Pacquiao vs Marquez IV: Fight Possible For May 5 With Mayweather Headed to Jail
by Scott Christ on Dec 28, 2011 4:58 PM EST
in Boxing News Analysis
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Juan Manuel Marquez is hoping that he can take Floyd Mayweather Jr's jail time as a blessing for himself, and land a fourth fight with Manny Pacquiao on May 5, a date that could now be open for HBO pay-per-view if Mayweather isn't able to hold the date.
Mayweather was recently sentenced to 90 days in jail in Nevada, and will report to authorities on January 6. Mayweather had the date set aside with HBO, and with the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, but the latter may not be any issue with Pacquiao vs Marquez IV (although surely the MGM would love to fill a potentially open date with this fight).
Marquez is still adamant that he will not fight Pacquiao again in Vegas, where he feels he's been given the shaft on three occasions.
The May 5 date is, of course, a huge fight date -- not just because it's Cinco de Mayo and thus tied into Mexican fight culture, but simply because it has become a yearly event weekend. Even without Mexican fighters, the first Saturday in May is now a staple for a major event -- Pacquiao vs Hatton in 2009, Mayweather vs Mosley in 2010, Pacquiao vs Mosley in 2011, etc. -- but a Mexican fighter makes it all the better.
And right now, there's no bigger Mexican star than Juan Manuel Marquez. I have no doubt that a fourth fight between the two would sell big on the weekend, or any weekend for that matter.
Whether or not the fight attracts the interest of the hardcore fans is another story, but we're not the target audience for these fights. They're looking to rope in those who can be sold the fight, and with the shockingly close nature of the November 12 bout, I think there's still a large audience out there for a fourth fight, perhaps those who haven't watched the first two fights 100 times over the years.
The only roadblocks in making this fight are probably from Marquez's side, and that's not a shot at Marquez. He's going to want to be very well compensated for the fight, and I mean north of the $5 million he was paid in November, they might not be able to get him to go to Vegas (I wouldn't bury the possibility, though), and it may all just come down to, basically, how much Marquez actually wants the fight as compared to how much Marquez isn't against the fight, so long as the terms are great for him.
If they did not go to Vegas, Texas would be the most likely destination. Like Nevada, Texas has no income taxes for fighters and promoters to worry about, and they could likely do a good crowd at the Alamodome in San Antonio or Reliant Arena in Houston. Cowboys Stadium in Arlington would surely come up in talks, too, but I'm just not certain there's a great deal of interest in going back there after so-so results with the Clottey and Margarito fights.
Of course the big reality of taking the fight out of Vegas is that money is lost. With the ability to charge a ton of money for tickets, plus the site fees the casinos can pay, gates in Vegas are huge compared to gates elsewhere. A Manny Pacquiao or Floyd Mayweather fight means a lift not just for the venue of the fight that week, but the entire city and more than just one casino. They bring huge business to Vegas and in a still-slumping economy, that means more than ever right now.
In other words, I think there has to be some way to get the fight in Vegas. Maybe instead of Nevada officials, the WBO (whose title Pacquiao holds) could appoint respected international officials. Given the money to be made, I can't imagine Keith Kizer and the NSAC fighting too many battles here; they need these fights.
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You spin me right round baby, right round, like a record baby...
Again? I mean, I liked the third fight, but it’s gonna be the SAME THING. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills here!!!
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
Someone post that Pacquiao/Marquez - 50 pic..
Surely Manny wouldn’t take this fight unless he feels he was overconfident/underprepared last time? He can get paid fighting whoever, It’s not like another close decision will do his legacy too many favours, and obviously a loss wouldn’t.
come on not again
id much rather see pacman fight somebody new — anybody new, i don’t really care
bradley, mike jones, peterson… refreshing! Someone new would be nice… someone young and good would be nice. Not a knock on JMM, just a knock on the 4th fight… a draw, and two close decisions for Pacquiao, I thought JMM at least had the 3rd fight and many felt he won the 2nd, but gosh, not again!!!
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
marquez should have been a "big money maker" like Pacquiao
but why didn’t it happen?
"Effort without Efficiency is nonsense.." -rk mag
Management that was violently inept. That’s what.
by VirtualBalboa on Dec 28, 2011 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
Just b/c he’s just as good if not better of a fighter than pacquiao doesn’t make him a money maker. Personality, ring style, and target audience also play a big role. Also, Pacquiao can speak English which appeals to the Western world. Frazier was just as good as Ali, but was always on the B-side. That’s just life.
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
Marquez absolutely could have made a lot more money than he did. He should have at least been on par as a star with guys like Barrera and Morales, which he is now, but for years he was third fiddle, and distant. Balboa’s right — his management was insanely horrible for years.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Dec 28, 2011 8:31 PM EST up reply actions
Frazier wasn’t just on the B-side. He was a huge name for a short period of time before his career flamed out.
But to the point we’re discussing here: Marquez had an offer for 3/4 of a million dollars to fight Pacquaio in basically an immediate rematch of their first fight. His people turned it down because they demanded over a million. Instead, they put him into meaningless title defenses against the likes of Victor Polo that only caused people to dislike him even more (he was considered “boring” by a lot of people then), then ends up telling all the networks to take a hike when they weren’t going to buy the Chris John fight. So it goes to purse bid. And the Indonesian promoter wins the bid for pennies, and Marquez lost his crown in Indonesia for $30K. Not much longer and he was signed to Golden Boy and his management was change drastically. He got bounce back fights and then he’s been in nothing but relevant, important bouts since (minus Ramos).
by VirtualBalboa on Dec 28, 2011 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
That’s certainly the Top Rank narrative on Marquez’s career management, though I see little reason to accept it as 100% accurate.
That's not just the Top Rank spin
Before he signed with GBP, Nacho was his promoter also, and while Nacho is a great trainer, he should stick to training. He didn’t have the resources to promote someone properly, nor the negotiating instincts to get Marquez good deals.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Dec 29, 2011 7:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Well Top Rank was also his promoter, and the whole “Marquez turned down $750,000” story comes directly from Arum. Marquez wanted to negotiate for a more significant increase in pay coming off a FOTY contender, and instead Arum treated it as a take-it-or-leave-it deal and was essentially more interested in resurrecting the career of Morales at that point (Morales of course being another one of his own guys he didn’t want getting in the ring with Marquez during their time together).
The John fight was likewise held simply to get out of the Top Rank contract; if we’re treating that as the turning point after which he went on to make better fights, then we have to be honest in recognizing the fact that it was the moment he got the hell away from Arum.
Morales was the bigger attraction in Mexico
By far. Always was and very will may always be.
His style is what electrified audiences and beloved him to his countrymen.
Brick is spot on. Nacho is a great trainer and an awful promoter.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
So what if Morales was more popular? If that’s the excuse, that just indicates that Top Rank didn’t ever have his interests at heart while THEY were ostensibly his promoter; Marquez doing what it took to get out of that situation isn’t an indictment on him or those around him.
The stars always gets star attention. That is how it works at CAA, IMG, and the real world.
Marquez made some choices that worked and others that didn’t. The one that cost him most IMO is his style.
Very…how do you say in Spanish….Un-Mexican.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
You’re right, he was too technically skilled to ever be successful. What was he thinking?. He should have known better than to listen to his father and Nacho when he was learning the sport.
I am just stating facts that have impacted his career. His style is but one factor but not a small one.
Being technical and no aggressive is fantastic but it is less crowd pleasing. In Mexico and in most places.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
He hated Arum so much he came back. lol
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
He’s independent as far as I know. Not having to sign a deal with Top Rank was one of his conditions for the third Pacquiao fight.
Michael Woods described his story in an article called Unjustly Unloved some time ago
And in doing so pointed to JMM’s style as a factor which for years failed to engage his own boxing mad countrymen.
“Even after his now near-annual Fight of the Year candidate in 2008, against Pacquiao, fewer than 100,000 people bought his pay-per-view bout with Joel Casamayor in September. Even relatively close to the border of his native Mexico, Marquez was not the fan favorite on Saturday against Houston hometown hero Diaz.
Marquez is a magnificent fighter – "Juan Manuel Magnificent," according to this very boxing site – and loads of fun to watch, plus he’s the best Mexican fighter left standing and he pledges every fight is for his home country. And yet, he hasn’t totally won over that boxing-mad land or its descendants.
Career mismanagement didn’t help. An early tendency toward technical, cautious boxing didn’t help. Living in the shadow of two more beloved Mexican fighters, Marco Antonio Barrera and Erik Morales, didn’t help. But all of those things appear to be behind him now. Best case scenario: He gets the winner of Pacquiao-Hatton. And this time, finally, he gets the paycheck to go along with the now-universal recognition. After his most recent performance, teams for both Pacquiao and Hatton are thankfully mentioning him as a possible future opponent."
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
JMM also didn't have a DLH
to get himself over against.
Both Floyd and Manny owe Oscar big.
New blood's needed
I agree with most of the comments here — it’s time for Manny to fight someone new, fresh and younger. Bradley, Peterson, Jones are all good choices. Don’t see how a 4th fight does anybody involved any good, and doesn’t spark interest in the sport to the more general, non-Mexican public. And imagine how boring HBO’s 24/7 would be!
Don’t see how a 4th fight does anybody involved any good
$
doesn’t spark interest in the sport to the more general, non-Mexican public
Nobody’s doing much to spark interest. Boxing is what it is. It’s a niche sport. Someone bigger than Floyd or Manny needs to come along, and by “someone,” I mean about 7 of them.
imagine how boring HBO’s 24/7 would be
Ugh, yeah. The last Pacquiao-Marquez 24/7 was dreadful enough. I’d vote to just skip it this time. Pacquiao’s story is older than dirt for the format and Marquez is a great fighter but not much for dramatic reality TV. He doesn’t even drink piss anymore.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Dec 28, 2011 8:34 PM EST up reply actions
Speaking of "bigger" than Manny or Floyd...
…who thinks that Seth Mitchell might be the real deal (with apologies to Evander)?
I saw the fight in person, it just looked like a slugfest. Mitchell looked like he beat a last minute replacement. I could tell the opponent was gonna get knocked out… I took one look at his under developed neck, and thought “that chin’s not gonna hold”, and it didn’t. I don’t see much in him, but that’s just me.
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
“two fighters on opposite ends of the globe… fighting for legacy…. fighting for ETERNITY… one fight didn’t settle it, two fights, 24 rounds, none the closer… it took a third fight to decide NOTHING… after 36 rounds of stalemate, non sense, and bad judging, the FOURTH time’s the charm… boxers often find solace in repetition… repetition that leads to glory and pride, forever, and for their country blah blah blah…”
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1947263899984&set=a.1897411133696.78562.1794150088&type=1
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
You gotta link in the body of a comment, not in the title.
The title just links to the title.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Dec 28, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks bro.
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
“that’s right, take’ em to the body!” ~Emmanuel Steward.
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
by cylee1180 on Dec 28, 2011 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1947263899984&set=a.1897411133696.78562.1794150088&type=1
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
Wild thought...
How about Brandon Rios stepping up in weight to fight Pacquiao? Too soon, I suppose, but he meets both the fresh face and Cinco de Mayo criteria. And the fight would be action-packed while it lasted, a sure KO…
Another face first fighter? Pacquiao eats those guys for breakfast. An entertaining fight yes, but not competitive. Anyone who can box and has power is gonna give Pacquiao problems…
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
Really?
You are going on record for saying if they fought tomorrow RIos would stop Pac in 8?
by Kory Kitchen on Dec 28, 2011 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
Still think this is a good fight to make...
An entertaining KO is just what Manny (and the potential Floyd showdown) needs right now. Plus, Rios is a Top Rank fighter, carries the Margarito “baggage” (anybody remember his dis of Freddie Roach?) and will live to see many more good paydays with a competitive showing, which is guaranteed for a “come to fight” guy like him. The more I make the argument, the more I like this fight. Who’s got B-Arum’s cell number?
I love the fight
I’m a massive Brandon RIos fan. Pacquiao could be ready to be taken by a younger. agressive opponent that has better defense than what people give him credit for (at least in my opinion).
by Kory Kitchen on Dec 28, 2011 9:52 PM EST up reply actions
RIOS IN 8
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Dec 28, 2011 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
manny in 10. well depends which manny shows up…
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
I’d say Pacquiao within 6. I’m not even convinced that Rios is the best at 135 and I see little reason to simply assume his power and chin will move up two weight classes with him.
Pacquiao wins at this point in their careers...
…but a LOT of punches will be thrown, some blood will be shed and everyone will feel like they got their money’s worth, while Manny’s rep as a KO artist will be restored. And a new big-fight name will be born in Rios, win or lose. Also, imagine how entertaining the Rios end of HBO’s 24/7 will be? Bob, make the fight.
Sooner or later
Everyone is beatable. And Manny is by his own admission close to the end of his career.
Rios will bang until his daddy takes his TBird away. The question is whether or not he will see the punches that on his best days have no trouble finding him. We know Manny can hurt anybody so my guess is that if he gets to Rios early and hard, down goes Brandon.
If not, we might get a war to remember.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I would DIE to see this fight. Lots of leather thrown with seriously bad intentions! I think Rios would do well – win or lose he would put a few dents in Manny.
It is not the mountain we conquer but ourselves.
- Edmund Hillary
by Stevosaurus Rex on Dec 29, 2011 2:16 AM EST up reply actions
No sure my heart could handle the excitement of tha fight.
I think Rios would be an amazing last fight for Pacquio. End his career giving that fans a bloody battle, who ever he winner how ever long it lasts. Would rather see that figh at 140lb. Im starting to think the un-natural 147 extra weight for Manny is taking its toll.
Fighting bigger men for the past few years certainly has taken its toll. I think beating Margarito was the turning point in energy applied. He was hurt, exhausted and just plain spent after that fight.
And it was made very clear thereafter that he was finished fighting ‘up’ in weight.
Whether or not he does so is another matter. This is ‘prize’ fighting after all.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Anyone see this???
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=13US7v1f0Y0
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
some hot chick hanging around Pacquiao…
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
I looked at it, and fwiw, I think the whole point is that he moves away from the girl when she sits down next to him on the bench, and then starts with that laugh he does when he thinks the whole thing’s silly and is too polite to say so. Maybe I’m blind, but that’s how I saw it—“groupies all over, never get anywhere with me” type of thing. Whole thing was staged.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
It would honestly be pretty funny if he won and just ruined years of bullshit. Plus then they’d just fight a fifth time and everyone would pull their hair out again.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Dec 28, 2011 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
I want this fight to happen and I want Pac to get KTFO to be honest
I know it isn’t his fault for getting the DEC over JMM but it has to end.
getting robbed 2-3 times IMO just disgusting.
I felt physically sick after the 3rd fight.
If JMM can brutally Knock Pac the fukk out it would make my year.
Just to see the look on that scumbag Bob Arum’s face in the post fight presser.
Don’t even care if Mayweather fight happened after that.
We all know what would happen in that fight either way
by Mohammedini Hussein on Dec 28, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
No we wouldn’t know what would happen, b/c styles make fights and Floyd has problems with southpaws… ahem
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtyDlsOO98A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=kAv8e25S7cQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru6OpUosanw
But Floyd beat Marquez, which didn’t make Pacquiao Marquez a moot point, so why would Marquez beating Pacquiao make Pacquiao Mayweather a moot point? Just my opinion…
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
.................
Did you even see those fights?
Floyd absolutely dominated Shramba except for a couple of sec.
And calling that a real KD? GTFO!
Floyd was clearly offbalanced.
Floyd have problems against southpaws? when was the last time Floyd lost more then 2 rounds to a southpaw? you could argue about giving Judah 3 but thats it.
Floyd had more problems with Castillo so he has to have problems with Pressure fighters lol
by Mohammedini Hussein on Dec 28, 2011 10:06 PM EST up reply actions
The “Floyd has problems with southpaws” belief is one of my personal favorite loads of shit in all of boxing.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Dec 28, 2011 10:08 PM EST up reply actions
No the reason that Floyd should be a big favorite to win against Pac is simple.
Pac has massive problems fighting Counter-punchers.
Who is the best counter puncher of this era?……..(you can answer that yourself)
JMM won 2 out of 3 fights, you could argue 3, by using effective counter-punching.
In the 2 first fights JMM fought very aggressive, but when he toned it down he had even more success, frustrating Pac with head movement.
FLoyd has the best head movements since Pernell Whitiker……
JMM easily timed Pac constantly, FLoyd has better timing and is a lot faster then JMm.
Floyd is also more accurate.
Pac has tremendously hard time adjusting and adapting in fights.
FLoyd adapts on the fly.
If the fight doesn’t go his way, Pac will get frustrated very easily, Floyd is patient.
Pac telegraphs his punches constantly and gets away with it due to his speed.
Don’t know many pro fighters or experts that would pick Pac against floyd.
ooh and Floyd has a 6 inch reach advantage and size advantage……..
by Mohammedini Hussein on Dec 28, 2011 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
Sooo… you’re a Floyd fan? Haha… come on, the only pple who’s been able to hit floyd at all in the last 10 years or so were Corley, Judah, and Ortiz. You can lie to yourself if you want, oh, and Oscar hit him a few times flush too. Marquez did too, but compubox didn’t count those right hands on the chin b/c it did not affect him. Wow Floyd Fanatic, Mr. “Did You See the Fights?”?, I saw the Judah fight probably more times than you did. Floyd had about 6 rounds of trouble, and Pacquiao is or WAS 2 years ago about 2 times faster than a prime Judah, and I’m sure Margarito had a “reach advantage and size advantage” blah blah blah… and save me the lectures, Floyd’s a protected fighter anyway, so don’t go on your knees when Whitaker has fought the best and Floyd hasn’t. Have a nice day!
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
Look, I think the fight will be competitive, at least if the right Pacquiao and the right Floyd show up. Two things could happen: Pacquiao hurts him and showers him with fists, or Floyd counters him effectively, and slows down the fight to a “pot shot” fest. IMO, I think both would happen in the fight, a see saw to see who can set the pace, and it would come down to a close decision, and an immediate rematch. IMO, if the fight had happened 5 times since Dec. 2009, we’d probably see maybe 2 a piece, and Floyd probably takes the 3rd, but I think it’s stubbornness or ignorance to think that b/c Marquez could give Pacquiao a hard time that Floyd would. Floyd is a different animal, he uses a shell defense for defense, Marquez uses lateral movement. Styles make fights, and the shoulder roll don’t do so good agst a southpaw, it’s just a fact. Will Floyd be able to beat Pacquiao, maybe and probably, but don’t lie to yourself in thinking he’ll simply steam roll over him, and this is not coming from a Pacquiao fan or a Floyd hater, just a boxing fan man. Shyeet.
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
Do you recognize that Pac has a true weakness to counter-punchers?
Do you recognize that Floyd happens to be the best Counter-puncher of this era?
Pac is one of the best at fighting Toe-2-toe, but when the guy he is facing isn’t stalking him, isn’t walking in a straight line, use lateral movement he gets frustrated.
by Mohammedini Hussein on Dec 28, 2011 11:24 PM EST up reply actions
On guy frustrated him
And yet….,,check the record book…..he not only never lost to him, he beat him twice. And knocked him on his once over aggressive ass four times.
Fighter A beating or losing to fighter B is no assurance that B cannot and/ or will not beat fighter C.
For now, fighter C has to go, stay and get out of jail for beating woman D.
Hopefully, like he said he did when he fought the then about to be jailed domestic abuser Diego Corrales, Floyd will learn his lesson ……for all the women he dedicated that fight to.
For now, he can watch everyone else make " money " while his brand sits on a stainless steel toilet getting further tarnished.
That is after all what this thread is about, no?
Manny and someone else making money. lol
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
In many peoples oppinion JMM won 2 if not 3 of those fights
I have JMm winning 2 and one I lean towards JMM but had it a draw.
This isn’t about the triangle theory.
Notice how I don’t mention the Floyd-JMM fight.
And honestly when have I ever brought up Pac’s short commings outside of the ring…..
Exactly! so how does Floyd’s domestic abuse situation have anything to do with Pac?
Why are you getting so emotional.
I asked a question and you answer it with “He is a domestic abuser”.
He might be that but wtf does it ahve to do with this?
And “wife beater” /“Gayweather” /“Mr KFC” have a very good chance of humiliating Pac
by Mohammedini Hussein on Dec 28, 2011 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
Im not emotional
This thread is about Pacquiao Marquez.
You are here touting Floyd when all I know is that Floyd is going away on forced retirement for at least two months, probably three.
No one knows what he will do when he gets out. We only know why he isn’t fighting any longer on a schedule of his own design.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Pac has feasted on one-sided die tfor too long
make it even harder for him against fighters like JMM and Floyd.
Guys that box, guys that can counter Pac’s aggression and repetitive flurries.
by Mohammedini Hussein on Dec 28, 2011 11:27 PM EST up reply actions
Don’t try to criticize Manny unless you mention Floyd’s schedule in the same breath: Henry Brusseles, Carlos Baldomir, Zab Judah (coming off a loss, but a Floyd fan would say he was still very good back then!), Ricky Hatton (Floyd fan: he was STRONG at that weight! So was Cotto, and Cotto could have eaten Hatton alive), Shane Mosley (he was finished at that point, why didn’t they fight in 2009 after Mosley’s impressive victory? Mosley’s camp negotiated with him once and called him out 3 times that year), and the green, dumb Victor Ortiz (yes he was strong, but dumb, and Pacquiao could have LEGITIMATELY taken him out in 5).
Yo yo, Pakinpower and I are discussing boxing and facts: "I call it how I see it and I honestly don’t know who would pick Pac against Floyd except for that idiot Skip Bayless " THIS is emotional baby!
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
I generally ignore those comments cylee but like Floyd, I too like to pick apart smaller minds/foes. lol
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
*Shouder roll* right hand!
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
Yes I'm a Floyd fan
fanatic? Floyds strenghts are Pac’s weaknesses, simple.
Why are you getting so emotional?
How can anyone in their right mind compare Floyd to Margarito?
especially a shot Margarito.
Look how Morales beat Pac, Look at how JMM beat Pac multiple times.
Protected fighter? maybe you should look at Pac before you say something as stupid.
Morales beat Pac by countering him and standing his ground, JMM beat him by countering him.
JMM outboxed him the last time even more thoroughly using more defense and more head movement.
Who has better defense and better head movement?
Did you give Judah 6 rounds? then you honestly must be stupid.
Sorry that is the only way.
Or you don’t know how to score properly and/or you completely hate Floyd.
by Mohammedini Hussein on Dec 28, 2011 11:21 PM EST up reply actions
Floyd doesn’t do well agst pressure fighters (Castillo, who he lost to once), or southpaws (his first legitimate knockdown agst Zab Judah) and the Shoulder roll is meant to block and counter right hands, the right hook and the straight left or looping left throws off the shoulder roll. Also, Freddie Roach trained an old Oscar to fight Floyd better than any of his last 8 opponents. Imagine what he could do for Manny, who at this point of his career is still 3 times the athlete Oscar was in 2007…
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
But he hasn't wanted to fight him
Go figure
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Bob Arum doesn't want the fight because Bob Arum knows boxing
by Mohammedini Hussein on Dec 28, 2011 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry but history will show that Manny fought a far greater roster and accumulated a far more impressive resume than Floyd.
Anyone who knows boxing…and does not worship Floyd….will know that whether they are willing to admit now. Or not.
Floyd can still change that. But that is totally on him.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
well maybe defeating hatton, margarito, clottey, and cotto in series might just be a by-product of pure luck in your opinion…
"Effort without Efficiency is nonsense.." -rk mag
no.....
but those are his best wins
by Mohammedini Hussein on Dec 28, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
Morales Half dead, coming of the embarrassing loss to Raheem.
Barrera perfect style match-up.
A lefthanded orthodox fighter fighting a quicker powerful southpaw= disaster.
Hatton? need I say more?
Cotto? Margarito’s son? who he fought at a catchweight one year after his brutal and psychological scarring beatdown. Not to mention he moved up in weight immediately after that fight.
Perfect style match-up. Cotto has problems with southpaws and is a lefty standing orthodox.
Margarito? Shane Mosley’s son? coming in weight drained and absolutely shot.
Shane Mosley?…………
ODLH? weight drained (even a prime Oscar would have problems with Pac due to style, Him being a lefty standing orthodox , he had always problems with southpaws. BTw he lost to a Shot Sweet pea)
Clottey? he was there for the Paycheck
by Mohammedini Hussein on Dec 28, 2011 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
You’re the one getting defensive and emotional now Mohammedini. You sound somewhat fanatical and defensive. Either way, Carlos Baldomir? You mean 10 pple’s son? Zab Judah? Baldomir and Tzyu’s son? Henry Bruseles? Ernesto Zavala and Roberto Ortega’s son? Ricky Hatton? Luis Collazo’s son? Oscar de La Hoya? Mosley and Bhop’s son? Victor Ortiz? Maidana’s son? Wow! Quite an argument you’ve conjured!
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
I believe that when Floyd fought SSM, Shane had at least six (6) losses, two to Forrest and two to Winky alone. Bad losses.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
BTw it isn't luck
ofc Pac is one of the best of this era.
Both Floyd and Pac can be criticized for their opponents
by Mohammedini Hussein on Dec 28, 2011 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
that’s kind of what motivates my liking IV. Serve ’em all right to suffer.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
Back in the good ‘ol days dudes fought 5-6 times against each other and no one batted an eye. Of course, they also fought once every 6 weeks then too. THIS ISN’T A PERFECT COMPARISON, YOU KNOW.
Anyhow, this is the best fight not involving Mayweather for Pacquiao and the second best fight in the sport to make. All 3 fights were good. All of them. If Marquez wins and they fight a fifth time….fine with me! In the meantime, the guys who aren’t Marquez, Mayweather, and Pacquiao can fight amongst themselves and we can have real top contender built up to face them. The present status quo of “This guy that looked good that one time FIGHTING THE LEGENDARY PACQUIWEATHER” isn’t necessarily any better.
yeah, between dec. 2009 to now pac floyd COULD have fought 6 times. It’s ridiculous, modern boxing sucks!!!
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
If they took the massive amount of fights that the old stars used to take against lousy ass no-hope opponents then you’d bitch about that too. and so would I. It’s a different world. Everyone’s on live big money TV.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Dec 28, 2011 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
Not too much to ask, 3 times in 2010, 3 times in 2011, that’s not an old school schedule man. It’s realistic if egos were able to step aside and let the money roll (if Floyd REALLY is about money, then take a 60 million dollar fight man). This is like Bhop RJJ, or Winky JT 2, just get out of the way of your own selves pple and make some change! Pc!
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
pacquiao vs floyd
can be similar to this..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zs-hXPq1_w
"Effort without Efficiency is nonsense.." -rk mag
Is that Pacquiao Marquez the prequel? Haha… we can only speculate, but I’m agst the grain of pple who are like “Floyd wipes out Marquez b/c Marquez gave Pac a hard time”. It’s all good. We can agree to disagree.
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
i really enjoy those days when Pacquiao is not just doing boxing, he is literally fighting for his life..
though i still enjoy watching him today despite him being too cautious in some moment of his fights..
Pacquiao, without roach, wont survive american boxing if I may add..
"Effort without Efficiency is nonsense.." -rk mag
Manny, who is a part time boxer and Congressman, Can no longer let out the beast in him. He does not have the endurance or strength or the hunger to do that in a sustained way for 12 rounds like he used to. It’s just not impossible, I saw a moment in the Marquez fight when he tried to revert to that and found that trigger no longer worked…
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
Against Manny's aggressiveness, Floyd will...
…retreat into his defensive shell, throw single punches and Pacquiao will win a decision on sheer aggression. Unless Manny gets lucky, like Mosely, and catches Floyd with a punch on the button — then, unlike Mosely, he WILL get him out of there. Think of this fight as De la Hoya-Mayweather II, only with Manny being far more effectively aggressive than a faded Oscar. It’s also worth pointing out that Ortiz was beginning to have some effective moments before he butted Floyd on the head (not all that hard) and then kissed him on the cheek, before getting sucker-punched.
As far as Floyd fights are concerned...
Hatton is actually a fun one to watch. He controlled the space but Cortez vastly ( he broke them up five times in each of the first three rounds) over- controlled the fight. Now I think Floyd beats the overrated Hatton every time….but he does not like being aggressed upon.
On most nights, Floyd wins. But on most nights, like on every night, I picked Alexis Arguello to beat a not to be beaten Aaron Pryor. And in March of 1971, most experts and fans picked Ali to beat a not to be denied aggressor like Joe Frazier.
So on most nights, most of us were wrong.
The fact is that until Pacquiao and Mayweather fight each other, this is all pure speculation. Nothing more.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I really don't want Marquez to retire
thats why i want to see a 4th fight, also they were great fights
I want Bradley because he's a new face
And because he’s a champion who fights through every round of very fight. Not because he’s the greatest thing to come along but he is a game guy who will bring it if given the chance.
Cotto…we’ve seen.
And JMM….as another writer wrote…would be like Lethal Weapon IV. Fun but we already know the script.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Bradley beats Pacquiao imo. You heed those words!! …
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
I hear ya, Caveman
But I’m going to FedEx you some crow to chew on after TB takes his L like the man he is.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
You want to cha-cha a third time brother? Peterson and Cotto were crow buffet material. Bradley Pacquiao imo is not as much of a “mismatch” as Peterson Khan, and look what happened? Actually Peterson Pacquiao is now on the schedule… if Peterson’s chin holds up the early assault, he could give Pacquiao some real trouble… I dunno if he’d win, but he’d have his moments…
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
For thos Pac VS Floyd obssesed people...
Im intrerested in seeing how Floyd had aged. The soonest the fight can now happen in Septemberish. That would be over two and a half years since we have seen Floys go past round 5. We dont know how age has effected his stamina, he is older hen Manny, we could see his legs starting to go in the later rounds.
As for manny, you can see how much more he is struggling these days in the corner. His breathing looks terrible, he looks like he is absolutely exhausted.
Personaly i wanted Floyd to fight the Pacquiao that showed up against Cotto, i think that was the best physical performance i have seen from Manny. He hasnt looked the same since. As for Floyd i dunno, if they fight it would have been two and a half years since we saw something special from him (against Mosley. that Ortiz farce doesnt count since it ended prematurely)
they’re both getting older, more wear on Pac, and Pac’s legs are already starting to go.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
I’ve always felt the Margarito effort took more out of him than the others. He had to go all twelv rounds hitting up. Literally. And he threw near a thousand punches.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Floyd’s aged less between him and Pacquiao, and it doesn’t hurt that his style is the most economical at this point of his career and still effective. Still I’d say it’d be a competitive fight.
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
If Marquez plays his cards right
I think he can get the payday he wants, even if it’s not against Pacquiao. It’s Cinco de Mayo, and Marquez being on the bill is probably worth an extra 100k buys and higher Mexican TV rights no matter who he fights. As a promotional free agent, he can play Top Rank and Golden Boy against each other. Both promoters have fighters not named Pacquiao or Mayweather they’d love to see fight Marquez to help push them to stardom. Imagine a true main event doubleheader, where Marquez fights Bradley as the opener for a Pacquiao-Peterson fight, or Marquez fights Khan as the main event for a Canelo-Kirkland fight. Market either of those properly and I think either one does a million buys when they would struggle to crack 700k without having the second big fight involving Marquez. Plus, the promoters get the added benefit of having a young but relatively unrecognized fighter likely beat the biggest Mexican star out there, potentially creating a new PPV main eventer.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Dec 29, 2011 8:08 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I think he can get the payday he wants, even if it’s not against Pacquiao
I see where you’re coming from, but I think this is somewhat overstated. Marquez is not going to get $10 million or even more than the $5 milion he made last time fighting on the undercard of a Pacquiao PPV or fighting Khan in a main event. If Top Rank is that desperate to get a Mexican on the undercard, another Chavez-Bum match probably makes more sense economically.
I think he can match the $5 million
What Marque has to offer is something Chavez can’t – the chance to turn another Top Rank fighter into a real star if he wins. Considering most of the top fighters near his weight are with GBP, Arum might overpay to get him in there with Bradley or Rios.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Dec 29, 2011 4:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
if marquez doesn’t back away in the 11th and 12th..maybe you could see me on this as it would be 1-1-1 on paper. but its 0-2-1 pac on paper..gonna be the same dance to the same song..marquez doing just enough to lose a close decision..marquez should fight bradley
Either way, Marquez was still scoring effectively when he was “backing away”, I think you’d have to be drunk to give Pac more than 4 rounds in the whole fight (hitting the air usually doesn’t score points, then wash, rinse, and repeat…)
"According to all the laws of aerodynamics the bumble-bee should not fly, but the bumble-bee does not know this and so flies anyway."
Three drunk judges. Plus Harold Letterman. Makes four.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
i guess i was a little tipsy then cuz i had it 7-5 marquez but my scorecard doesnt count..especially when one judge gace marquez round 12 and if im not mistakened had the fight 116-112. if he had given the round to pac like everyone else in the world did. his scorecared would have read 117-111..marquez is right he wont get a fair shake in vegas or anywhere else until after floyd and manny fight if ever unless its in mexico..but i wont hold my breathe on that one
As we slouch into
the
21st century Pac vs. Jr. is HOT yet again!
Just imagine if they had actually fought!!!!! “The best lack all conviction”——
Pretty sure he was speaking of cherry-pickers there, and cherry-pickers do not = ATG, IMO.
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