Pacquiao vs Marquez: Alex Ariza Says Manny Went Light in Camp
by Scott Christ on Nov 14, 2011 4:08 PM EST
in Boxing News Analysis
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There has been some head-clashing in the past week between Alex Ariza and Manny Pacquiao, and it continues today with Ariza publicly criticizing the way that Pacquiao trained for Saturday's fight with Juan Manuel Marquez. Late last week, it was reported that the two had an argument that resulted in Manny breaking a glass and throwing his cell phone, and today, Ariza had this on the camp experience this time around with Manny:
"[Manny] looked good but his body didn’t cooperate with him again last night. His balance was off, he looked very ordinary, nothing special. He was exposed. ... I don’t want to make excuses about leg cramps but our fights are getting worse and worse ... we are starting to go in reverse. Unless we get back to what we did in the beginning I don’t see how we are going to progress."
Ariza says this is three straight fights that Manny has slacked on his tough conditioning program in camp, and that after Saturday's performance, Pacquiao has told him that they'll be going back to the old ways that kept Manny so destructive in fights with Oscar De La Hoya, Ricky Hatton, and Miguel Cotto.
You know, I said something in the second look article this morning that I really believe in. I think at some point, be it in camp or on fight night, Manny Pacquiao let himself look past Juan Manuel Marquez just a bit. And I think that's natural given the way he'd been dominating everyone since the last time those two fought in 2008. He's lost maybe five rounds in total in the last three and a half years. Anyone starts believing their own hype when they become that dominant. It's not a shot at Manny the person, just to say that he's human.
When a human being gets on a roll like that, they start thinking they're indestructible. This happens in all sports, in business, in relationships, in every aspect of life. It's not unique to Manny Pacquiao. They make movies about this sort of thing all the time. In the movies, the character tends to redeem his or herself. Manny, if Ariza is telling the truth, sounds like he wants to admit his mistakes and change them.
Ariza also says that both he and Pacquiao want a fourth shot at Marquez. I think from their side, internally, there's genuine disappointment with how the fight went and a serious desire to finally beat Marquez convincingly. I think this is something that is going to gnaw at Manny a little bit, which is not something we often see his usual happy-go-lucky persona, but this is a man who haunts him every time his star rises. After he trounced Barrera, Marquez neutralized him. After he'd risen to generally being ranked No. 2 pound-for-pound, Marquez neutralized him. After Pacquiao had become a global superstar and one of the biggest money men in the sport, Marquez neutralized him.
And I think it's great that Manny still has that desire to prove, perhaps largely to himself, that he's the better fighter. What Marquez wants to do is anyone's guess right now, but I think Top Rank might come with an offer he simply can't refuse. If a fourth fight happens, he's going to get another career-best payday, and if they have honor, they'll fork over that $10 million he was promised for a fourth fight if he'd won the third bout. He didn't get his hand raised, but he showed his value.
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Anything for the Marks to eat up, ay Ariza?
From a guy that said anything to everything ranging from “God could come down and help Marquez and he still couldn’t beat Manny” to “I wouldn’t be surprised if it doesn’t get passed the first round” to “Manny has been training like a man possessed”.
Now he came into the training camp light and that’s why he got exposed?
Talk about covering all bases while talking out of both sides.
Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses. --The Knockout Mechanism.
beat me to the punch
didn’t expect this kind of BS to come out of ariza. a more plausible explanation would have been that manny overtrained for the fight… but undertrained? get real.
You cannot walk if you fear to crush the ant in your wake.
and out come the spin police
alex ariza has learned from the master (freddie roach) as to how to spin everything. I suppose saying, “I think manny is finished as a top p4p guy” doesn’t sound as good…. but whatever
by journeyintosound on Nov 14, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
Conte has been obliterating Ariza over the last couple days on Twitter. In fact, it’s the only good thing about Twitter.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Nov 14, 2011 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
I just wanted to point out that you are defending twitter.
I’m not calling you an 8 year old girl or nothing…….. but……. I’m just saying
by journeyintosound on Nov 14, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
Whoa I am not defending twitter at all in that statement. It’s pretty much the only outlet where I get to see Conte going full Jared Allen on Ariza. It’s the only good thing about twitter, and it does not make the whole experience good or anything.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Nov 14, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
Conte replied to one of my Tweets Sat night. Out of the blue.
After the fight I tweeted: “Is Alex Ariza on Twitter so I can talk shit to him?”
No hashtags or anything. And he wrote back
“Yeah good idea, he was talking all kinds of shit in the camp.”
lol He must’ve done a search for Alex Ariza just to talk smack about him. I had to do a double take to see if it was really Conte too.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
@xFenixKnightx on the Twitter
by xFenixKnightx on Nov 14, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions
He’s kinda trolling twitter. there’s no other way to describe it. The guy loves attention.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 14, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
whats conte's twitter? this sounds great lol
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
by Eddie Gonzalez on Nov 14, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
@VictorConte
It’s solid gold.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Nov 14, 2011 4:49 PM EST up reply actions
Khan
Khan said Pacquiao had a fantastic camp and he doesn’t have his star hitched to Pacquiao’s wagon. Khan spars with Pacquiao and sees him in the gym all the time. I trust his opinion when he says during the fight that Manny had a great camp. Also best quote of the fight comes from the play-by-play guy on Primetime “Credit really has to go to Angel Herdia who has gotten JMM bigger without sacrificing speed and at the old age of 38!” Yeah I wonder how that happens…
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Nov 14, 2011 4:40 PM EST up reply actions
yeah maybe he should have opted for actual drug testing
but i guess since he didn’t lose, he won’t care. Although, lets be clear here, anyone with Floyds or Mannys budget can pay someone like me to make a steroid that isn’t detectable. I mean, Victor Conte’s work wasn’t exactly rocket science (I’m just saying the best minds in the world aren’t doing steroid synthesis, but neither are they doing steroid detection work).
by journeyintosound on Nov 14, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
Credit really has to go to Angel Herdia who has gotten JMM bigger without sacrificing speed and at the old age of 38!" Yeah I wonder how that happens…
I didn’t want to say anything, because I defend Pacqiuao, but yeahh I catch your drift and thought the same thing…
welp
the manny camp sang the “we arent worried about that” tune all of camp. no sense in complaining now. THEY werent worried about it.. right?
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
by Eddie Gonzalez on Nov 14, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly, I think everyone at a certain level is doing steroids one way or another. For me, its not a huge big deal but people seem to be completely ignorant of this fact.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Nov 14, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
Didn’t he said this was their best camp ever? His problem is not that he talks out of both sides of his mouth, his problem is that he talks too much. There is no microphone he doesn’t like.
That is what I thought he was saying the other week.
Its almost like when Manny does great ‘he did everything I said’
Manny does bad ‘he didn’t follow my plan’
Nobody will read this and care and why should they?
by Eoin_not_ian on Nov 14, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
Famous last words
They said God couldn’t sink the Titanic as well. I’m not say God did anything to Manny but it smacks of over-confidence.
here they go
like you said in the second look article.. manny was TRYING to win… he just didnt..
his camp is in obvious disarray after saturday, its gonna be interesting to see how they respond. it doesnt look like they are responding well, and now freddie roach is even going on record saying he wants a tune up fight
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/chris_mannix/11/14/pacquiao-marquez/index.html
i think they take marquez rematch an give floyd soooooo much room to talk shit about how they are ducking him (fairly or unfairly) thus leaving floyd with few options
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
if you ask me..i think he is losing it
http://hcroyo.hubpages.com/hub/Is-Manny-Pacquiao-losing-his-magic-in-the-ring
I can believe this.
I’ve mentioned in too many posts to want to admit to writing that Pacquiao just didn’t look right somehow; I’ve also said, just to try to stave off criticisms that I’m underplaying Marquez, the latter was really spectacular, and exceeded most people’s expectations.
I started with the possibility that he’d reached too high a weight, a kind of “Peter Principle,” or maybe had accrued too many outside distractions. In your rescoring post, I wondered if he had in fact gotten into shape too early.
But maybe it is as Ariza says; maybe he thought this fight would be a denouement, just a cap on part of his past.
I think your right Scott. He really didn’t seem mentally or physically prepared for what he should have known from experience JMM could bring. Despite his statements to the contrary, he probably thought he was going to bulldoze Marquez.
You always prepare for the best version of your opponent. Easier said than done.
People kept saying Manny is jacked and a true Welter
Well dude correct me if Im wrong but Marquez looked even more ripped than Manny at the weigh-ins. Man it would’ve been so glorious if Buffer would’ve said, “And NEW”
Sigh…
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
@xFenixKnightx on the Twitter
came to the ring heavier (and taller) as well
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
by Eddie Gonzalez on Nov 14, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah I mean Marquez looked pretty solid. Am I doing a little revisionist history or did Pacquiao look a little thinner than he has recently? I know it was a few pounds down from 147, but he didn’t look as ripped as he usually does.
it might be from overtraining
i noticed the same thing too. khan was going off on how great pacquiao;s camp was, maybe great is just pacquiao training (too) hard every day.
You cannot walk if you fear to crush the ant in your wake.
I’m just going to leave this quote by Ariza here.
I want to use this fight against Marquez as my stamp on the success I have had with Manny. I was not there the past two Marquez fights. I started with Pacquiao during Diaz.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
His balance was off because JMM made it off
When Manny flicked that double jab then came through with the left, JMM would take a half step back just out of reach of the jabs, then step off to the left when the straight left came through. Hence, Manny’s back foot kept coming off the canvas because he was reaching for an opponent who was no longer there, that he was no longer “on line” with. This is a much different approach then Clottey or Margarito undertook, where they put up their high guards and either stood there or backed into the ropes so that Manny could alternately work their bodies or their heads, depending where he saw a break in the defense.
Manny was off balance all night because JMM is a brilliant boxer, and one who was exquisitely well prepared for this fight.
Most people don't know shit about boxing. At all. Period. - Roger Mayweather
Show be tell. - Ann Wolfe
by The Kittitas Kid on Nov 14, 2011 7:20 PM EST reply actions
JMM LOOKED BULKED UP IN A SOMEWHAT INNOCENT BUT SUSPICIOUS WAY." It is IMPOSSIBLE to not notice how fast Marquez was able to bulk up. Was that done on
high-octane piss!?
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry
Haters gonna hate
Got your fight pick wrong, so of course the guy was juicing.
Stay classy.
Most people don't know shit about boxing. At all. Period. - Roger Mayweather
Show be tell. - Ann Wolfe
by The Kittitas Kid on Nov 14, 2011 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
My Pick'em was Marquez, one of 6 who did out of 56,
and I was right, never mind I lost two points instead of winning 15. And my reasoning was that Manny was not looking good to me at all vs Mosley in May, granting he won it, he didn’t win it looking good. he actually looked listless. And that, for Christ’s sake, was against a shot fighter.
Manny doesn’t become fat or debauched between fights, but he simply no longer concentrates on boxing exclusively. Marquez does. And I don’t care who the fighter is, too much distraction is going to subtract from his game. So i don’t think it has much to do with Conte vs. Herredia vs Ariza, I think Manny has ceased to focus on or care as much about boxing to the level necessary to win against the best.
And sad to say, I don’t think he ever will again. I think he still loves it, but he no longer loves it enough..
Ariza is a pimp who changes his tune every time the wind switches. But I don’t think that’s what it’s about. Manny Pacquiao just doesn’t care as much any more. Which is fine, no reason he should. But he won’t beat Marquez a fourth time that way, and he certainly won’t beat Floyd Mayweather, never minding how carefully FMJr. picks his opposition.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
I've been thinking that too.
And sad to say, I don’t think he ever will again
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry
Seriously though
Manny’s been a pro fighter for nearly 20 years now, and a championship level fighter for over 15. It should be no surprise that he’s starting to lose something.
In a way, I wish he’d just ride off into the sunset if he can’t make a Floyd fight, and I wish he’d tell Bob Arum that. He’s clearly been fading at least his last two fights.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
It’s been four for me. His footwork is not the same. He doesn’t move the same.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 15, 2011 1:51 AM EST up reply actions
Of course against Clottey and Margarito he didn’t have to move a lot, but there were subtle things that I thought made it seem like he was slowing. Mosley confirmed it. Marquez cemented it.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 15, 2011 1:51 AM EST up reply actions
as far as i am concerned, manny is losing it
http://hcroyo.hubpages.com/hub/Is-Manny-Pacquiao-losing-his-magic-in-the-ring
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