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Saul 'Canelo' Alvarez vs Julio Cesar Chavez Jr: One Has the Name, One Has the Goods

Saul "Canelo" Alvarez may be the true hope for Mexico's next great champion. (Photo by Harry How/Getty Images)

Much has been made the last couple of weeks -- good and bad -- about the value of Julio Cesar Chavez Jr, the son of arguably the greatest of all the Mexican boxing champions.

Chavez is popular. His TV ratings for his HBO debut against a largely-unknown opponent proved that if nothing else ever has, and plenty has said that the now 25-year-old Chavez is a star. But as far as his future in terms of abilities? That's a little less clear.

Sure, Chavez will draw the crowds, live and on TV. He'll do so even after he inevitably loses, likely to someone he "shouldn't" be losing against.

The other super-hyped young Mexican fighter out there is, of course, Saul "Canelo" Alvarez. Chances are you're familiar with him -- while Chavez was spending his time semi-hidden on Top Rank pay-per-views that only a specific audience bought with any regularity, Alvarez was continuing to cut his teeth with more aggressive backing from Golden Boy Promotions and HBO.

Last May, Alvarez made his major American TV debut as the main co-feature on the Mayweather vs Mosley pay-per-view. Still just 19 years old, he survived an early wobbling from Jose Miguel Cotto to come back and stop the Puerto Rican veteran in the ninth round, stealing the show that night. I did a handful of radio interviews after the Mayweather vs Mosley show, and every time, though we were meant to discuss Mayweather and what was next for him, the hosts asked first, "What about this Alvarez kid?"

At 19, the red-haired Mexican was turning heads when the focus was supposed to be on Money Mayweather.

Star-divide

After beating Luciano Cuello in far more impressive fashion than Chavez had, Alvarez was back on HBO PPV in the main support slot on the Mosley vs Mora show. This was seen by far less people, but the win was arguably more impressive. He took his time and dissected and old and worn out Carlos Baldomir, but this was still a 20-year-old kid ripping apart the former legit welterweight champion, and a man who hadn't, until Alvarez knocked him out in six, been stopped in 16 years.

In December, Alvarez was given a "special treatment" spot, headlining on HBO Latino against Lovemore N'dou. This was a rare courtesy extended to any fighter, to fight on an HBO network that isn't just HBO -- sure, it was a lesser audience, but they made room for him somewhere. And in March, he headlined his first true HBO show, when he defeated Matthew Hatton on Boxing After Dark.

He has done all of this at his age because in the ring, where Chavez falls short in the eyes of most, Alvarez continues to build a resume that gets a bit more impressive each time out. And on Saturday, a month before his 21st birthday, he faces his toughest test: Ryan Rhodes.

The 34-year-old Rhodes is a crafty southpaw, who himself was once a young star on the rise. In 1996, he won the British junior middleweight title just a few weeks after his own 21st birthday. But the following few years would be unkind. When he stepped up to middleweight to challenge titlist Otis Grant in December 1997, he lost a competitive decision despite having hometown advantage in Sheffield. And when he fought Jason Matthews in 1999 for an interim belt at 160, he was knocked out in two. Lee Blundell stopped him in three in 2002, and it was thought, by most, to be all but over for the former "Spice Boy."

And then in 2008, at the ripe old age of 31, he made his comeback start to count, knocking out Gary Woolcombe to reclaim the British junior middleweight title, nearly 12 years after he'd first won it. A year and a half later, he stopped Jamie Moore in a memorable Fight of the Year contender to win the European championship.

Now he's 34, with a bit of inactivity upon him. And while the focus for many has been on the fact that Alvarez has never faced anyone quite so good as Rhodes is on paper, there's another question: When's the last time Rhodes faced anyone quite so good as Alvarez, and has he ever beaten anyone truly as good as "Canelo" already is?

Alvarez will be the favorite heading into this fight, and as good as Rhodes is, I think "Canelo" has earned that status. It's not so much that he's beaten the men he has thus far -- you can make valid claims that none of them were that good of a win, really. But it's the way he's done it. He has largely obliterated guys who are good, solid pros. The wins over N'dou and Hatton, who both took Alvarez deep and offered different looks that could have frustrated a lesser prospect, have shown us that "Canelo" isn't all seek-and-destroy. There's a boxer's brain in there, too, one that accepts that some nights it's not going to be a knockout.

While the masses will have their time to revel in the "glory" of Junior Chavez, and while Chavez will always be at least a noteworthy attraction, those who know will tell you: Yes, both have good PR people and promoters who get them the right fights, and both will be pushed to the moon in many of the same ways.

But Alvarez has the talent, and the cream will always rise to the top. There's simply a gulf between them where, at the end of the day, it truly counts, and that's in the ring, between the bells. Alvarez has it there, and he's also a charismatic fighter with star quality. So far, Chavez just has a name, and the would-be rivalry between the two doesn't really amount to much of a debate. Alvarez is, simply put, better than Chavez, and I don't see that as likely to change any time soon.

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Didn’t notice that awful “CODE RED: ATTACK!” tagline on the HBO poster until now. I’m pretty sure whoever came up with that beauty proposed it as a joke.

by El Destruyo on Jun 12, 2011 3:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Far as the piece, Scott, I still think both fighters are egregiously overhyped, but I will say this: Canelo comes by his hype in a much more organic fashion than the one-named-after-the-other-one. But you just can’t teach speed.

by El Destruyo on Jun 12, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

“Code Red: Attack!” sounds like an MST3K episode.

Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."

by Scott Christ on Jun 12, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brutal mismatch but great payday for both.

"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry

by Boss Man on Jun 12, 2011 3:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Outrageous payday, and I will relish watching Chavez get monstered.

"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."

by Oli Goldstein on Jun 12, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree wholeheartedly with this – I don’t care who does it, but my soul aches for someone to brutalize the fraud that is Jr.

"You can't search me without probable cause Or that proper ammunition they call reasonable suspicion Listen while I bring friction to your whole jurisdiction" - Fugees

by lcollins1 on Jun 12, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd love it to be Rubio or Manfredo.

Just so it’s a guy that Top Rank think Chavez will beat.

"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."

by Oli Goldstein on Jun 12, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

He gives nepotism a bad name

"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali

by pakinpower on Jun 12, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Depends on what weight they fight.

If Junior is allowed to gain, let’s say an extra 20 pounds, then maybe, just maybe, he won’t get dropped for keeps.

"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali

by pakinpower on Jun 12, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Canelo is certainly overhyped too; however, the talent is there to one day back up the PR.

I still think his chin needs to be tested, because a grossly undersized Jose Cotto and feather-fisted Matt Hatton just aren’t good enough evidence; moreover, that Cotto did hurt Canelo is something of a concern. Nevertheless, there’s so much about Canelo to like in the ring – heavy hands, excellent combination puncher both to the body and the head. Ryan Rhodes isn’t necessarily going to be the guy to really test Canelo’s chin, because although he’s a solid puncher at the weight, he’s not this “monster huge puncher” that Richard Schaefer’s been yapping about. I think this fight will really end up something of a brawl, to be honest – Rhodes has naturally slowed in recent years, and Canelo will land that straight right often enough to push Rhodes into having to really fight, something the Spice Boy is willing to do. I think it’s got all the makings of a really good fight.

"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."

by Oli Goldstein on Jun 12, 2011 3:24 PM EDT reply actions  

The tape I’ve watched of Rhodes indicates, to me, that he’s a cagey dude. I think that may be his greatest asset and threat to Canelo in this fight: his brain. I thought he fought a really smart fight against Jamie Moore.

"You can't search me without probable cause Or that proper ammunition they call reasonable suspicion Listen while I bring friction to your whole jurisdiction" - Fugees

by lcollins1 on Jun 12, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was a really cagey, slick fighter. However, I think he’s showed noticeable signs of slowing down in the past few years – Luca Mesi, who Rhodes duly stopped in six, still landed the odd punch on Ryan. His reflexes have slowed, and his hands down approach could land him in trouble in this fight, to the point that I think he’ll have to throw down at times. He’s also a very proud guy, and I think he’ll willingly fight fire with fire. I am very provisionally backing Rhodes, as it is, because I think he’ll land plenty of leather on Canelo, and I think his style will take some working out. However, I can see it being a bit of a tear-up too.

"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."

by Oli Goldstein on Jun 12, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not so sure Canelo is better than Jr at this point.

Canelo has yet to fight anyone as good as Zbik, but competition aside, the most important thing for me is the “?” surrounding Canelo’s chin. You simply cannot be a top fighter without a good set of whiskers. Not for long anyway. That’s part of the intrigue of his next fight, I suppose, because Rhodes can whack some when pressed. When you also consider the young man’s lack of defense and his almost comically robotic fighting stance, you begin to realize that it’s a matter of time before he gets cracked. And this is just a hunch, but I don’t think he’ll react near as well as Chavez Jr as to getting smacked around. We’ll see. Maybe very soon.

I see what you’re getting at in terms of skills, but I don’t think the difference between them is much at all when you consider everything that makes a fighter. Say what you want about Jr, but he IS game, and can whack to the body. Jr is more aggressive while Canelo is a more patient boxer/puncher.

That said, we really don’t know good he is. I see a kid with a ton of work to do. Rhodes is the best fighter he’s ever fought, as Zbik was for Chavez, so I’m gonna hold off on the comparisons until after the fight.

I’d say both have many holes in their defense, but JCC Jr’s are easier to see because he’s so aggressive. Can’t wait to see what happens when the kid gets tagged.

by Lee Payton on Jun 12, 2011 3:26 PM EDT reply actions  

“You simply cannot be a top fighter without a good set of whiskers.”

Tommy Hearns.

And plenty more examples of guys with mediocre chins who were just very, very good at not getting hit directly on them. I have questions about Canelo myself, but his chin is far, far down the list.

by El Destruyo on Jun 12, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hearns’ chin wasn’t that bad. Hagler and Blade hit very hard.

How can you NOT question his chin when he’s been in with smaller guys and non-punchers?

by Lee Payton on Jun 12, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hearns’ chin wasn’t bad, but it wasn’t good either. Most fighters probably ultimately fall into the middle, though it can be helpful to have a good one when you reach the point where you’re facing the power elite. But, there are also other ways.

If you read what I said, I wasn’t saying his chin wasn’t a question. Just not the primary question. (My primary question: Dude moves like he has glue for blood…how’s that gonna work?)

Not trying to get heated here, just trying to be clear. It’s all opinions anyway.

by El Destruyo on Jun 12, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t really see Jr’s body punching as that big of a strength, because I don’t think he’s actually all that good at it. He just does it.

Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."

by Scott Christ on Jun 12, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Say what you want about Jr, but he IS game, and can whack to the body. Jr is more aggressive while Canelo is a more patient boxer/puncher.

I don’t know about this. Jr. hit Zbik about 250 times to the body the other night, and while he slowed Zbik down, he didn’t stop or drop him. I’m not convinced that any of Jr’s shots are all that powerful. He’s really not that aggressive. He spent a great deal of the fight the other night backing up against a pillow-fisted boxer.

I do agree that there are questions surrounding Canelo’s chin. But the one time I saw him get rattled (Cotto), he wised up, tightened up his D and thereafter kicked Cotto’s ass.

I think: Canelo is smarter in the ring, hits much harder with either fist, is tougher, and has a better chin – even if neither of them have great chins.

"You can't search me without probable cause Or that proper ammunition they call reasonable suspicion Listen while I bring friction to your whole jurisdiction" - Fugees

by lcollins1 on Jun 12, 2011 3:40 PM EDT reply actions  

shit - meant for Lee Payton

"You can't search me without probable cause Or that proper ammunition they call reasonable suspicion Listen while I bring friction to your whole jurisdiction" - Fugees

by lcollins1 on Jun 12, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

Just because he targets teh body and can connect does not mean he is a threatening body puncher. Zbik was discouraged after being hit but not dropped or beaten.

On the other hand, he was probably discouraged when he signed to fight and knew the price was him having to give away his title

"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali

by pakinpower on Jun 12, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

One Has the Game, One, the Good Name.

One is Good, One is Game.

Just foolin’ around on a lazy Sunday.

"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali

by pakinpower on Jun 12, 2011 4:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Not seen Alvarez fight yet,

But I think Rhodes may put up a fight here. Has Canelo faced a slippery “Ingle type” fighter yet? Also, I read that Hatton did ok against him and he’s a lighter man. Rhodes is naturally heavier and can certainly pack a punch, so for me it’s not a foregone conclusion. I’m really looking forward to this! Come on Ryan!!!

by Phill on Jun 12, 2011 4:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Chavez is obviously not a potential star, but I think Canelo’s potential is rather limited as well. He’s just too slow, and that’s something that isn’t going to change much. He also very stiff, doesn’t move his body/head on the way in, which makes him an easy target for counters. I know he’s young, but these are style habits that are tough to change and I think will be an issue down the road in terms of how good he can be.

TheBoxingBulletin.com

by A.F. on Jun 12, 2011 4:48 PM EDT reply actions  

I’m on the same page

"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali

by pakinpower on Jun 12, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

To clarify: I think Alvarez is good. Not great (he could be someday if he’s better than appears so far), but good. I think Chavez is mediocre on his best day and “attraction” (which he is) and “exciting” (which he sort of is) don’t make him better. I also had/have little regard for Zbik, so that win just didn’t much do anything for me. Told me nothing new.

Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."

by Scott Christ on Jun 12, 2011 5:16 PM EDT reply actions  

I’ve never been a Chavez Jr. fan but his last fight showed me a lot actually. It’s the same thing you’ve said about Canelo. How Chavez Jr. won that fight was impressive. It was a very determined effort and it seemed like he’s not content being a guy who piggy-backs off his name. He wants to be a great fighter. Now I don’t think he is or ever will be great but he has a lot more will than I thought and I think that’ll take him further than he should go which, in my book, makes him someone to root for.

What will really be telling is who he decides to fight for his next two or three matches. If he picks three cupcakes in a row then I guess I was dead wrong but we’ll see. I think his advisors want him to take “easy” fights more than he does. We’ll see.

Tiago Splitter > Matt Bonner

by Manuwar on Jun 13, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’ve had the same thought, too. I think he’ll lose the step-up fights, but I don’t think he’s afraid of them.

Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."

by Scott Christ on Jun 13, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Canelo slow?

I think he has handspeed; yes, I agree he is a little slow footed, but that’s partly because he commits to all his punches… He is way more slick than Chavez. Yes, he got caught cold against JM Cotto, but overall he really doesn’t get hit much and doesn’t look marked up at the end of fights. As light skinned as he is, he would bleed fairly easily if he indeed got hit alot. Techniqually he is way better than Chavez, he doesn’t square up, he extends his jab to get more torque on the right hand, he does move his head…. His one defensive deficiency is he has trouble seeing the left hook as against JM Cotto, but I think he’s a thinking fighter who will show more layers to his game as he steps up.

by mambocowboy on Jun 12, 2011 11:52 PM EDT reply actions  

I think that Chaves Jr’s name both helps and hurts him and the longer he fights the more that the latter will take over. His name has been a leg up and a great promotional tool but it has also come with the built in curse of people expecting him to emulate his father only to perptually dissapoint. He is actually not abad fighter and has obviously got heart and determination, and seems like a nice kid. Against the very best (Martinez) in the word manslaughter comes to mind.
I am trying not to let all of the Golden Boy BS with the phoney belt put my off of Canelo but I do think that he is over hyped also. He is however only a kid and if he improves from his very strong base he could be at the top for a very long time. Again as long as he dosn’t meet a Martinez along the way.

by LawrenceP on Jun 14, 2011 1:39 PM EDT reply actions  

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