Pacquiao vs Mayweather: Bob Arum Maneuvering to Cut Out Golden Boy
by Scott Christ on Nov 28, 2011 6:45 AM EST
in Boxing News Analysis
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In the ongoing Floyd Mayweather Jr vs Manny Pacquiao saga, you can only be sure of one thing: Nothing is for sure until we see the fighters together.
But right now, the talks appear to be legitimate, and appear to be heating up. And Golden Boy Promotions may be left out in the cold for boxing's biggest fight, if it happens.
The latest development is that Bob Arum is negotiating with investment groups to help stage the incredibly expensive (and rich) mega-fight. Michael Koncz has met with Mayweather at his gym in Las Vegas. And Arum says Mayweather is "going solo" to negotiate this fight, meaning with no involvement from Golden Boy Promotions.
It would be Mayweather's first fight since 2007 that didn't involve Golden Boy in any way. His fights with Oscar De La Hoya, Ricky Hatton, Juan Manuel Marquez, Shane Mosley and Victor Ortiz were all promoted by Golden Boy. And if the fight does happen at all, it would be Floyd's first time working with Top Rank since he bought himself out of his contract with Bob Arum in 2006, a few weeks after he fought Zab Judah, and a few months before fighting Carlos Baldomir.
While much of the blame has been directed at Bob Arum and Top Rank for not making the fight, this could be quite the smooth move from Arum, if he's convinced everyone that making the fight is easier if they go through him without Golden Boy involved. Arum's no dummy: If Manny Pacquiao really, really wants this fight, and will only accept this fight, he has to get the fight for Manny.
So how does he do that? Bury the hatchet with Mayweather. Work with Mayweather. And eliminate the other money-grabber, which is Golden Boy, because they have neither fighter under contract. Their relationship with Mayweather has been that of a promoter, but he has no deal with them and no obligation to involve them in this fight.
It was always assumed that getting the fight done would mean Arum and the Richard Schaefer/Oscar De La Hoya team would have to work together. Maybe not. Arum doesn't have to squash all of his grudges to this. Just the beef with Mayweather.
If he can round up the money, and he can make certain guarantees with the help of investors, he can make this fight. And it would be really something to see how Golden Boy, who have been digging at Arum for weeks now, would handle the news that he got the fight done without them.
Wait and see.
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Spot on Scott
Golden Boy is makin noise that unfortunately for them is nothing more than an attempt to bait Top Rank into a conversation, or even create the appearance of a conversation,that kn
might legally oblige Top Rank to work with or even pay GB walk away money to get out of the Way. That is the reason GB is squawking and TR isn’t talking.
They are fielding very real investor proposals, some more credible than others. There is no way that if crazy money is offered via Koncz to them that they will hesitate to make the fight for Manny. Nor could they….as not doing so would mean alienating their biggest star.
Now Floyd s another story. He has already changed his tone with TR, communicating briefly and directly with them via cordial text. Just yesterday even Roger said that Arum was a great promoter, a rare kind word given the history between these parties.
No one has Floyd in their pocket, certainly not Golden Boy. They are at the table without any cards to play. And certainly no ace.
So let’s watch the next moves. It seems everyone wants the fight but the only two who can make it are Floyd and Arum with Pacquiao.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
He doesnt have to pay them.
The fight would get promoted by Top Rank so he has assurances of a top notch promotion.
The cons are that he has to run the numbers and do the calculus himself with Golden Boys expertise. But known Floyd, I think he can figure it out.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Another advantage
Is that he doesn’t have to worry about bad blood between GB and TR interfering with his interest in making the fight.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Further clarification
Manny was correct when he said negations were going on. Koncz is in fact the man fielding the various financial proposals and then bringing them to Top Rank to verify their credibility and viability.
Ariza, for his part, is a loud mouth who is Freddie’s employee, but whose comments, pronouncements and interviews are all being made in an atmosphere of apparent desperation. He is under siege for a variety of reasons; none the least for over stepping his boundaries in the corner. He all but pushed Miguel Diaz away when Manny was cut; not exactly endearing himself to the venerable cut man.
The real questions remain. Can TR’s younger executives deal with Floyd and engage one of the mega deals being put forth. And secondly, will Floyd deal reasonably.
I am beginning to think the answer is yes.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Notice
Floyd now said he’s ready to sign a contract today.
Without any mention of testing.
It seems that the time is ripe for these two men. They are not getting younger. They can still fight two if one is exciting enough to warrant it…and make a double fortune.
As for the Marquez conversation, you have to assume that Floyd realized that Manny had a good money option in rematching JMM, essentially forcing Floyd to find another credible opponent. So Marquez talk, though real, was and is an negotiating tactic.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
This fight only happens with testing.
"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."
by Oli Goldstein on Nov 28, 2011 8:21 AM EST up reply actions
It will not be a deal breaker.
If the money being offered is real and a deal can be made, expect Floyd to sign and not make it the issue it has been in the past. Therewill be some posturing for sure….but I think we all know that any testing done will be more of negotiating tactic and not a precedent for changing the rules in Nevada.
They will have to do enough to give Floyd cover and satisfy his demands simultaneously but just enough to sweep it aside so they can get their hands on the prize; the money.
There is not talk about testing today…and very little since the Marquez fight.
Your guess is as good as mine at why not….but mine is that Money talks and BS walks.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
It will not be a deal breaker.
No, because presumably Manny’s team is willing to be tested. The money being offered two years ago was ‘real’ and a deal could be made, but it wasn’t because of the testing. The reason this isn’t being mentioned is because Manny’s since come out and said he’s happy to submit.
"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."
by Oli Goldstein on Nov 28, 2011 8:45 AM EST up reply actions
He agreed then.
I have no idea where you get your information. The deal was done. Everything was agreed to. Contracts were drafted. Then Floyd moved the ball. But Manny had already agreed to the testing.
My point is that I see wiser heads prevailing . No blather about testing. Just fielding offers and looking at viability.
Will ther be testing. Yes. will it break the deal. I think not. Might the money break the deal. We shall see.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Hang on, hang on. When contracts were drafted and payments were agreed, Manny didn’t agree to Olympic-style testing. This was one of the bigger news stories of late 2009 and much of early 2010, so unless your incredible and only occasionally-mentioned access to Top Rank offers you that much more than the daily news we read, I’m quite happy to believe my ‘information’ is correct.
You might be flippant about testing – ‘testing smesting’ being one of your finer recent gems, but ‘blather’ above being a good one too – but the fact persists that it’s broken the deal before and, unless Manny agrees to it, could break the deal all over again.
"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."
by Oli Goldstein on Nov 28, 2011 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
Top Rank has said repeatedly that Manny is fine with the drug testing now. I don’t think it’s an issue this time, and if it does wind up being an issue, Top Rank has some explaining to do. Arum has personally, repeatedly said that the testing is not a problem.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 28, 2011 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
Kizer and Greenberg said it was Floyd
That backed off.
I dont have to argue because I met with and specifically asked the the lawyer who drafted the already negotiated contract.
So find another issue.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
When did Pac ever agree to the testing that Floyd demanded?
He did a agree to testing with a 14-day cutoff before the fight but never to the Olympic style random testing that Floyd wanted.
I’m going to take this opportunity, without meaning to give offense, to say that I wish people would stop calling it “Olympic-style.” I’ve been trying to break myself of the habit, too. It’s not really Olympic-style, because the window is not even close to big enough for that level of testing. I’ve taken to calling it “Floyd-style,” and I don’t mean that as a crack at Floyd. It’s still a hell of a lot better than what state commissions do.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 28, 2011 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
We have written whole Fanposts on this here SC
It is Floyd designed testing for select opponents.
Olympic testing is random all year round testing. Not “let’s test when I announce” the testing period begins and ends.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
It’s still a hell of a lot better than what state commissions do.
Did you read that?
"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."
by Oli Goldstein on Nov 28, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
I'm confused again,
how would Floyd have the power to mandate year-round random testing?
Sure it would be ideal, but only the state commisions could do that, and as long as there are places like Texas or Alabama, it would be hard even for them to do it.
What Floyd wants is WAY better than what currently exists. Don’t piss on the good just because it isn’t perfect.
I smoke on the mic like Smokin' Joe Frazier
Pakin
Would Arum just stay out of the negotiations completely? He just seems to volatile to have any involvement at all in what is sure to be delicate negotiations, especially given his history with Floyd. I feel like that’s the only way it gets done.
I doubt Arum would stay out of negotiations
Too much Ego!
by Sweet science on Nov 28, 2011 8:39 AM EST up reply actions
That and let's face it
It is his business. the guy is 80 plus but still sharp as a whistele and loves his work. so I dont expect him to be anything less than the puppet master.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
That is a great question
And it is one that his subordinates, even is top excutives ask. Or hope for. But at the end of the day, it is still his ship to run so I do not imagine that he will do any such thing.
Floyd is the same generation (a bit younger) that duBoef and Moretti. He has no issues with them and in fact he knows them from Vegas and from theie previous association.
I think if the fight gets made, it starts with athe thirty and forty year olds and then it moves simultaneously up the food chain. Arum has no intention of ruining the bigest business deal ever presented; if that is it is presented.
But great question.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I think it's one fight at a time
This one is huge money. Mayweather has no alleagiance to GB and has no overriding interest in giving away money that could be his.
The next fight, the next time, is a completely different story.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
The next fight, the next time, is a completely different story.
Will Golden Boy want to do business if they are cut out by Top Rank. This is the biggest cake in the history of the sport. Oscar will want a slice
by Sweet science on Nov 28, 2011 9:20 AM EST up reply actions
Oscar can't get a slice if he doesn't represent either fighter
GB will do everything to try to insert themselves anyway they can but without Floyd in their pocket……they don’t have anything to offer.
A question you might ask is whetgher GB will ever do business with Floyd if he goes solo.
My guess is Yes. Absolutely. They woill not cut off their noses to spite their face. long Term
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
They won't represent Floyd I think
But that is down to Floyd
But Khan is with GB and that fight is almost a lock in for the near future. As long as Money doesn’t retire after the Manny fight (If it happens May 5th)
by Sweet science on Nov 28, 2011 4:34 PM EST up reply actions
A lot of "ifs" still ahead, SS
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Dont get your hopes up too high
There’s an article on Fight Hype that says this is all a ruse. I hope not but…
Don’t read Fighthype for unbiased and authoritative informonation.
Stick to Scott’s site, here at BLH
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
No offense to BLH
But I’ll never stick to one source for my information. Even Scott doesn’t do that.
I would agree that it’s inadvisable, given that we’re talking about boxing and everyone’s got their own story to tell.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 28, 2011 9:37 AM EST up reply actions
FightHype
It’s pretty much the only place to get Floyd’s side of any story.
"Boxing is like dealing with a ho"
-Bernard Hopkins
Yep
FightHype is pretty much mandatory reading these days, like it or not. I’ve no idea how they established themselves as Floyd’s de facto house blog, but they’ve done it.
by The Boxer Rebellion on Nov 28, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
Tossing Softballs at Floyd
Printing everything he says. And Roger. And Jeff And Senior.
They might as well just hold them and massage their balls while they toss them softly. Percy and Ben would never ask a question that would remotely offend or even question a Mayweather
I read it. For fun. The way I read Page Six in the NY Post.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Yeah poor Floyd and that crummy treatment he gets from HBO. What a bunch of dicks they are to him, buying all his fights and paying him money and supporting basically his entire career. Wawwy Mewchant is mean to me. :( :(
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 28, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
Does the PGA talk shit about Tiger? Does the MLB talk shit about A-Rod? Does the NBA talk shit about Jordan? Respect is respect. Floyd doesn’t get paid to be a verbal dart board.
He doesn’t get paid to receive verbal blowjobs either.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 28, 2011 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
Also, seriously, what has anyone ever said to Floyd or about Floyd that was SO BAD on the HBO airwaves? What was SO BAD?
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 28, 2011 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
OMG...
dude i don’t have a transcript, but i do remember some saying that after the marquez fight, that marquez was gonna lose when he signed the contract. Like Floyd is better at picking opponents than challenging himself in the ring. Pretty much what the Manny fans say about floyd have been said on HBO.
Plus,
You never hear a MLB commentator call a strike a hit, like when Manny whiffed at marquez and Lampley calls it a huge right hand. If that’s not a verbal blowjob…
You forgot ESPN.
Michael Wilbon and Skip Bayless just slobbering all over Pac’s knob. I think, to be fair, every side should have their cheerleaders— i.e. Football-esque. Without fans, we wouldn’t have fights.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
True,
But its obvious that those guys don’t watch a lot of boxing since they have to cover other sports.
But yeah, if Manny has HBO, some ESPN, and other professional fans (even JImmy Kimmel), I think just one boxing blog that favors Floyd is no reason to chastise them.
It's similiar to the heat I get.
Liking Mayweather means you know nothing about Boxing because your whole world, apparently, revolves around Floyd— according to them.
It’s ridiculous.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
I see it as the exact opposite...
Its easy to jump on a band wagon, but when you are critical of their Messiah, just as they are even more critical of Floyd, just because of the way he acts, in my opinion that makes them the novices.
The only thing I’m taking away from Manny is the hype. People do perceive him as a better fighter than he is. The truth is, if Floyd did shut his yap a few times, people will give him the credit he deserves. And that’s what I see as messed up.
Sound bites shouldn’t determine if you’re a good fighter or not. Its the skills you show in the ring.
I can’t remember the last time you posted on a threat concerning N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez or M. Cotto, to be honest.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 28, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
thread*
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 28, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
dude i don’t have a transcript, but i do remember some saying that after the marquez fight, that marquez was gonna lose when he signed the contract. Like Floyd is better at picking opponents than challenging himself in the ring. Pretty much what the Manny fans say about floyd have been said on HBO.
oh no the horror. and for such a great fight.
You never hear a MLB commentator call a strike a hit, like when Manny whiffed at marquez and Lampley calls it a huge right hand. If that’s not a verbal blowjob…
Lampley does this with a lot of fighters. It’s not unique to Manny Pacquiao.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 28, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
"oh no the horror. and for such a great fight."
Great response. Biased is still biased.
Especially, since more people were concerned with Mayweather’s 2 year layoff than him dominating Marquez.
C’mon man.
who?
It was a crap fight when it was signed and we said it constantly. Shane Mosley called him out in January. Floyd stayed retired. Juan Manuel Marquez called him out in February and he just couldn’t STANDS IT NO MORE.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 28, 2011 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
Look we can go around and around about this, but I’ll just say I think Floyd milks this shit for people who believe everything he says. “Everyone’s against me!” Not really.
Yes, they’re pro-Manny to a sometimes absurd degree. They have also done the same with Cotto. But they are not particularly anti-Floyd. They ask him questions and he has a fit about how nobody ever gives him his respect, and the lemmings latch on.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 28, 2011 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
“Lampley does this with a lot of fighters. It’s not unique to Manny Pacquiao.”
You’re right, he did do it with Ortiz, when he had Floyd on the ropes and was pretty much landing nothing.
Good point.
Yeah, it’s only Manny or Floyd’s opponents. He does it all the time.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 28, 2011 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
Like, I’m just saying Jim Lampley loves going HARD RIGHT HAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It’s not my defense of Lampley or the HBO team (I do not enjoy the HBO team), but I’m saying it’s just something he does, and not something unusual directed at Floyd or for the benefit of Manny.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 28, 2011 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
Wow, lets not go crazy
I personally enjoy Harold. The rest of them… bleh…
by journeyintosound on Nov 28, 2011 8:33 PM EST up reply actions
Harold I like, even though I fairly frequently disagree with his scoring and really disagree with his motivations for scoring the way he does. But he’s a nice guy who loves his job and the one time they gave him the shot to do color commentary, he had a hell of a lot more to say about boxing than they usually say, and he only got a couple rounds to do it.
Lampley is terrible anymore. Terrible.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 28, 2011 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
The point is...
During a fight, both fighters need to treated fairly. Despite one fighter acting like a douche outside the ring, he his still a professional, and I expect commentators to approach their jobs as professionals, not fans.
HBO has done that with Oscar De la Hoya...
It wouldn’t be the first time.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
I’ve heard PGA commentators talk shit about Tiger. I’ve heard MLB commentators talk shit about A-Rod.
I’ve never heard HBO, the network, issue a statement rebuking Mayweather.
Floyd is asuper sensitive narcissist
And a whiner when he feel ‘besieged’.
That wiould like me giving a rat’s ass about Lloyd Blankfein , chairman of Goldman Sachs, having Congress critique him and him whining about how badly he was being treated after getting TARP money
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I was waiting for a good reason to ban you. This attempt at a thought was it.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 28, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
The Raptors have fans??
"Boxing is like dealing with a ho"
-Bernard Hopkins
It really is.
I find myself going between FightHype, ESB and BLH.
Every since Charlie Zelenoff has appeared like a wild pokemon, I have been utterly infatuated with seeing this guy win the internet.
Floyd Mayweather, Jr. fan since 7/12/97 — 42-0-0 (26 KOs)
Boxing TOP 5: Mayweather, N. Donaire, S. Martinez, JM Marquez, M. Cotto
MMA TOP 5: A. Silva, Hendo, Rampage Jackson, Jon Jones, Nick Diaz
Wrestling TOP 5: Mistico/Sin Cara, Jay Lethal, Tiger Mask, HBK, Owen Hart
Try Boxong Talk
Two black Philly men who know boxing inside and out. Great Mailbags.
And they hug no one’s nuts.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
If Arum got this fight made without involving GB
that would be a bit wild, wouldn’t it?
*slowly backs off stance on arum
"After this, I'm gonna kick Bob Arum's ass."
-George Lopez
Eddie
You cannot use "Arum’ without fully understanding just how many young guns (ie. executives) who are boxing people themselves work for and with him. The 40 year olds llived prcatically their whole lives in Vegas. they are best friends with the Fertittas for instance. (best men at their weddings). They know the network executives who started in the busines at the same time. Same with the casino folks. They are the same age and speak the same language of Branding, Marketing, Social etwork, etc.
It is a fascinatinly small world, especially in Vegas/NY. They may look like enemies and act it as well…but they know them wll enough that when opportunities arise, they can uses the same relationships to make deals as fast as they can in being intractible and not making them.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
That’s the most stunning post you’ve ever produced. I am genuinely stunned.
"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."
by Oli Goldstein on Nov 28, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
Every bit is fact.
WTF is your maladjustment.
If I report facts about existing relationships, I do so to share. If I tell you what is actaully happening inside a hearing, you might consider that I actually speak to the principals…..during the hearings. If I tell you who knows who and why, listen or deny yourself real info. Your choice, son.
Go to Las Vegas. Mention the duBoef’s. Everyone knows the family. The casino people. The restaurant people. Mention them to the Fertitta’s. They are all friends. They went to schools together and went into businesses side by side. The Fertitta’s actually used TR’s lawyers to set up their original structures.
Add something original once in a while. All I hear and read from you is criticism and little and/or facts. I know, opinions are like asshols. everon has them. But c’mon. You add exactly what to this site. History. Boxing acumen. Whatever it is …share it.
BTW, nothing I have read from you stuns me. You need power to do so.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
No, no, no, pakin, you’ve got it all wrong! What stuns me is your mis-placed belief that you’re actually telling something interesting. That we didn’t know that Top Rank had other employees. That we didn’t know they had contacts in Vegas and what not. I know you think you’re some sort of Top Rank prophet, but really, when you say something genuinely interesting, then I’ll sit up and listen.
"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."
by Oli Goldstein on Nov 28, 2011 6:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Most boxosphere posters think that TR is Arum
And Arum is the devil….which is a vast oversimplification of the reality.
I’m gald you know that. rad around. Most people think its a cult of personality monolithic structure….and that just makes me laugh.
It also makes the discourse worth less.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
putting all the hate for Arum aside, Top Rank are amazing and promoting.
The atmosphere for the Pacquiao Vs Mosley fight with the ring entrences, lighting and promo videos before they came out was epic. (highlight of the night for me and most people)
Hope they do another global press tour. They better come to London this time, we feel left out.
I think Pac and JMM were going to come to London
But then it got scrapped
I would love to go if Floyd & Manny came
by Sweet science on Nov 28, 2011 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
Telling Floyd that might very well have
Brought him to the negotiating table now.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I meant to say that it could have influenced him enough to realize that Pac had very lucrative choices
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Pac had lucrative choices before,
how is this any different now?
Maybe it was all Floyd’s fault previously, and now he is ready to talk for some reason. That reason can’t be that “now Manny has options”
Manny has had options for a while. They weren’t and aren’t as profitable as a fight against Floyd, but that didn’t mean the fight got made previously.
Here’s hoping, but I don’t follow your logic in this thread.
I smoke on the mic like Smokin' Joe Frazier
*in this post,
Don’t mean to sound like I am sh***ing on you generally. I don’t have any inside knowledge here, and you do. But I’m confused why this would make a difference in this case is all.
I smoke on the mic like Smokin' Joe Frazier
Fair question
th fact is that deals like these, in other words, elusive deals, are made in real time step by step…with no definitive strycture and/or logic from one monet in time to another.
In other words, you would have to examine exactly what the circumstances were then and what they are today. If that makes sense.
Imagine for example you wanted to buy a house in a year ago. The circumstances of that particular deal will b completely different than if you wanted to buy a house in teh same neighborhood tomorrow. Different players. Different needs different option and so on.
What i meant by my statement was that Marquez represents a lot of money and a credible option that evryone knows would sell well, Floyd included. In fact, unsolicited comments out of him regarding duBoef and his sister (who s the event planner) and now Roger’s complimentary comments about Arum suggest that they were impressed by the promotion….in their backyard.
The story goes…maybe the myth…that Floyd was pissed at TR years ago when he fought at the MGM Grand because he did not get a full building mural image of himself like Brittney Spears. He wanted to be promoted like a mega star. especially in Vegas, his hime.
He saw the gate. He knows it was a great event. maybe he wants his fight promoted better. Who knows with Floyd. No one but Floyd actually.
But when he saw that Marquez was a possible candidate for Manny again…I think he may (may) have decided the time was now. Moreover, what if Manny lost to Marquez in the 4th fight. Then he…and everyone else…would lose big on the fight that should have happened.
Here…I am purely specualting. But a good fanpost would be why all of a sudden Floyd seems earger to make this fight. What has changed. Personally, Professionally. Etc.
Maybe you could write one. It would be an interesting thread.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
They are coming out of his tight butt cheeks at a pace that makes them sound even more foolish with each push
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
You're an intelligent troll. How'd yoy guess.
Where btw did you come from? Boxingscene. Or Youtube. I think Ive read your material before. Very insightful.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I have one but I preferred when this sight had a higher caliber. You’all must’ve forgot
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
There is nothing wrong with the calibre of this site
In a matter of minutes you have questioned/insulted two posters that have been here a long time & bring a lot to the content of this site.
by Sweet science on Nov 28, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
To be fair, it’s a little bit of both :-)
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Nov 28, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
iphone. typos are de rigeur
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Don’t post things about DLH’s ass if you don’t want me to make an obvious joke about it.
And lighten up while you’re at it.
It was a joke, and you asked for it.
Fair enought matt.
But Oscar is squeling for a reason. A business reason. He is trying to get a rise out of TR so that he can claim he is part of the promotion. If they engage him, they risk him inserying himself legally. Or trying.
This the sqeaky tweets.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I see little reason to put much stock into Arum supposedly meeting with vague and unnamed investor groups, especially since it comes immediately after the court of public opinion has begun turning against him and Golden Boy has put forward somewhat credible evidence that he’s not even interested in negotiating at this time. I’m sure he’ll say shortly though that Floyd turned down a Very Legitimate offer of $200 million from these Very Legitimate Investor Groups to fight on the moon or some such rubbish.
Why do they need private investors?
Not enough Money in this fight for both Arum and Floyd? Floyd is going to make a record payday on this fight and he’s not allergic to money, so everything should be good on that side. Manny’s team has agreed to the ‘Floyd-style’ testing and the money split seems to be around 50/50 which is fair. No problems there. So why does Arum need private investors? Because he might make more money from Cotto/Margo than he would make from a potential Floyd/Pac matchup…
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
Because you have to make a guarantee, and if someone out there possibly wants to help you do that, then you take the money.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 28, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
But the people who are out there helping you make the guarantee will usually demand a percentage of the revenue. If you have the money on hand, why do you need to reach out?
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Nov 28, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
Especially if these people are investment groups. The purpose of these groups is to make money and that’s it. These guys will front capital if and only if they are going to make over a certain percentage on that investment. These guys can invest capital anywhere, so that the investment has overcome the opportunity costs of not investing the cash somewhere else.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Nov 28, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions
Dude, they don't have the money on hand.
Why would Arum just sit on 50 million or 100 million or whatever it is in cash or cash equivalents? That money will be locked up in escrow accounts too.
You are basically asking, why do people need banks? Why do people ever take loans? Same reason here.
I smoke on the mic like Smokin' Joe Frazier
Spot on
The Question barely deserves an answer. But feel fre to try.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Because he runs a high overhead/large investment type business…that’s why they would have cash on hand. The whole point of their business is to put up a ton of money in investment and advertising to get an eventual payoff. Their whole business model requires them to have a ton of cash on hand, yet they need the investment groups for the most profitable fight in history.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Nov 28, 2011 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
I give up,
sorry dude. The comments of a boxing blog are not the place to educate you on basic finance concepts. Also, really a promoter exists to, you know, promote the fight. Not necessarily to have cash on hand.
Pakinpowers analogy about film studios is pretty pertinent though.
I smoke on the mic like Smokin' Joe Frazier
Thanks jhf884.
For thise who seen they think they understand, Watch Hugo, Spieberg’s latest and greatest mega film.
Read the credits till the end. Look at the list of private equity firms that financed the film.
Directors direct. Producers produce. Financiers finance. Promoters promote.
Ask why fights were made in Kinshasha and Manila in the 1970’s with Ali anf Foreman and later with Frazier. That is who paid to make the rhen most lucrative fights in history.
Fights follow the money. Fighter fight for money. Whoever has the most has the best chance of putting on the fights. If you dont have enough, you lose your talent and the right to feature them.
Always was that way. Always will be.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I would think that the site fee would be able to cover a large amount of the expenses that need to be paid pre-fight. The site fee is going to be around $40-50 million which is already a huge amount of cash and then to need more from people who are going to demand at least 10% interest seems a little weird.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Nov 28, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
Because that is how business works
You make a film, you find private equity film finance.
You promoter a fight, the more you have to promote, the better the chance of it being well produced.
That doesn’t guarantee a good film, or match. But it ensures that it will go on.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
HEY THERE!
I’m closing this thread only because it’s gone off the front page and there’s enough here that leans toward me needing to moderate if it goes any further that I don’t want to leave it where it is. IF YOU WANT TO CONTINUE ANYTHING, start a FanPost about any topic you like. Seriously, go ahead and do it if you feel the desire.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
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