Boxing Breakfast: What's the Best Fight for Andre Ward in the Super Six Finals?
by Scott Christ on May 15, 2011 5:00 AM EDT
in Boxing News Analysis
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Quick Results from Last Night
- Andre Ward won a wide decision over Arthur Abraham in the Super Six semifinals, and Chris Arreola stopped Nagy Aguilera in three, which I saw on what I believe was a Portuguese feed while Showtime bored viewers into a trance with a replay of Pacquiao vs Mosley.
- Hugo Ruiz won a 12-round decision against Francisco "Panchito" Arce in Los Mochis. The pictures are more exciting than Ward vs Abraham.
- Cristian Mijares retained his super flyweight trinket with a virtual shutout win over late opponent Carlos Rueda.
Andre Ward: Froch or Johnson?
This isn't about what you think will happen in the June 4 fight between Carl Froch and Glen Johnson, it's a question about what fight you think provides the most excitement in the looming Super Six World Boxing Classic final fight.
The way I figure it, Carl Froch is in his prime, is a good fighter, an underrated tactician, and he's also a pretty smart fighter. In terms of physical attributes, I don't think he's Ward's equal. But then neither is Johnson, who is in his 40s, and it's nice that he's here because everyone likes Glen Johnson, but we've perhaps gone a bit batty over him beating Allan Green.
Johnson, though, strikes me as a fighter who has over the years seen just about everything Ward brings to the table. Speed, roughhouse tactics, a good jab, good ring IQ. The question in that case, I think, would be whether or not Johnson at his age can keep up with that stuff anymore. Froch can hold pace with Ward, I think. Johnson, I'm not so sure.
But that's why they fight each other to earn the right to fight Ward.
So who's the best next opponent in your mind, right now? Savvy old dog Johnson, or prime and tough Froch? What's the tougher and better fight for Andre Ward?
After the jump: Your Sunday morning hangover Song of the Day.
Song of the Day
"Streams of Whiskey" by The Pogues.
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I'll go with Johnson.
Admittedly, I’m a Johnson fan, and I think he’s won more fights than his record would indicate. As you said, he’s very tough, and very smart, and he may be turning into another one of these boxing Methuselahs that seem to be accumulating lately. If his entire life hasn’t frustrated him by now, I don’t think it’d happen during a fight with Ward; I would expect methodical patience. He may well lose, but if so, I think he’d lose well. And I don’t think his age would be a real factor, unless it hits him suddenly.
I’ve always thought the Froch was nasty and dangerous, very durable and powerful, but also fairly terrible, and of of the luckiest SOBs in boxing, until his last one, when he was stunning. I think last night explained this. I would expect a Ward-Froch fight to be one of the ugliest spectacles ever on Planet Boxing, but more importantly, I don’t think Ward’s jabbing, moving, and grabbing would allow Froch to nail him at the 11th hour.
Froch
Either Froch or Johnson would make for good fights with Ward but i think Froch has done more at 168 and come through a lot of gruelling fights so i think he deserves it more.
I also reckon Froch – Johnson will probably be a better fight than any of the possible final matchups.
Ward is good but he just doesn’t usually make for truly entertaining fights.
In the tournament,
Froch has done more. Overall, Johnson has done more. So I can see that part either way.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
At 168lbs in general
Froch has by far the better resume, which is what i said.
His record shows wins over Pascal,Taylor,Dirrell,Abraham,Magee and a close fight with Kessler.
Glen Johnson’s most notable wins at the weight came against the likes of Allan Green, Silvio Branca and Omar Sheika.
Even accounting for Johnson being short changed in some fights there’s no comparison between their records at super middleweight as far as i can see.
Overall in his career Johnson has fought more top guys,but he’s also lost a lot more.
At 168 you’re right. Some of GJ’s losses should have been wins—I watched the insufferable Chad Dawson nab a win in Hartford, Conn., a couple of yrs. ago with boxing buddy Jim. We were both just disgusted. So his record has to some extent to be taken with salt. Not to say he’s never legitimately lost a fight.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
Johnson, because Ward-Froch would likely inespressibly ugly. Ward beats both of them, however, imo—Johnson would have the better chance. And he would have a chance. But I think Ward beats either of them.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
It's about who can get Ward out of his comfort zone...
and for me, Froch has more of a chance of achieving that than Johnson. I think all Ward’s fights have been fought at a slow pace, bar Kessler perhaps, and I think the Froch fight would force him to open up a little more. Johnson doesn’t seem to have that extra gear in him no more, and Froch can be rather awkward.
I’m not suggesting a neutral venue for the final, but I think Ward should have to travel away from Oakland. However, the option of fighting in Nottingham doesn’t bode well after the more recent British scoring in European title fights, so it will be in Oakland whoever wins the other semi-final next week.
Still searching for an alive Dan Tucker.
I think the plan was always to have the final either in Vegas or MSG, so it shouldn’t be in either Oakland or Nottingham.
"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."
by Oli Goldstein on May 15, 2011 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
If they put it in MSG they’re out of their damn minds.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on May 15, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep. I remember that’s what they first speculated, though. Considering the taxes and the inevitable box office bomb, it’d be a pretty atrocious move really.
"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."
by Oli Goldstein on May 15, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
I would have to go with Johnson, just for the fact that if there’s a Ward/Froch final I would have to cheer for Ward and that does not sit well with me. I absolutely LOATHE Carl Froch and no amount of me wanting to see Ward can overcome that. I am unapologetic in my haterism.
Bob Arum would promote Lucifer himself if he could put asses in the seats.
It's a bummer but I believe Dirrell would have
been Ward’s toughest challenge in the S6. Froch shouldn’t be counted out completely, but it’s hard to imagine a guy who lost to Kessler albeit in a close fight, beating Ward.
Froch shouldn’t be counted out completely, but it’s hard to imagine a guy who lost to Kessler albeit in a close fight, beating Ward.
Just because Ward beat Kessler who beat Froch doesn’t mean Ward beats Froch. Totally different stylistic challenge to Kessler.
"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."
by Oli Goldstein on May 15, 2011 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed on Dirrell
Really want to see Ward-Dirrell whenever this Super Six thingy is over.
And I know I’m in the minority, but for what its worth I had Froch winning over Kessler. But like you, I don’t really see Ward losing to Froch.
Here’s a new interview following 5/13’sFNF, which he attended to watch his brother Anthony fight off tv.
http://www.15rounds.com/video-interview-with-andre-dirrell-051411/
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
He's been sparring Groves recently in preparation for the DeGale fight
I think he’s fighting soon(ish).
"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."
by Oli Goldstein on May 15, 2011 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions
I hope it's Froch.
I really like Glen Johnson – and he’s pretty much the most likeable and admirable fighter out there right now, IMO – but Carl’s got the better resume at 168 and would make Ward fight. It might be ugly as hell, but for every headbutt Ward dishes out, he’ll just get another back. I don’t think Ward can do to Carl what Dirrell did – hands aren’t as quick or powerful, and he isn’t going to run around the ring – and I think Carl stands as good a chance as anybody of giving Andre a run for his money.
As someone said earlier, I don’t know if Johnson can really turn up the gas any more, and a win over one of the lousiest “top-level” fighters in recent times isn’t as much as we’ve all made out. Then again, if Johnson goes on to beat Froch, fair enough!
"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."
Yeah, may the best man win.
But i agree that Froch has the better chance to beat Ward, with his range, relative youth and willingness to fight dirty with Ward, if necessary. As i said further up i think both would make for a good fight with Ward, but not a great fight.
Really though, whoever wins fair and square between Froch and Johnson is who i want to see in the final.
with his range
I should have said “with his height” cos i just checked and Johnson has a very slight reach advantage over Froch, which suprised me a bit.
by Matt Mosley on May 15, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I know what you mean by range, though. Froch can use his height and box off a jab without getting caught too far inside, whereas Glen generally mixes things up on the inside.
I’m quite confident Froch takes that fight, to be honest. Glen might have looked good against Allan Green, but he didn’t look that good, and Allan Green sucks. Getting down to the weight must affect Johnson to some extent, and against a guy as durable and tough as Froch, I can’t help but thinking this is a stretch too far even for the Road Warrior.
"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."
by Oli Goldstein on May 15, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
It might be ugly as hell, but for every headbutt Ward dishes out, he’ll just get another back.
This is exactly why I think Froch is the easier matchup for Ward. I agree that Froch will try to match dirty for dirty with Ward, and I think this is an absolute disaster of a strategy for Froch. He will easily be lured into fighting just the fight Ward wants to fight.
But GJ will fight his fight and come with a better plan. Will it work? Probably not, but Froch has even less of a chance imho.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on May 15, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Dumb question, but curious
By “best fight for Ward,” do we mean the likeliest win however it happens, or the one that makes everyone say, after it’s over (regardless of how), “wow, that was really good; it was worth staying awake for”?
There’s the win column vs the reputation, and the buzz afterward.
I think he meant toughest matchup.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on May 15, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
What he said in the article
it’s a question about what fight you think provides the most excitement in the looming Super Six World Boxing Classic final fight.
I’ll go with Froch, because everything about him is underrated and effective. As much as I love Johnson. On a completely different note, did anyone else see the Francsico Arce – Hugo Ruiz fight last night? Complete war that I scored 113-113, but but Ruiz got two 114-109 scorecards, which I hated. The 112-111 card I didn’t have a problem with, but I felt bad for Arce.
Missed it. Thanks for the tip.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on May 15, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm hoping it's Froch too,
But, he has to win next month and by all accounts, that’s a task in itself.
I’d just like to see how he compares to Kessler (given the common opponent theme).
I don’t think either one has much of a chance against Ward. I guess if I had to choose I’d say Froch, because of his age and punching power. Both are very smart in the ring. But both would be totally outclassed as boxers. Froch knows how to box but is just so slow… he would have to try to wear Ward down physically and stop him late in the fight. Very unlikely to work in my opinion.
Johnson
Ward likes to hold. Froch isn’t much of an inside fighter. That’s a recipe for an ugly, ugly fight.
Johnson, on the other hand, loves to fight inside. And he’s damn good at it. So if Ward tries to clinch a lot, we get a fight in Johnson’s wheelhouse. And if Ward declines to hold a lot because of that, he’s not quite fast/slick enough to pull a Chad Dawson on Glen, and maybe we get a firefight, because Glen Johnson’s gonna keep moving forward, and he’s gonna throw punches while doing it (unlike AA), and I dunno if Ward has the power to keep Johnson off of him.
Of course, I’m a gigantic Glen Johnson fanboy.
by Verklemptomaniac on May 15, 2011 11:42 AM EDT reply actions
Froch
Froch has the skills to make this an interesting fight. Hopefully he learned something from the Dirrell fight (in which he clearly lost) and remembers how to be effective on the inside because Ward is going to be all up in that all fight long. But then again I like watching an inside fight (and Ward a little bit I guess).
Johnson will be a piece of cake for Ward. Johnson isn’t a terrible fighter but he is a little bit one-dimensional and will always come forward. Putting together a gameplan to beat Johnson isn’t that tough, you just hope your fighter has enough stamina to pull it off. Ward has always shown that he has a ton of stamina in his fights and never (as Antonio Tarver said last night) “Take a round off” (Oh you know how that goes AT!). Pop Johnson a couple of times and step around, repeat. I see both fights as potential snoozers with the Froch fight being the only one with the chance of being interesting.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
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