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The Crossover Debate: How Much Overlap Is There Between Boxing and MMA Audiences?

Dana White has done something boxing promoters fail to do by reaching out and winning over the younger audience. (Photo by Michael Cohen/Getty Images)

Recently, Bob Arum noted that he's not concerned about the November 12 UFC debut on the Fox network opposing his HBO pay-per-view with Manny Pacquiao and Juan Manuel Marquez, and that he felt that "less than 5%" of UFC fans were also boxing fans. That echoes what Mark Taffet, the pay-per-view lead man at HBO Sports, said in March 2010:

I posed the question on Twitter just to see what everyone was thinking, and got varying responses. Some felt it was a very low estimation. Some rightly wondered what exactly means "boxing fan" here -- are people who just watch Pacquiao and/or Mayweather fights considered boxing fans?

Luke Thomas, a friend of our site and the senior editor of SBN's MMA Nation, said, "Not sure it's that low, but close."

So let's say it really is only 5% or so. That's a problem. With UFC biting at the heels of mainstream acceptance and truly major exposure as a sports league in the United States, shouldn't boxing be doing something to win the favor of those fans?

Star-divide

In other words, shouldn't boxing be targeting the young demographic? Mike Coppinger, who writes for BoxingScene.com and is a member of the Ring Magazine Ratings Advisory Panel, responded to my Twitter question by saying that most boxing fans he knows hate MMA. This is true of a good portion of most of the boxing fans I've known, too. I asked Mike if he felt that boxing having trouble reaching young males was part of the problem, and he said he felt it was "definitely a large part of it." I cannot disagree.

Yesterday, veteran boxing journalist Ron Borges wrote about the subject at the Boston Herald. He noted that the sport's lack of exposure on non-premium channels or pay-per-view has been a major problem in securing younger fans, and spoke with promoter Lou DiBella about it, too:

"MMA appeals to a demographic that appeals to advertisers. I was saying this when I was still at HBO Sports (negotiating fight deals). I advocated for a new series that would look different and promote young prospects. We didn’t do it. It was a mistake. We’re not developing young fans."

Old school promoters like Bob Arum will shrug off the UFC, but as I said before, I don't think that Bob Arum has a real handle on what the UFC has done, how and why they've been so successful, and why they're now on free TV with a big contract from Fox, while boxing languishes on HBO and Showtime, and on pay-per-view. Promoters are overfilled with glee and giddiness whenever a million people watch a fight, and in some respects, they should be. But that's a low target to shoot at, too.

As I noted in a recent breakdown of 2011 TV numbers in the United States, boxing's audience is tiny compared to that of more mainstream sports. And their demographic targets are, without meaning to give offense to any of our older readers, not where the money lies.

Maybe it's true that the crossover is very small, even insignificant. But that's not a reason to dismiss those many could-be fans of boxing that are out there. It's a reason to try and lure them in, to do something different, to get major boxing back onto TV stations that don't require a monthly subscription. It's an audience that boxing just might be able to tap into, and one that should not be ignored.

DiBella's idea of a new program on HBO to develop young talent will be coming to fruition early in 2012, as you may have heard. HBO is going to run a ShoBox-like series with a bigger budget, which hopefully will develop some new young stars. But really, that's just another HBO show. Existing boxing fans are surely excited about it, but the buck kind of stops there. It doesn't seem like something likely to procure new fans of the sport, but rather just another show for the already-there fanbase to watch. An expansion of the fanbase will not come from HBO, or from Showtime. Something bigger has to happen.

The 5% is a problem. If boxing continues to treat it like something irrelevant that can thus be given the cold shoulder -- or even in any way as if it's a good thing that the crossover is small -- then the sport is truly a ship with nobody at the rudder. That demographic has to be reached if the sport is going to draw more eyeballs, or even maintain itself in the future. It's money, and as we've heard a million and a half times, it always comes back to money. There's a lot of it out there that isn't even being approached, let alone grabbed.

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I think more MMA fans watch boxing than the other way round

by davec84 on Aug 22, 2011 5:53 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

If you're talking about the US, I seriously doubt it.

MMA has a much larger fan base than boxing in America, boxing is such a rump sport now that a lot of the major American champions have trouble drawing flies to their fights.

In order for the crossover from MMA → boxing to be much greater than the reverse, the crossover numbers would probably have to be so small as to be completely inconsequential. Boxing isn’t attracting many fans at all nowadays, so the sport can’t be nicking much of their audience from MMA, because there’s hardy an audience for the sport at all.

by Bad Mamajama on Aug 22, 2011 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

As a minority who enjoys both I will give my 2 cents. Yes more MMA fans watch boxing as to the other way round but its mostly cuz the older generation of boxing fans refuse to learn anything about MMA, cuz they dont know much about it = they hate it (I said majority and would love to here from the minority that have other reasons for hating on it).

Boxing should be doing more in North America to draw the young demo forsure and with the biggest MMA org getting a big platform to perform on I think promotions in Europe may need to boost there efforts aswell.

by e-thug on Aug 22, 2011 6:42 PM EDT reply actions  

I have tried many times to watch MMA. I simply can’t get into it. My main reasons are:

1) I hate grappling and ground game. Hate it. Find it incredibly hard to watch. It bores me to tears.
2) I don’t find it aesthetically pleasing. Although not all boxers are sweet scientists, truthfully I find most boxers (even crude ones) will be more aesthetically pleasing to watch than MMA fighters. I don’t doubt that many people enjoy the aesthetics of MMA, but to me it looks clumsy and sloppy most of the time.

I respect the MMA athletes because the punishment they take seems absolutely brutal, but I just don’t enjoy watching it. Not sure if this is what you were looking for, but these are my reasons. And like I said before, I have tried watching it. It’s not a knee jerk reaction. I’ve have actually sat down several occasions and tried to get through UFC cards.

Bob Arum would promote Lucifer himself if he could put asses in the seats.

by Apprentice on Aug 22, 2011 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

My sentiments exactly

And I too have tried.

The fact is that there are many things to try…and like or dislike. I don’t feel any obligation in this life to learn to appreciate MMA any more or less than I might rugby. Or blackjack for that matter.

I’ve tried both many times and reached the same conclusion.
No interest.

"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali

by pakinpower on Aug 23, 2011 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re grappling

For me, I started that way too. It wasn’t until I learned about different grappling techniques that I was able to appreciate the ground game.

This is also why I can appreciate a defensive boxer. I would say most fans want to see guys just kind of slug it out in the ring. When they see guys slipping, ducking, bobbing, weaving, and picking their shots they get turned off by it. I’m in awe because I can appreciate the technique used and the intricate way in which they weave defense and offense together. It’s the perfect example of the “sweet science”.

by erod on Aug 23, 2011 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1

There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939

by BoxAnne on Aug 23, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

at least the part about defensive boxing. I’ve got nothing but respect for MMA athletes, as I do real honest wrestlers/wrestling, but I don’t understand the techniques of either, and have never found it real watchable.

There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939

by BoxAnne on Aug 23, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1

There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939

by BoxAnne on Aug 23, 2011 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

I asked Mike if he felt that boxing having trouble reaching young males was part of the problem, and he said he felt it was “definitely a large part of it.” I cannot disagree.

I think this is probably the biggest challenge boxing faces in the next decade and beyond. UFC has been very successful at attracting young fans, light-years ahead of boxing promoters. Boxing promoters need to find a way to connect with young sports fans including and perhaps especially young casual mma fans. Casual MMA fans like combat sports and would probably like boxing if they had more exposure to good fights.

UFC has wisely taken the route of perhaps lower profit margins, but more eyeballs and more exposure of their product through deals on basic cable. That’s how you grow an audience. Not sticking every fight on HBO and Showtime or even worse second rate fights on PPVs (I know often ppvs are a last resort because no tv spots are available, but still).

Obviously this is all easier because UFC is a sports league and can be sold as a product, channels buy the UFC brand, whereas boxing is fragmented and fights are usually sold individually or part of a card.

by Sammlung on Aug 22, 2011 6:46 PM EDT reply actions  

MMA's demographic

People often don’t like to talk about race. While MMA does seem a better job of attracting young males, this sort of conversation is incomplete if you don’t point out that MMA attracts young white males.

How many of the top 50 P4P fighters are white Americans?

by LooseCannon on Aug 22, 2011 6:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Well

In MMA the top two fighters are a black Brazilian and a French Canadian, so I’m not sure what you’re getting at.

by Worldisart on Aug 22, 2011 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

French Candian is not white? Huh?

Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"

by Matt Miller on Aug 22, 2011 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don’t know to whom he refers, but there exist black French Canadians, a la Pascal (although of Haitian [French] descent).

There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939

by BoxAnne on Aug 23, 2011 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

He refers to a white guy name George St. Pierre, I believe.

Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"

by Matt Miller on Aug 23, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

In fact

To take that idea even further, of the 7 promotional champions in the UFC, only one of them is a white American, Frankie Edgar.

The LHW, 205lbs division, long recognized as the glory division in MMA, sees only one white American in the top 6 ranked fighters. The next title fight will feature a fight between two African Americans.

The HW division, a staple of combat sports the world over, is about to see it’s title contested between a Brazilian and a Latino American.

In the MW division, which features Anderson Silva, a black Brazilian, widely recognized as the best P4P fighter in the sport, we will see a title fight between the aforementioned Silva and Japanese import Yushin Okami.

If I understand you, you’re suggesting there’s a bevy of successful white Americans at the top of the sport in MMA? Because if you are, than I’d check again. The top fighters in MMA offer a very ethnically diverse slate of fighters.

by Worldisart on Aug 22, 2011 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also

Frankie Edgar is a white guy of Italian descent. Not that it makes a huge difference but still. If GSP is considered a French Canadian (still white), then Frankie can be considered an Italian American.

Yankees 2011 (77-48)

Knicks '10/'11 (42-40)

Giants 2010 (10-6)

by Benny Blanco from the BriX on Aug 22, 2011 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Point is

GSP isn’t a white American. And if you’ve spent any extensive amount of time in Canada you’d know there is a distinct cultural difference between your average white male Canadian and a French Canadian.

by Worldisart on Aug 22, 2011 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Many French Canadians want Quebec to secede from Canada and become its own country. Quebec still has a distinctly French culture, while the rest is more influenced by their English colonial history.

by Sammlung on Aug 22, 2011 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is getting silly.

then Frankie can be considered an Italian American.

You mean like Rocky?

Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"

by Matt Miller on Aug 22, 2011 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

2 out of 7

Last I checked, Dominick Cruz was a white American.

The itsy bitsy Spider went up the waterspout
Down came the Thunder and washed the spider out
Up came the sun but Thunder still remained
And the itsy bitsy spider never touched the belt again~

by Johnny WF on Aug 22, 2011 7:19 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Dominick CRUZ is half latino. His mom is white & he grew up in the U.S. but his dad is hispanic. So you can’t really market him as a white fighter, because of his name he’s more marketable as a latin fighter.

Yankees 2011 (77-48)

Knicks '10/'11 (42-40)

Giants 2010 (10-6)

by Benny Blanco from the BriX on Aug 22, 2011 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bingo

‎"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world."

- Jack Layton

by Worldisart on Aug 22, 2011 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

And the fact that he considers himself a proud mexican american...

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Aug 22, 2011 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree.

MMA are ‘people like us’ so to speak. They hail from different backgrounds but the complexion of their participants is definitely a lighter shade of flesh.

It’s not their fault or intention. It’s a fact. And it cannot hurt the box office one bit.

"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali

by pakinpower on Aug 23, 2011 12:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

HW Champ – Velasquez (Mexican/American)
LHW Champ – Jones (Black American)
MW Champ – Silva (Black Brazilian)
WW Champ – GSP (White Canadian)
LW Champ – Edgar (White American)
FW Champ – Aldo (Brazilian)
BW Champ – Cruz (Mexican/American)

The new generation of fighters are not so dominantly White as they once were lets just put it that way.

by e-thug on Aug 22, 2011 7:05 PM EDT reply actions  

I don’t think there is any arguing that the UFC has become multi-cultural, multi-ethnic, etc. Perhaps, white males are the single largest demographic group of their fans, but the top fighters are from all over the world. And frankly I think most young people are past the “I can’t watch it without a white guy involved” type of ethnocentrism. They just want to see the best fighters in the world. I’m not sure why these guys are arguing about it…

by Sammlung on Aug 22, 2011 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I absolutely agree with you.

I’ve said elsewhere just about all I want to on this whole issue, but you make two important points:

1. As others have said very clearly in this thread, only a blind person could claim that MMA is largely “white” either in its participants or fans.

2. Based on my experience at the Univ. of Massachusetts at Amherst, kids in that age range are nearly completely unaware or otherwise uninterested in the whole “race” thing that twisted earlier generations into knots. The fight fans among them are just about 100% MMA-oriented, and don’t give a flying you-know-what about the ethnic affiliations of the fighters. They cheer the good ones, and boo the bad ones, and that seems to be it.

by DrRck on Aug 22, 2011 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's not because of the skin color of the fighters that MMA attracts a white audience.

It’s the wrestling.

Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"

by Matt Miller on Aug 22, 2011 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

White kids who grappled in school as wrestlers can relate to the ground game.

When I was in school, if you fought a white kid, you went to the ground. If you fought a black kid, you stood your ground and boxed. Now that is no longer necessarily the case but that experience was indelible to my introduction to combat sports.

"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali

by pakinpower on Aug 23, 2011 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly. Which is my only reason for not being drawn to it, I’ve never really been able to enjoy wrestling. It always seems boring to watch, undoubtedly due to my ignorance.

There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939

by BoxAnne on Aug 23, 2011 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

I dunno, to be 100% honest I find amateur wrestling boring to watch, too, and many of the current wrestling-based MMA fighters don’t rev my engine. They don’t have to be dull, but they can so easily control a fight with that background that it can go that way more often than I’d like.

Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."

by Scott Christ on Aug 23, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

lou dibella complaining about bad promoting always annoys me as he is pretty lazy promoter

by pong102 on Aug 22, 2011 7:13 PM EDT reply actions  

I’m a member of the young male demographic (20yrs.) & really it’s a simple reason why I lean more towards MMA than boxing. The reason I ever became a diehard boxing fan is because I just loved fighting. But the fact is that MMA is the closest thing to real fighting as a sport. So once I discovered MMA I loved it because of everything it offered. So in one word, I love MMA because of VARIETY.

There’s so much more you can do in an MMA fight besides boxing. To me, watching a boxing match has become like watching a fight of limited technique, you can throw punches but that’s it. Which is why I’m not so diehard anymore, I’m still more knowledgeable than the casual fan but now I put way more effort into following MMA.

So for me it’s not because of marketing or whatever, it’s simply because the more weapons you can use in unarmed combat the better.

Yankees 2011 (77-48)

Knicks '10/'11 (42-40)

Giants 2010 (10-6)

by Benny Blanco from the BriX on Aug 22, 2011 7:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Exactly. I’ve argued this before, as a long-time boxing fan and a (former) martial arts practitioner.

I think earlier generations liked boxing because it was, besides a combat sport, something you thought you’d have to do on the street. But since those dark ages, now that we’ve all found out that over 90% of street fights end up in the ground, MMA has taken on a level of credibility that boxing seems to have lost for the same reason.

by DrRck on Aug 22, 2011 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

kicking,grappling have existed for years mma didn’t introduce them to the world.realfighting stopped being like any sport when a caveman decided to hit someone with a stick.its a lame,tired piece of marketing do compare a sport to real fighting

by pong102 on Aug 22, 2011 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah you can’t legally cave anyone’s nuts in in MMA. Only in boxing, apparently. RIMSHOT

Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."

by Scott Christ on Aug 22, 2011 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I beg to differ...
Yeah you can’t legally cave anyone’s nuts in in MMA.

(I know this was in the earlier UFC, and I’m sure it’s not legal anymore)

by erod on Aug 23, 2011 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

Fuuuuuuuuuuck, that looks worse than Mares/Agbeko hahahaha

Bob Arum would promote Lucifer himself if he could put asses in the seats.

by Apprentice on Aug 23, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

There was a photo here… I am not insane just making some random comment like that.

Bob Arum would promote Lucifer himself if he could put asses in the seats.

by Apprentice on Aug 23, 2011 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

it is in fact not legal anymore

Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."

by Scott Christ on Aug 23, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fine, let's not compare sport to real fighting

Regardless, I’d rather watch a combat sport where the fighters can punch, kick, elbow, knee, slam, use submissions, etc. over a combat sport where the fighters can only throw punches.

Yankees 2011 (77-48)

Knicks '10/'11 (42-40)

Giants 2010 (10-6)

by Benny Blanco from the BriX on Aug 22, 2011 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's odd.

I like boxing because it DOES NOT look like a street fight.

Street fights, imho, are not spectator friendly events. The rules of boxing developed not to limit the fighting but to make it more appealing to fans. A lot of us simply don’t enjoy watching wrestling. Personally, I just don’t see the appeal, and I have a hard time even understanding how someone can prefer watching wrestling to striking, but that’s just me.

I do enjoy watching kickboxing.

I guess my main point is that the rules of boxing developed precisely to keep fights from looking like they would in reality, because in reality fights are over too soon and often spend too much time grappling for a lot of peoples’ tastes. In addition to the fact that the UFC totally dominates boxing in terms of marketing and doing a good job promoting to younger audiences, I think MMA appeals more to a white audience because college wrestling audiences are largely white. I suppose this is a well known point, but it seemed like a good mention it in this thread.

Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"

by Matt Miller on Aug 22, 2011 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is basically my reasoning as well…I posted above that I just don’t find MMA aesthetically pleasing, but I think you’ve put it more eloquently than I did.

Bob Arum would promote Lucifer himself if he could put asses in the seats.

by Apprentice on Aug 22, 2011 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

And me as well

Well said

"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali

by pakinpower on Aug 23, 2011 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I can see where you're coming from

People have different tastes. I can definitely understand why you think wrestling is boring. But your post seems to imply that MMA = wrestling. MMA matches are not as dominated by wrestling as you think they are. It definitely depends on who’s fighting of course. Personally my favorite fighters to watch are guys who use little to no wrestling but I guess I’m just willing to sit through some boring grappling (which is not always boring) in order to see some variety in a fight.

I’ve seen some crazy shit in my years as an MMA fan that would be impossible in boxing due to the fact that only punching is allowed. I do follow boxing as well as kickboxing and I guess the best way I can put it is that I’ve seen a whole lot more “HOLY SHIT!!!!” moments in MMA than any other combat sport. And I guess that’s why the MMA fan sacrifices the “aesthetically pleasing” fight for the “what the fuck is gonna happen tonight” moments.

Yankees 2011 (77-48)

Knicks '10/'11 (42-40)

Giants 2010 (10-6)

by Benny Blanco from the BriX on Aug 22, 2011 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't hate MMA. I've seen some MMA fights that I thought were really exciting.

But I would add a word of nuance about the role of wrestling in MMA and how it affects the aesthetic of the sport. It’s not just the fact of take downs and whether or not they occur in a given fight. Even more so, it’s the THREAT of take downs that makes MMA unappealing to most boxing fans.

You just fight so ugly when you always have to be worried about the other guy taking it to the ground. Even if no one goes to the ground in a fight, the fact that taking someone down and wrestling is allowed completely and totally changes the aesthetic of the striking. If, like me, what you really enjoy is good striking, the rules of boxing allow you to focus on what you enjoy, because they allow the fighters to focus totally on it too.

Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"

by Matt Miller on Aug 22, 2011 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yea you're right

The traditional boxing stance leaves you open for takedowns AND leaves your lead leg vulnerable to leg kicks that really fucking hurt. So yes, boxing in MMA will never be as crisp as it is in the sport of boxing. That’s why I still enjoy boxing & kickboxing because it is great to watch a fighter perform at the highest level of striking.

I just prefer how MMA takes all martial arts and combines it into one big mess. You may not get really great at one skill but you can get pretty good at a lot of different skills.

Yankees 2011 (77-48)

Knicks '10/'11 (42-40)

Giants 2010 (10-6)

by Benny Blanco from the BriX on Aug 22, 2011 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think MMA appeals more to a white audience because college wrestling audiences are largely white.

I don’t think that this is what appeals to the UFC audience. I live in Australia where the UFC has exploded in popularity. If you do a quick search you would find that Australia has a very limited wrestling scene. The last time it medalled at the Olympics was in 1944. If anything the UFC has made wrestling more popular.

Striking or grappling – It’s an individuals choice much the same as choosing nascar over Formula 1 or eating an orange over an apple.

I honestly don’t prefer one to the other. I like a complete fight and for me that is what MMA brings. If you like striking, then i see why you would watch kickboxing, and if you like punching only then it’s boxing.

I’m a massive kickboxing fan (Corbett, JWP, Buakaw, Yodsanklai) and boxing fan (Katsidis, Green, Hopkins & Pacman). MMA is definitely my favourite, but I would easily choose watching kickboxing and boxing over any team sport. I was a boxing and kickboxing fan long before I knew about MMA and will continue to watch it which is why I hate it when i see it as a ‘us vs them’ arguement,

BTW, i believe the statistic is a lot higher in Australia. I know quite a few MMA fans that watch boxing though I’m not quite sure the other way around.

Interesting discussion BTW, and credit to most for doing it in a respectful way.

by Chris Postupalski on Aug 23, 2011 7:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Boxing is a niche sport… like Indy racing….

MMA is a niche sport… like Nascar….

One is huge worldwide, the other is big state side but compared to the major sports( football, basketball, baseball) they are pebbles in a quarry.

"Boxing is dirty," said Casamayor. " The day I’m not ready to be a dirty fighter is the day I don’t fight anymore because it will mean that I have no heart for it anymore."

by Zocalo on Aug 22, 2011 9:49 PM EDT reply actions  

All true points.

Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"

by Matt Miller on Aug 22, 2011 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

No they're not

MMA has been and is very popular outside of America. In fact, per capita, Canada is the current capital of MMA and the sport is extremely popular there. You can’t even really call it a niche sport in Canada anymore.

It’s is also popular in Brazil, Japan (though not as popular as it once was), Australia, other Asian countries, etc etc etc.

Boxing is very likely more established than MMA around the world, but MMA certainly isn’t comparable to NASCAR.

"Who are you and how the hell did you get in here?"
"I'm a locksmith... and i'm a locksmith."

by Goonisis on Aug 22, 2011 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

All analogies are inexact.

And MMA is certainly more popular outside the US than NASCAR, but I think his point was that this is all pretty relative, because they’re both niche sports in the larger picture.

MMA fans and promoters sometimes engage in a bit of chest-thumping about how popular MMA supposedly is, but both MMA and boxing really are just “pebbles in a quarry,” as Zocalo put it, compared to mainstream sports.

Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"

by Matt Miller on Aug 23, 2011 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think you mean

boxing is like F1. And F1 has a pretty big “niche” in Europe.

Isn’t Indy racing only popular in the good ol’ US of A?

by jhf884 on Aug 23, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Getting back to Scott’s original question. If I had to guess, I would say about the number is about 15%. That’s just my personal experience. Not counting online acquaintances, I know about six people who I would call fans of combat sports. Six who might actually go to a live event or throw down on a PPV. Out of the six, one likes MMA too. He likes MMA more, he says, but he will throw down on a boxing PPV now and again.

I would also say that people tend to think the rest of the world—or even the United States—feels the same way people do in their own neck of the woods. When I lived in the midwest, for example, I knew lots of people who liked MMA and very few who liked boxing. You would see MMA promoted but seldom boxing. You might find yourself in a random conversation about MMA at a party or something but not about boxing.

Now that I live in Brooklyn, I know more people who like boxing and very few who like MMA. I see boxing posters and billboards on the street and in the subway but not MMA. I often find myself in conversation at the liquor store (owner is a boxing fan), in a bar, or even in the subway about boxing, but no one has ever brought up MMA casually to me.

If I had lived all of my life in just one place or the other, I would think very different things about the wider appeal of each sport.

Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"

by Matt Miller on Aug 22, 2011 10:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Not that this thread needs my opinion, as I’m not a regular commenter, but while I’m around the MMA demographic, I just can’t accept MMA, not after over 15 years as an avid boxing fan. And, with regard to the percentage of overlap there is, I’d say around 10%, maybe.

For me, I just don’t find the wrestling/grappling, the demographic, and lack of history appealing. The thing I do appreciate is the matchmaking abilities of MMA. They’ve done an incredible job creating great cards and promoting their sport, something boxing has done terribly now for quite some time. Though, not enough to make me a MMA fan.

It'll be just you, me, and Peter Nincompoop.

by BeastMode on Aug 23, 2011 1:00 AM EDT reply actions  

I got into boxing via MMA

and I still watch more MMA than boxing, I definitely appreciate both.

by jhf884 on Aug 23, 2011 10:21 AM EDT reply actions  

I can completely understand the argument about aesthetics but to MMA has more upsides

I used to have arguments along the same lines, preferring the dynamic punching of boxing over MMA grappling. But, over time and having trained in BJJ I acquired an appreciation for both.

However, I will say that MMA which let’s be honest is UFC, does a few things very, very, right in terms of entertainment.

First off, the monopoly allows for logical match match making. If a guy looks deserves a title shot or a shot at a title eliminator he usually gets it. *Or at least more often then in boxing.

Also, there is a huge upside for “bad fights” unlike in boxing. In boxing, there are many ways a fight can leave a bad taste in your mouth, including a mismatch. But, in MMA the mismatch of styles are so contrasting that something dynamic will end the fight, i.e. a choke or a knockout.

I consider myself a boxing fan first, but I enjoy MMA too, and there are just million little things that MMA does to reward its fans that boxing just messes up.

by Sean Mills on Aug 23, 2011 11:45 PM EDT reply actions  

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