Pacquiao vs Mayweather: Arum Clarifies Position on Drug Testing and USADA
by Scott Christ on Jul 11, 2011 10:46 PM EDT
in Boxing News Analysis
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Michael Marley of the Examiner has been looking into the recent claims from Top Rank that they'll do random drug testing with Manny Pacquiao to match him against Floyd Mayweather Jr next year, but not with the United States Anti-Doping Agency (USADA). USADA has done the random testing for Mayweather's fight with Shane Mosley, and will again handle the testing for Mayweather's fight against Victor Ortiz on September 17.
Arum says that they'd be happy to do it with WADA, which was everyone's first hope when the news came up. It's not that USADA isn't credible, because they very much are, but WADA is basically what USADA hopes to emulate on a domestic scale in the United States.
"We don’t accept the USADA handling it," Arum told me. "We do accept the prestigious, well-respected WADA. On those terms, Pacquiao will submit to whatever (blood) testing is required so we can make the big fight."
Now on the surface there's nothing wrong with this, but a USADA representative followed up and explained their side on the matter, for now:
"We certainly do not have a bias against any athlete. We do not have a bias (favoring) one athlete over another. All athletes are presumed to be clean until such time as they are proven otherwise.
"But, when it comes to drug testing, USADA, which is a signatory to WADA rules, regulations and procedures, is the gold standard for sports in the United States. We completely adhere to all the international standards as promulgated by WADA."
She said that perhaps Arum has a misperception of how WADA operates, explaining "[WADA] does not do any actual testing, they do not have the infrastructure to do that. You take FIFA, the Swimming Federation and others...they are all signatories to WADA. What WADA does is contract out (the testing) to recognized doping control agencies in the different countries."
Would it shock anyone if you found out that Arum doesn't really know that WADA doesn't personally conduct the testing, and that from the sounds of this, if WADA were contracted, they'd almost certainly be handing the testing over to -- you guessed it! -- USADA.
The Pacquiao favoring folks here will say that Pacquiao's team isn't asking for a whole lot. "Just let WADA do the testing!" But if WADA doesn't actually do the testing, and they source it out to the recognized agencies in the countries of the sporting events, you have USADA. They're the recognized leader in the United States. Period. They have no record of showing bias or favoritism. Yes, they have openly supported Mayweather's stated cause of "cleaning up" boxing, and no, I don't think Floyd Mayweather Jr has any real interest in actually doing that -- he's not out there forcing the issue for other fights, for instance. But that doesn't mean they would show bias toward him. If Manny Pacquiao were doing what Mayweather has done with the testing, they would openly champion his cause, too, because it's exposure for the cause they actually do champion.
There will have to be fully random drug testing up until the fight for this fight to happen. They'd have to go outside of the top recognized agency in the United States for drug testing if Pacquiao refuses to use USADA, and then you're asking oil and water to come together and agree on something, which is unlikely.
Bottom line: Don't let any of this talk get your hopes up. For now, focus on what's next: Mayweather vs Victor Ortiz on 9/17, and Pacquiao vs Juan Manuel Marquez on 11/12.
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That’s some pretty funny nonsense by Arum. Regardless of which organization handles or setups the testing, in the entire USA there are only two laboratories accredited by WADA to actually test the samples, one in Salt Lake City and one in Los Angeles (this is the one the US Olympic program uses) and that’s it. There’s a grand total of 6 laboratories in the entire continent accredited. Therefore, unless he intends to send the samples outside the country, the actual tests would have to be conducted at one of those two locations.
http://www.wada-ama.org/en/Science-Medicine/Anti-Doping-Laboratories/Accredited-Labs/
Would it shock anyone if you found out that Arum doesn’t really know that WADA doesn’t personally conduct the testing, and that from the sounds of this, if WADA were contracted, they’d almost certainly be handing the testing over to — you guessed it! — USADA.
Not at all, especially since all he could come up with when voicing his original objections to USADA was a vague reference to “the Olympic Organization.” Even if one justifiably thinks Mayweather is a coward, does not care about the sport of boxing, and has made ridiculous unprecedented demands, Arum still sounds like a clown with his latest position on testing.
It’s all posturing but the bottom line is that if Floyd demands something, Pacquiao ain’t giving in one inch. As I’ve said numerous times, the Mayweathers are unnerved by what they see in Pacquiao. And unnerved Mayweather is Advantage Pacquiao. Hence the testing issue.
There is simply no way any fighter, especially one of Pacquiao’s stature, is going to give one iota of ground towards and/or accede to an opponent’s (eg. Floyd) specific demands; not when they are being made because of said opponent’s insecurity.
I still think they eventually will fight….but not on Floyd’s terms.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
just saying:
It’s all posturing but the bottom line is that if Manny demands something, Mayweather ain’t giving in one inch. As I’ve said numerous times, Team Pacquiao are unnerved by what they see in Mayweather. And unnerved Pacquiao is Advantage Mayweather. Hence trying to worm out of the testing issue.
There is simply no way any fighter, especially one of Mayweather’s stature, is going to give one iota of ground towards and/or accede to an opponent’s (eg. Manny) specific demands; not when they are being made because of said opponent’s insecurity.
I still think they eventually will fight….but not on Manny’s terms.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 12, 2011 2:48 AM EDT up reply actions
It (negotiations) is all posturing…. but I absolutely believe that starting with Floyd Sr. and then the entire family, the Mayweathers are truly incredulous….and unnerved.
And when you are in your oponents head, you try to stay there.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I hear you. I do. I just have tired of anyone taking one side so dramatically over the other in the he said-they said parts of this. Neither side has shown me any abnormal desire to stage what is an abnormal fight.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jul 12, 2011 5:25 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s all posturing but the bottom line is that if Floyd demands something, Pacquiao ain’t giving in one inch
Good to know that the word “negotiations” means nothing to both sides still.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Jul 12, 2011 2:57 AM EDT up reply actions
Hmmm... .
Debt Ceiling/Manny vs. Jr
The former story matters but the latter is like a vampire: Someone please drive a stake through its heart
Or let the sun in or something
by Don From Prov on Jul 12, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s not a negotion right now. It’s psy ops.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Exactly,
and I suspect nothing but a lot of sound and fury from nothing (Arum) signifying nothing (the realistic prospect of a fight).
And what would come after, even if a fight were to occur? Another fight, because there would be a winner and a loser, and then several more years of several more shenanigans would follow, and all the while the principals would grow older. And beyond that second, fight, even if it were to occur, there would certainly be some clamor for yet a third, and the cycle would begin again.
There will be other great fighters, in this division and in others (although, perhaps not HW after the K brothers, but that’s another conversation). I think that this thing has just stretched out far too long, and has outlived its time.
If WADA is approved by NSAC
Then Pacquiao would be tested by the PSC in the Philipines while in training, then, once he is stateside, he would be tested, as would Floyd, by the USADA
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Phillipines Government oversight
I will say upfront that I know nothing of the Phillipines government, but isn’t the PSC overseen/run by the government? And isn’t Manny a member of said government? I see that as a true conflict of interest. I wonder if that would throw a new monkey wrench in this debacle of “negotiations”, especially with Bob Arum starting this conflict of interest stuff.
If WADA is approved by NSAC
How can a world organization be approved by a state commission? NSAC does their testing at the Sports Medicine Research and Testing Laboratory, which is an approved WADA laboratory. However, the NSAC does not screen for all of the banned substances/techniques outlined in the WADA prohibited list. I think the USADA is the only organization in the US that does this style of testing.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
Anything Nevada Seems Like the Way to Go
to me—such as, whether or not Nevada usually screens for those things, that imo could be negotiated on a case by case basis—then let Nevada name the testing agency, and use whatever labs that agency directs. Having the state commission handle it where the fight takes place seems . . . the most unassailable to me.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
The problem is that the USADA and NSAC kinda don’t like each other. So a little while ago the NSAC brought in the head of USADA and Victor Conte to discuss drug testing. Both Tygart and Conte essentially told them that their urine test was completely ineffective and that they need to keep pace with the changing nature of chemistry. NSAC proceeded to ignore that advice and just go with urine testing. Ever since then the USADA and NSAC haven’t really gotten along because of the dog and pony show that the NSAC made the USADA go through.
"The bell that tolls for all in boxing belongs to a cash register."
-Bob Verdi
by Waldo Rastel on Jul 12, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Who cares, the whole thing is a farce anyway...
Mayweather wants “random” testing, yet somehow this random testing is only needed 2 months before the fight, which means that refusing cut-off dates was pointless, because it was never going to be random anyway. Unless Mayweather signs up to be tested at anytime throughout the entire year, on or off season, then the whole thing is bull***t. He knows as well as anyone that Pacquiao is not on PEDs, the whole thing is just a front.
Both teams are just making themselves look like complete chumps because they keep coming out with ignorant comments like these instead of just making the fight. It’s just back and forward bull***t from each team. I guess that’s what boxing is these days, back and forward bull***t.
Mayweather wants "random" testing, yet somehow this random testing is only needed 2 months before the fight, which means that refusing cut-off dates was pointless, because it was never going to be random anyway. Unless Mayweather signs up to be tested at anytime throughout the entire year, on or off season, then the whole thing is bull***t. He knows as well as anyone that Pacquiao is not on PEDs, the whole thing is just a front.
This would require them to sign a contract for a fight a YEAR in advance. That’s not realistic. Guys can still use PEDs during the 2-3 month training time frame so even though year round testing is the ideal way to go, it doesn’t negate the effectiveness of testing once training starts.
Mayweather wants "random" testing, yet somehow this random testing is only needed 2 months before the fight, which means that refusing cut-off dates was pointless, because it was never going to be random anyway. Unless Mayweather signs up to be tested at anytime throughout the entire year, on or off season, then the whole thing is bull***t. He knows as well as anyone that Pacquiao is not on PEDs, the whole thing is just a front.
I’m quite willing to believe that Mayweather is full of shit regarding his motives about testing, but this objection has never made much sense to me. It’s pretty much making the perfect the enemy of better testing; the fact that current testing in boxing cannot detect absolutely everything or that year-round testing is not a realistic option for this fight does not mean calls for improvements (for both this fight in particular or the sport in general) are automatically invalid.
I'm just wondering in what why would USADA be biased?
what, would they frame Manny cuz their “biased” against him or would they fake Mayweathers samples? either way why would they do that? Cuz they hate Filipinos?
by Mohammedini Hussein on Jul 12, 2011 12:25 PM EDT reply actions
imo it would be more the fear of more-intrusively timed sample taking from one fighter over the other, which would get in the fighter’s head, and possibly just by waking him up at all hours—not saying they would, but that would be the fear—and costing him much-needed sleep at fight camp. Wouldn’t have to have anything to do with faking results. I don’t think USADA is biased myself, but I’m not the foreign fighter far from home, who might understandably prefer an international testing agency.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
I thought you were foreign fighter BA
Jokes aside, the answer IMO is that everything being done and not being done in these ‘negotiations’ and posturing is tactics; at this point primarily conceived and deployed for psychological advantages more than real.
The testing issue is a canard. If two boxers want to fight….they will fight.
The rest is just some really tiresome booshit.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
This is all like courting a pretty girl
If she ends up saying yes (to signing the fight) than it will all seem worth it, but if she says no all these little negotiating flirtations will leave everyone involved super bitter.
At this point, though I personally blame one party more than the other, I would be ecstatic if they drew blood everyday 6 times, the fight was in Germany, and the split was 90-10 either way, as long as the fight happens within a year.
I will go to Vegas if this fight happens. I will be happy with either outcome as long as its the right decision.
Just let it happen, God.
Let there be blood. Indeed
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
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