Jermain Taylor and Andre Dirrell Return to Showtime (Video)
by Scott Christ on Dec 21, 2011 7:19 PM EST
in Boxing Video - Showtime
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PrintHere's the little commercial spot for the returns of Jermain Taylor and Andre Dirrell on December 30, live on a "special" ShoBox that ain't that special:
Taylor (28-4-1, 17 KO) hasn't fought since he was nastily knocked out by Arthur Abraham in October 2009, so by the time he's back in the ring he will have been gone for 26 months. Some are concerned about his health, but he passed his Nevada physical a couple months back (this fight was set to happen in August originally) and is going back to middleweight with original trainer Pat Burns, a guy he never should have fired in the first place.
I don't have any real issue with Taylor fighting. If he can pass a physical, and it's Nevada and not some fringe commission, then it's up to him, and best of luck to him. I always liked Taylor as a fan; just feel he didn't always get the most out of himself that he could have.
But Andrew Fruman and I were talking about this recently on Twitter, and the two of us have the same question: What's the upside? Say he beats Jessie Nicklow, a club fighter. Then what? Another fight on that level, another two on that level? OK. ... Then what? Another fight at top level where someone blasts him? I mean is there really a long-term future in the 33-year-old former champ at this point? It's highly doubtful.
As for Dirrell (19-1, 13 KO), I'll, uh...pass.
Just curious: Is anyone totally against this card, and do you plan on avoiding it even if you have nothing better to do?
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What's next for taylor
I could honestly see there being a third Pavlik fight if both guys need a comeback win against a big name next year. I pray to God that Dibella doesn’t try to throw him in with Martinez next year.
I’ll watch it more to see Andre Dirrell, who was a good boxer, and who is probably the most victimized boxer fighting today (by Abraham in the first instance, and by the boxing public in the second place).
a
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
Agreed. The guy is a talent (he boxed Froch’s ears off and was robbed in England), and I’m glad he’s back.
by The Boxer Rebellion on Dec 22, 2011 12:07 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
+1
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on Dec 22, 2011 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
He was never, ever going to fight Andre Ward. They had no venue, they had no contract, they had nothing. Nothing. And then he pulls out with “neurological issues” from uh well the family doctor and THEN. and THEN. Dr Shaw…High. just before “the fight is going to take place.” And now that the Super Six is over, surprise! he’s back!
I don’t buy what he’s selling. Ward had to “get that paper right” and then Dirrell begged out of answering simple questions by whispering for help. He did all of this on camera. He made himself look bad, made himself look questionable, and frankly I do not understand a willingness to just believe him. He’s presented no evidence that he should be taken at his word — he’s presented plenty of evidence that something wasn’t quite right, and that the story didn’t add up. He answered questions like a 9 year old trying to piece together a story. He’s a worse actor than Tyrin Turner in Menace II Society.
I mean if people want to be all excited he’s back, great. I’m not but I’m just one dude. I don’t think boxing is starving for an Andre Dirrell. But if you want an answer as to what “the hate for this guy” is, that’s part of it.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Dec 22, 2011 3:39 AM EST up reply actions
I’ll be trashed for putting it this way, no doubt, but his story, the whole thing, really reminds me powerfully of the bad old days when women who were raped were 1. disbelieved, 2, put on trial worse than their assailants were, 3, having had their personalities negatively affected, usually in a big way by the whole horror, often becoming hesitant, unsure, hyper- defensive, paranoid, and hostile. Then, when that happened, it was, and still is in some parts of the world, used as proof that they were lying all along. They no longer come across well.
Well, obviously it’s not exactly the same thing, but he was certainly unfairly violated, received a head injury (which will also produce some of the symptoms above described in your comment) and, damaged, the symptoms ot the damage are used as proof against him. The whole progression is too familiar to me from another arena to go along with. It really reminds me of it a lot. It bothers me. And otherwise, I hold no special brief for Andre Dirrell, no major fanhood—other than really not liking what’s happened to him all down the line, just feel neutral about him. The timing of his return isn’t especially significant tom me, as the fight was supposed to happen earlier and got postponed, as happens all the time in boxing.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
While I didn't like his performance against Froch,
and I sort of see where Scott is coming from, this will be all put to bed as long as Ward is the boxer Dirrell is gunning for now that he is coming back. If he starts looking other directions, it’ll appear like backing out of the tournament was part of a scheme to avoid Ward. Ward is top dog at SMW, the guy Dirrell didn’t get a chance to fight in the S6, so there is no real other SMW to be gunning for. Let’s see where Andre goes. I’ll withhold judgment.
his story, the whole thing, really reminds me powerfully of the bad old days when women who were raped
Oh! Well then.
The thing is, I have video tape evidence of every moment of the Andre Dirrell saga, including the Abraham fight, and I’ve got questions every single step of the way, from the punch to the post-fight conversation with Gary Shaw where he did his best Florida from “Good Times,” to the way he purposely avoided Ward — look, he could have just said, “Guys, I’m injured, I’m sorry, I have to pull out of the fight” but that was not their initial story, which was about money and how they had to get enough money for the fight to happen. The “neurological problems” from Dr. My Promoter’s Name…High, yeah, him, came up at a questionable juncture. Also, to be really clear, it was pretty well-known he wasn’t going to fight Andre Ward every step of the way, and none of it was related to injury.
Also if he has a brain injury, why is anyone excited to see him return? Did it get better like a broken foot?
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Dec 22, 2011 6:48 AM EST up reply actions
I’m concerned and curious, and willing to be supportive, but not excited to see him return. But if he’s going to make a try for it, I’ll watch—maybe you’re right and he’s OK, I’d much prefer he be a scam than he be permanently head injured.
But if the whole thing is a ruse, what for? What did he gain by not fighting for, what, 22 months? Nobody does that just to avoid one fight, that’s too much to lose over just one fight. Even saying he expected the tournament to be shorter, if he felt well he could still have fought. Not being in the tournament was a lot to lose, no fights all that time = lost income, career time, and exposure. That’s a lot of “lose.” What did he gain? He gained nothing that I can perceive. All that just to not fight one fight? Makes no sense. Seems like loss all down the line to me.
And although the old saying “head injuries don’t go away” is usually true, he’s young, and sometimes they do heal. I’m hoping for that for him. I actually know an 80 yr. old who is really apparently absolutely OK for two years now after double subdural hematomas (usually double fatal), so although it’s unusual, it’s not impossible, especially with those in really good condition who never smoked, drank, etc. (elderly guy a preacher lifelong, very clean living).
And, “Oh! Well then” aside, give some thought to the parallel. It’s pretty stark, really. Starting with, never will I believe he was acting when he was KO’d. Watched it a million times: He was KO’d, nasty one, lateral head snap,the weepiness and confusion—if he could act that well then, why can’t he act that well subsequently? Personally I think it will have ruined him, but as I say, I’d rather it were a scam, to what purpose I can’t imagine, than that he be permanently damaged. He’s certainly damned coming or going—if he really did heal, he’ll be perceived as a scam forever, and if he’s clearly not the fighter he was, well, how wonderful is that?
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
And, "Oh! Well then" aside, give some thought to the parallel. It’s pretty stark, really.
Well, we can disagree on this and I’ll only say that I think it’s a fairly dramatic painting of Andre Dirrell’s, uh, “situation.”
if he could act that well then, why can’t he act that well subsequently?
To be clear, I don’t think Florida from “Good Times” was a very good actress, and I don’t think Dirrell is a very good one either.
Here’s the thing: If he starts having good fights and proves himself a top talent (and I think he’s very talented), I won’t really care about any of this in the long run. Boxing is full of liars, exaggerators, amateur con men, professional con men, and jerks. I don’t count him as special among them, but I truly don’t believe in his story.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Dec 22, 2011 8:19 AM EST up reply actions
another thing
and if he’s clearly not the fighter he was, well, how wonderful is that?
What fighter was he? The guy who did well against Abraham and then looked like he was cracking under pressure? The guy who had a foul-fest with Froch? The guy who ran for his life against Curtis Stevens?
Anyway, if he’s really super injured and something bad happens or the like, then that’s on the California commission and the standards of boxing. it’s certainly not on me or anyone else who has doubts about Andre’s tale.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Dec 22, 2011 8:21 AM EST up reply actions
From the Froch fight I thought that there was something a bit ‘off’ about Dirrell, in that his physical gifts do not seem to match his mentality. In this sense Dirrell joins Ortiz and Khan in the ‘strange guys with talent’ category.
I’m not going to get on Dirrell’s back over the Abraham fight. He was clearly fouled. However, it did seem pretty clear from his team that there was no indication that the Ward fight was going to happen and up until the official cancellation there was nothing to suggest that Dirrell was having problems.
In Dirrell’s defence though, the same could be said for Kessler, though the fact that he chose to drop a belt and pull out of a fight against Allan Green makes it difficult to really come up with accusations of ducking and feigning injury.
I am willing to give Dirrell a chance. The 168 is still pretty deep and has two recognised top guys in Bute and Ward. Injury of no injury, Dirrell has to take these type of fights if he wants to be taken seriously.
Nobody will read this and care and why should they?
by Eoin_not_ian on Dec 22, 2011 8:21 AM EST up reply actions
In Dirrell’s defence though, the same could be said for Kessler, though the fact that he chose to drop a belt and pull out of a fight against Allan Green makes it difficult to really come up with accusations of ducking and feigning injury.
There’s also the fact that he really did have surgery.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Dec 22, 2011 8:22 AM EST up reply actions
Dr Shaw-High prefers non-surgical procedures I guess.
Nobody will read this and care and why should they?
by Eoin_not_ian on Dec 22, 2011 8:27 AM EST up reply actions
Cant stand Dirrell, but interested how JT does.
He shouldnt be @ SMW though, probably fare better at middleweight tbh, less stacked
by Shitali Klitschko on Dec 22, 2011 12:26 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Why do people hate dirrell?
I think im out of the loop on this one.
Just about to ask the same thing myself.
I think it’s because he exhibits symptoms of the classic whiner/runner combo, as seen at its most potent vs. Froch.
There was also his withdrawal from the Super Six (after Abraham, am I right in thinking he would’ve faced his friend, Ward, next?) with some fandangled EYE-TO-BRAIN thing (medical term) though I give any fighting a man a pass where matters like those are concerned.
I thought he actually showed some dog in the Froch fight despite the whining and moaning, and would’ve got the W in plenty of other places. Fabulous skillset, but perhaps it’s ultimately limited by his mental strength at the highest level.
by abcdefghijklost on Dec 22, 2011 2:10 AM EST up reply actions
so he did. i should absolutely stop skimming.
by abcdefghijklost on Dec 22, 2011 7:39 AM EST up reply actions
I replied after you posted, you didn’t skim as much as you think.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Dec 22, 2011 8:36 AM EST up reply actions
Here's my take
Tghe super six started with Six guys and only three foughtb all of their fights. That means that three did not.
Ward won and deserves props. Froch warred but lost valiantly. AA is an ass but he stuck it out, as humiliating as it must have been.
Taylor righfully stepped out and all but retired…and he is back now.
Kessler pulled to sidelines after being surprised and beaten by Ward and taken to the limit by Froch. Mikkel could do so because he has options. And time was on his side.
Dirrell fought and IMO showed the blueprint to Ward and everyone else in beating Froch and Abraham. I would argue with all those who say he embarrased himself with his ‘actions’, that he embarrassed and revealed how limited both Froch and AA were.
Bute stood outside and now awaits his choice of lucrative opportunities without having fought fighters on the level of teh SS competitors. Good for him. He had and still has options. But bully for him as he has not proven himself to either himself or this observer.
So now, Kessler is sitting in Denmark/Europe exploring his actions. Taylor is fighting again. And Dirrell, the better boxer of all of them has returned.
That’s three who stepped out who are now back… and in. I will treat them all the same but expect the most personally from Dirrell.
We shall see
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
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