Take Two: Berto's Anguish, Ortiz's Shining Night
by Scott Christ on Apr 20, 2011 4:04 AM EDT
in Boxing Results and Post-Fight Analysis
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Tonight I re-watched the Andre Berto-Victor Ortiz fight. It's something I generally do when a fight is worth watching again, or when there's something to learn. This had both. For the most part, watching and scoring live, while covering the fights here in round-by-round detail, I don't particularly miss many things, but I don't have the time to sit back and appreciate everything.
Last Saturday night's battle between "Vicious" Victor Ortiz and Andre Berto, on second viewing, is just as rewarding as it was the first time. Let's discuss a few key things.
First off, Andre Berto was a tough cat to hang in there for 12 full rounds, considering he never really got over the first round knockdown -- and what should have been counted as two first round knockdowns. Berto deserves respect for hanging in. At the same time, he accomplished that because he did very little for large stretches of the fight. The third and fourth rounds he was flat blown out. While Ortiz worked and landed, even without much by way of eye-popping punches (there were a couple), Berto laid on the ropes and waited, and waited, and waited. He tried to catch his breath. He tried to get his legs back. He never really accomplished either.
As the fight wore on, Berto's questionable gas tank really became apparent. While Ortiz finished the fight strong, Berto wilted, even as the pressure against him started to subside a fair amount.
Why? Berto always looks in marvelous condition. It wasn't, in my opinion, simply getting rattled early that left him a bit lame for the rest of the fight. He was gassed out in there. Is it as simple as he needs to step up his cardio? Was this a new development? Andre's never really had to fight hard as a pro, except against Luis Collazo, and no offense to Collazo but he wasn't threatening to knock Berto out, really, just beat him. Ortiz had the power to end the night early.
Berto's corner was a jumbled mess. We've discussed this, but it's just so strange for a top-level fighter to have a corner panicking that hard. In all fairness, I don't blame lead trainer Tony Morgan, other than to say that Morgan needed to take control of the corner. Berto's attention was flying all over the place as worried team members kept interrupting, talking over, and distracting Morgan, whose advice was generally sound. And Morgan was pretty calm. Berto's brother was particularly troubling. There's no doubt he meant well, but what good is it to distract the fighter with one-liners like, "It's now or never! It's now or never!" in the fifth round? What about "Be an assassin!"
The sixth round, where Berto came out hard and fast and scored a good knockdown of Ortiz, was Andre's last stand in the fight. When Ortiz floored him in return late in the round, that was it. Berto from that point on seems to lose his will -- seems to lose the belief that he can win. He's tired, he's frustrated, and he can't one-up Victor Ortiz.
Most accurately, Berto survived the fight.
From Ortiz's side, he's just as impressive on replay as he was live. He's a huge welterweight, coming into the ring at 161 pounds. He doesn't have the greatest chin in the world, and he leaves himself open too often for counter shots. He's going to get hit, he's going to get knocked down, but he outslugged a legitimate fighter in a step up to 147 pounds, where it appears he has belonged for a while now. He looked healthier, stronger, and more comfortable. He looked like a guy who just found his proper weight.
While the fight wasn't a blowout, it was clearly Victor Ortiz's fight from the first round until the finish. Berto was effective only in spurts, and most of those seemed to be desperation borne from confusion and a lack of preparation. He is a good fighter. He can come back from this. But it wasn't just an off-night. There are things that have to be changed if he's going to be a long-term player. Without adjustments, any fight against someone like Victor Ortiz or anyone who can bang with Berto is going to be an uphill battle.
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I don't think I'll ever know how Dan Rafael had this for Berto.
It’s just inconceivable. Berto spoiled well enough in the second half to survive, but that was it.
"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."
by Oli Goldstein on Apr 20, 2011 6:35 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
What? Dan Rafael had Berto Winning this fight That’s why I have stopped reading him… his boxing analysis is ridiculous. He gets some good, trustworthy information because of his sources, but his analysis is really not great.
Bob Arum would promote Lucifer himself if he could put asses in the seats.
Was this in his twitter feed because in his round up he doesn’t say anything about thinking Berto won.
Bob Arum would promote Lucifer himself if he could put asses in the seats.
yes, it was in raphael's twitter feed
here, he does mention in other twitter posts that 3 rounds could have gone either way.
I watched the fight in my Berto shirt with some other friends, another in a Berto shirt, and we all had Ortiz winning that fight clearly. Seriously i can maybe see going all the way down to 113-112 Ortiz, but there is no way you have that many rounds to Berto. As someone who was screaming at the TV for Berto to get Ortiz out of there when he destroyed his hand on Ortiz’s chin, there is no way Berto came even close to winning that fight. Next time you’re going to tell me that Berto had solid legs the whole time and that his cardio puts Pacman to shame.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Apr 20, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s no defending a Berto scorecard. I mean he was there live, but so were lots of guys, none of whom had the fight for Berto that I saw.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Apr 20, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
I know, it really is a bit crazy. I genuinely can’t see what he could base Berto winning the fight on. I had it 115-110 for Ortiz, and I can see a case for 114-111, but that’s basically it.
"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."
by Oli Goldstein on Apr 20, 2011 2:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I couldn't agree more
I usually like Rafael, but I don’t know what the hell he’s thinking.
And the more he defends it, the worse he looks. Berto threw more hugs than punches that fight. I don’t know how anybody has him winning.
Most people don't know shit about boxing. At all. Period. - Roger Mayweather
by The Kittitas Kid on Apr 20, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Ive watch the full fight 3 times myself.
and the 6th round, 6 or 7 times. i really hope this get fight and round of the year.
by mrmrec on Apr 20, 2011 9:52 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Stamina, Berto
Some boxers just don’t have great stamina because, even though they train themselves to peak condition, they run into a genetic maximum and can’t improve further. Lucian Bute is a good example.
I’ve never been a big Berto fan and wasn’t surprised that Ortiz won, though how he did it was eye-opening. It’s obnoxious how much Berto holds. His overall ability doesn’t match up to his speed/power mix, and since he’s 27 it presumably never will.
Ortiz definitely needs to work on his defense, or at least stop leaving himself open so much, but he does look to be on the cusp of becoming a premier action fighter if he keeps up like this. Glad he’s broken through.
I just hope he shaves that pre-pubescent facial hair. So far, there’s a two way competition for worst facial hair of the year between him and Max Kellerman. Thank God Kellerman finally heard us and shaved.
Bob Arum would promote Lucifer himself if he could put asses in the seats.
It looks so awkward on him, probably because he honestly doesn’t look any older then 16 to me.
by The Twillness on Apr 20, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
He's got a true
baby face,* and beards/mustaches aren’t going to work on him, probably ever.
- —a saleable, “cute” face, which may not serve him well as far as being taken seriously is concerned.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
Ali and SRL were pretty. Hated as well. But pretty damn great nevertheless.
Ortiz could be a poster boy except for the fact that he gets busted up in virtally every fight. He has an engaging personalty and he speaks American, not English, which on this side of the pond is considered preferable and more accessible.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
personally i liked the darker look ortiz was going for...
Through out the entire media tour, Tiz was going for the badass being disrespected role. although he may need to embrace his aztec bloodline and accept he cant grow a fully defined beard n mustache.
by mrmrec on Apr 20, 2011 2:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I liked it too, except he really does just look so young and likeable—and I don’t think his ability to grow a good thick beard, as you say, will ever materialize. Pacquiao’s never looks especially luxuriant either, I wish he’d forget it too.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
He buzzed Margarito's beard pretty well
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Props to Ortiz. He really did look so much stronger at welter. I remember telling a friend of mine a few years ago that I couldn’t imagine how Ortiz was making 140. His back and shoulders are very broad.
I’d like to see him take on Cotto and maybe one day soon, Alvarez.
Roach told hinm the same thing.
He was killing himself to make weight at 140
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
and of course, Oscar just can't help himself
Back to the incredible overhype. It’s like he never learns.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
It’s a little out there but I would give Ortiz a serious shot versus any welterweight. Ortiz has the speed and power to catch Mayweather (Remember that old faded Mosley got to his chin, his defensive skills aren’t what they were) and Ortiz will be like a lightening fast Margo with more power for Pacman. I wouldn’t go as far to say that he will beat any of them, but then again I’m not his promoter.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Apr 20, 2011 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
You just set yourself up for the “overhyped” stuff when you get this blusterous as a promoter — it’s a bad idea every time. Then Oscar complains that the media says things like “overhyped” or had questions about Ortiz, when he’s the one who created the massive amount of hype and Ortiz is the one who created the questions about himself.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Apr 20, 2011 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I see this point too, but if he is trying to set up a possible Mayweather-Ortiz fight, how else would you go about it? You gotta hype this guy up to the point of being plausible opponent to May or Pac so that these guys might see dollar signs with Ortiz. With the spectacular HBO numbers you just need to hype the skill because the numbers are there.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Apr 20, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah I see this point too, but if he is trying to set up a possible Mayweather-Ortiz fight, how else would you go about it? You gotta hype this guy up to the point of being plausible opponent to May or Pac so that these guys might see dollar signs with Ortiz.
No you don’t. Joshua Clottey, Juan Manuel Marquez, Shane Mosley (both!) and Antonio Margarito managed to be marketed to at least some as legitimate opponents in the recent past, all the fights sold well, and none of them had a real chance in the odds or to most serious boxing fans. Fact is your casual fan is going to buy just about anything with Mayweather or Pacquiao involved at this point. Ortiz being a Mexican-American kid coming off a good win is plenty already for them to charge $54.95. Who’s he convincing that Ortiz would be a better opponent than those guys were?
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Apr 20, 2011 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Most of those guys had a least a little bit of name recognition before going into the big fight. Ortiz has absolutely no chance of getting a pacman fight unless Oscar does crap like this or if Ortiz jumps ship to the Bobfather. Plan and simple.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Apr 20, 2011 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Ortiz is a far bigger star right now than Clottey has ever been. And “crap like this” isn’t going to end the Top Rank-GBP cold war, so forget about Pacquiao. As for Mayweather, there was a PAUL SPADAFORA rumor for God’s sake. For the most part hype starts after a fight is signed, not before, when they have to counter the reaction of diehard fans and media, which is rarely positive for May/Pac fights. Then later, they have one of two options:
1. If the fight was good, say WELL THE MEDIA WAS WRONG — this is more for non-superfights than superfights.
2. If the fight sells, say WELL THE MEDIA WAS WRONG. I cannot remember anyone credible saying any of these fights wouldn’t sell, of course.
In other words, it’s just more promoter horseshit from Oscar here, and it’s annoying. Victor Ortiz finally shows up and wins one fight and Oscar forgets every lesson learned in 2009-10 with Ortiz, or else he never learned them in the first place.
BTW Amir Khan is going to be the greatest British fighter ever, just in case you hadn’t heard.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Apr 20, 2011 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh yeah agreed on Clottey but Ortiz isn’t Top Rank. I feel that Oscar maybe overhyping him for Mayweather. Mayweather needs to have some sort of challenge/money in order to take a fight. The HBO numbers took care of the money and Oscar is trying to take car of the challenge part. Yeah I don’t like it too much either but he’s a promoter and he is trying to get his guy a fight with the finicky Mayweather.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Apr 21, 2011 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions
My bet is that Ortiz meets Maidana before he ever sees Floyd
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Ortiz will be like a lightening fast Margo
How do you figure? They’re nothing alike, and even as strong as he looked in this last fight, he doesn’t come close when it comes to pure toughness. Gritty, yes, maybe. Resilient? Don’t think so.
Strangely, he may in fact fare better against Mayweather at this stage than Pacman. Better against Mayweather because I really think Floyd has issues against southpaws, and also, Floyd’s got to have a good deal of rust on him by now. Against Manny, as I’ve said before, Filipinos do very well against other southpaws so I don’t think Ortiz’s stance would bother him. Manny’s got an iron chin, hits plenty hard and still looks to be a whole level above Victor speedwise. He’s not the grinder that Antonio is so I see that fight taking place in the middle of the ring pretty much, where Manny gets to fight from that middle distance, which, as we all know, is where he eats opponents alive.
It was a comparison in terms of size not in terms of style. Sorry if that was unclear.
I have no idea how Ortiz will do against Pac since Pac hasn’t fought anyone near the speed and power of Ortiz. I’m not sure how much of the pacman power will carry when Ortiz has a ridiculous weight advantage (like 15 lbs). Ortiz, at points, walked through Berto’s punches and Berto was a heavy-hitting 155.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Apr 20, 2011 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I can’t wait to see what Pacquiao’s physique will look like on the 7th. Apparently, this is the best camp they’ve had since Cotto. He’s hovering around 151 but if you’ll watch some of his training videos, this is the fastest I’ve seen him since he was a 130 lber. I don’t know what’s gotten into him. But let’s assume that with rehydration, Pacquiao shows up on fight night against Ortiz at 151 after weighing in at, say 145. Ortiz shows up at what he showed up at for the Berto fight, which is at 161. So ten pound advantage.
Manny’s dealt with guys that much bigger before, but not as fast as Ortiz. But how fast is Victor, really? As fast as Manny? No. But probably fast enough to land on him. Can Manny take the shots? I would reckon no, if Victor lands on him consistently. That’s just too much mass behind the shots coming in it at high velocity.
The thing is this: How frequently could Ortiz land on Manny without getting hit himself? How does Ortiz respond to Manny’s counter assault? Again, I think it’s his durability or what I believe to be the lack thereof that’ll hurt him. I can still envision Manny landing two to Ortiz’s one, and when that happens, who gets hurt more?
I honestly think that in this scenario, Manny could avoid getting hit a whole lot if he wanted (But we all know Manny…). But Victor, Victor’s gonna get hit.
I think Ortiz could get Pac into Teddy Atlas “Deep Waters” but the problem is that I’m not sure that he has the instinct to finish the show. I’m pretty sure that Pac can at least daze Ortiz and that’s all he needs to win rounds. The big question is going to be does Ortiz have the power to KO Pacman? I would tend to say no but I honestly have no idea.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Apr 20, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Just by this discussion, how much better would Ortiz/Pac be than any other fight out there for Manny (besides the fight that shall not be named)?
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Apr 20, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
I think if the equation were as simple as Ortiz power > Pacquiao’s Chin. At this stage, and given Ortiz’s size, would say yes, by a hair. Meaning if Victor caught Manny just right could he put him away. Mmmmmmmaybe.
But it’s really more a question of a) Could Ortiz land that type of shot (I don’t think he’s enough of a sharpshooter) b) Could Ortiz mount a strong enough offense in the face of a counter offense from a fighter who is faster and probably hits as hard (Mmm…don’t see it) and c) When hit repeatedly by a non-stop aggressor (ahem Maidana), how does he respond? (Can we agree that Maidana is nearly two levels below Pacquiao skillwise?)
Of course, I would love for Ortiz to answer all these questions in the ring…
a) Could Ortiz land that type of shot (I don’t think he’s enough of a sharpshooter)
Of course, one need not be a sharpshooter land that type of punch. You just need to be lucky and catch the other guy being careless. So could Manny take a shot like that? I’ll just say that I give Manny a better shot of absorbing something like that from Ortiz than the other way around.
The Ortiz we saw against Maidana loses to Berto….
Manny’s defense is really that he can hit the other guy hard and often so that his opponent can’t fully go at him. Pacquiao is by no means the defensive genius you make him out to be. Cotto got to him plenty in the first couple of rounds, but he really doesn’t have the power that Ortiz has, which is my point. How is Manny going to react when the other guy can hurt him, cause we honestly have not seen that.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Apr 20, 2011 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I didn’t mean to make Manny out to be a defensive genius. He’s not. But I feel that when he’s committed to boxing, he does a really good job of minimizing damage to himself. He keeps his hands fairly high and moves his feet very well.
Cotto got to him plenty in the first couple of rounds, but he really doesn’t have the power that Ortiz has
How do you know this? Ortiz has had one fight as a welterweight.
I'm pretty sure Margarito
could and did hurt him, being miles taller and 18 lbs. heavier etc., etc. Manny’s hard as hell to hurt enough tho’, and I don’t see how Ortiz, who’s size is much less threatening and whose strength is good, but certainly no better than, and likely not as good as, Margarito’s, is going to hurt him either.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
Ortiz got knocked down tiwice. Three times to be exact.
He goes down faster and more often than my mothers souffles.
Manny eats him alive. Whacks him with speed and angles the like of which he never see…ir will see. He just got by Peterson. Maidana whooped him. He beat Berto and Berto is a poor man’s trinket holder with horrible footwork and balance, a backslapping inept jab and a suspect chin. Correction. A weak chin.and poor conditioning.
Mayweather loses two rounds as Victor advances and then uses the last ten to lure Victor into the check hook that took out Hatton. Even when Berto motioned him to the ropes and let him bang, Victor connect rate was not great. Floyd would make him miss and punish him for trying.
Victor should revel in his valiant victory but nit forget his last. Nor should Oscar. Match the man with a couple if winnable fights and let’s see. If he fares well, the bring on the two best.
But be prepared for a respectful but badly bruised Ortiz to say all the right things but be taken to the hospital afterwards for observation.
BTW, I would pick Margarito over Ortiz every day.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I’m starting to think that the Peterson fight was because of weight troubles. The man weighed 161 on fight night. 161! How the hell was he making 140 at all? I would like to see him take down some other WWs but honestly who else is out there? Kell Brook? Mike Jones? Mosley? Sham belt holder Jan Zavek? Look I would like to see him take some fight but jeez the landscape is a little barren.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Apr 21, 2011 4:26 AM EDT up reply actions
a little?
Mike Jones is a big name at welter these days.
That says it all.
He should fight at catchweights and to hell with the belts
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I think he would destroy Cotto (and I can’t believe I just said that). After the Margo fight, I have always seen Cotto as being a little chinny and honestly he’s not that good anymore. If he could run around and keep to a counter-punching strategy, then Cotto has shot, but if he tries to trade it’s all over. Stewart is a trainer that know how to do this and if he could get Cotto to pump out a jab it would be close, but Ortiz will just need a couple punches to end it.
If Cotto can show me something new, then he can take it.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Apr 20, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
In regards to Victor’s power, I think it’s quite real, especially at welter. But let’s balance it out with the fact that Berto isn’t exactly super tough. Collazo, a somewhat mediocre puncher had him hurt multiple times.
And as far as the chin discussion goes, I mean, Victor isn’t granite chinned himself. If it’s true that Berto never quite recovered from that first round kd, then can we say that a less than 100 % Berto put Ortiz down twice?
I think you’re right about the jab. It was working quite well for Cotto early against Pacquiao. Now, if he could tuck up well, and find a way to Ortiz’s body to take some of the speed away, I think Cotto would have a good chance.
In regards to Victor’s power, I think it’s quite real, especially at welter. But let’s balance it out with the fact that Berto isn’t exactly super tough. Collazo, a somewhat mediocre puncher had him hurt multiple times.
I tend to balance this out with the fact that Berto was a beefy 155 but I see your point as well.
can we say that a less than 100 % Berto put Ortiz down twice
Sort of. The shot that Berto landed on Ortiz that got Ortiz in trouble would have seriously KO’d anyone in the WW division (To be fair that shot would have never landed on Pac or May). This shot was absolutely massive and I was shocked that Ortiz recovered from it and then after being somewhat barraged he caught Berto. Ortiz at least showed that he can get up from a nasty shot.
Now, if he could tuck up well, and find a way to Ortiz’s body to take some of the speed away, I think Cotto would have a good chance
I think it’s going to be a problem of trying to teach an old dog too many new tricks. I just don’t see Cotto bringing all of these things together. Of course this is similar to the strategy he should employ to take down Margo so I guess we could say more after that fight.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Apr 20, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it’s going to be a problem of trying to teach an old dog too many new tricks.
But that’s the thing. This isn’t a “new trick.” This used to be Cotto’s bread and butter. He just needs to bring it back.
Not the body shots but the jabbing with the movement and the not willingness to brawl.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Apr 20, 2011 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Vic did walk through a few good right hands over the course of the fight, the one in the sixth was just a perfect counter shot. I think Vic’s developed a decent amount of toughness, but I’m not sure who else in the division can really test that theory other then Pacman.
by The Twillness on Apr 20, 2011 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions
It won't necessarily be someone from the division
Vic won this one at a catchweight. I think Maidana get another shot at a similar weight.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Vic won this one at a catchweight
Huh? Explain this one please.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Apr 21, 2011 4:32 AM EDT up reply actions
Neither could weigh in over 146. “145 plus one” someone called it.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Apr 21, 2011 5:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Right I forgot about that nonsense. Do you think Berto had any troubles with the weight considering that he didn’t have any gas tank in the fight or you think that just a systemic problem for Berto?
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Apr 21, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
No. I think he trained for an inferior fighter
Physically and mentally.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
This is why I always have wanted to run statistics on boxing. Look at average performance when a fighter is favored, average performance when underdog, length in between fights, etc. What I really want in terms of technology is small sensors in the glove which measures the amount of force imparted with each punch and track it with each fight.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Apr 21, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions
You need a few attached to their bodies as well
So you can measure the accumulated damage.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Wouldn’t need to as long as you time-linked it to compubox numbers/output. Line up time w/punches landed and no need for sensors on the body.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Apr 22, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Vic is chinny
Berto is as well. And for that matter so is Cotto.
Cotto on the other hand has far more resilience since stepping up in weight. Berto has been dropped often enough to sustain reasonable doubts. In fact, he never got his legs back after getting hit on the chin. And that is a big problem.
Floyd’s chin is tough to hit but I think can be dented. If, that is, you can tag it. But lord only knows how the man can out think his opponent in the ring…and Victor may have proven a lot but out-thinking Floyd….I don’t think so.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I think we are all but sure that Margarito and Cotto will meet before VO ever sees them
And if so, neither man will ever be the same.
The rematch is easy to make, is already in demand and will sell well.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
simple wins vs cotto. toss-up vs may. loss vs pac
When u consider the last few fights and opponents of all three guys. i see ortiz ko’ing cotto. pick’em fight against mayweather. and at this point losses against pacquiao. no matter how appalling that sounds.
by mrmrec on Apr 20, 2011 5:48 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I think Cotto is vulnerable as he'll but beats the Victor we know handily.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
agreed
I don’t think Ortiz bulls him around like he did Berto. Not that he can’t, just that Cotto is crafty enough to not let him. Berto at times really did just let him.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Apr 21, 2011 5:38 AM EDT up reply actions
It would be an interesting fight. How big do you think Ortiz would get up to for that fight if it was up at 154?
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Apr 21, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he can continue to grow and move up with his frame
That is until his power starts to diminish…. or his defense has allowed him too many beatings. He is not exactly the hardest guy to find and he has already been in two wars, winning one and losing the other.
He should settle in near 150 and take what comes his way in regard to big money. I don’t think…and I may be wrong…that he will be durable and or willing to fight for a long time.
I hope I am wrong. He’s fun to watch.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
High 160s probably. I’d like to know what his ‘walking around’ weight generally is.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Apr 22, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
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