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Around SBN: Win or Lose, Boston Celtics' New Big 3 Era A Success

Who's good at looking good? How to win rounds without trying.

 

 

The recent controversial decision of Devon Alexander over Lucas Mattyhysse brought out a few backhanded compliments like: "No one gets credit for missed punches like Alexander." Conversely, Doug Fischer of THE RING magazine blames Matthysse for "taking his foot of the pedal" since Matthysse was in his opponent's proverbial backyard the logic goes that he "can't complain."

Now, is Devon Alexander a puppet of promotional invesment and is Lucas Matthysse a world beater  robbed of his rightful place as champion? That’s for you to decide. But, this debate brings to mind a broader question.Which fighters know how to look like they are winning? And, how do they manage to pull of the semblance of victory when CompuBox and popular opinion differ?

The first thing to get out of the way are actually ones like this Alexander / Matthysse fight because if the result is simply a hometown-gift decision, then there is nothing interesting going on- only corruption.

However, when there is  real strategy behind "appearing to win" I am interested in charting the variations.

"Finish strong and be flashy"

Muhammed Ali had a strong boxing I.Q. which complimented his physical talents. Especially later in his career he could throw combinations which might not have equalized the amount of punishment he took, but seemed to take over command of the ring. In addition to eye catching activity in spurts, Ali was well aware that saving something memorable for the last few rounds would help sway judges on a close fight.


"Flurries steal rounds"

Sugar Ray Leonard is infamous for his alleged-ed robbery of Marvin Hagler. I personally believe that Leonard won fair and square, and he did it in part with flurries. Some might consider quick arm punches amateurish, but what they lack in power they make up for in misdirection. They have the dual benefit of demonstrating activity and distracting an opponent from a hard punch that they didn't expect. The fact is flurries are useful for a judge that wants help where neither fighter has landed something significant in the round.

"Look busy"

A young Oscar Delahoya was a great fighter to watch, partially because he had fast hands and powerful left hook, but partially because he just kept coming. In his controversial win over Pernell Whitaker, Delahoya may have been slowed by the defensive genius but not discouraged enough to stop throwing just because he missed or was blocked. Later in his career Delahoya failed against such opponents as the larger Hopkins and the slicker Mayweather Jr. but his active work rate always helped him seem competitive even in defeat.

"A good chin makes the other guy look bad"

Julio Cesar Chavez certainly discouraged his opponents with relentless pressure and heavy hands, but he also built up his hall of fame record by knowing how to take a punch. When you take a combination of punches to the head and continue coming forward it makes those punches seem less powerful even if they really had weight behind them. This strategy is a combination of rolling with the punches, a strong chin, and sometimes acting. If you compare Chavez fight with Roger Mayweather compared to Pernell Whitaker's fight with Roger Mayweather you'll notice that the Pernell fight seems a lot closer even though he threw more punches then Chavez against the mutual opponent simply because Pernell was more effected by getting hit.

"Don't get hit clean"

Floyd Mayweather Jr. throws very few punches for a winner, and this is testament to both his accurate punching as well as his ability to evade return fire. If you manage the feat, evading direct shots to your head really makes you look good. This might seem like a truism, but the fact is sometimes even a thudding body blow is harder to notice then a short jab toward the head. This is especially true in close fighting that might shield some judges eyes from the action. The shoulder roll technique also concedes that the opponent is throwing punches, but suggests they "shouldn't count" because they are being "caught" even when they do land. During the opening rounds of the Zab Judah fight, in which, Judah was much busier than Mayweather, but the commentators couldn't help but notice Mayweather's defense as well.

"Be crafty"

Bernard Hopkins is now honored for being a crafty fighter, but what does that mean exactly? Some people might suggests its simply a euphemism for what might be illegal clinching or rabbit punches. However, Hopkins is also crafty in subtle ways, he knows how to hold without looking like he is the one who wants to be holding. He knows how to throw a combination and then feint enough to catch his breath. He knows when to showboat to help win a fight instead of just as a way to laminate his victory. Hopkins drew on all of these techniques to bewilder and discourage Jean Pascal on his way to becoming the oldest boxing champion ever (in Pascal's backyard).

"Be loose and return fire"

Manny Pacquiao has had many incarnations, both literally and figuratively in the ring. Two, specific instance stand out as examples of Pacquiao looking like a winner without having to do very much more than his opponent. In what would be his coming out party George Foreman commented that Pacquiao didn't need to box the champion Ledwaba just to fight him. Pacquiao had an obvious strength advantage in that case, but his willingness to return a combination  rather than reset his defense kept his lighter-weight opponents from gaining ground on the scorecard. The second instance was mentioned by Emmanuel Steward early in Pacquiao's fight with Miguel Cotto. Pacquiao's in-an-out movement and "odd angles" were eye catching and seemed to have purpose even before the punches were thrown in numbers.

 "Write the narrative."

Willie Pep is an old time boxer who is still famous in part because of a legend of his own devising. Pep who was an elusive and quick fighter, claimed he would win the third round of his fight with Jackie Graves without throwing a punch. Crucial to the story is that he bragged this plan to a few reporters before the fight so they know what to look for. I find this technique is both used inside and outside the ring, outside the ring certain fighters will call or predict a certain fighting style which can frame the way people then judge the outcome. However, within the ring, each round is a story where both boxer's struggle for authorship. This debate is sometimes obvious when both fighters stand toe-to-toe until the bell, but sometimes the arch is more subtle. Its the difference between rounds that sometimes tells the tale. Has a fighter been pressuring the first two rounds then resorted to boxing in the third? If so, I think judges tend to attribute this to being the other guys choice, giving him the round even if the output is equal.

So, who actually won?

In the above examples, I purposefully chose not only winners, but champions who knew how to look like they were winning. In almost all of the above cases, not only did they look like they were winning but were certainly winning by every criteria including appearances.

This is crucial, because after all, ring generalship and halting your opponent are legitimate things by which a judge will score a fight. However, perhaps in all fights there are close rounds which don't truly belong to either fighter. In these cases, we can only imagine it is the superior winner-of-rounds that gets the score.

What other ways do you think fighters learn to look like they are winning?

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good post

I can’t think of any others, but more knowledgeable minds I’m sure may think of variations…seemed like a pretty good list.

"I live what you talk. I Live What You Talk.'’ (Bernard Hopkins)

by BrianBrock on Jun 27, 2011 1:07 PM EDT reply actions  

I would say "Press the action"

Counter-punching is a really hard thing to do, which is why there are so few guys who are truly good at it. I’m not saying that Pacquiao’s style is easier to emulate than someone like Floyd, but Pacquiao’s style is easier to emulate than Floyd’s.

That’s why if I’m watching Fight Nigh Club or Top Rank Live with just one eye while also doing something else (I’m a parent: it will happen to you someday, too) I usually just try to notice who’s coming forward and they’re usually the guy who gets their hand raised. If I do notice someone countering effectively (making them miss AND making them pay) I make a mental note to remember the name. Fighters who can master those subtleties are so few and far between nowadays. Too many rely on athleticism rather than sound technique, and then they run up against a truly skilled fighter and are exposed.

Most people don't know shit about boxing. At all. Period. - Roger Mayweather

by The Kittitas Kid on Jun 27, 2011 6:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Smile and raise you fist as you come back to your corner after the round ends. Like Brandon Rios does,

"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry

by Boss Man on Jun 28, 2011 12:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Come out of your corner way earlier than your opponent and start doing pushups, like BHop against Pascal. Seriously irritating for your opponent and makes him look quite old, even if he’s about half of your own age.

"Sure, there have been injuries and deaths in boxing – but none of them serious." Alan Minter

by DrHenrik on Jun 28, 2011 3:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Say “I feel great” loud enough so at least the closest judge hears it. Might add, “I got this guy’s number.”

"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry

by Boss Man on Jun 29, 2011 12:00 PM EDT reply actions  

terrific post

informative, well written, and entertaining

by sunzlight on Jul 1, 2011 2:40 PM EDT reply actions  

+1

"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry

by Boss Man on Jul 2, 2011 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

“Be big.”

Over the years I’ve noticed that in really close fights, the bigger man often gets the nod.

Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"

by Matt Miller on Jul 2, 2011 1:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Plus throwing your opponent to the floor early migh impress,

"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry

by Boss Man on Jul 6, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Stiffen your neck.

Manny Pacquiao may have lost some rounds against Marquez and Morales because his head snaps back greatly when hit.

Why dont we ever see the headline "Psychic
wins lottery" in the newspapers?

by sick frank on Jul 6, 2011 3:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Also, keep your hair cut short so it doesn't fly all over the place when you are hit. The splatter

of sweat is bad enough.

"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry

by Boss Man on Jul 6, 2011 4:41 PM EDT reply actions  

I always wondered why guys like Atlas and Bernstein did not say more about how those long trunks are

a disability. When Oscar fought, he always wore high trunks for maximum freedom. Most smart boxers do. Every little edge adds up to one big edge.

"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry

by Boss Man on Jul 6, 2011 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

When I first saw boxing again after all those years, I was just thunderstruck and hugely amused/concerned at the New Look in boxing drawers, and couldn’t believe the commissions allowed it, some seem so—almost dangerous to me. I’m convinced that one name-forgotten FMF fighter at the Roxy in Boston was felled by his pants, they were HUUUUGE and entirely covered with real glass-type sequins, had to weigh a metric ton dry, and were soon soaked with sweat—down he went.

Lately I notice the boxing hemline starting to climb, looks much better—Canelo wears shorter pants, Bute now often does, they’ve surely got to be much better to fight in, and they look better on most body types too.

There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939

by BoxAnne on Jul 9, 2011 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Except for Lennox, of course.

"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry

by Boss Man on Jul 6, 2011 9:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Great post ...

I disagree with you re: Leonard – Hagler. I have no problem with Leonard “throwing flurries” in order to win rounds – I have a problem when the vast majority of the “punches” thrown in said flurries fail to hit anything but the opponents gloves.

I think Sugar Ray Leonard was/is an all-time great, and the Hagler fight certainly doesn’t diminish his legacy – regardless of whether or not you feel he legitmately won the fight. But he stole several rounds in that fight, no doubt, because he would suddenly throw a bunch of punches in the last seconds – failing to hit much of anything – and the crowd would roar its approval while the judges bought it.
Best example of “stealing rounds” and a fight you could reference.

I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.

by Vacafan on Jul 7, 2011 6:39 PM EDT reply actions  

It is still a lot of fun to talk about Leonard v. Hagler

Yeah, I agree punches that only hit gloves shouldn’t sway a judge, but I think the reason I still think Leonard won rather than stole his victory has a lot to do with what Hagler didn’t do. I think he was pretty well stymied by Leonard’s movement and speed, although he did land the harder punches.

I really like Hagler a lot, so whenever anyone feels obliged to defend Hagler’s honor I am always willing to concede that Hagler could probably have beaten Leonard in his youth and probably could have beaten Leonard when Leonard was past his prime (I mean, Camacho did, so granted that isn’t saying too too much.)

by Sean Mills on Jul 7, 2011 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Prime to prime, SRL would have boxed circles around Hagler.

"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry

by Boss Man on Jul 7, 2011 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

SRL wins 7 or 8 out of 10 times

"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry

by Boss Man on Jul 7, 2011 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is crazy talk. You see what Hagler did to Hearns?

Ditto Leonard. Had Hearns had a little more experience, and a referee that wasn’t looking to stop the fight the first sign of trouble, Hearns beats Leonard in the first fight, too.

I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.

by Vacafan on Jul 8, 2011 2:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Huh?

Hearns beats Leonard in the first fight, too

"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry

by Boss Man on Jul 8, 2011 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

He beat him the second time they fought ...

like I said, if the first fight hadn’t been stopped prematurely, I think he wins the first fight, too.
(And please don’t even ‘suggest’ Hearns didn’t win the 2nd fight.)

I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.

by Vacafan on Jul 8, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

True - Hearns was hurt.

I was thinking about every other round. ;-) Those count, too.

I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.

by Vacafan on Jul 8, 2011 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

ha

"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry

by Boss Man on Jul 9, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'll give you this ...

Hagler gave away some early rounds for reasons I still can’t figure out. Almost as if he was sleep-walking through them, while Leonard pit-patted his way to an early lead. Stupid for not fighting southpaw as well.
Boss Man below says Leonard would’ve won 8 outta 10 “in their prime” … shoot, they fight that fight the very next night, and Hagler knocks him out in 2. Hell, had it been a 15 rounder, Hagler wins as well.
Pick up a copy of Sorcery at Caesars by Steve Marantz if you get a chance – great read re: the Leonard/Hagler fight. As you can tell, I’m still pissed 25 years later. I was always a big Hagler guy, and got real tired of Leonard’s “golden boy” image.
I’ve seen worse decisions, don’t get me wrong, it was a close fight. But I thought Hagler won. I think if you were giving a lecture on the debate regarding what should “count” more when scoring a fight – quantity of punches vs. quality of punches, this would be your model.

I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.

by Vacafan on Jul 8, 2011 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

There is a lot of truth to this ...

Hagler was lazy early … I don’t know if he thought he’d simply steamroll Leonard later, or what, but like I mentioned above, Hagler gave away the early rounds and it cost him.
Hagler was the better fighter – take a look at the two afterwards – didn’t someone once say, “You wanna know who won the fight? Look at the two boxers when the final bell rings, and you’ll know.” Leonard might’ve “won” the decision, but if the same thing had played out behind a bar somewhere, you’d of come home and told your wife, “I just watched some guy named Hagler beat the sh** out of some guy named Leonard.”

I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.

by Vacafan on Jul 8, 2011 2:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

SRL had a higher ring IQ than Hagler IMHO.

"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry

by Boss Man on Jul 8, 2011 10:04 AM EDT reply actions  

I'd make you define "ring IQ" before I argued the point with you ...

I certainly think Leonard was a better “boxer” (hand speed, footwork, quickness) — sometimes I think people equate these skills with “ring IQ”, and I don’t think that’s necessarily fair. IOW, the knockout-artist can be just as “ring smart” as the dancer.
Now, I think you can make a very strong case that Leonard was “smarter” than Hagler in their fight, no doubt. Leonard knew he’d have to run and hide – pick his spots and try to steal rounds with late flurries with the crowd behind him. It’s exactly what he did, and he stole the decision that way. Hagler was ‘dumb’ in that he didn’t press the action from the very start – he somehow decided that boxing right-handed at times would confuse Leonard (it only gave him confidence), and he allowed Leonard to dictate pace at times.

I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.

by Vacafan on Jul 8, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't understand your post. Hagler could not adjust nearly qs well as SRL could. Once Hagler committed to a

fight plan, he stuck to it (Geraldo, Duran, SRL, Seales, etc.). Of course his plan was good enough to beat almost all of his opponents. He was a great closer , but SRL was an even better one. As for Ring IQ, I can define it as well as anyone I know in the boxing business, but to be very candid, I’m plumb worn out with writing about boxing these days and am even contemplating retiring from the activity come Jan 2012 (God wiling). Of course, my new crime book will be out by then so when Hollywood picks it us as a screenplay, I’ll join Haye in Monaco and live happily ever after

"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry

by Boss Man on Jul 8, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Didn't mean to imply you couldn't "define" it ... just wondered how you defined it.

From your post above, it looks as if “adjustments” factor in – I would agree with that … but yeah, if you rarely (if ever) need to make adjustments, I don’t think this should be seen as a knock on your ring IQ.
I’m not objective – I was never a Leonard fan (obviously) – but if you asked me who the better fighter was over the course of his career, I’d say Hagler, easy.
What I was trying to say is that I think some people automatically assume the smoother boxer is the “smarter” one – simply because he moves, boxes, that sort of thing. The puncher comes straight ahead. So he’s obviously the “dumb” one — I just don’t think it’s a fair assumption.
I’d really be interested in hearing why, exactly, you think Leonard was a “smarter” fighter than Hagler. For example, he wasn’t real ‘bright’ in the first Duran fight.

I needed a team so I wouldn’t turn into one of the eighty million pink hat-wearing Bud Light-drinking mulleted idiots at Fenway.

by Vacafan on Jul 8, 2011 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree that that is not a fair assumption.

"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry

by Boss Man on Jul 9, 2011 10:01 AM EDT reply actions  

In fact, to support your point, I'd go against the grain and say Brandon Rios has a high ring IQ.

He seems to know where he is at all times during a fight even when it’s rock and roll time. Yet he stays composed enough to remain in control. His opponent stalking and closing off of the ring is pure old school.

"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry

by Boss Man on Jul 9, 2011 10:04 AM EDT reply actions  

Maybe we should write another fanpost entitled: “Who’s good at looking bad and still winning fights?” in light of yesterday’s P-Will atrocity.

Bob Arum would promote Lucifer himself if he could put asses in the seats.

by Apprentice on Jul 10, 2011 11:40 AM EDT reply actions  

That’s easy! Sven Ottke!

"Sure, there have been injuries and deaths in boxing – but none of them serious." Alan Minter

by DrHenrik on Jul 10, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Rios did it last night at the end of the second round when he had that big smile on his face even though

that imbecile Gus was calling it a close round.

"Luck is when preparation meets opportunity." - Mike Quarry

by Boss Man on Jul 10, 2011 2:52 PM EDT reply actions  

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