Mayweather Overtakes Pacquiao: Bad Left Hook Boxing Rankings for Nov. 14
by Scott Christ on Nov 14, 2011 7:22 AM EST
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We've got one big change this week in the welterweight division, and a couple minor changes here and there.
Click here for the full rankings!
Welterweight
Headline says it all: There's a new No. 1 in the division, and it is undefeated Floyd "Money" Mayweather, who bumps up from No. 2 after Manny Pacquiao struggled on Saturday night to eke out a razor-thin, passionately-debated majority decision win over lightweight champion Juan Manuel Marquez.
This is not meant to be some big shot at Pacquiao, for those who aren't regular readers and don't realize we try our very best to not play into the "WHO DO YOU LIKE, FLOYD OR MANNY, IT CAN ONLY BE ONE BECAUSE THE OTHER IS EVIL!" crap. These are two great fighters.
But Mayweather hasn't had a fight like Manny had last night, and even though Floyd is older than Manny, one has to wonder if Pacquiao's greater number of career fights, and more important his greater number of tough fights where he took damage haven't made Manny, physically, a little older than Floyd.
Right now, I just can't see keeping Manny ranked No. 1 in the division. Doesn't compute for me. The top dog is Floyd.
As for Marquez, I've chosen to keep him ranked at lightweight, where he remains No. 1 and the recognized Ring Magazine champion. (By the way, I've toyed with the idea of making a totally pointless Bad Left Hook Blog World Championship and starting with everything vacant, and then "sanctioning" championship fights as they come along. This would not at all be meant to be taken very seriously, but if a magazine can do it, why can't anyone? Maybe someday I'd even send out belts. It'd be as legit as the WBB.)
I don't know if Marquez will go back to 135, where there isn't a lot waiting for him unless he were to fight Erik Morales, who wants to move down in weight and go for a title in a fifth weight class, or unless he wants to face Brandon Rios, which would be a very attractive fight for fans. He may try for a fourth fight with Pacquiao, try to pick up a different belt at 140 (or 147, I guess), or even retire at age 38 feeling he's got nothing more to prove. But for now he stays where he's been. If I ranked him at welterweight, I think I'd put him No. 3. I don't necessarily believe he'd beat a 165-pounds-on-fight-night Victor Ortiz (the current No. 3), but then that's a whole other ordeal.
Junior Welterweight
Mike Alvarado (32-0, 23 KO) is in after his stirring comeback knockout of Breidis Prescott on Saturday, which knocks old Zab Judah out of the rankings. If they went head-to-head, I'd pick Alvarado to crack Judah and then some bizarre ending where Judah, in his own mind at least, saves face and is "cheated." Plus I think Alvarado's win over Prescott, who has improved this year and in my mind deserved a win in September over Paul McCloskey, is better than any win of Zab's since 2005. I mean, I know Zab "beat" Lucas Matthysse and all...
Super Featherweight
Eloy Perez's stay at No. 10 lasted a week. He didn't lose or fight or anything, but I've bumped Diego Magdaleno in after checking out his easy points win on Friday night over Emmanuel Lucero. Neither of them have exactly proven world class status, but the division is thin and it's one where potential and skill can weigh heavily. Right now I think Magdaleno is better than Perez.
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SUPERFIGHT
Pac/Mayweather has now lost its appeal and appears a mismatch as Manny’s stock has now plummetted like the Dow Jones. Mayweather has only himself to blame for missing out on a mega payday against Pacman by running scared the last couple of years. Mayweather will need another dance partner for May 2012 as Pac has other options. How about Martinez vs Mayweather @154lbs???
Running scared...
People are so sure this was the scenario it’s not even worth trying to convince them otherwise.
If Manny Floyd is a mismatch in your book
What do you call Wlad Mormeck :)
Mismatch maybe a little strong, but I see where you are coming from. It used to be a straight 50-50 fight. Now… you would be a fool not to favour Floyd
by Sweet science on Nov 14, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
Floyd Has always been Pound 4 Pound best..
All morning I have been reading stories of Manny Pacquaio’s wearing down or Pacquaio not being the same fighter, in the words of Roger Mayweather " yall don’t know sh*t about boxing…LOL". Let me say here that Floyd has been the best boxer that we have seen in the past 15 years no one has dominated the sport at such a high level in this period of time.
Manny Pacquiao came on the scene with his aggressive combative style and took the world by storm betting on bigger but less skilled men. I could go on and on about the whole Pacquiao overhype I am just glad that JMM laid out the framework on how to tame this little Lion. I personally really enjoyed the fight and enjoyed watching Manny being mentally broken down in this contest. Freddie and Manny need to retract all statements made against Money Mayweather because a fight with Floyd will definitely send Manny into being a full time politician. They are not ready for PBF!!
Actually
He was beating who Floyd was beating impressively plus fighting and beating who Floyd was not fighting. That was the reason for the discussion. And it was legitimate.
If Pacquiao lost I could see
But no way does Saturday’s event relegate Pacquiao to the #2 spot. First of all Pacquiao won. Yes we can bitch that Marquez should have won but at the end of the day the score on the cards – incompetent judging or just it being too close to call – saw Pac-Man’s arms being raised.
Secondly, Mayweather’s last match with Ortiz also ended in a contrversial manner. What PBF did was legit and hell even smart. But the circumstances surrounding it didn’t help and I can’t see it as a match that would prove that PBF is #1 P4P. And say how much PBF was dominating Ortiz, we don’t know how that much would have ended up had Ortiz not been stupid.
PBF’s lack of activity also dosen’t help.
I really hope in May we finally see the top two P4P fighters just settle the debate once and for all.
by TheMysticalNinja on Nov 14, 2011 9:12 AM EST reply actions
But no way does Saturday’s event relegate Pacquiao to the #2 spot. First of all Pacquiao won. Yes we can bitch that Marquez should have won but at the end of the day the score on the cards – incompetent judging or just it being too close to call – saw Pac-Man’s arms being raised.
Hi. I’ll try to explain this without sounding like a smug dick or anything, as I really don’t mean to: These rankings fluctuate based on performance. You don’t have to lose a fight to move down, or win a fight to move up. Matthew Macklin moved up at 160 after his loss to Felix Sturm, and I wasn’t even someone that felt he was “robbed.” I just thought he fought a very good fight and came out of it looking better than he had coming into the fight. I hate the “stay forever until you lose” rankings that a lot of places do. In boxing, where it’s not like everyone fights each other, I think you have to try harder than that. The Ring’s rankings are something I do respect, but my biggest issue is they’ll just keep the same guy in a spot until he loses. What happens there is that you wind up with guys who move up a hair here or there when someone else loses/leaves a division, even though that guy might not still deserve to be higher than someone else. Vanes Martirosyan has risen to No. 3 in their 154-pound rankings due to this, for example. No. 3! I’ve got no issue with Vanes, but he’s been treading water forever and has done nothing to get that high. It’s just tick here, tick there, don’t lose to mediocre opposition, and so on. I’m a little more proactive.
And say how much PBF was dominating Ortiz, we don’t know how that much would have ended up had Ortiz not been stupid.
Yeah, well, he was. It’s hard for me to say “what would have happened in round 10?” when Mayweather won in four and did so legally. Ortiz being stupid is a reason, not an excuse.
PBF’s lack of activity also dosen’t help.
He fought two months ago.
I really hope in May we finally see the top two P4P fighters just settle the debate once and for all.
Me too! It’s not like I feel Manny is now 10 light years behind Floyd. Their positions flipped in our rankings. Right now I believe Floyd is the No. 1 man. As jrok says below, I also still feel Floyd vs Manny is a great fight and it won’t look like Manny vs JMM.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 14, 2011 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I know this isn’t what Scott is saying, but I guess it seems a little strange to me how much of a big deal is being made out of this third fight. I can understand how a lot of viewers score that fight for Marquez (especially with the big Mexican crowd exploding every time JMM landed), but Manny didn’t looked finished or anything. In fact, you could argue that’s the best he ever looked matching up with Juan, who is a stylistic nightmare for him, and he had to fight him with a pretty bad cut that kept opened up, too.
Anyway, it’s always tougher to fight an opposite handed fighter, and especially tough when it’s a counterpuncher, and almost impossible when that counterpuncher is Juan Manuel Marquez. Not sure why so many people are comparing it to the Floyd Mayweather fight, or thinking Pacquiao is now somehow an easy fight for Floyd. Yeah Floyd cruised over Marquez, just like Manny cruised over Hatton. Styles make fights.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Styles do indeed make fights...
It will be the same type of fight with PBF that JMM fought on Saturday night, that is what draws my comparison. Floyd will fight the same type of cerebral Boxing match and Pacquiao seemed very uncomfortable the way the fight was going. Floyd being faster and a better boxer and counter-puncher than Marquez, I expect if the fight ever happens to win decisively over Manny.
by Wade4President on Nov 14, 2011 9:53 AM EST up reply actions
Thank god someone said it
The comparisons to JMM/Floyd are ridiculous.
This “fighter A beat Fighter B, who beat fighter C, so fighter A would obviously beat fighter C” way of thinking is insane. Its boxing and has been disproved countless times.
by Shitali Klitschko on Nov 14, 2011 12:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yepp, the ones I always think of
Frazier gives Ali hell; Foreman destroys Frazier; Ali beats Foreman
Cotto beats Mosley; Margarito beats Cotto (); Mosley destroys Margarito ( = possible extra help)
Regardless of everything, I always think that Floyd’s skills would beat Pacquiao. I would probably pick a prime Pacquiao to beat a prime Castillo in a more convincing fashion than Mayweather did, but I hate playing fantasy matchmaker outside of Fight Night, where on any given night Anthony Mundine can destroy Hagler in two rounds.
Nobody will read this and care and why should they?
by Eoin_not_ian on Nov 14, 2011 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
Just found out that adding an asterisk makes stuff go bold. You learn something every day
Nobody will read this and care and why should they?
by Eoin_not_ian on Nov 14, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I’ve been trying to say this too. Floyd and JMM are not the same guy. Marquez doesn’t mind taking a risk, for one thing. Mayweather does. Marquez will gladly get hit if he has to. Mayweather avoids contact (and does it beautifully, I should say). I still don’t think it’s any sure thing that Mayweather beats Manny, because he’s not Marquez as much as Marquez isn’t Floyd, though I would favor Mayweather largely based on ring IQ.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 14, 2011 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
I think you are exactly right.
Pacquiao had a very tough, though by no means devastating, evening on Saturday. He fought someone who evidently knows him very, very well, but his experience with Mrquez doesn’t necessarily transfer to a Mayweather fight.
There were aspects of Pacquiao’s performance on Saturday that concerned me with regard to a Mayweather fight, mostly his lack of combinations and his previous ability to punch rapidly from any angle he could find.
But Marquez was not passive in his defense, like Mayweather tends to be. I know that Mayweather’s offense is underappreciated, but I think he has a tendency to try to baffle opponents by slipping punches, and assuming they will get frustrated.
If Pacquiao’s timing when and if he faces Mayweather was like Saturday, he’s a dead man, because it was awful (I say this as a Pacquiao fan); if his timing is like it has been prior to this fight, I still think he will overwhelm Mayweather.
If you do go for BLH championships
You could also go with “Bad Left Hookers,” but that might be interpreted the wrong way.
How about, in honor of our fearless leader, “Vicars of Christ?”
by Verklemptomaniac on Nov 14, 2011 9:41 AM EST reply actions
I kinda like the BLH championship idea...
what’s one more, right? The thing is, this site knows more about boxing than the actual sanctioning bodies do anyway (and is nowhere near the corruption levels of the sanctioning bodies).
Oof.
I can see Manny’s stock falling some this week, but Mayweather advancing as a result makes me feel queasy. The Ortiz fight/fiasco was so abortive and abbreviated that it makes me uncomfortable to see it factor into welter/P4P rankings, but I know that that’s just how the ball rolls. I can’t really make a passionate argument one way or the other, so I’ll just whine about my stomach upset. I kind of feel like Santa’s the only guy who should get to work one night a year and still hold onto his pound for pound status….
I was really disappointed that the Perez v Broner fight didn’t get made. I’m waiting/hoping for Perez to break out of his fringy regional club fighter status and start getting into some bigger fights, but he seems to keep bubbling just under the surface.
They seem to be playing it patiently with Eloy — not safe, but patient. He’s had flaws that needed correcting and he keeps working on that. They’re not rushing him into a big fight just to go “Look you’re on HBO!” which I think in his case is a good idea. He’s not a blue chipper, but he is talented and has some future if handled right. I think they’ve done well so far.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 14, 2011 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
I liked that match up because I see Broner as having his own share of flaws (like looooosing to Ponce de Leon), and he seemed like a potential right guy and the right time for Perez to step up to. But I can understand the Perez camp not wanting to go to Cincinnati, and I agree that jumping the gun for the HBO spotlight is a dangerous temptation that can gum up the works of a fighter’s development. I just like the guy and his light-punching ways and am eager to see how he fares at the next level. And I’m tired of having to stay up till one in the morning to watch some delayed broadcast on Telefutura or wherever to see his fights. That’s way past my bedtime.
How much did Mayweather weigh in the ring for Marquez? That’s gonna influence my choice of pound for pound #1. You have to think about how they’ve performed over all their fights together. Manny has put a fit Marquez down 4 times when they were at an equal weight, Mayweather put down a chubby Marquez just once and never really hurt him. If Mayweather actually had to cut down to 144 or 143, whatever their fight was supposed to be for, Marquez might be able to figure out some moves on him over the course of 3 fights.
How much did Mayweather weigh in the ring for Marquez?
He doesn’t do the HBO scales.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 14, 2011 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
Ok look for me this is completely ridiculous, where to start??!!
Firstly, pac won what was described as being a fight between the 2 greatest warriors of this generation, it was p4p #1 vs what p4p #4/5?? and he won. Doubts though there may be (I’m not one of them) fact is he won, and his ‘performance’ won him the fight thus proving (until proven otherwise floyd) he is currently at the top of the chain
Secondly, mayweather did not put in, for me, a classy ‘Mayweather’ performance against Victor Ortiz. No. Far from it, that was a joke fight that proved nothing and yes granted as my previous point states he did win, yes by a cheap shot (followed by an equally wrong headbutt) but that was not a legitimate win was it really?? But even as a win this rankings is based on performance right? Someone tell me how 4 rounds of mayweather warming up was better than the battle of wits put in by both pacquiao and marquez?? Now maybe mayweather would beat pacquiao following the marquez fight, but that certainly is not due to mayweather’s performance against ortiz, thats judging from mayweather’s performances over the years so I also reject that argument
Which brings me to my thrid point, Mayweather has been inactive really for a very long time how can he jump in at number one?? Over the last few years he has offered us Shane Mosley which I don’t think anyone will disagree with me saying was a non-entity of a match (ditto for pac-man btw I am aware) and Victor Ortiz, at least pac-man has been dominating the top guys who are put in front of him for the last few years
Finally I would like to say this actually isn’t a Mayweather rant, in fact in the ring I actually admire the guy, outside of it he actually humours me and despite being English I am not bitter he beat Hatton nor do I complain at Cortez reffing (other than in the Ortiz fight) I am simply saying this ranking is just bizarre. Ok, rant over :D
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