Julio Cesar Chavez Jr Claims First Belt With Win Over Sebastian Zbik
by Scott Christ on Jun 5, 2011 12:26 AM EDT
in Boxing Results and Post-Fight Analysis
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Julio Cesar Chavez Jr picked up the first major belt of his professional boxing career with a decision win over Sebastian Zbik tonight at the Staples Center in Los Angeles, winning a majority decision on scores of 116-112, 115-113 and 114-114. Bad Left Hook scored the fight 116-112 for Zbik. In the co-feature, Mikey Garcia knocked out Rafael Guzman in four.
I'd give you the nuts and bolts of the main event, but you probably already know. For years, HBO didn't get into the Julio Cesar Chavez Jr business, and a lot of that was or is because he's not a very good fighter. He draws fans, and he's not embarrassing, and he's a tough kid who seems to try his very best. As someone in the live thread said, it's not Jr's fault that he's basically a pawn in the business game of boxing. He's popular. He's going to be put into positions where either a win is a given, or he can win without much terrible controversy.
There probably won't be much outrage over this. I can't muster up much, either. And to be fair to Chavez (43-0-1, 30 KO), he closed the fight strong, and he won the last two rounds clear and clean. He did some good work in the fight, wearing Zbik (30-1, 10 KO) down with body shots over the course of the fight. He did his job, fighting the man in front of him to the best of his ability.
And as much as I understand that the gate receipts and the huge fanbase will make the world go 'round, we're talking about a genuinely mediocre fighter who has been protected and will continue to be protected. Do you think Top Rank puts him in the ring with someone like Marco Antonio Rubio? They'll look for the right matchups, so he can keep winning, and keep pulling in all that money. He's a cash cow. I accept it.
But it doesn't mean I have to like it, either. Yes, I'll point out that Timothy Bradley can't draw flies to shit, but I don't do so with glee or anything. Bradley is a good fighter who has fought and beaten other good fighters. It's a shame that the general indifference to boxing means that Timothy Bradley has an uphill climb to be a "star."
Chavez, on the other hand, was born into this, and basically unless he was truly, almost unnaturally bad, this was going to be his life. The green belt and the afterglow of the "big win" and eventually, inevitably, the biggest TV network in the U.S. boxing land having to tout him as a second coming.
So I sort of come to a point where I have to wonder what disappoints me more -- a good fighter who can't draw for whatever reason, or a mediocrity who can and will always be treated like royalty, until he can no longer pack the house?
I said before the fight that I couldn't think of an HBO main event where I thought less of the skill level of two main eventers. I stand by that after we've seen them fight. This happened because the United States is not overcrowded with popular boxers.
It's not that I'm disappointed or upset or anything. Actually it's the opposite -- I have no emotional reaction to this at all. It was predictable. I completely disagree with the decision on who won the fight, but I expected I would disagree once we got past the fifth round or so.
The cash cow got his green belt, and now can celebrate, and everyone involved can toast champagne into the wee hours, and they can all get together in a week and figure out how to accentuate the positives and hide, if not eliminate, the negatives. It will carry on as it has.
I'm sure some will think I'm being harsh, and that's fine. It's not that I hate Chavez's fights, or really have anything against him. Again, he's just doing his job. It's just that every once in a while, the reality of a situation like this one just sort of gives me that big, empty feeling. I shouldn't have watched, maybe. It's not like I had to to know what would happen.
He is what he is, and he will almost certainly never be more. He's not good enough. But he is popular enough, and he's got the right name and the right fanbase. And he fights hard, and with real pride. It's not all bad. But it's sure as hell not truly good.
And life goes on.
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Junior is not even one shred of his old man
Yeah, sure, pappa has his detractors, and some of them even have a point. But his kid is not even in the discussion. This is typical of fighters’ sons (Maromero, Hearns, Camacho, etc) and isn’t likely to change anytime soon. The big difference is that JCC is worshipped like a catholic saint in Mexico, so his son gets extra special treatment.
Like Scott says above, it is what it is. There is no World Boxing Police that are are going to stop it. The only things that could stop it at this point is less than carfeful matchmaking, or Junior himself.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
by jrok on Jun 5, 2011 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well I certainly wasn't comparing Jr to Sr in terms of talent or boxing skill
That ought to have been evident, Jrok. Its the shady shit that I don’t like. That is where the parallel exists. More to the point, I’m not a fan of nepotism, or aristocracy, or whatever one may call it. Its transparent horseshit, and yeah, there’s nothing you or I can do about. But I’m going to complain. In some small way it makes me feel slightly better to piss and moan.
Oh, and while I’m at it, Meldrick got hosed
Oh, and while I’m at it, Meldrick got hosed
I agree. Jrok doesn’t.
"You can't search me without probable cause Or that proper ammunition they call reasonable suspicion Listen while I bring friction to your whole jurisdiction" - Fugees
Not Robbed. Jobbed!!
This one was written when it was made.
Zbik was an underpowered middleweight with zero power. He fought like a glorified amatuer champion, which is what he was. He was scoring virtually at will up top but he had no game down below. That may have gained him a fine pedigree and a belt but his a mediocre professional IMO
Yet even with zero chance of seriously hurting Julio, Julio found a way to get hurt by standing in front of Zbik and backing straight up.
Conclusion: Junior sucks. I await the day he loses his zero and returns in his new trousers made by Sansibelt.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Body punching never scores points unless your name is Chavez Jr.
I dont know how in one night HBO can make an arguement that body punching should give you a round where you get hit in the face 45 times and land only 20 punches and 10 of them are body punches.
I did not compare Sweet Pea to fucking Zbik. And I never will. Just pointing out that daddy’s horseshit has been passed down to Little Junior. Only Jr. can’t fight, so its, ya know, a bit more horseshit.
Daddy didn't have "horseshit"
What daddy had, in several fights. was one-card-of-three that was bought and purchased. It did not mean he lost those fights, it just meant that his his opponents started a card in the hole. He legit won most of the fights that guys bitch about, but they were closer than JCC’s one “holy card.”
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Well whether it is one card or all three, its unethical. Ungentlemanly. Against the better angels of our nature. Or as I would eloquently like to put it, “horseshit”
It wasn’t Chavez’s fault. And, he won most of those fights anyway. "Horseshit" is when you pay the opponent to take a dive, or pay the judges to scalp a guy who clearly won. A big example is when guys will say to me that LaPorte got robbed against Chavez. LaPorte was a great fighter, but he didn’t get robbed. He would have lost no matter WHAT Sid Nathan scored it.
It’s unethical, it’s ungentlemanly, but it’s only "horseshit" if the wrong guy wins.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Fair enough
I don’t like to differentiate between intentions and results. But valid reasoning, I suppose.
Chavez Sr. didn't get the "win" against Sweet Pea
That’s a different result.
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
Well yes it was a draw, but it was less than what Sweet Pea deserved. And all I was stating was my personal animus to an action that intends to influence a decision. Whether it does or doesn’t, it intends to sway a fight, and that isn’t right. But year, really fucked up that Sweet Pea didn’t get that W.
Anywho, all of your posts have brought me to realize something though: my frustration is probably misplaced. And I might as well say forget it, leave Daddy and Jr. Chavez alone, and call it Chinatown.
Next time I’ll just complain about Arum…
BTW, Some thought the judges were phoning it in
I thought the HBO commentary was scripted and being read from behind a curtain. The Politburo and Pravda would have been proud.
Tonight, everyone but Kellerman maintained the party line.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I thought the HBO commentary was scripted and being read from behind a curtain. The Politburo and Pravda would have been proud.
I thought Bob and Lederman were just ridiculous – just reeked of bias. Lederman sounded like he could genuinely be drunk.
"You can't search me without probable cause Or that proper ammunition they call reasonable suspicion Listen while I bring friction to your whole jurisdiction" - Fugees
lmao
they probably were drinking. All of them. The whole evening was pre-planned. The video interview. The commentary. The decision.
All of it … except the fight. That is how bad Chavez sucks.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
This is why MMA is taking over
Let me be the 1st person to point out the emperors clothes. Chavez lost that fight and it was a total home cooked decision in the pro Mexican crowd in LA. You can look at the punch stat numbers and see how big of a sham this thing was. I watched a night of three different combat sporting events TUF Finale; Glen Johnson vs. Carl Froch; and then Chavez Jr. vs Zbik. The difference is that the TUF had objective announcers solid up and coming talent. A true farm system so that you get to know and relate to young "talented" fighters. The other two boxing events were the total opposite. I watched partisan announcers and terrible judging. I could go on for days about this but I will summarize and just go to bed.
1. Chavez sucks and was clearly beaten on points in this fight.
a. HBO should be a shamed of itself with the idea that landing hard body shots, is better than a guy landing clean, solid, hard shots to the head.
b. Chavez will not fight Martinez if they offered him $100M or Williams or any other top level guy above 130.
c. SMH…if they even think of letting Manny fight him just to have Pac Man take the middle weight WBC belt.
2. Showtime is almost as bad….key word almost
a. Johnson won that fight or it was a draw at best
b. Froch got hit with hard clean shots and lost 5-6 rounds min.
c. Had the names of the fighter been different the score cards would have been different as well.
d. Froch had good ring generalship but he clearly got hit with heavy shots and threw punches that did not land and got credit because he is the bigger draw.
e. Johnson still put on a good show and we will see him again.
I am a boxing fan, (obviously I am on this site) I would even go so far as to consider myself a hard core fan. But this is getting ridiculous. This is almost like the WWE where the promoter determines the outcome before the event starts. Froch vs Ward is a much better final than Johnson vs Ward (I get it) but doesn’t make it right. Chavez winning is better for the financial side of boxing but the sport can’t last like this for much longer.
And finally why boxing is doomed, the best fighters don’t fight each other and the public doesn’t care or know who the young fighters are. We need Pac Man and Pretty Boy to fight. Williams needs to fight at 147 and take on the winner of Pac Man and Pretty Boy or fight Victor Ortiz or Berto. Look at the UFC "only" the top fighters fight each other, all UFC events have multiple fights with good young fighters that you have seen at other events. SMH…that boxing didn’t continue with some version of the contender (but with real contenders and not old out of shape journey men). Boxing sucks right now and I cant take much more of this….smh
This is why MMA is taking over
UFC became more popular than boxing years ago in the United States.
TUF had objective announcers
The UFC has a lot of things, but unbiased commentary is not one of them. They’re shills.
Johnson won that fight or it was a draw at best
You’re in the vast minority here. I mean I’m not challenging you to change your mind, but I haven’t seen anyone outraged that Johnson lost. Most felt Froch won clearly.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
I had it a draw as well. I’m not really outraged at the outcome, but I think Froch was, for the most part, being overly cautious because Johnson was rocking him even if he wasn’t able to put him down. I saw a few rounds people gave to Froch that I really didn’t understand, but I acknowledge I am in the minority so I just take my lumps and go on.
Bob Arum would promote Lucifer himself if he could put asses in the seats.
I am mad about the Chavez decision though… so transparent.
Bob Arum would promote Lucifer himself if he could put asses in the seats.
Yea, and predictable. I think our collective outrage has been muted by the early recognition that the cards would be fucked. Zbik knew it was gonna happen.
"You can't search me without probable cause Or that proper ammunition they call reasonable suspicion Listen while I bring friction to your whole jurisdiction" - Fugees
Had this been Hopkins vs Froch...do you get the same score from the judges?
Hopkins would be Johnson. I may be in the minority but I still think it was a preception score. Did Froch land hard clean punches? No… did he get hit with hard clean punches…over a number of rounds. There was no way shy of a KO that Johnson would have gotten a decision, and it was a great fight. And my final point is, had this fight been exactly the same as it was. But change the names and Froch lands hard clean punches but Johnson stays busy but doesn’t land a lot, but throw’s a ton of punches. No he would have loss no matter what. Thats my point… the scoring in not objective and thats why the sport is not what it was..amoung other reasons (mostly the rise of football and basketball in america)
well – there was an MMA card tonight. The main even was absolutely brutal to watch – the most boring display of Lay N Pray that I’ve seen – and I enjoy the sport and have spent quite a bit of time in a Gracie Jits only gym.
And whatever – MMA’s growing and all that.
"You can't search me without probable cause Or that proper ammunition they call reasonable suspicion Listen while I bring friction to your whole jurisdiction" - Fugees
I’d be surprised if WIlliams can make 147 at this point.
"You can't search me without probable cause Or that proper ammunition they call reasonable suspicion Listen while I bring friction to your whole jurisdiction" - Fugees
He could make it he came in at like 156 for his last fight and the point is I would like to see it.
PW never had problems making 147 he had problems making fights at 147. And getting KO’d by Martinez @ 160 does not equal a weak chin. I would love to see him at 147 vs Ortiz. I think it would be a great fight. HBO should make it happen.
I agree about Showtime. The minute Froch responded in the Fourth they were singing his praises as if he were the Messiah. A little too transparent for my taste.
On the other hand, Froch on that fight….or at the very least Johnson lost it.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Froch is not really a huge draw
In fact, he is not as celebrated as many believe he should be, even in the UK.
He was however the favorite of the Showtime crew. They were so vocal they made Rachel look reserved.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
You didn’t mention the problem with MMA: that it’s becoming increasingly unwatchable. I was an MMA fan before I was a boxing fan, but mixed martial arts has changed and not for the better. It used to be a game of inferior athletes fighting wild, unorthodox fights and trying new techniques on the fly, but in pop in any GSP fight since Hughes 3 and you can see that even for the best athlete in the game cares less about winning decisively than he does about smothering his opponents and winning with as little risk as possible. And the level of athlete even at the highest level of the UFC is still far, far below the boxing standard. The product that the UFC has been putting out lately is the worst of both worlds, and that sucks because I remember when guys like GSP didn’t just fight not to lose.
/venting
Anyway, I don’t think you can make a legit claim that MMA will truly surpass boxing without raising the level of competitor, and that’s a generational thing, not the work of a few years. I think boxing will always be the highest form of combat sport, even if people don’t acknowledge it as such.
"Let me tell you a story. I was a political prisoner for two years. The instant I was released I ran to McDonald's. I had a Big Mac and a Coke.
It was fantastic."
-Toyama Koichi, US Presidential candidate from Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0
Agreed
A bunch of inferior athletes with no one skill set laying and praying for the clock to run out ain’t rolling back the tide of a game with boxing’s refined and historic skills.
It may today because of the way it i organized but that is =more the business model that it is the sport.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I think Mixed Martial Artists are fantastic athletes. Every bit as impressive as boxers. But I agree, as fighters, I find it difficult to be in awe of master of all trades.
I will say, though, that as the sport grows, more and more we’re going to see combatants who truly are world class in a variety of disciplines. We’re already seeing it with guys like GSP, Silva, and Jon Jones. The fact that they’ve approached this level so early in the sport’s growth is evident in the fact that they are so clearly ahead of everyone else. I’d imagine it’s something like Sugar Ray Robinson, when he was revolutionizing the sport. He was playing a different game altogether.
I think in time the GSPs and Silvas of the MMA world will become the norm rather the exception. Doubt we’ll ever see world-class boxing, though, not on a wide scale, at least.
Not so my friend
The reason you see less knockouts and submission finishes is due to the parody. You see a better level of athlete all around in MMA now and you see more well rounded MMA athletes. In the early days you had guys who focused on one aspect of a martial art. You were a BJJ or a striker or a wrestler. Now no matter your background everyone knows how to defend or incorporate multiple styles. But I like the new found strategy that is involved with the new style of MMA. But it is not the blood and guts that it was back in the tournament style head butting days.
BTW, Chavez Jr looks like a moron in that photo
Bob Arum would promote Lucifer himself if he could put asses in the seats.
You can strike the last three words
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Jun 5, 2011 1:51 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Evidently I'm the only person here who doesn't think Zbik won the fight
He started strong, but Chavez finished just as strong. I’m sorry, but landing 40 pity pat arm punches a round isn’t going to score you rounds on my card if the other guy is landing 15 solid shots in the same span. Zbik clearly won the early rounds, Chavez clearly won the late ones, and the middle I guess are just a matter of preference.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
by Brickhaus on Jun 5, 2011 1:55 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Sounds like my reasoning for Diaz-Malignaggi I
Bad Left Hook
"My God, kids today think that the laces are for tying up the gloves."
-- Fritzie Zivic
I didn't either
For as mediocre as Chavez is, you have to hand it to him: he goes to the body hard and with consistency.
I think Zbik gave the fight away be constantly leaning on Jr. on the inside. He was warned for it, but it was exactly what Chavez needed, and by the later rounds was adjusting his approach to take advantage of it. Chavez would lean in, wait for Zbik to hook in the elbow, and then wail away at a wide-open midsection. Had Zbik instead tied up, he would have negated a good 70% of Chavez’s offense.
that is not true...back to my point
If Chavez had been fighting PBF or Pac Man and (let’s assume just for this argument that he would be able to take puches from those guys, which I dont think he would) the fight goes exactly the same way. Scores would have been UD for PBF or Pac Man.
the mexican tv had it a draw
that pretty much says it all as the mexican tv is as biased as it gets, they scored Barrera vs Pacquiao 2 for Barrera.
I dont feel sorry for Zbik, that title he had should be in the waist of Heiland or Spada
Is the lesser of two evils, if Zbik woulda retained he woulda kept the title with the same kind of shady decisions except we wont get to see them because is in germany, at least we will get to see when Chavez jr gets feed to the wolves
I just can't like Chavez Jr.
Ok, we’ve all seen the Martirosyan-Chavez Jr. sparring footage which was borderline slapstick…Granted, he does punch to the body well and has plenty of heart, but this belt holder thing is a farce. Zbik literally cannot crack an egg…And for Jr to stand there with his belt and say “I’ll fight anybody if the money’s right,” like he’s a pay per view talent or something, I can’t believe HBO has the audacity to sanction all this…Even Kellerman was making wisecracks about how they put Jr in with guys who can’t punch….The best fighter on the telecast, by far, was Mikey Garcia. He is the real deal.
I can’t get into Mikey Garcia as well. He seems to just go through the motions in fights despite his obvious talent. Didn’t see his fight with Guzman, but Guzman has had powderpuff competition and Garcia would lose to Salido or Elios Rojas.
by 36_chambers_ofdeatH on Jun 5, 2011 2:32 AM EDT reply actions
I'd consider checking out Garcia/Guzman
Garcia threw down in that fight, throwing caution to the wind often. He obviously did not respect Guzman much but at least he got him out of there quick.
Oh Chavez Jr is B-level at most and I’m surprised he beat Zbik. Is Chavez Jr. is now interim “WBC” champ or the regular “WBC” champ? Anybody knows that answer? All These paper titles confuse the hell out me.
by 36_chambers_ofdeatH on Jun 5, 2011 2:38 AM EDT reply actions
Full WBC “champ.” They stripped Martinez to give it to Zbik to award it to Chavez.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
LIttle Jr's comments after the fight
He said something along the lines of him fighting anyone if the money is right. That doesn’t sound like champion to me. Little Jr and Top Rank are what is wrong with boxing today
never. Jr will be kept far from him. Martinez should stage something – jump in the ring and talk some shit – start a melee ala Diaz and Miller over in MMA – it wouldn’t hurt him, shit it couldn’t the position he’s in right now.
"You can't search me without probable cause Or that proper ammunition they call reasonable suspicion Listen while I bring friction to your whole jurisdiction" - Fugees
I don’t know why he doesn’t go up in weight to where the money is.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I thought we just ageed a couple of weeks that there really wasn’t a lot of money up there either, at least in the nearest immediate division.
We may have
But look at the area around 164/65.
Bute, Pavlik, AA, he’ll, even Chavez could meet him there.
They are all bigger draws at home than Martinez has yet to become.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Bute is the only actual money at 168 and already has a long line of opponents waiting to fight him. Pavlik is pretty much still irrelevent and Abraham is about to slink off to Germany for some image rehabilitation. Moving up is the worst thing Martinez could do right now if he ever wants to get a fight with Chavez; kissing Sulaiman’s ass and holding on to his diamond trinket with the hope that the WBC forces a fight is his only strategy given the fact that Chavez is promoted by Top Rank.
I watched both fights on DVR after the fact, without reading any internet commentary at all and not knowing who had won. I didn’t have a problem with either decision. I didn’t keep an exact score but thought Froch eeked out a close fight and that Chavez finished strong. I had Zbik slightly ahead but didn’t think he won clearly enough to overcome the Chavez vibe. Par for the course scoring there.
Obviously Jr is never going to be elite. Not even worth talking about. But he makes good fights, at least lately.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
I have no qualms with the JCC Jr fight
I was a little disheartened by Zbik’s great little speech, but its sort of the price of admission with this sport.
Really the big injustice to me is that Sergio Martinez was in the stands, without a fight. Martinez has every reason to be a big star and instead we get JCC Jr vs a B fighter at best as the HBO main event.
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