Bad Left Hook Weekly Boxing Rankings for April 18: Shake It Up
by Scott Christ on Apr 18, 2011 3:15 AM EDT
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You don't get a whole lot of weekends like this past weekend, and this is about as shaken-up as rankings are going to get over just a couple of days. There's plenty to talk about this weekend, so let's jump right into it.
Welterweight
Last Monday, Victor Ortiz was ranked No. 7 at junior welterweight. This week, he jumps all the way to No. 4 at welterweight after defeating previously third-ranked Andre Berto. Berto slips down to fifth, with Shane Mosley moving up a spot to No. 3. It's likely that Mosley is that high temporarily as he faces divisional top dog Manny Pacquiao on May 7, but with the upsets and surprises that have been rolling in lately, Sugar Shane might look a slightly less awful bet in that fight than he did before. Not that that's saying a ton.
Ortiz looks like the real deal at 147 pounds. He's thick, strong, and powerful. He maintained his power, and he looked newly determined. It was a return to the old, aggressive Ortiz after some tentative performances following his 2009 loss to Marcos Maidana. That guy is going to get knocked down, is going to get hurt sometimes, and is going to provide exciting fights. But if that newfound grit and resolve is the real deal, he's going to be tough to handle.
Berto now faces adversity for the first time in his career, and what he does next will say plenty about him. He's got a lot to address, and a bounce-back fight shouldn't be unexpected. It's unlikely to be welcome by boxing fans, though, and you have to wonder if HBO is in the market for an easy Berto rebound.
Out of the rankings is Joshua Clottey, previously ranked fifth. He has been inactive since March 13, 2010, but I gave him a 30-day extension when a fight of his fell through. Since he's been silent yet again, he's out. Oh well. Coming soon, Floyd Mayweather Jr. (#2) will be out in the May 2 edition of the rankings unless he signs a fight by then.
After the jump: Updates at junior welterweight, featherweight, and super bantamweight.
Junior Welterweight
With Ortiz moving up in weight, an opening was created. I'll get to that in a minute, after I address Khan-McCloskey.
Khan maintains his spot at No. 2 right, behind Timothy Bradley. Those two are rumored to be fighting on July 23, which is the last must-have fight in a division that has seen its top fighters take each other on for a while now, a refreshing change of pace from most of these sets of fighters.
As for McCloskey, he was ranked 10th last week. I actually moved him up to ninth this week. That might seem odd since he didn't win one of his six rounds against Khan, but here's the thing. I still think he's at least just as good a fighter with just as good a résumé as anyone I could have slotted in to replace him. What does losing wide to Khan tell me that I didn't know last week? Nothing. I expected he'd lose badly to Khan, and he did. I also expect Khan would easily defeat any of those I could have put in his place. I thought McCloskey deserved the spot in the rankings last week, and losing to the No. 2 man in the division does not change my mind. So despite the one-sided loss, McCloskey moves up because of Ortiz's exit.
Now, in at No. 10: Erik Morales. This is a placeholder position as much as anything. Morales, thanks to his competitive loss to Marcos Maidana (#3) was in the running and I chose him to inherit the open spot -- for now. Also in the running were Victor Cayo, Julio Diaz, Josesito Lopez, and Ajose Olusegun. Cayo fights 4/29 against Lamont Peterson (#6). Diaz faces Kendall Holt on May 13 in a fight that could get the winner into the top ten. And Lopez faces Steve Upsher Chambers on May 27. I don't truly believe in Morales as the holder of the spot any more than the others in the running (well, I'm not a believer in Olusegun, but some are), but the rest will have their say soon enough. For now, Morales just made the most sense, but he's likely to be a short termer.
Featherweight
Obviously, there's a new No. 1. Yuriorkis Gamboa moves up to the top spot, with Chris John jumping up a spot to the No. 2 position. Former top dog Juan Manuel Lopez drops to fourth spot, just behind the man who defeated him on Saturday, Orlando Salido, who jumps up from No. 8 to No. 3. Previously Nos. 4-7, the set of Rafael Marquez, Celestino Caballero, Daniel Ponce de Leon and Jhonny Gonzalez move down a notch each. Nos. 9 and 10 (Mikey Garcia and Jonathan Victor Barros) stay the same.
We could well see Gamboa-John next for those two, but time will tell. Top Rank will have other options if they've decided that compensating John won't be worth it. John can make his own money against mediocre opposition at home in Indonesia, as he's proven time and time again in the past.
Most seem to be immediately expecting a Salido-Lopez rematch, but don't count me in as totally sure about that. Not because I don't think Lopez would fight him, but Juanma might need to move up in weight sooner than later. If he can make 126 still, but he (or the "sanctioning" body) doesn't want a rematch with Salido, and he doesn't want to go to Gamboa now, one idea I'd like to see would be an all-Puerto Rico grudge match with Wilfredo Vazquez Jr., the super bantamweight standout who is being served Jorge Arce on a silver platter on the Pacquiao-Mosley undercard. The two are not friendly, shall we say.
Super Bantamewight
Just a minor shift, as I switched Guillermo Rigondeaux to No. 6 and Rendall Munroe to No. 7. The Munroe who fought this Saturday looked a little less than stellar.
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Do you think The Ring will also drop Mayweather on May 2nd? I understand the argument for doing so, but I really don’t like the idea that Pacquiao-Mosley could be for The Ring championship. Obviously the lineage in that division is kind of funky anyway, with some still considering Mayweather to hold it and others (rightly in my opinion) regarding it as vacant since his retirement. I just don’t like the idea of a guy who hasn’t won a fight at 147 in two and a half years having a crack at the legitimate championship.
I’d rather trying touching the moon than take on the thinking of the Ring’s ratings committee a lot of times, so I have no idea.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Apr 18, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Crazy that post Manny-Shane, Ortiz really could be the #2 welterweight in the world with Floyd inactive/quasi-retired.
by The Boxer Rebellion on Apr 18, 2011 9:49 AM EDT reply actions
though his arrival is an uptick
It speaks of the still-empty nature of the division as far as top fighters go. Hopefully by the end of the year it looks better. I figure by then we could see Khan, Maidana, maybe Bradley up there. Judah could come back. Clottey and Mayweather just have to fight to make it appear stronger.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Apr 18, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
It is a bit of a strange division when you think behind Manny / Floyd there are Ortiz-Berto-Jones-Brook that’s not a bad group of fighters … if only there werent so inactive
Thank God for catchweight fights
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Josh Clottey
The guy has gone from being a favorite of some of the boxing hardcore to being just completely irrelevant very quickly. It’s a shame, because the revisionist history on the guy is a little out of control; yes, he stunk up the joint against Manny, but he’s a pretty damn good fighter, if defense oriented, and I’m not convinced he doesn’t beat Berto or Ortiz.
by The Boxer Rebellion on Apr 18, 2011 9:53 AM EDT reply actions
definitely he could beat Berto, closer with Ortiz
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
I’m not convinced he doesn’t beat Berto or Ortiz.
I doubt anyone is convinced of that. If he’d so much as fought and beat a mid-level opponent in the last year I’d still have him #3 or #4.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Apr 18, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
BTW
Cayo is out of the Peterson fight with a shoulder injury
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
well that sucks
that was a good FNF.
by The Boxer Rebellion on Apr 18, 2011 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions
So Ring has just rated Ortiz above Mosley at 147
http://ringtv.craveonline.com/ratings/welterweight
1. Pacquiao
2. Mayweather
3. Ortiz
4. Mosley
5. Berto
Thoughts?
That outside of the top two
the division looks a little thin.
Unproven young Golden Boy versus faded HOF’er: Doesn’t make all that much difference really.
by Don From Prov on Apr 19, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Quite honestly I think it’s perfectly fair. Mosley hasn’t won a fight since January 2009.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Apr 19, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
ring is owned by Golden Boy. Nuff said?
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Mosely was number three, then moves to another promoter and he is demoted.
Shane beat Margarito for the crown that Margarito took from Cotto.
That was one helluva fight.
GB’s Ortiz fights once at welter and he jumps to number three.
TR’s Clottey falls off the list.
Hmm.
Ring ratings are pure BS.
It’s a promotional arm of Godlen Boy.
I put more stock in Fox polls on Democratic candidates than I do in Ring Magazine Ratings.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Mosley never dropped as a result of leaving Golden Boy. He was fourth after the Mayweather loss, fell to fifth after the Mora fight, and was promoted back to four, the position he currently holds, after Cotto had been away from the division for a year. Clottey dropped off the list after not fighting for a year, just as Mayweather will in May. Ortiz’s win at welterweight is far more relevant today than Shane’s victory over Margarito from two and half years ago, and it would be a farce having Mosley involved in a fight for a legitimate championship at this point in time.
I also recall you citing The Ring’s rating of Dzinziruk when questioning the quality of Martinez’s victory, so I guess you do put some stock in their ratings when it suits your purposes.
If you think Ortiz is the third best welterweight, god bless you.
It’s your privilege.
When a magazine is owned by a promoter, it loses the right/opportunity to be the key arbiter of ranking men who operate in the same business.
It is not irrelvant because God knows ther are so many sources of BS in boxing that no one voice is greater than anothers, so Ring is the same as but no greater than any other. IMO.
I have been one of Ortiz’s greatest enthusiasts since Saturday…but I’ll be damned if I could match him over his head with at least four or five guys at 147 tomorrow.
Welterweights have moved up, in most cases after being beaten by superior welters (Margarito by Mosely, Cotto by Margarito and Manny). If they wanted to cut weight and fight Victor Ortiz tomorrow, I would bet them both.
The kid had one good night. And is flawed like hell.
That doesn’t earn anyone number three in book.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I would love if you could give me one example of bias and corruption (specifically for the promotion of Golden Boy and against Top Rank fighters) in The Ring’s rankings outside of your apparent dislike of Ortiz’s current placement. I often disagree with their rankings, but as far as belts and inactivity go, they apply transparent, justifiable criteria that were established before Golden Boy ever bought the magazine. I would never rely entirely on it, but it’s far better than any sanctioning body’s rankings.
I would also be grateful if you could name the four or five guys you’d clearly pick over Ortiz, excluding of course anyone who has not fought at 147 for over a year.
Why exclude anyone.
Ortiz only fought at 147 this year. And that was his first and only time.
In fact he was contracted to fight lower.
I can think of smaller guys that would give him hell at a weight at or near 147. Maidana and Peterson to name two.
This is a catchweight era. I make no value judgements. In fact, to be honest, I love it.
Ortiz has just been the benificiary. Berto went fishing down below and caught hell. Fighters have and will fight where the money goes.
If the money is right, Victor will fight lower or higher.
If he stays or goes up, he can be beat by Margarito, Cotto, Clottey to name but a few.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Because those are the same rules The Ring has used for years (as have Scott and Rafael for their divisional rankings), not just so they could dastardly place a Golden Boy fighter in the top three. If you can’t name 4 or 5 fighters better than Ortiz according to their own criteria, than I don’t understand the rage at his placement.
They can put him where they like. No rage.
I just think it’s silly…or sad…to believe he is the third best welterweight in the world.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
It’s only sad because the division is a wasteland at the moment. There’s no reason to perpetually rank guys who haven’t fought at 147 in ages and who cannot even clearly make the weight anymore. Rafael and Rold placed Ortiz in the exact same slot, and Scott in this very discussion has said it’s reasonable as well. Are they all victims of Golden Boy brainwashing?
Look, I can’t or don’t really look at Ring or any of the sanctioning bodies for my ratings. They all have their own agendas and I have my own eyes.
I like Victor Ortiz, the one time welterweight. Or should I say the almost welterweight. It was he, after all, who not only contended he was not a welterweight but understandably demanded that the fight be at a weight less than the welterweight limit.
Again, the decision to put his belt on the line was Berto’s and Victor did his job valiantly and snatched it. So good for him.
But until he himself decides and then fights at welterweight again, i am hard pressed to jettison him above men who I believe could and would fight and beat him at 147 if the money were right.
I also believe that when Victor’s desired money fights with pacquioa and Floyd don’t manifest, he will fight Maidana, assumiong the money os right, at a weight below welter.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
In case you failed to notice, Shane is fighting the only undisputed welterweight champion. Like it or not, it is less of a farce than Berto fighting a newly minted welterweight at a catchweight for his crown.
When Shane was inactive for 19 months, did Ring remove his name.
I honestly can’t recall.
If so, I’m a believer. If not, I stick to my contention.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
No because he had signed to fight Berto before a year had passed and then signed to fight Mayweather immediately after that fight got cancelled. I believe the rule is that you have to fight or be signed for a fight before a year passes. They do tend to give a bit more slack to those who hold The Ring belt, as Pacquiao was dropped off the junior welterweight list in July of last year rather than May.
Moreover, I believe everything I said about Martinez. He is there to be hit. If he moves up to a full 160 or above and fights the best, it is a matter of time until he is taken out. If he stays at 154, he will be fine.
But in the end, he is not the second coming.
He is a guy with a good run who deserves a lot of credit.
Nothing less. Nothing more.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
He already fought at full 160. Against the lineal champion. He won. The rematch catchweight was Paul Williams’ idea, not his.
Who beats him at 160?
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Apr 19, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
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