Juan Manuel Marquez vs Likar Ramos Knockout: You Make the Call
by Scott Christ on Jul 18, 2011 8:23 AM EDT
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PrintAlright, let's put this to rest. Here's the video for any who haven't seen it or haven't made up their minds:
So the question is: Did Likar Ramos stage his knockout ("knockout," if you think he did), or was this the real deal?
I am usually hesitant to second-guess things like this. Whether that's a protective shell for my own sanity is up for debate, but after watching this over and over and over again, I'm throwing my hat in the ring with those who believe Ramos took a dive. I'm not saying Marquez and Ramos knew he was going down in 1:47 or that Marquez was aware of anything, but I'm saying Likar Ramos looks like he went night-night in the land of make believe. He got hit, and since he's so bad and Marquez is so good, sure that could have knocked him down, without question. Maybe it stops him. But that stumbling, eyes closed deal? Not so much. Not so much, I'm afraid.
But it's your call: Real KO or Likar Ramos acting job?
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yup
That’s what it looked like. He got hit, he got hurt, then he faked being out cold because he wanted out. Strange to see a guy get hit hard, stumble back (a sign that his nervous system was not completely shook) and THEN go out after landing without slamming his head on the canvas. Most guys that go out cold fall back without trying to catch themselves first.
by younggunzvt on Jul 18, 2011 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm Hairsplittin
I voted no because I don’t think it was a prearranged fix, and I do think it was a legit flash KD. But the rest was “fuck this, I’m staying down.” I don’t know if that qualifies as staged, or just quitting.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
by BoxAnne on Jul 18, 2011 8:52 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
That's my feeling.
Punch looked legit enough. Probably thought “I ain’t winning, so no sense in being a punching bag for any longer and collecting the same paycheck, so I’ll just chill out here for a minute.”
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by Dave Strummer on Jul 18, 2011 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
That would qualify as staged. Ramos was not really knocked out, he just did the whole dramatic bit.
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by Scott Christ on Jul 18, 2011 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree – this wasn’t prearranged. It was a good shot but did not look like a “lights out” kind of shot – fighters don’t tend to run backwards when they’re knocked out clean – they just fall. Examples would be Hatton, Williams, Montiel… shot lands clean and legs don’t work. This guys back-pedals, hits the deck and then “goes to sleep” – His head didn’t even bounce off the canvas!
Totally buy into the “wanting out” scenario… Personally I wouldn’t want JMM pounding on me for an extended period of time… There are just better ways to stay down in my humble opinion.
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by Stevosaurus Rex on Jul 18, 2011 9:14 AM EDT reply actions
yeah
Noticed the same thing. Guys don’t try to correct their balance when out cold, and he didn’t slam himself out on the canvas.
I agree with everyone
He was knocked down with a nice punch, and probably decided he did not want to fight anymore.
I’m still not sure why anyone cares. Marquez was never going to lose this fight, UD or KO it makes little difference.
The legitimacy of fights does kind of matter though.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 18, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
+ 1
I think this is the main idea from all of these “farces” that we have had in the past few weekends: completely corrupt (or inept) judging, fighters who shouldn’t be on the same stratosphere with other fighters, and fighters who should not be medically cleared to be on a ring in the first place. There’s an issue of legitimacy in all of these things.
Bob Arum would promote Lucifer himself if he could put asses in the seats.
I do agree
And I would like to echo one point there, Marquez fighting someone as low down as Ramos raises an issue of legitimacy.
I know it’s a tune up fight, but Ramos wouldn’t be a fighter fit to serve as a tune up for any top 10 LW never mind the lineal LW champ and P4P player. Going anywhere near Ramos reflects badly on Marquez.
I honestly expected Ramos to get chopped down in the first and said as much to my mate watching the fight with me.
He stumbled backwards, and then was ‘out cold’ eyes closed on the mat. If he was really knocked out cold he would’ve just fallen straight down, not stumbled back.
He got hit with a great shot right on the chin, definitely hurt him, but he decided on the way down that he’d had enough.
#1 Devon Alexander hater
If Juan Manuel Marquez needed this farce
To find the motivation to start training to fight Manny Pacquiao, maybe its time to hang ’em up. With the Alexander and Williams decisions, and the Burns fight and this fight in the same weekend, pre-ordained outcomes are very quickly becoming a much-too common theme.
And no.
I don’t know why I hypenated much-too.
No way he was out cold. He braced his own fall
by traydawg on Jul 18, 2011 11:49 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
It's only fitting that
Between this (I voted dive), Williams/Lara, and to a lesser extent Alexander/Matthysse boxing has had it’s fair share of ugliness mixed in with all of the awesome fights we’ve had recently.
I think everybody is getting the same picture. A little voice told him “stay down, kid” and he listened. I don’t necessarily blame him too much. He was sent in there as a lamb to a slaughter, and was probably going to get drilled like that again and again.
Bad Left Hook
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The problem is, he should have rubber legged it. Not pretended to be out cold. You know, do the ol’ “try to get up at 8 and slip back to the mat” bit.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 18, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions
"How to Quit Gracefully and Convincingly" by Brent Brookhouse
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
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by ElliotMatheny on Jul 18, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
He didn’t even look like he landed heavy, kind of using his right arm as a break fall so he would bang his head. Too early in the fight to be ko’d like that for me. That was the type of knock down we see, usually after an accumulation of punches landing, over several rounds. Can’t blame Marquez for that though.
I was thinking the same thing. Cause he didn’t move afterwards but still backpedaled to oblivion. I always thought your whole body shuts down and collapses. Why he would take a dive in the first round for a fiighter that wants a warm up befor eManny Pacqiuao, I dont know why he’d do that.
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definately took a dive because...
…it seems pretty clear that he tried to break his fall by posting with his right arm. When you’re knocked unconscious you don’t do this.
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It wouldn’t surprise me if Arum or one of his flunkies suggested to Ramos that it would really help promotion for Marquez’s real 2011 fight if he had a one punch KO on his recent record. Arum doesn’t give 1/2 a shit about hardcore boxing because let’s be honest, hardcore fans will order Pacquiao-Marquez 3 or they won’t. What Arum does care about is being able to show highlights of the Hatton KO next to this one to casual fans. WHO R U PICKIN???;):)!!!!! Expect to see this “KO” a few more times en route to their fight.
by glatin1982 on Jul 18, 2011 5:28 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Hard to really say for me. The knockdown was genuine, and I think a fighter can be hit hard enough so that they’re essentially out, but might still reflexively try to keep their feet (hence the backpedaling.
One thing it was hard to see is how hard his head hit the canvas, although in the last replay I thought that the right side of his head may had hit rather hard, although I can’t say for sure.
I notice that when he was down, and someone touched his head to adjust it, he didn’t flinch even though his eyes were closed and presumably couldn’t anticipate that someone would be touching him near his face. Facial flinch is reflexive, unless the person is really out of it.
So, I don’t know.
Playing dead half-way properly means readying yourself not to flinch in that situation.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
I voted yes but...
Ramos stayed down because of fear; not because the fight was fixed
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
that’s a disgrace! that should have called for an immediate investigation. if they can suspend the judges of the williams/lara fight they should have at the very least held ramos’s purse and looked into his relationship with top rank, considering what was at stake and top rank’s scandalous history……..this shows money is still the root of all evil and scumbag bob is still one of the most despicable human beings to ever have walked the face of the earth
Not really. Just annoying.
It was in Mexico. Not sure who “they” are? Who would do the suspending in Mexico? Agree withholding Ramos’s purse (have trouble believing it’s a big buck) seems like a fair response, who’s going to withhold it? The guy paying it’s probably Bob and if it’s not bothering him, it’s not bothering me. If you can get the name of whoever is in charge of boxing in Cancun, Mexico, maybe you could write to them. But it’s not the kind of outrage Lara-Williams was, as the only unfairness in this case is to the observers, who have little to lose other than a portion of the price of admission, since all the other fighters on the card performed as well as they could, even Uribe. Most of us saw it free and legal. It’s not a fixed fight, imo, but Ramos did cheat the audience, there you have a point. Not sure how outrageous it is, can’t seem to muster much outrage myself.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
by BoxAnne on Jul 19, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Frankly, I feel no outrage for this. Like you said, I didn’t pay anything to watch that. Maybe the people who did pay to attend might feel cheated and outraged. Other than that, I feel indifferent towards this whole thing. If anyone should feel outraged it’s, maybe, the ones who paid him for this fiasco. Maybe JMM wanted a glorified sparing session, at least a few rounds, and maybe he feels a bit cheated (though it doesn’t seem like it).
Bob Arum would promote Lucifer himself if he could put asses in the seats.
it is an outrage
the casual fan probably will take a casual attitude to this fight, but to die hards like myself it truly is a disgrace…..it has nothing to do with the money i would pay to watch a fight and everything to do with the characters involved. you need to read up on scumbag bob’s history ( not wikipedia ) and maybe you and few others might form a little more outrage. just a few months ago one of top ranks top promoter’s was convicted of stealing money from yuri boy campas, but you’re not going to hear about that on these boxing blogs or by these so called boxing experts. top rank and specifically scumbag bob have been pulling this bs for decades.
This isnt anywhere near the robbery of Williams/Lara
The kid knew he had no shot, so he stayed down after the flash knockdown. You really think it would have made it past 3 rounds if he got back up? No way, not when he’s in the ring with a potential HOF’er in there.
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
flash knock down?
marquez hit him with the same right hand he threw 5 seconds earlier then he staggers back, braces himself, then slams eyes shut and you consider that a flash knock down? and i do put williams and lara in the same boat especially if you think there was collusion between the judges what’s so far fetched in thinking scumbag bob wouldn’t convince ramos to a take dive?
Its not a conspiracy
The guy got rocked, said eff this, and stayed down. Happens in boxing. I remember one of Juan Ma Lopez’a earlier fights (I think it was on the DLH Pac undercard) where he knocked the guy down without so much as landing a blow. This guy is no where near the same talent as Lara, plus Lara was denied a decision. That’s why these two fights are not comparable. I still stand by my opinion that this fight would not have made it past 3 rounds. Believe it or not, JMM does have KO power. Otherwise he would not have won 37 of his fights by KO
"It's all over fat man!"
-Tom Jackson
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