Teddy Atlas Thinks Pacquiao vs Marquez Is a Better Fight Than Mayweather vs Ortiz
by Scott Christ on Aug 25, 2011 2:21 PM EDT
in Boxing News Analysis
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ESPN boxing analyst and veteran trainer Teddy Atlas says that he thinks Floyd Mayweather Jr will have an easy time with Victor Ortiz on September 17, but that the November 12 fight between Manny Pacquiao and Juan Manuel Marquez intrigues him. Here's what he told BoxingScene.com about Pacquiao vs Marquez:
"Maybe Marquez is getting old after all this tear-and-wear, maybe he is starting to get too slow, maybe he gets caught too easy. But one thing is no "maybe" – how he’s gonna act. And he’s gonna act like a damn warrior, like a champion, like a fighter. I think no matter what, he is forty years old or he is in ninety years old, in the middle of the winter or in the middle of the summer, Marquez will always give Pacquiao a tough fight. His style, his talent will make it a tough, a very tough fight for Pacquiao."
Atlas, who is currently putting the finishing touches on a short camp with Alexander Povetkin in Germany, has been a noted critic of Pacquiao during his rise to stardom, or rather a noted critic of Pacquiao's fights. It's interesting that he feels that Pacquiao fighting an aged, undersized Marquez is a tough fight, while he's dismissed others, because many would say that this is a classic case of hand-picked matchmaking.
But there are a lot of people who feel the way that Atlas does, that Marquez will always give Pacquiao a hard time because he just does, because he's got the right tools to trouble Manny and give him all he can handle. I can't say it's 50-50 between the camps who think the fight stinks and those who think it's being overlooked, but if it turns out to be a competitive battle, Teddy Atlas won't be the only one saying, "I told you so," I can tell you that much.
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Atlast is right
Pac-Marquez is a atleast a 65-35 fight while May-Ortiz is 90-10
I got 85-15 or so on both. And I like both fights fine, for what it’s worth.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Aug 25, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
i actually think ...
both fights are gonna be one-sided, but even with that anytime you get to see a tactician like mayweather at work is a treat lol, of the 2 fights i think the manny marquez fight the best chance of being competitive.
by goldenbird09 on Aug 25, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I also think they have similar long shot odds, but maybe 75-25 or so...
but I think Teddy is kinda right when he cites JMMs style and talent. JMM has hung with (and arguably beat twice) Pac in large part, I think, because he’s a counterpuncher. During Pac’s meteoric rise, he’s avoided (intentionally or not) counterpunchers. Maybe Cotto, who has good timing but obviously not a counterer, is the closest? They say the ones that hurt most are the ones you don’t see coming, and JMM seems much more capable of landing one of those than the walking punching bags Pac has stared down lately. The bad news is that Pac’s chin seems to have developed into granite lately, and JMM doesn’t seem to be able to carry his power up beyond 130-135.
Ortiz/Floyd might be interesting because he has power, Floyd hasn’t fought in a while, and Ortiz is the first southpaw Floyd has faced in a while. Maybe Ortiz can put together some combination of Mosley’s shot and Corley’s little bit of success? Probably not, but definitely worth watching.
Clotted was a counter puncher as well
Until he got hit
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Clottey was never a counter puncher
Neither was Abraham. Anyone with a brain could see that either guy would wilt under constant pressure. They both just guard until the other guy is done attacking. I still think that if Dawson can get out of that habit, he could be a top guy, but his mental makeup just sucks.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
You are mistaken
Clottey is an excellent counter puncher. He is a quick-fisted, accurate counterpuncher with an excellent left hook. And he has a good jab when he decides to use it. He heavily favors countering off the blocks and misses…..and can stop-hit you to death with straight shots.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I got Pac-Marquez
About 90-10 and Mayweather-Ortiz about 95-5. I don’t think either opponent has a real chance. If Ortiz can’t handle Peterson’s slickness, there’s no way he can handle Mayweather’s. And while Marquez is essentially even with Pacquiao over two fights, Pacquiao has a distinct advantage at this weight, plus Marquez has aged worse than Pacquiao, plus Pacquiao is just a better overall boxer than the last time they fought. Even if Pacquiao is starting to fade (and I think he is), he hasn’t faded nearly as much as Marquez. Fortunately for Marquez, him at 70% is still better than 99% of fighters, but I doubt he ever beats an elite fighter ever again. I still rank him high P4P, but that’s only because I rank that on accomplishment, and honestly, I still consider him to be a 130 pounder fighting at 135, which gives him bonus points in the pound for pound ratings (just like Wlad gets debited for being a huge heavyweight – but despite that, I still have him at #6 at the moment; if he was 225 pounds and had his resume, he’d be #3).
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I like Ortiz’s pluck but do not think he matches up with Floyd at all.
We know that JMM and Manny make great fights…or at least they did.
And Atlas is right. Marquez has zero quit in him. He ill fight even if he ends up looking to Nacho a la Manny/Morales III….which is what I suspect. A decision by Nacho to end the fight for his fighter because Marquez, like Margarito, Morales and their brethren do not quit.
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
I know styles make fights and Marquez is a great fighter, but I just don’t buy the whole “Marquez will always give Pacquiao a tought fight” line. I think Marquez will fight his ass off and be competitive for perhaps the first half of the fight, but I’d be surprised if Manny doesn’t stop him by the 8th round or so. He’s got more left in the gas tank and he’s more comfortable at the weight.
Katsidis put Marquez down HARD in his last meaningful fight. Of course he came back with a wonderful performance and stoppage, but if Paquiao landed that clean of a punch it’d be lights out, game over.
yeah...
could be pacman just blows him outta the water..
by goldenbird09 on Aug 25, 2011 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Crap
smh…this is just getting ridiculous.
Marquez doesn’t carry that weight well at all. Sure he was competitive at his natural weight class but this is a whole different animal. Pacquiao fits in, and Marquez is still too little. The Marquez is a warrior and will give it his all bullshit is just that…bullshit. This is a farce of a fight just like it was when he fought Mayweather. I said it before, but it’s very very sad that the best thing people can say is that JMM will do his best.
All that’s left is for Atlas to pick JMM to win the fight, because naturally he always picks Pacquiao’s opponents to win.
JMM will get KO'd
Or get beaten so bad that his trainer will throw in the towel.
yup
But I think it’ll be a good action fight while it lasts. That’s where people are coming in with some praise of the fight, I think. I mean, sure, it’s bullshit for the reasons you stated, but I’ll take 100 versions of Pacquiao vs Morales III over another Pacquiao vs Clottey/Mosley/even Margarito fight. Someone who fights back in the pocket would be great. Margarito did some, but he was too big and slow to provide the kind of real firefight I enjoy so much.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Aug 25, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
hahahahaha....
pacquiao vs clottey lmaoooooo i still feel ashamed for ordering that
by goldenbird09 on Aug 25, 2011 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Clotted should be the one to feel ashamed
"Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer"
---- Muhammed Ali
Just because it’s better than Mayweather/Ortiz, which I agree it is, doesn’t mean it’s good.
But then again, none of us are exactly bristling with ideas for close fights for Pacquiao outside of you know who.
Boxing writer: "Iran, what are you going to do when you retire?"
Iran Barkley: "Rob your house"
I wish that teddy atlus would just shut the hell up already. He and tessitore are the only reason why I don’t watch FNF as much as I should
I hate the Texans
by battle axe of doom on Aug 25, 2011 4:19 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
You sure have a lot of weird reasons for not watching boxing.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Aug 25, 2011 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm a petty person
But I’m mostly exaggerating. I usually work Friday nights, and FNF have usually been a bore (not this season obv). What gets me is that espn2 replay little league games, but not FNF. Andre ward is just too much of a zealot and he’s boring
I hate the Texans
by battle axe of doom on Aug 25, 2011 5:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
im with you on your opinion...
of Teddy Atlas hes such a jackass i cant stand him, hes such a bhop hater so maybe that plays into my disliking of him but either way hes a huge douch. I do watch every minute of FNF ’s though lol wat can i say im a boxing junkie lol.
by goldenbird09 on Aug 25, 2011 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
If you get espn3 on your pc you can see the replays there. They get them up practically immediately too.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
Most also hit YouTube fairly quickly.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Aug 25, 2011 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Marquez is an older version of basically the same guy who fought Pacquiao twice before, but Pacquiao is not the same guy who fought Marquez, and weight is just one reason.
I think Marquez will give it everything he’s got, just like he always has, and Pacquiao will take him seriously, just as he always has. The result will be a really hot fight for a while, but I just can’t see it being even close, let alone there being any possibility of a Marquez win.
I think JMM is just a terrific fighter, but this is the third in a trilogy only in name. Maybe an inspiring mismatch.
Marquez v. Pacquiao is a closer fight than Ortiz v. Mayweather. There I said it.
I believe there is confusion between Ortiz being the best opponent at 147 for Mayweather other than Pacquiao and Ortiz actually being a tough fight for Mayweather. The two are not the same. Similarly, I believe there is confusion with the Marquez fight happening at 147, not 140 or 135, and, thus, Marquez won’t be able to match up with Pacquiao effectively. In addition, people are angry that the fight is happening at all because they want Pacquiao to fight Mayweather with the tests and/or because they view Marquez as passed it and isn’t suited to the weight class. Some of that sentiment is warranted, but it shouldn’t be confused with the fact that Marquez will still be a tough outing for Pacquiao just look at the empirical evidence.
JMM has faded, but I really don’t see how he doesn’t make it a bit interesting just based on the fact that he intimately knows Pac’s style. The way he has learned to fight Pac isn’t just forgotten. Pac has gotten better over the last couple of years, but recall, after the first Marquez fight, many said that Pac would crush Marquez in the second fight because he had developed a right hook. And that’s not what happened.
I really don’t see how Ortiz competes with Mayweather. He’s not bigger. He’s not more skilled. He’s not faster. He’s not more experienced. He’s not better or even with Mayweather in one single category other than his youth and I’m not sure that is an advantage because he’s probably not in his prime yet.
I really don’t see how Ortiz competes with Mayweather. He’s not bigger. He’s not more skilled. He’s not faster. He’s not more experienced. He’s not better or even with Mayweather in one single category other than his youth and I’m not sure that is an advantage because he’s probably not in his prime yet.
I agree for the most part except for the size part. Ortiz was suprisingly big and strong for the Berto fight. He carries the welterweight size quite well.
just look at the empirical evidence.
The empirical evidence also shows that Marquez fights poorly at welterweight. He was fat and slow. Fat slow Marquez gets blown out at any weight against strong, fast Pacquiao. He is not the same fighter at welterweight. It doesn’t matter how well he did before.
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