Alvarez vs Rhodes Results: Canelo Rolls Over Apathetic Englishman
by Scott Christ on Jun 19, 2011 12:22 AM EDT
in Boxing Results and Post-Fight Analysis
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Saul "Canelo" Alvarez was hopefully going to get a test tonight against Ryan Rhodes. No dice.
Instead, Alvarez pounded out 11 straight winning rounds over an opponent who seemed to have little serious interest in winning the fight, then stopped him in the 12th round when a flurry led to Rhodes' corner giving up on the fight, and referee Hector Afu stepped in to stop the charge of the 20-year-old Mexican star.
For those who are disappointed in Rhodes' performance, let me say two things:
- I apologize if I convinced anyone this would be competitive.
- I was extremely disappointed, too.
Rhodes (45-5, 31 KO) just didn't show any of what made me think he could be a nice stylistic matchup for Alvarez (37-0-1, 27 KO) in this fight. He didn't counter punch -- hell, he barely punched at all in most of the rounds. And while he didn't run and hide, and he didn't hug up on Alvarez to any notable degree, he simply didn't present resistance. At some point, Alvarez knew that nothing was coming back, and if it did, Rhodes probably wouldn't have much on the punches he did let go. Rhodes just didn't commit offensively in this fight at all.
Part of that, though, was a better Alvarez. He added some nice head movement, worked at good angles, fought extremely patiently and poised, and was simply better than Rhodes at everything except maybe footwork, which is still Alvarez's "weakness." But Alvarez was quicker than Rhodes, which even thinking his hand speed is often underrated, I didn't expect. It was almost impossible for Rhodes to do the things he could have, on paper, done to win this fight. It's hard to counter punch a guy who's quicker than you, and by a good bit at that.
I give Canelo full credit for this win, because he made Rhodes look worse than Rhodes has ever looked. Maybe Rhodes is fading and aging, and maybe the class of opponents before Alvarez was just nowhere near Canelo's level (i think that's true, for the record, after seeing this fight). But Alvarez still flat outclassed him, and he went for the knockout in the 12th round. It wasn't spectacular (or in Roy Jones land, a spectactacle), but if the fight hadn't been stopped, he probably would have done something more dramatic.
A good win for Canelo Alvarez, but at the same time, a rotten loss for Ryan Rhodes. I think a fight can be both ways -- this is one of them.
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Rhodes
gave more effort in the post-fight, where he just talked his ass off, than in the whole damn fight. When a guy puts in that kind of “I’m just here to survive” effort, he should probably keep the post-fight relatively short.
That was terrible.
"You can't search me without probable cause Or that proper ammunition they call reasonable suspicion Listen while I bring friction to your whole jurisdiction" - Fugees
Rolls over A Pathetic Englishman
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I’ve noticed your constant little digs against the English. There are plenty of pathetic American’s out there too. Especially ones with their heads stuck up Bob Arum’s arse and who think Manny Pacquiao is the second coming.
Of course, you’ll give Khan credit because he’s with your man’s camp. There are some good Brit boxers but people like you wouldn’t recognise that.
I’d be willing to bet you never boxed because the biggest critics rarely have.
Rhodes was pretty bad, but Alvarez was very good too.
He looked massive at the weight, and he is the guy who could give Sergio Martinez a real challenge within the next year or so, imo.
BTW
I thought Alvarez would have got him out of there earlier and picked him to do so in the 9th round.
Rhodes was likely not quite a top 10 British fighter, P4P, going in and his chances were being overrated by some, imo. He is also 34 and had been inactive against decent competition.
His timing looked off to me.
I thought he might have fought a bit harder, but when the other guy is bigger and better it can easily become discouraging.
As far as i was concerned, Rhodes was never in with a shot at actually winning, i just though he would give Alvarez more of a challenge.
Matt, FYI, I have boxed….not at the highest levels but I’ve boxed. I have also spent considerable time in the gyms in Philadelphia growing up iwatching guys who really could box. So i would hesitate to cast that stone.
Secondly, I can assure you I have watched more fights somply as a matter of having ben ob the planet longer and being a fan since Muhammed Ali began his promotiional build up to his first fight with Sonny Liston. You can do the math.
As for British fighters or any fighters for that matter, I really don’t care one way or the other whre they are from as lomg as they perform when they are paid to do so. Having said that, outside of Nigel Benn, Lennox Lewis, who had a terrific reign, and Hamed, who was an interesting phenom until MAB fully exposed and virtually retired him, I don’t have that many favorite British fighters among my ATG.
And it has nothing to do with Nationality or skin color.
Rhodes stunk last night. Period. He was so bads it didn’t allow me to evaluate whether or not Alvarez had made any significant improvement from his last fight with Hatton, who BTW acquitted himself like a guy with that kind of opportunity should. ( believe Hatton was British).
Devon Alexander was awful in his fight with Bradley. I said as much. Chavez is a fiction. I said it consistently. Chad Dawson is a bore. I said it day one. Andre Ward doesn’t thrill me but I dmire him as a champion. Froch is a fighter with an amzing confidence. I admire his pluck more than his talents. Each guy is a different color, or race, or nationality.
So the Woe is Me British fanforade is misplaced with me. I lookj at fighters as pugilists….and performers….because in the end, that is what they are paid to do.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
As for Arum, and other promoters, I do have a different perspective.
I have run a talent agency for artists for thirty years. It takes years of investment to make an artist marketable and a lifetiime of investment and work to keep him there.
If you had one iota of the kind of access I do have to TR, you might have a slightly different perspective. I don’t have constant contact but I know that behind the fights we see are very complex business calculations and strategies being made by men (DiBella, Shaw, Goosen, GBP, and TR to name a few) who are far more invested than me and you. That does not mean they are smarter human beings and more than that the guys at Goldman Sachs are smarter that you and Scott, They just happen to be the best at what they do….and I am interested in understanding how and what the best in any business do their work. And yep, I admire them.
What I don’t admire is the kind of non-effort phoned in by Ryan Rhodes last night. Neither BTW did his own corner, who I believe bears certain responsibility for what transpired last nigh.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
behind the fights we see are very complex business calculations and strategies
Eh, occasionally they are complex, but most of the time they are extremely simple math. The negotiations are where it tends to get complex… and, at times, deeply frustrating for fans who just want to see the best fight the best.
A good, solid manager (one who actually steers the ship instead of being led around by the nose) impresses me than any promoter.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
I admire good management and great promotion alike
But I see the differences. Many if not most do not.
Damian Hirst is the most famous and lucrative artist of his generation and possibly any thus far. His is managed by a man named Frank Dunphy. Only those in the busines know his name but he has done a spectaucular job; unparalled in fact. It is Gallery (agency) White Cube that has promoted him and turned him into the global phenomenon that he is. Hirst desreves tremendous credit but without solid management na d exceptional promotion (with a constantly expanding global outreach and network), Hirst would have been yeterday’s star.
We have an exrssion in our business which is used in agaencies such as CAA and IMG as well. “It is not just the ‘Contained’ that matters; It is the Container”. In other words, the context.
The right fighter in the wroing hand s is a fighter you won’t see as much as his talents deserve. Unfortunately, the wrong fighter in the right hands many produce the opposite but similarly annoying result. Berto among others is an example of the latter.
The busines is far bigger than it has ever been. The media relationships ar e but one component. Access to capital, ability to reach new audiences, branding….all of it is far more complex than ever.
As for management and promotion, I find their machinations interesting, But teh guys I really ant to know are the matchmakers. I believe that is a reat art form and wish there were more actual reports and intervies on that profession to shed light on their activities
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Damian Hirst is a sham, and the way he and others like him have been marketed has been destructive to the arts.
Marcel Duchamp got it right.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
If I were forced to name but one favorite artist, it’s Duchamp.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
He's the most important visual artist of the twentieth century, imho.
I try to get down to Philly to see the large glass and the Étant donnés as often as I can.
Duchamp is my hero.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
Duchamp murdered art
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
No, he merely outboxed it.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
by Matt Miller on Jun 19, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
It's interesting, PP, that you'd pick Damian Hirst
to make a point about management and promotion—
as the one direct response to him was so negative.
And if this were a different type of site, you might receive a lot more negative responses to his name.
Outside of the inside of the art world he is, as far as I see, a strong example of management/promotion
trumping any true talent. So he makes your central point, I guess, but also brings up the question of how often the equation = the wrong (or no real) talent in the hands of the right promotion takes in your area of expertise.
Or maybe in a wider lens, how heavily so much of what we value overall is a result of hype over heft—
A side discussion to the thread but to me it’s a more & more interesting one in all the arts—
And I think to some degree boxing as well, and—again— the deeper fabric that underlies our everyday lives.
Sorry for the side trip. Anyway, Canelo looked good, but I agree that questions should remain.
Will be interesting to watch over the next year or two.
by Don From Prov on Jun 20, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
as far as I can see,
perceived as a strong example….
Sorry
by Don From Prov on Jun 20, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Scott, you don’t need to apologize. Most of us would probably watch Alverez fight no matter who they match him with.
What was dissappointing was not Cnelo. He did his part. In fact, I believe that SA really likes to fight and that he just found himself in with an opponent who either couldn’t or wouldn’t.
The onlt consolation is that unlike Mosely, Rhodes stayed right in front of SA so the kid could get in a little target practice
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Well, Rhodes was certainly awful in there, and was probably never all that good to begin with, but I was pretty impressed with Canelo, more so than I was in his fights against Hatton and N’dou.
He is still so young, and he appears to be adding dimensions to his game. In this fight he showed good head movement and nice defensive instincts against a guy who was trying to land quick, sneaky shots against him (albeit very intermittently). Canelo showed some pretty good reflexes and instincts slipping and parrying these shots.
I can’t really think of a fighter that Alvarez reminds me of. He’s about as well-rounded as you can be— solid in just about every facet of the game and rapidly improving in the areas where he’s shown shortcomings.
No shame in thinkin Rhodes would be a chalange for the Kid. Nothing in Rhode’s history would suggest that he would be so poor. Another Ingle loud mouth who can’t deliver against the best fighters.
Some people just seem to like to be negative and overly critical.
If Rhodes had have been landing more shots and making more of a fight of it, no doubt there would have been criticism of Alvarez’s defence, people saying he’s not that good.
And here, instead of giving Alvarez his due for fighting a great fight (good defence, great punch placemenrt, countering, etc), some like see it as how bad Rhodes was.
How about looking at a situation with the glass half full for once and thinking, “you know, Rhodes didn’t look too good, but maybe a lot of that had to do with how good Alvarez was.”
Canelo certainly made me a believer.
Agree. It’s like now the fight was a mismatch from the beginning…….um, I don’t remember anyone saying this BEFORE the fight. Alvarez defeated a guy ranked 5 places above him in The Ring rankings.
I have no doubt Rhodes was there to win. He was fighting in Mexican heat at high altitude. I’m sure this affected his punch output, and Canelo’s overall skillset (especially the nice defensive skills) must have surpised him. …………it did me, and probably everybody on this board.
Everybody thought Rhodes would be a tough opponent, a “real test” for SA. I notice often that when someone walks thru what was expected to be a tough opponent, all of a sudden the tough opponent was “always a bum.” Kinda silly.
D. Plainview’ words re the heat resonate as well. Rhodes arrived too late (my understanding is he only got to Mexico a couple of days before the fight) to acclimatize, imo, and that’s got to be awful weather for an Englishman—my understanding is it’s rarely hot as the southern US and Mexico know it in the UK.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
I think he was there for 2 weeks to be fair, Boxanne, but yeah it’s different conditions for him.
The result would have been no differrent had it been held in Rhodes’ hometown though, i’m sure.
Like i said Canelo showed me that, at 20 yoa, he’s got a great future and seems to get better with every fight, even though he looked very good quite a while ago.
I will be adding him to my profile as one of my favourite fighters now. :)
by Matt Mosley on Jun 19, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
But I think if the fight was in England, Ryan would have fought better……..but I agree the result would have been the same (prob by decision).
I’m sure Rhodes thought, based on the Hatton fight, he was going to punch holes through Canelo’s porous defense. He must have been as shocked as we were by the improvements in Canelo.
Not to nit pick, but as my pre-fight call hopefully made clear, I didn't think much of Rhodes as an opponent.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
Watching Canelo is enjoyable, so I enjoyed the fight. He looked huge compared to Rhodes. Re: footwork = his weakness—I dont’ think it is. He’s not a flashy mover, and he doesn’t do much dancing, but he’s exactly where he wants to be whenever he wants to be there, and he’s there real solid. He’s beginning to strike me as very economical, in a way, and very generous in another, namely, I think he could have got Rhodes out of there at least 3 rounds sooner, and just put on a performance for the fans rest of the way. There was really nothing to stop him and he knew it.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
Re: A Test for Canelo = No Dice
Either that, or it was, and he made it look so easy it looked like it wasn’t.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
Quite a few posts seem to be portraying Rhodes as the Light Middleweight version of David Haye. All the interviews I had heard from Rhodes he seemed like he respected Alvarez and knew he had a tough task ahead of him.
I think the Jamie Moore fight might have taken more from Rhodes than I previously thought and he is now on the downslide of his career. Credit to Alvarez though who looked very good!
Just suprised at the some of the reactions towards Rhodes (almost like he fought like Audley Harrison or Lorenzo Parra in there) as I just think he was overwhelmed rather than him being lazy or scared. Suppose that has to do with expectations.
by Nonpariel Barry Punchbag on Jun 19, 2011 9:54 AM EDT reply actions
I agree. Seems to be some English hating going on here, for no good reason.
Rhodes never ran his mouth off or insulted Alvarez.
Says more about the keyboard experts who just love to criticise.
I don’t even see why the fact he is English needs to be made a big deal out of, but some seem to want to do that.
Where’s all the good white American boxers anyway? I don’t see many around.
by Matt Mosley on Jun 19, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
In fact, one of them (Litzau) got KO’d in quick time last night. Who else you got, Pavlik, erm??
I suppose some left wing liberal is gonna call me racist now? Just stating a fact.
by Matt Mosley on Jun 19, 2011 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions
I think you my be taking it a bit too personally. I am English and it is true that there are those on the site who have a negetive veiw of all British fighters but who cares? Rhodes was way below what I expected of him. He fought a poor fight all in all. I spend my winters in South Carolina and in my veiw the British are far more negetive about Americans than they are of us. I agree though that English in the headline was pointless, but again who cares? I am not offended by it. Actually in general Americans think a lot more of Carl Froch than people over here do . Most of my friends in SC can’t understand why we (Not me personally as they al well aware of my dislike of Haye) follow David Haye and not Froch. So they are not all anti British fighter. They generally rate Calzaghe, Lewis and Hatton also. Lighten up. It’s no big deal. More of a problem for yhem than for if you think about it. Dislike a fighter because of his race or nationality is pretty sad really.
You say lighten up, i say i’ll stand up for the English, seen as no one else is doing so.
After watching the fight this morning i was suprised to see the headline and to read pakinpower’s comment, seen as i thought Rhodes was just beaten by the better fighter.
There was no need to be overly critical of him, or to bring nationality into it, imo.
by Matt Mosley on Jun 19, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Wrong. Others have stood up for RR including me. This seems to be between you and someone
else and you should limit it to that.
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry
Thank you for your deep in sight and respect.
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry
well this needs to end
Guys, I used “Englishman” in the title because it was a way to not say “Rhodes” twice in the headline and not call him “Ryan” alone, and still identify him personally.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jun 19, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
If he’d still been using the “Spice Boy” nickname, I’d have used that. :)
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jun 19, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok
Just to let you know, i didn’t take offence at your headline, it was pakinpowers subsequent comment, and judging by the later comments i think it has now been resolved.
some left wing liberal
Keep the political judgments and implicit digs out of the boxing talk on this site.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
It's Scott's site, not mine,
but as someone who has been here since before the site even went online, I feel confident saying that it’s perfectly fine to refer to someone as black or white or whatever, as long as one is not actually being racist. I’m sure Scott agrees.
We’re not “PC” here, but we do have a zero tolerance policy for racism and discrimination of any form. We also discourage political content unless it’s something totally silly and wouldn’t offend anyone.
There are few things I hate more than online political flame wars, so I’m always quick to tamp down the sparks.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
as someone who has been here since before the site even went online
Now that I think of it, maybe Scott and Brent had actually created the site when Kevin Gonzalez and I joined. I can’t honestly recall. But you get the point.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
Well i’m honestly not trying to cause trouble, but i just remember someone (actually i think it was a poster, not a BLH writer, to be fair) who pulled me up for saying that black fighters were generally slicker than white ones.
I’m white, and me saying that certainly isn’t racist, it was just stating a fact.
Blacks, like Mexican’s, have come from the poorer parts of modern society and that’s why they make the best fighters in general, imo. Just like it used to be the case with the Irish, Italians and Jews in the 20’, 30’s and 40’s.
I know you probably know that but i’m just saying.
I live in Brooklyn, New York on the border of Bed Stuy.
And one of my best friends teaches high school in Brownsville (the neighborhood where Tyson grew up). I definitely know what you are saying, and I certainly don’t think you were being racist. I was just responding to your comment.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
Yeah everything you’re saying is fine.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jun 19, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I think I know how you feel like. Must be similarly annoying as all that “Whut, he’s fighting in Germany? He’ll need a knockout to get a draw!” – sermon that some people just love repeating to any inept occasion.
"Sure, there have been injuries and deaths in boxing – but none of them serious." Alan Minter
No I can’t understand why people bring nationality into it either. But they do, and we living on this small island are possibly the worst offenders. I don’t mean you and I personally of course but in general the British can be rather zenephobic. There is a very good reason why most of David’ Hays fans hereld from these shores. Well what is that if it’s not bringing nationallity into it.
I can’t really work out why people don’t just support a fighter for who he is not for where he comes from. I can sort of understand why someone would support a fighter from their own country (altough I don’t personally unless of couse I like then eithger as a fighter or person) but I find it hard to get to grips with why dislike a fighter simply because of where they are from. But they do. Again who cares? Life is to short to fret over the ignrorance of others.
Why are you trying to turn this into the English being arseholes (as they can be at times, admittedly)?
Seen as you are from Britain why not show a bit of pride in your nation?
Instead of just pussying out and saying, “oh, who cares what people think.”
That attitude is exactly why some take the piss out of the Brits.
Be a man for crying out loud!
An Englishman was insulted for no good reason and you sound like you want to cower down and hide. Maybe you should go and stay in America and keep saying “yes Sir”.
by Matt Mosley on Jun 19, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ve travelled and lived all over the world and i know for a fact that if you act like a pussy, you get treated like one.
There’s a way of being right with people, but being firm when you have to be, and standing up for yourself and where you are from.
by Matt Mosley on Jun 19, 2011 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
We obviousely have a different veiw of things but that’s life. People dissagree about stuff. If you actually knew me you would know how wrong you are in your assumtions but you don’t so how could I expect you to get it right. My neigour is also an Englishman and a bigger arse you could never hope meet. I would not feel inclined to defend him either. Again who cares?
I find it hard to get to grips with why dislike a fighter simply because of where they are from.
Exactly my point, too. I mean, it’s not the time of the Cold War anymore, where boxer represented systems (or, further back, Schmeling vs. Louis, which was quite unfair to Schmeling who really wasn’t a nazi).
I personally do root for German boxers by tendency, except if they get sth. about them as a person that really turns me off (e.g. Jürgen Brähmer, Marco Huck), and even then it’s difficult for me not to cheers for them when they’re in the ring. But I just can’t get why people should get goofed on for their background. Well usually that happens for some sort of rivalry probably.
"Sure, there have been injuries and deaths in boxing – but none of them serious." Alan Minter
I think it’s also depending on how well you know fighters. I’m much more exposed to German boxers, so I feel that I know them better which raises the chances that I do like them more. I just recognize that the more I learn about “foreign” fighters here, the more I’m rooting for some of them, too. (Or just completely disliking them, e.g. David Haye.)
"Sure, there have been injuries and deaths in boxing – but none of them serious." Alan Minter
The title above says "AN APATHETIC ENGLISHMAN"
It could have said an apatheic opponent and would have been spot on.
I still would have said A PATHEIC OPPONENT.
Because he was.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I think pathetic is too harsh to be honest, it’s not like he did a Audley Harrison in there. I wanted to see a good fight too but people are just taking all there frustration out on Rhodes. There have been far worse fights than that where fighters have blatantly ran around the ring(Pacquiao-Mosley being a recent one), rhodes at least went out fighting, he was trying to knock alvarez out in the last round (not doing a very good job of course) before Alvarez turned up the heat. Rhodes just didnt want to open up too much and who can blame him? He wanted to win the fight but just didn’t have the ability to do so, you have to give him credit for standing up to Canelo and not running in the last round, he was still there even when he was getting battered round the ring.
Rhodes showed himself to be a fine sportsman complimenting Canelo as a super star. And Canelo is a superstar. Make no mistake. He is the next monster star to come out of Mexico and if he learns how to speak English (as it appears he is trying to do), that will only enhance his popularity.
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry
he’s catching on to English, but it’s not going to be a quick study, imo. I don’t think he’s a bit stupid, but he left school real early, so the substructure for learning language has got to need a lot of remedial attention. And I don’t think he likes to look silly, so he won’t say much till he’s sure he can say it right.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
I was thinking about this very thing just yesterday, in connection with the Klitschko-Haye-Kellerman video. In “River Town,” the first of Peter Hessler’s wonderful books about living and teaching in China, he remarks that he found himself developing two “personalities” (or personae). On the one hand, he was the highly educated teacher of English and Literature; on the other, and as he made himself more and more a part of the community around the school where he taught, he realized that to the vast majority of the Chinese with whom he interacted, he was a genial and pleasant idiot.
I’ve studied several languages, and have always been painfully aware of what a dope I sound like trying to converse in them (including English, my native tongue) in spite of all my degrees. I’m currently hammering away at Beijing Mandarin, in preparation for a trip with my wife to visit some of her family and friends (she’s from Hunan).
I run into hordes of people everyday at UMass/Amherst who have English as a second, third, or even fourth language, and my appreciation of their linguistic prowess is immeasurable. I think it must very very difficult for Klitschko, Alvarez, and innumerable others to have a sharp mind locked behind a language barrier.
Rhodes showed himself to be a fine sportsman complimenting Canelo as a super star.
Indeed he did. Personally I was merely disappointed in his performance.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jun 19, 2011 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate nationalistic bullshit
and fans who root for a fighter because he’s of their nationality. That being said, there’s a huge freaking difference between Canelo and JCC Jr. Canelo is very good technically and and very precise and deliberate with everything he does inside the ring. Chavez is horrible technically and I am looking forward to a technical boxer from whatever country I don’t care to expose that…
I think there’s a distinction between rooting for someone and being unsportmanslike biased. Cheering for one side doesn’t mean that you cannot respect the other side and accept if the opponent is better and won deservedly. I wouldn’t call that nationalistic as I definitely wouldn’t call myself a nationalist, though I’m usually rooting for my “fellow countrymen” (by a very broad definition anyway). Like I wanted Abraham to beat Froch, but now I want Froch to beat Ward. ;)
"Sure, there have been injuries and deaths in boxing – but none of them serious." Alan Minter
So if you had a foul mouthed overrated big head who has fought nobody and BS’d his way into a fight but was German fighting against a genltleman from the Ukrain who is articulate,well educated and respectfull to his opponents and has fought everyone he has been asked to. Would you be roofing for the German or the Ukrainian?
Of course there are borders and your case is easy to tell. I also can’t enjoy Huck winning anymore since I listened to some of his interviews which are just incredibly dull. I also couldn’t root for a Sven Ottke who was OK as a person but just a shame as a boxer imo. I’ve been talking about a tendency.
"Sure, there have been injuries and deaths in boxing – but none of them serious." Alan Minter
I suppose I am similar really. I like Kessler as a fighter and as a person but I was rooting for Froch even though I prefer Mikkel Kessler as a person. I prefer Froch as a fighter though so maybe it’s not strictly a national preference.
I find it difficult to dislike anything about both of them. Real fighters and strong, sympathetic individuals (but then, I’ve been living in both GB and Denmark for some time, so maybe that’s just some kind of adopted nationalism? ;).
"Sure, there have been injuries and deaths in boxing – but none of them serious." Alan Minter
I hate nationalistic bullshit
I agree with that mambocowboy, and i realise i went a bit over the top, and i know the differenc ebetween apathetic and pathetic (which i don’t think Rhodes was at all) but i just thought the “Englishman” criticism was uncallled for.
Can’t people talk about how good Canelo was/is instead?
Yeh i agree here but i think people are just angry because it had been built up as such a dangerous fight for Alvarez. People tend to blame the guy who was a letdown without analyzing too much of why he was a letdown. I was annoyed too since i stayed up till 5 o’clock UK time waiting for Rhodes to do something that ultimately was never gonna happen, i would rather have gone to sleep but that just happens. The difference in speed/power was pretty ridiculous and i think that was what put rhodes in to a shell.
Ultimately Alvarez is better than the majority of the division and the gulf in class was larger than most people thought (including myself). I’ve not seen many people but punches together as well as him
HBO posted a listed of their top five in the division. They believe (I’m not so sure) that cotto is the ‘elite of the division’. Canelo is certainly one of the best and has a very bright future.
I look forward to seeing him against a more willing and capable dance partner.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Me too. i think he was definately be more than a handful for anyone with his speed and power. He’s proved someone like Rhodes doesn’t really belong in the ring with him so now i think they have to start getting him some serious challenges which can only make for some great fights in the future. Between him and Cotto right now i would probably pick Alvarez if i had to pick a winner but it depends how much Cotto has left.
That is the question to ask
Making the fight won’t be easy and making it before Margarito won’t even be a question. Unfortunately, once Cotto rematches with AM, I don’t think either he or Margarito will have much or anything left for Canelo ….or anyone else for that matter.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I think Cotto will be fine. My initial enthusiasm has really faded. Not because of my moral objections, but because I fear four rounds of “punch the bad eye” before a doctor stoppage.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jun 19, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
i think people are just angry because it had been built up as such a dangerous fight for Alvarez.
I’m from the same county as Rhodes, and honestly, i never got my hopes up much for him in this fight, and my comments in earlier thread prove this. He hadn’t fought anyone in Canelo’s class before and the win over Jamie Moore was probably overrated because it was an entertaining brawl.
Moore was never more than Euro level.
I’m not taking away from Alvarez’ win, because Rhodes was a higly rated opponent in most respected lists, but Rhodes never had a shot at actually winning, imo.
Yeh that is a fair point and obviously when someone is in a thrilling fight they get hyped up alot. Moore also just came straight at Rhodes and made himself an easy target but i was immpressed with how patient Alvarez was, a few people have said he wouldn’t have to go looking for Canelo but in the end he couldn’t really hit him.
i just didn’t really realise the difference in speed until they got in to the ring and gave Rhodes a chance because i thought Canelo was poorer defensively and obviously because i thought Rhodes would throw more punches.
Moore-Rhodes sort of bears a similarity too mosley-margarito where mosley looked immense then was ultimately outlcassed by Mayweather and looked as if he couldn’t pull the trigger a year and a bit later.
Matt, the title of this article which quite frankly surprised me when it went up last night. was about an apathetic Englishman. Had Rhodes been from the Artic or the Antarctic, my opinion would have been the same and my wordplay (emphasis on play) would have been the same.
I wanted to see Canelo fight but the onlyt thing I could see was that he had a tentative opponent at the very best and an inept one at worst. He provided me personally very little insight into Canelo’s progress.
I watch Pacquiao because he fights dynamically every minute of every round. Mosely more than dissappointed me; he pissed me off by not engaging at all. That failure was rightfully highly criticized and most people, even lifelong SSM fans, had and have no problem sharing theit disdaid for his perrformance. And rightfully so.
We have no real idea if Manny has begun to decline, has shortcomings that were exposed that can possibly be exploited, had an off night….or just had an unwilling opponent who made those determinations difficult to ascertain.
Rhodes gave me nothing. So for me, I now have to wait to watch Canelo four to six months from know to see if he is getting as good as many are anticipating.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I’m not sure that you would say “a pathetic Mexican” if the opponent had been of that nationality and been outclassed as easily.
I read your post discrediting Froch’s win over Glen Johnson when many had been saying how good Johnson looked in beating Allan Green in the fight before.
To me, Alvarez was a big part of why Rhodes looked bad. He hurt RR every time he hit him, imo, and Rhodes himself has said since the fight that Alvarez’s body punching and general strength is what really hurt him.
But i admit Rhodes was disappointing. “Pathetic” is overly critical though, although i realise it was also word play on your part.
Rhodes overrated coming in?
I was listening to some people saying Rhodes was a live dog coming in, but after I found out he’d lost to Gary Lockett I seriously doubted he had any shot….
He lost to Lockett at 160 but had rebounded wonderfully in his career. It was really quite a story the way he turned it around.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jun 19, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
And Manny Pacquiao lost to Rustico Torrecampo
What Rhodes did six years ago in a different weight class and before making major improvements is simply irrelevant.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I may have but it happens most Mexican boxers happen to be reknowned for their willingness to engage….and not be apathetic. Thus I doubt Scott would have used the term.
But you might ask him.
I am always critial of Froch. I consider him a great fighter; the kind of guy I would take into a street fight, But watching him flail at Andre Dirrell who created the blueprint for CF’s most impressive win to date over AA doesn’t mean I think he’s a great boxer. But that is just an opinion that happens to mine.
Scour these pages for any words wriiten by me suggesting Johnson’s victory was impressive and I don’t believe you will find any. I love Johnson for working his ass off through most or all rounds of his professional and living with the decisions; many of which were not fair IMO. I don’t think he’s the measuring stick for Froch’s level of excellence.
Ward will be…and if Carl prevails, I’ll be the first to say it.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Look, i’m English and i’m as sick of the crap the likes of Haye and Froch talk and how Naz used to be (i hate that guy and he’s from my home county too). Some of them talk bigger than they can actually fight, but some, like Lennox Lewis, Nigel Benn, Joe Calzgahe, Ricky Hatton, etc, didn’t over sell themsleves and could actually fight. I’m not saying they are up there with the best ever, or even of their generation, but what i am saying is that not all Englishmen are big mouthed morons.
And i didn’t hear Ryan shouting his mouth off before the fight. He knew what he was up against.
Believe me, i’ll be shouting for Wlad when he fights Haye for the simple reason that i can’t stand the arrogance of Haye and his team.
And i regularly acknowledge the US as historically producing the best boxers, along with Mexico and Puerto Rico, etc.
I know the UK is not quite up there with the leading boxing nations but we do OK, imo.
The problem is that quite a few UK boxers seem to think they are better than they actually are.
Im scottish and obviously there aren’t many successful scots in boxing but i must say i dont mind the arrogance of Haye and Froch as long as they can back it up in the ring. So far Haye and Froch have more or less backed it up but i think without their arrogance they wouldn’t have got to where they are. Haye was legitimate crusierweight champion so he definately is world class and deserves a shot at Wlad since Wlad has basically wooped everyone else in the division.
I think some times people take comments too seriously, i dont think Haye cares what he says as long as it gets him a title shot. I dont think he has any real dislike for Wlad deep down he just wants to be heavyweight world champ and Klitschko is the one in his way. Boxing is entertainment and being a loudmouth(if you can fight even a bit) is a definate formula for getting people to watch boxing
For me, Froch has backed it up somewhat inresults, but his actual boxing ability leaves a lot to be desired, and he can be easily outboxed by the best in his division.
At heavyweight Haye still has to prove himself in this upcoming fight, imo.
If he does so he will have proved a lot of people wrong but that’s the risk you take with talking yourself up a lot.
Just a thought. This fight makes Mathew Hatton look good dosn’t it All things considered he did pretty well stepping up in weight and fighting a guy so much bigger and stronger than him.
Matthew is tougher than hell. That’s never been his problem, and he showed it again against Canelo. But I still don’t think he’s very good and if you matched him with Rhodes in six months, I think Rhodes would beat him. Styles make yada yada.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jun 19, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
No I am not suggesting that hatton is great. Only that he did increbily well all things considered . Rhodes is a boiled down middleweight fighting at light middle. Hatton is no more than a welterweight so yes Rhodes would ealily beat him.
I think Rhodes is a legit 154 — it’s where he started and where he’s had success in recent years too. Matthew’s performance against Canelo deserves more props now than even the initial reaction, which was that he was definitely a tough dude who did his best. I mean he really tried to win that fight with every ounce of talent and toughness he had. He just couldn’t.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jun 19, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not sure Rhodes would beat Matt Hatton at this stage. In fact, i don’t think he would.
Rhodes has been inconsisitent throughout his career and when you look at that record, it leaves a lot to be desired, imo. Plus he’s getting older.
Moore is his best win and Jamie never got above winning the Euro title.
Moore is his best win and Jamie never got above winning the Euro title.
Neither has Matthew, nor will he ever. I don’t think you’re underestimating Rhodes, I think you’re overestimating Matthew. Hatton can’t bust a grape (Roberto Belge isn’t as good as a grape) and I think Rhodes just picks him apart, able to fight his fight, which he couldn’t do against Canelo.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jun 19, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
All this said it’s a fight I’d tune in to see on my Saturday afternoon if it got made. I like both guys.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jun 19, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Rhodes fought the first 12 years of his pro career at 160 he has only been at 154 for a few years and he weighed 164 in a fight not so long ago. He is a bigger stronger man than hatton and woul beat him comfortably in my oppinion.
Rhodes fought the first 12 years of his pro career at 160
Well, no. He didn’t fight at 154 right off, but nobody ever fights at their proper weight until they start taking proper fights, and when Rhodes did, that was at 154, where he won the British title in his 11th fight and defended it twice, then was working his way up IBF ranks before he went to 160. He’s literally only had notable success at 154 in his career and his time spent at 160 was certainly important in his career, but he also wasn’t good there past the stiff test he gave Otis Grant in his first real fight at the weight.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jun 19, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I remember him fighting at 154 for a few years in the mid 90’s but he wend back to 160 within a couple of year where he staid for about 6 or seven years. Funny how you memory plays tricks on you. I still think of him as a middleweight who fights at lightmiddle because he is not much good at 160. Still to big for Hatton though, who really is a welterweight.
if you only knew
Funny how you memory plays tricks on you.
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry
At this stage, i think it would be a good fight. A couple of years ago, i would pick Rhodes all day long.
It would have be a catch weight and I hate friggin catchweights. There is always a valid exuse as to why a guy looses. He was to big or I was drained. It will always be a blot on Pacquiao’s incedible career.
It will always be a blot on Pacquiao’s incedible career.
Only to the dummies IMO.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jun 19, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think that Pacquiao’s career is in any way tainted or suspect, but I think the suggestion regarding the status of “catchweight” as a de facto, roaming division is a legitimate topic of conversation.
Personally, at my advanced age, I find the concept of “catchweight” a little bit dubious.
The draining weight with De La Hoya is not a reasonable excuse for him losing, imo.
But the questions about the legitimacy of Mosley and his latest foe, Marquez, as opponents, certainly are, imo.
Well, i could see that Oscar was underweight and overtrained in the 24/7 documentary, but, imo, that’s up to him to make sure he’s right for the fight and, who knows, you know, fighter’s make excuses regulalry.
In the case of Mosley, he’s old and shot, and with JMM, he’s getting old and he’s undersized.
Yeah, that one wasn’t a catchweight. It was 147. Oscar fucked himself over with poor training.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jun 19, 2011 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, catchweights are agreed on by both parties, you can’t take the fight and then use it as an excuse.It works both ways too, Pacquiao can’t use the excuse that he’s too small if he loses since he took the fight.
Obviously the Marquez fight is a different story
I am not suggesting that it not the choice of the fighters involved. If they choose to dissadvantage themselves to earn a huge amount of money then they get what they have bargained for. No doubt about it. It does detract from a win though if everone knows that the other guy is drained or fighting way above his weight. The Mayweather Marques thing is a perfects example of that.
I wish someone would write two articles here.
One, the history and rationale of catchweight: when did it start, why, and who has fought in this category.
Two, unrelated to the above, a retrospective on the career of Mills Lane. I watched two of Tyson’s fights earlier today, and both were refereed by Lane, and this reminded me of how much I enjoyed him.
Catchweights have been around for a very long time. Long before the start of the “modern era” (post-WWII). Basically ever since there was a sport, opponents have been agreeing to meet at other than the weight limits. It was and still is part of the negotiation process and a way to get fights signed we wouldn’t otherwise see.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
+1
Some of the ATG fighters used them and they produced some of the most signifiicant bouts….that otherwise would never have been made.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I certainly believe you.
But what I find odd is that I’ve watched boxing since the early 1960s, and never noticed this until relatively recently. Is this because it has gone from a rare phenomenon to a common occurrence?
I think it's because they are being used more often at the cvery top level
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry
The first one would be difficult. The second one would be lot's of fun.
From tough amature fighter to the marines to law school to refing to a judgeship to hiscourageous battle against a stroke. He was and is a lot of things—all good.He had the “pleasure” of working the 1) Fan Man. 2) The ear bitten off, and 3) The Oliver McCall breackdown against Lewis. Now each of these incidents is a notable entry in my memory bank, but what truly makes them memorable is that each was held in Las Vegas, each was for a
heavyweight title, and each was refereed by Mills Lane.
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry
Joe Walcott vs. Kid Lavigne at 131.5 pounds back in 1895 might have been one of the first.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
No I don’t think you’re a dope, it’s just I think catchweights aren’t as memorable as the fights. How about the weird negotiation for the SRL – Donny Lalonde fight?
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
It was an interesting fight and a brutal close by SRL.
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry
Sugar could close the show like few others
Plus he could fight three or four styles in any given fight, depending on what the situation and styles demanded.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I just think that with the far greater niche media cverage and scrutinity we have today, we are far more aware of the machinations before each fight.
Plus, we have comment boards and chats to critique each and every decision. And more often than not the opinions are colored by the opinion or the fighters….or loyalties toward one or the other… before the fights are made.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Well, if I recall it was a 167 catchweight that allowed them to fight for titles in two divisions (168 and 175).
A weird clause that resulted in a great fight. Lalonde was fighting both his weight and Sugar Ray, but had the natural size advantage which leveled the playing field.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
And he started strong and hurt Sugar early, but in the late rounds, SRL finally
caught up to him and then took him out with a sickening and letahal shot to his larynx. Man that was brutal to watch.
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry
Brutal and amazing
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Leonard knew when he had a man in trouble and was just lethal in closing him out
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
A dumb man is smart if he admits he is dumb."
Yogi,Berra
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry
How easy would it be
for a smart man to act like a stupid man attempting to be a smart man but still looking stupid? Just asking,
Well if he was really smart and pretending to be a stupid man who was pretending to be smart then I guess he would have to act stupid.
What is the sound of one stupid hand clapping?
(Sorry, bad joke.)
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Just by way of comparison
Look at Marco Antonio Rubio. He crapped his pants against Kelly Pavlik, yet since then has dominated some pretty good competition, including a good win over David Lemieux. Sometimes, a specific fighter presents style issues that just makes the other fighter tentative and not look very good. It’s not to take credit away from the losing fighter, but in many circumstances, someone just looks bad because they just aren’t prepared for what they actually see. Alvarez’s speed really seemed to bother Rhodes, and he just didn’t have an answer. Rather than open himself up to it, he just laid back. It was disappointing, but I don’t think Rhodes is necessarily shot, or a bad fighter. And he’s still much better than Hatton. Just his cojones aren’t quite as big.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I have to say i’m a bit disappointed with most of the regular Brit posters seemingly avoiding this thread today.
It’s no shame to admit you lost to the better man you know fellas. :)
Matt.. I'm here mate!!
I’ve had a busy day (Fathers day and all that). And yes, I hoped fir more from Rhodes, but that “ginga”.. Damn, he can fight. I must say I expected Ryan to go shit or bust towards the end, but it never happened. As the Ted says, them body shots took their toll.
Haha I’m here too! Been away for the weekend with my girlfriend in Cambridge – only just got back and catching up on this thread now!
"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."
by Oli Goldstein on Jun 20, 2011 2:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Mills's stroke was a bad one and left him with a lot of issues. Just didn't seem like the kind of guy
who would be delibitated by a stroke, Very sad,
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry
I am proud to say he was . Semper Fi--as was I
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry
He was, as well as a lawyer, a prosecuting attorney (I believe), and other things.
I wonder if it was the Marine in him that made him so fearless in the ring. He pushed around fighters probably over twice his weight, without a hint of fear, and with total command.
The other thing about him is that I believe he was born and raised in Nevada and no one
is born and raised in Nevada.
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry
Wow, this thread caught on fire like a Arizona Forest fire. Holy shite. I love ahot thread. You look up at the clock and an hour has gone by faster than you can say Pac-Man.
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry
SHOUT OUT TO SC
For the Title of this article.
Look at the power of a word.
This thread has so many great conversations simultaneously.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I think part of what people misunderstand about these catchweights is that, even though we have more divisions today than we began with, it doesn’t always level the playing field in a way that provides good matchups. For me, catchweights are a way to get two guys in the ring who you know will put on a good show, but giving a few disadvantages to the naturally bigger guy to even things out a bit risk-wise and performance-wise.
I think that’s why most of us were laughing when Floyd scaled in at 146 for his catch with JMM. Floyd was taking no chances whatsoever, even if he had to pay serious money for those two pounds.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
It was 600,000 USD if I recall
Has anyone ever paid that kind of fine before?
Many have paid a big price but none so wittingly in my recollection.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I don’t remember if it was 600K total or 600K per pound. Either way, ouch.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
So, as a sincere question in response,
How often would or is it important to get two such people in the ring? And when does it become a danger to clamor for a catchweight fight between two really exciting fighters that simply should not be in the ring together? I have in mind occasional suggestions for Martinez-Pacquiao.
Sometimes I imagine it’s just fans wishing for a ‘fantasy’ fight between two living fighters.
And sometimes it’s just ridiculous.
Most of the time it’s pretty reasonabl;e.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
OK, your guys have all convinced me.
I like catchweights now.
One area where I think its importance in arguable is in it’s boxing importance. The result doesn’t necessarily settle who is the ruler of a given division,,, or in the extreme case I noted, in TWO divisions, with Ray winning a title in a light heavyweight division he had never fought in and would never fight in. That was simply marketing and boxing politics.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Ah. You've returned me to my original and hopeless thought:
Divisions. Where are the lines drawn, and do they matter?
An I’m not saying that SRL vs. Lalonde wasn’t a great fight or a fair fight, because I think it was both. But in my mind it didn’t make SRL a light heavyweight champ.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
How often would or is it important to get two such people in the ring?
I guess that depends on perspective. If both guys think they can make a lot of money off of the fight (which is usually the whole reason for these catchweights to begin with), then its probably very important to them and to the fans willing to pay.
As for when it becomes a danger? I don’t think there’s any magic formula. In the case of the larger guy coming down in weight, bodies are different and certain fighters can trim down more without drying out and becoming a health risk. In the case of the smaller guy coming up, certain fighters can do it without becoming fat and slow, while others can’t. Case-by-case situation, in my opinion.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
You don’t think Martinez is just too strong, then?
Alvarez looked to me to be impressively solid against Rhodes, but I still got a little of that “thin ice” sense about him. I would still call the fight for Martinez right now.
Well, Martinez is a small middleweight and was at 154 for a long time, whereas Alvarez is only 20 and growing all the time. His back looked huge to me yesterday. He has that thick look to him and i think he will grow out of 154 in a year or so. I bet he struggles a bit making weight already.
Martinez is slicker but Alvarez is younger and would have more experience by that time.
I think he would be a tough challenge for SM in a year or so.
"That thick look"
is what I noticed immediately. The guy seems to have grown remarkably in a very short time. The difference might be in hurt factor, in that Martinez can really hurt someone, but so far I haven’t seen that same degree of stun from Alvarez.
But, I really hope Alvarez is around for a while; he’s getting pretty good.
yeah,
That’s what I noticed. He just looked huge next to Rhodes. It just seemed to me that if you could design a perfect body for boxing, this kid’s would be it. Those sturdy, sturdy legs—big bones and muscle to match all around.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
I don’t think that Alveres is or will be ready for Martinez until Martinez fades. In my oppinion he is a great fighter.
Alvarez tends to confuse people including me because of his age. I mean how can a 21 year old kid have 37 fights against good opposition, improve with each fight, have old school moves, and now all of a sudden a solid defense, and also be an “Event Fighter” (like Bute is in Montreal)? I tell you Canelomania is here and we may be witnessing something very special.
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry
Thats why i thought Rhodes got overly criticised by some. Canelo’s defence was noticeably improved last night. Also, he waited for his moments to attack. He could have ended it earlier, imo.
Yeah, I was trying to remember (still can’t) which thread we were talking about fighters carrying other fighters, and I really felt SA was into giving the customers what they came for and saving the KO till the last round. Nothing at all was stopping him from finishing earlier.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
Wow. Our posts crossed in cyber space but made the same point.
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry
Canelo has the look of somebody that will be in some memorable fights. His demeanor and style will at some point have him in a truly great battle.
A side note about his footwork, I thought it looked pretty good. It isn’t flashy by any stretch of the imagination but I can’t really think of many fighters, esp. at his age, who seem to have the balance he does. His feet are right underneath his shoulders for the entirety of the fight.
Chinese tutor has arrived.
Gotta go. Thanks for a wonderful afternoon, everyone.
DrRck: Divisions. Where are the lines drawn, and do they matter?
I guess this is a whole other discussion, but I’d like a thread talking about it. For me, the least useful jumps have always been 154 and 168 (when they created it, this was an especially controversial one among boxing people I talked to). meanwhile, I think that the cruiserweight division was a good idea (even though its a financial flunk), since after WWII and particularly in the U.S. you started seeing more bodies that could carry larger amounts of weight more efficiently (not fat tubs or tall, awkward beanpoles). I suspect this has a lot to do with the mass introduction of hormones into the food suppy post war, as well as the wider availability and lower cost of the meat they yielded.
Anyway, the curve of the weight classes is definitely trying to mimic the general way weight distributes with taller people, although there will always be freaks of nature. So it’s trying to address body types in a more objective way. That’s why the bigger the guy the bigger the jump to the next class, because weight difference means more at the lower end of the scale than it does at the higher end.
Meanwhile, max weight is there to accommodate all body types, since at a certain point on the scale, human beings bodies start getting less proportional and more weird, and packing more weight on the frame can have as many disadvantages as it does advantages. For instance, nobody thinks that a 350-lb Gabe Brown is carrying many natural advantages into the ring with him.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
I'm late joining in tonight lads, so pardon me if I state the obvious or go over old ground.
I have to say I really hoped Ryan would have done better or even TRIED a little harder, but Alvarez was simply the better man.. by far. It was like watching Naz being put firmly in his place by Barrera again. As awkward as that switch hitting Wincobank style us, it means fuckall when you have Alvarez’s talent. I thought he was great to watch and look forward to seeing him again.
by Phill on Jun 19, 2011 4:48 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Those monster body shots took alot out of RR and put him on the defense. Too bad, because he is
a good scrapper.
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry
True that Ted.
he hits hard, and often. He appears to have the ability to move up a few gears instantly too.
Harold Lederman
did fine, I thought, while it lasted (a nanosecond). I’d like to hear more.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
Poor Jason. Sooner or later, you just knew it would happen. That jaw was made for concussing. At least Broner didn’t do much of the showboating afterwards.
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry
So he didn’t dougie around the ring this time? Shame.
by The Twillness on Jun 19, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Sad this hotel doesn’t have HBO, but it’s nice to see Canelo is progressing as apposed to being content with being the popular red headed mexican. He’s great to watch, he’s one of the few boxers that really puts their punches together well, and good defense mean’s he’ll be hell to deal with in future.
The fact that this thread was so hot should tell us something about Canelomania
"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry
This is so far down I doubt anyone reads it lol
But I thought Canelo looked really good. Best Canelo Ive ever seen, actually. His D looked more improved and his combos were sick. He actually (and I know Ill get hated on for it) gave me flashes of Manny Pac with his combos.
His popularity is climbing. I’m starting to hear more and more chatter about him everywhere I go. Good for Boxing!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
I read it
I can say that in online buzz, Canelo equaled Chavez this month. They’re both shooting up that chart, for whatever it’s worth (I think it has to be worth something)
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jun 20, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Any ratings come out yet?
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
by xFenixKnightx on Jun 20, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Not that I’ve seen, but I’m sure it won’t be long (as long as they were impressive)
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jun 20, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, just proves one thing anyway, despite what they say.....
Ginger people CAN be popular after all…… (Ducks for cover whilst running with hands on ears)…
Only jesting people. :)
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