Juan Manuel Marquez: No Las Vegas, But Nacho Says Cowboys Stadium OK for Fourth Pacquiao Fight
by Scott Christ on Nov 19, 2011 7:40 AM EST
in Boxing News Analysis
Email
Print
If there is indeed a fourth fight between rivals Manny Pacquiao and Juan Manuel Marquez yet to come, Marquez's Hall of Fame trainer Nacho Beristain tells Sal Rodriguez of Record that the fighter absolutely will not fight in Las Vegas, where he feels he's been screwed three times by the judges in three fights with Pacquiao (who is 2-0-1 in three very close bouts).
But Mexico isn't necessary, either. Cowboys Stadium in Arlington, Texas, would apparently work just fine.
Pacquiao and Top Rank have held two events at Cowboys Stadium, both in 2010, and frankly, there's a reason that they all went back to the MGM Grand in Vegas this year.
When Pacquiao went to the massive stadium to face Joshua Clottey in March 2010, the event sold 36,371 tickets, or more than double what Pacquiao vs Marquez drew on November 12 in Las Vegas. But that doesn't tell the real story: Pacquiao vs Marquez did a gate total of $11,648,300, ninth-largest in Nevada history.
Pacquiao vs Clottey, with all those extra tickets, returned a gate of "just" $6,359,985. Pacquiao's fight with Margarito at the same stadium eight months later did a bit less in paid attendance, and didn't come close to the gate of a Pacquiao fight in Vegas, at $5.4 million.
Whether or not everyone would be willing to leave some money on the table is up for debate, but Arum remains friendly with Jerry Jones and there were reportedly plans in motion this week to move Cotto vs Margarito to Cowboys Stadium if the fight was kicked out of New York.
A lot would depend on how this third fight did on pay-per-view, which is the real cash cow of big-time boxing, and what the market appears to be for a fourth fight.
33 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I'm sure
It was the opponent and not venue. Put Clottey in vegas and you dont get the JMM gate eithe
Well, the Margarito fight at Cowboys Stadium did 30,437 paid and $5.4 million gate. It wasn’t just Clottey.
I figure the max they could make with Pacquiao-Marquez IV is about $7 million in Arlington. And that’s the max.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 19, 2011 9:50 AM EST up reply actions
Berastain should pick the judges with Pacquaio’s team. And leave it at that.
These fights….and I say this as a fan of both men….have been very very close if not too close to call. Everyone who watches each round has a different score. That is as close as any two fighter I can recall.
I watched the fight live, saw the video on Primetime and heard about HBO’s coverage. Live, it was near impossoble to judge. Very few punches were thrown relative to their past fights. Crowd noise was constant. Forget body language. They both looked confident. Manny more energetic (even as the rounds ended) , Marquez fully focuse and determined. Manny looked less marked as Marquez looked scuffed and bruised. But so what. Most punches were blocked and/or ducked. One guy brought the action; they other countered. Styles make fights and the judges have preferred styles.
The Primetime announcer sounded hyperbolic in his amazement and Cosell like assurance that he was right in scoring it for Marquez. Khan seemed to be going along but still far more analytical. I heard the opposite was true her on HBO.
So what.
None of these guys (except Lederman) is actaully a judge and Harold is the Judge Judy of boxing, not one of the three charged with calling the fight.
Personally, I think this was a fight about expectations, met or not met, or exceeded. In that regard, most prognosticators were so far off, Marquez was getting major props just proving them wrong and thus getting scoring consideration for his brilliant fight. Manny was expected to knock his head off…and when he didn’t everyone wanted to know what was wrong.
Fights. right or wrong, get scored that way many times. Judges say the guy who was doing less well is suddenly looking better and visa versa and score it accordingly.
Bottom line, no mattter how many times they fight, it will always be close and difficult to score no matter where they fight. No matter who the judges.
That is just how much these guys styles match up.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
by pakinpower on Nov 19, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I may be wrong (every time I say that, I’m right), but I would think that for Marquez and Beristain, the main issue has become personal redemption rather than profitability.
I don’t blame them, but that’s not necessarily a motive that will sway anyone else. As a fan, I’d prefer the change of venue, just to eliminate that variable.
Unfortunately, the change would happen in Texas. Not exactly the world’s top operation in officiating.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 19, 2011 9:52 AM EST up reply actions
I’d honestly say it’s fair to have the fight in Nevada again. There or New York, but “LOL” as the kids say at Manny Pacquiao paying NY taxes (or Marquez for that matter).
My biggest concerns in Texas: Do not let Gale Van Hoy in there, and the referee has to be Rafael Ramos. He’s the best of the bunch in the state. Definitely keep that dude who refereed the ShoBox opener on 11/11 out.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 19, 2011 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
How many places do you think it is fair to have this fight?
Let’s say the conditions are not Vegas and not Mexico (well, and of course, not Philippines).
You seem to be saying New York and maybe Texas if Ramos is the ref. Any place else?
I think that, whether justified or not, the Marquez camp should be nervous. But, this is like trying to find a neutral jury for a trial that has had world-wide coverage.
don’t know where Marquez will ever be assured of complete neutrality and objectivity, but I assume he’s understandably looking for the closest approximation he can find.
So, to put it another way
Where is the closest approximation that can be found and are there other locations that are nearly as good?
That is the question, I agree. If in the US, then somewhere in the Northeast, and if not NY or NJ, how about Maine (Lewiston, e.g.) or NH? All of the Southwest is is too partisan, so Texas and Arizona are out; so is Southern California, and Nevada is the whole problem, so that’s out.
Outside of the US, it can’t be Mexico of the Phillipines, for obvious reasons. Maybe Venezuela, because they hate everything that comes from the North, but they have no purse guarantee.
Russia loves boxing, but would collapse if they had to front the money required for this fight; China (and I know this first-hand) has no clue what we’re talking about most of the eurozone is in middle of a meltdown, and France is certainly uninterested. But, this leaves England and Germany.
England has no interest in promoting foreign fighters, since the Brits seem to think that they are at the cusp of a renaissance of boxing.
I think that the smart bets are on either Germany or Scandinavia.
I think Texas is a crap pick, but they have the tax break same as Nevada. You can count out any state that doesn’t, including NY and California.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 19, 2011 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
I would be terrified of having Laurence Cole possibly handling the officiating. Remember when he told Marquez to basically stop fighting because he thought he was up on the cards a few years ago? Cole’s dad would be thrilled to get him this assignment unless he is no longer the boss.
by Kory Kitchen on Nov 19, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
It is this time, methinks. Arum wants the fight. I’m not so sure Marquez is willing to put up with much.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
He may just price himself out BA
With the passage of time, the L’s still stand. And his maketability goes down with age. He has power but he has to be very careful not to be too clever by half.
Manny makes money…as doe Floyd….no matter who they fight. JMM does not. In there lies reduced leverage.
JMM had close calls with Manny three times an Manny had close calls with JMM. I think it’s pretty cool that both of them want to get it on again (very old school0 and get some resolution. So far, it’s a novel without and satisfying ending.
I real terms, and by this I mean business and boxing, it is commendable that manny evem gives it another roll. He could…as I suspect the Floyd of the past six years would, simply move on, fight once or twice, and retire soon after. Some if not many belive he should do exactly that. But the fighter in him iseems willing if not anxious to fight a very dangerous (to his record) opponent; arguably his greatest danger.
Marquez is emotional. Manny seems less so. Berastain is far too emotional and has proven to be inconsistent (I’m being nice) as a negotiator. He must be careful. Or risk losing teh biggest payday of a an aging fighter’s boxing career.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
It’s this or face Floyd, and as of now (but not before now) they’re right to duck. And we know they’ve got it, they promised it if JMM won (which imo he did), so I think they should stay with it. I don’t think JMM will settle for much, no reason he should. I think, and obviously I can only guess not being in his head, that he’ll do it for plenty, and otherwise why bother. He’s got enough now to live well and enjoy his family and educate his kids in Mexico, i think he’d just as soon leave at that as be insulted by parsimony. And I don’t blame him.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
Then he should tell Nacho to cool it on the money issue.
The fact is BA, he just made himself valuable just as most were expecting this to pssibly be his last fight. He’s a fighter. Not the best businessman to date but a prize fighter nevertheless.
I think he fights many more times. They almost all do; fight ,that is , past their expiration date.
On another point, you can never count someone else’s money. He has more than he could have imagined but that does not mean that he has what he may now want or need,
It is virtually impossible to speak for anyone, no matter how rich or poor they are.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Manny makes money…as doe Floyd….no matter who they fight. JMM does not.
Marquez does fine. He’d make good money to fight Erik Morales or Brandon Rios or Timothy Bradley or a handful of other fighters.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 19, 2011 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
If I have just earned a place at the table with the big money boys, I’m not so sure I’m going to walk into Rios or Bradley so fast for far smaller money.
Remember, this is boxing, a sport with a pretty short life span and a long climb into the big time. When you get there and can make it, it seems wise not to blow it.
I have no idea of what kind of real money may be on the table for a rematch…but I’m pretty sure it’s more than he has ever been capable of making.
My point is that no matter how much he and many others believe in his position, he is and will remain the B side fighter to either Manny or Floyd. So he must negotiate as such. Try….but be careful not to overplay his hand.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
If I have just earned a place at the table with the big money boys
Has he, really? You said he doesn’t make big money with others. So is he really at the table, or is he just standing by it?
If the terms for a Pacquiao fight don’t suit him, he’s not going to go broke, and there’s no indication he’s dying to fight Manny again. He can go fight plenty of others and make good money. Or retire having made his two biggest paydays late in his career.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 19, 2011 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
Just what we need...
Laurence Cole in charge of a significant fight.
As long as you aren’t flying the Oscar De La Hoya “we love the fans and give them the best fights all the time not like Bob Arum!!!” flag of lies, then fair enough.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 19, 2011 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
Question....for Spanish speaking readers
I have read that Beristain was telling Marquez h was ahead and many have said that was very poor instruction, especially when you have lost or drawn in the past and are fighting to try to win a belt. Others have said that is not what he was saying.
What was he saying?
I listened to Roach and Nacho on Primetime and Roach was telling Manny he was behind (but that mens nothing in reality) as he may have said that because he belived it or because he wanted his fighter to step it up. Or both.
Nacho, on Primetime, was telling his fighter not to get knocked out; not exactly the voice of a confident trainer but still good advice. He ha the more defensive counter-punching fighter so I understand what he did not want to happen but he certain ly didn’t seenm to believe that his man could close the show (by knocking Manny out).
I don’t speak or understand Spanish so I can only hear (and interpret) Roach’s periodic instructions.
What was Nacho actually saying
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I can’t do Spanish either, but several of those who do on this site all remarked at the bad translation, and gave it as Nacho not saying, “You’re winning the fight,” but rather as “You’re doing well, you’re controlling the pace,” which is quite different and was in fact true.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
The UK telecast had him saying not to get KO'ed
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I can’t knowfor sure what he was saying, but I’m inclined to go with the Spanish speakers here. One put it as “controlling the action,” I believe, another used “the pace.” I see no reason to doubt them.
I didn’t hear the UK broadcast and am not familiar with their translator, but I will say that when I’m watching fights broadcast in Spanish (Telefutura, ESPNDeportes, etc.), “KO” is used in its English form, sort of like the French en garde is used with fencing even in English, also “uppercut”(“oopaircoot”) remains in the English form. I notice it all the time, as it’s usually the only part of the broadcast I understand. So I’m betting that if you didn’t hear “KO” from that corner, Nacho didn’t say it. Sounds more like “kehyow,” but it’s in English.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bad Left Hook
Related FanShots on Bad Left Hook
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
