Cotto vs Margarito 2: Emanuel Steward Weighs In On the Fight
by Scott Christ on Nov 30, 2011 10:13 PM EST
in Boxing News Analysis
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In a terrific Wall Street Journal piece on Saturday's rematch between Miguel Cotto and Antonio Margarito, written by Gordon Marino, Hall of Fame trainer and HBO analyst Emanuel Steward gave his thoughts on the fight:
"Miguel is faster and has the better skills," said Emanuel Steward, who once trained Cotto. "And as one of the most popular Puerto Rican fighters in history, he will have a huge Puerto Rican audience screaming for him in New York."
A Freud among boxing gurus, Steward then paused and said, "But psychologically you have to wonder whether or not the revenge element will be the main factor, or maybe Miguel will somewhere deep inside feel intimidated by the terrible beating he took last time. We'll see."
Honestly, I don't think it takes a "Freud among boxing gurus" to come up with these thoughts: Cotto is a more skilled fighter than Margarito, same as he was in 2008. But that psychological and mental edge is, I think, entirely with Margarito.
This reminds me of that whole off-putting debate about Miguel Cotto saying he's not willing to die in the ring, which I found to be just about the stupidest goddamn debate I've seen rational people have in a long while.
Here's my take on that (since I can't beat 'em, I'll join 'em): I think asking Miguel Cotto and Antonio Margarito the moronic question, "r u willing 2 die in the ring durrr," is a different question to each man. Margarito has that machismo-fueled "warrior mentality" when he says he would.
But then there's Cotto. This is a man who is, without question I believe, psychologically damaged from the first Margarito fight. Either because he truly believes that Margarito used plaster, which in turn makes him almost think that someone actually tried to kill him in the ring, or because he's not certain that Margarito used anything deep down, and that in itself is a tough thought; the idea that Margarito so viciously battered him without any illegal aid, just pure, old-fashioned boxing grittiness.
So when you ask Margarito, who doesn't have those doubts, whatever they are, swirling around in his head, "Would you die in the ring?" he'll say yes like most tough guy fighters would when put on the spot with that question. But I get the impression that Cotto has thought about it deeper than that -- and that it's not the same question to him that it is to most of these guys.
But anyway, I think Steward's analysis and concerns are pretty much spot-on, and you should read the WSJ article.
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You know what kind of bothers me about the whole discourse surrounding this fight? People have been talking about Cotto like he’s Kermit Cintron almost. I mean this is a man who after the beating he took from Margarito went into a Pacquiao fight basically training himself and took a hellacious beating including 3 or 4 kd’s. And then he came back again. And sure, he’s fought against weaker competition since, but he could’ve simply given up if he was so mentally weak as everybody’s making him out to be. And he didn’t have to take this fight either.
Bob Arum would promote Lucifer himself if he could put asses in the seats.
I don’t think the critique is that mentally Cotto is on Cintron’s level as a fighter in general, meaning no matter who you put in front he is a significantly mentally weak fighter. I think the critique is more in the sense that compared to Margarito he is mentally weaker. Margarito seems to bring out the weak spots in Cotto’s mental make up to the surface, while Cotto seems to have no negative effect at all on Margarito’s mind.
I get it. I understand what the critique is. But I think the discourse surrounding the fight has made a caricature of Miguel Cotto’s mental state. They’re painting him as this coward who, as soon as he gets hit by MArgarito, will retreat and take a knee just because he’s in the ring with this MONSTER!
Bob Arum would promote Lucifer himself if he could put asses in the seats.
I believe you are going a bit too far saying people paint him as a coward, but fairly or not Cotto has given the impression that everything Margarito says or does gets under his skin and he reacts accordingly. In the first fight against Margarito and his fight against Manny, when things where going according to plan he was great, but once he felt overpowerd he changed tactics and started to backtrack. In boths situations he eventually reacted and adjusted his fighting to each situation, and in both you could see his priorities changed from winning to staying in one piece as much as possible.
Margarito is the complete opposite in his fights against Cotto and Pacquiao, even when he was being pounded from every angle and things were not going well for him, he did not react to that, he did not deviate from his plan and in both cases winning or trying to win came before any self preservation thought.
All the interviews, faceoffs, 24/7 for this fight have confirmed that that way of thinking from both remains. Cotto gets bothered by what Margarito says, he reacts to it and feels like answering on the spot. On the other hand Margarito seems to feed of of what Cotto says, he’s decided he is going to be the villian and appears to enjoy everything Cotto says, making fun of it, which in turn angers Cotto even more. You get the feeling that whatever Margarito says he says so because he wants to say it, no matter what Cotto says or doesn’t say. The dynamic you see here is the same from the fights, no matter what happens around him, Margarito sticks to his plan and doesn’t deviate from it, rain or shine, he just marches forward toward his objective. Cotto seems to be more reactive and adjust his priorites according to the situation.
To put it in simpler terms, whether or not Margarito can dictate his terms to Cotto, he won’t let himself be dictated by Cotto’s. He’ll do his thing whether it works or not. Cotto seems like someone who if he can’t dictate things, he allows himself to be dictated by the other fighter.
As a big Cotto fan I would disagree. If you look at Cottos whole career it has been a series of car crashes which he always found a way to win just look at the Torres or Mosleys fights.
I would say Marg and Pac fights are exceptions. Ofcourse there is big doubt over Cotto v Marg 1 and Cotto recieved to some huge kds early vs Pac which would explain why he couldn’t come back.
Now if Margs hands were loaded. Then the first time he punches Cotto, it’s Cotto who is going to break out in a massive grin.
All this Margarito getting under Cotto's skin stuff you are talking about, I just don't see it at all,
judging from 24/7 and Face Off. I am trying to understand your interpretation but not getting it. To me, Cotto seemed completely calm and collected. I see his admission that he would not die in the ring as speaking from a position of strength—strength is being able to speak honestly from a position of truth, whereas Margarito’s machismo strikes me as a smokescreen.
I do not believe Margarito has gotten under Cotto’ skin. To the contrary, I saw a visibly flustered and frustrated Margarito reacting to Cotto when he showed him the photo of his gloves during the first Face Off.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
I would add that while it’s true what Solis says that Margarito seems to be making light of some things Cotto says, his reactions in the press conference indicated he is, indeed, bothered by the things Cotto is saying about him. Bringing in Cotto’s fight with his uncle and calling him a “little girl” are actually signs, in my book, that Cotto is getting to him and he’s getting in his head.
Bob Arum would promote Lucifer himself if he could put asses in the seats.
Cotto has a difficult time adjusting in the ring. Poor back-up plans. If Margo makes it necessary for Cotto to adjust,
it could spell doom for the Puerto Rican
Margarito is a singularly focused type who fights until he is either pulled away or is scooped up, but he never quits. In this respect—and I don’t mean this as an insult—he is almost animalistic in his myopic focus to stalk, stun and kill.
Miguel Cotto is mentally weaker in my mind and thinks too much about the fights and what’s going to happen in there
Margo also seems to be winning the war of words. IMO
"Boxing is the red light district of sports."
—Jimmy Cannon
Margarito is not a smart fighter in the ring. He is the very definition of one dimensional.
He always brings the same plan. Pressure. Margarito will not have any surprises for Cotto.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
I still want to know what's in Margarito's head.
Most of these unanswered questions can be answered, if we really know what happened that night and Margarito does know what actually happened.
But mentally Margo does have the upperhand, but if Cotto can find ways to better defend himself against the much slower Margarito, his confidence should grow and it could be a tougher night for Tony.
what's in Margarito's head?
apparently granite in a carbon fiber case with spider silk lining.
I started to go down the path of thinking what Margarito might think if he hit Cotto with a solid shot and didn’t hurt him…but the dude is a zombie that will just keep coming.
by Sentimental on Nov 30, 2011 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
This: http://youtu.be/OAyVfmhgk0s
Bob Arum would promote Lucifer himself if he could put asses in the seats.
that
Is pretty damn funny.
by Sentimental on Dec 1, 2011 12:06 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
That's precisly it! The best post on this thread, Clove
"Boxing is the red light district of sports."
—Jimmy Cannon
it doesn't take a Freud...
but I think you and manny are referring to slightly different aspects. i think the psychological impact you describe is what Cotto has had to deal with in preparing for this fight and what he’ll deal with it up until he steps into the ring…and maybe a little bit after. i think what manny is talking about is the question of how Cotto will react if/when the fight gets tough. [Cue up Teddy Atlas here and his talk of deep, dark places.] That’s the most unpredictable element. Of course, if Cotto hasn’t handled the first aspect that you describe, then we can pretty much predict his reaction in the fact of the second.
And if it comes to it, it’s not like a self-preservation reaction would be unreasonable. Cotto has given fight fans all they deserve and them some. He’s run the gauntlet, and I don’t think he owes fans more.
I understand what Manny was talking about, and agree with him. The latter part wasn’t addressing Manny’s statement, it just made me think of that idiotic debate. “Is Cotto soft because he doesn’t say he’d die in the ring??”
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Nov 30, 2011 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
got it. i thought you were putting gloss on manny’s analysis. i guess missed the part where you clearly said “here’s my take on [issue x.]” and i agree that it’s totally a moronic debate because it’s a debate that can only happen if you ignore each guy’s perspective. otherwise, like you say, their responses to that question pretty much make sense.
by Sentimental on Nov 30, 2011 11:37 PM EST up reply actions
Say or think what you will...
But this Saturday….get prepared for a real fight.
As in balls to the wall. Last man standing.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I agree with the mental state of Cotto
I wonder if Cotto has prepared himself for when he gets hit flush by Margarito and it feels like it did the first fight. How will he mentally deal with that? Knowing this time there are no wraps.
I see Margarito quite differently than Scott.
I see him as a bully who has had his facade, his integrity, and his face busted. He has been showed up as a cheat to whole world, and he doesn’t like it. All he has left is machismo. Nothing to say. He knows what his power was based on and why he will lack it in the ring this time. He knows it better than anyone, and it will be on his mind Saturday. I also saw Cotto fluster him and get under his skin with the photo presentation during Face Off, and I saw a calm, cool Cotto.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
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