, 9, 11-12. Marquez did not close strong, maybe because of age. Glen Trowbridge and Harold Lederman both had it 116-112 as well. None of the judges scored it as a Marquez win so I just can’t see the outrage over the decision.
That's your opinion
Personally I find myself agreeing with Scott’s cards most of the time. I think he does a good job of stripping away the extras (emotions, hyperbole, network’s investment in a fighter) you might be influenced by when listening to an HBO or SHO broadcast, so I have respect for his score. Plus you can’t ignore the large sample of media scorecards that Ring compiled. 20 is quite number for a sample size.
If Bad Left Hook had the fight 115-113 Marquez then BLH can’t score boxing rounds.
Well a lot of folks had it similar. Many didn’t. Can’t win ’em all!
None of the judges scored it as a Marquez win so I just can’t see the outrage over the decision.
None of the judges scored Williams vs Lara for Lara, either, so while I don’t agree with your reasoning, I do agree with the last part. I can’t see the outrage either, unless one is truly convinced that it was a legitimately crooked, bought-off decision.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 13, 2011 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
I scored it a 114-114 draw...
and like KidSleez says, I think Scott does a terrific job of scoring fights objectively. As for the way Harold Lederman scores fights, that’s an entirely different story. The majority of the time, my card and his do not see eye to eye. As for the outrage over this fight, I’m not too upset; it was a close fight with a lot of close rounds; 116-112 Pacquaio isn’t too egregious, and neither is 115-113 Marquez. That’s just the way this sport goes sometimes. This was by no means a robbery.
Lederman has… I won’t say a bias, because that’s a loaded term, but he has a notable preference for aggressive fighters. He admits it, and the HBO announce team even talked about it at one point. It’s not good or bad, it is what it is.
by Verklemptomaniac on Nov 13, 2011 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
Except that he is too stupid to realize that sometimes fighters are being effective being aggressive…
"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."
hahahaha
Harold Lederman works for HBO – Manny is one of HBO’s cash cow’s. If you look at the reasoning behind his scoring and still agree, then you cannot score a fight
by Sweet science on Nov 14, 2011 8:30 AM EST up reply actions
On first watch, this afternoon, I don't get the Manny "won on aggression" argument
Maybe a few repeat viewings will change my mind, but it seemed to me that he wasn’t very aggressive at all. Yes, he was “coming forward” the whole fight, and sometimes throwing his half-assed jab, but that’s not the same as forcing the action.
Maybe a few repeat viewings will change my mind, but it seemed to me that he wasn’t very aggressive at all.
Sometimes just the act of coming forward and being the man to initiate the action, which he often was, is enough for those who favor aggression. It’s not the worst thing to favor.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 13, 2011 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
Scott, I've never really understood the difference in effective aggression and clean punching.
Don’t the kind of go hand-in-hand? How can you have one without the other?
It’s great the big fight drew so much traffic to the site, but I’m looking forward to things settling down again. I’m pretty sick of the “it was a robbery” talk. Worse yet are those claiming that somehow last night was a black eye for boxing. It seems MMA fans (not Brent) often look for any possible excuse to label a boxing match a sign of the sport’s ruination. Call me a curmudgeon, but I’m looking forward to getting back to balanced discussion with people I trust, rather than reading threads and deleting comments that start with sentences like
“If you don’t see that was a robbery you know nothing about boxing!”
or
“This again proves boxing is a sham and MMA is the sport of the future!”
I’m exaggerating perhaps, but not by much.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on Nov 13, 2011 11:40 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, I kind of agree...
I’m all for new people on the site, and certainly for new fans of boxing, but I enjoy the good, educated, open-minded discussions this site normally fosters. I’m especially sick of hearing the word “robbery” thrown out there whenever someone disagrees with a decision. Sometimes, it’s just a very close fight, and different people see it different ways. That was the case last night.
As for the MMA thing...
it’s not like they don’t have questionable decisions too. The same commissions that oversee boxing oversee MMA. I don’t see why fans can’t just accept both; it’s worked for me (and many of my friends).
as an MMA fan
you are not exaggerating. One of the ways MMA has been sold is by claiming it doesn’t have any of the problems of boxing, which obviously sends the message that boxing must have problems (it does but not to the level that many MMA fans think).

Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 14, 2011 12:35 AM EST up reply actions
(obviously, a joke)
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 14, 2011 12:35 AM EST up reply actions
I try to stay away from the “boxing vs MMA” thing (I’m a fan of both, for different reasons) because it seems fruitless, but I agree with you that it would be nice to move on and let the dust settle just a bit.
Last night, while reading, and yes, continuing to contribute to, the threads on the fight, I found myself waiting for one of the BLH writers to post something new, just to get on a different track.
I have some reservations about these grades also, but this article was a nice to see.
Overtraining
Yeah, I thought Manny was doing too much training but come on these guys are professionals and should know how to prepare. Let’s not detract from Marquez great effort. At 38, he did all he could do to win except finish stronger which I blame his corner for. There’s no question JMM deserves mention in the same breath as Chavez,Morales,Barrerra etc.. He has consistently demonstrated why the Mexican champs are among the best in boxing history. Pacman gets a C for his performance in this fight.

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