Joe Cortez: "I Made the Signal, You Don't Have to Say Anything"
by Scott Christ on Sep 21, 2011 12:53 AM EDT
in Boxing News Analysis
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In a piece focusing on referee Joe Cortez by Bill Dwyre of the Los Angeles Times, the veteran, highly (and consistently) criticized official had this to say about his performance in the controversial Mayweather vs Ortiz fight from Saturday night:
"I made the signal," he said. "You don't have to say anything. These guys know the rules."
... "Victor made two mistakes," Cortez said. "His first one was being a bad boy, and his second one was being too much of a good boy."
I think most would prefer Cortez not describe Victor Ortiz as a "bad boy" or a "good boy" because it's just a little bit unsettling.
So this makes him even more to blame, I think. It's not whether or not you have to say anything, it's that usually someone does. There are a lot of things you don't have to do, and you can skirt by at your job and go unnoticed and who really cares, you're just a guy at work.
But Joe Cortez was given the highest-profile assignment that there is to give in professional boxing, a Floyd Mayweather or Manny Pacquiao fight. This wasn't the time to do the bare minimum, and I think those familiar with Cortez's recent performances largely agree that he's just not a good referee anymore.
Cortez has trademarked that "I'm fair but I'm firm!" catchphrase, which is cute. But he should stop saying it. He might be fair (at least by intention), but he's far from firm, and his days as a working referee would be numbered if anyone who mattered were up to admitting that their officials have been bad for any length of time, but expect nothing to come of this, since he was, technically, legally, perfectly OK. If an upside of "average" is good enough, then sure, keep giving him the fights. But he's proven time and again when he has to make a quick decision, he's not up to par, and while he wasn't wrong in this case, he still wasn't good enough.
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No one is insisting anything. You can clearly hear him say let’s go
You’re right — now I don’t even know what he’s talking about when he says “you don’t have to say anything.” Was he talking to someone else? Does he know he said it?
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Sep 21, 2011 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions
I think what he’s saying is the two fighters should have known it was time to fight based on the signal alone.
by theninthlayer on Sep 21, 2011 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Well that’s the gist here anyway, so I stand by my belief that no, it really isn’t. Not here when there’s 14,000 people screaming at one of the biggest, most important fights in the profession.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Sep 21, 2011 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions
It really isn’t. I watched the fight with two very experienced fans—one, 60 yrs. old been a boxing fan since a kid, seen a million fights, the other a devoted MMA fan, former ex-amateur champion wrestler sometime amateur boxer—all 3 of us were looking right at it. We were wtfing all over the place, not at all sure the fight had been restarted. It seemed as tho’ Cortez changed his mind, based on f the body language of turning away and very obviously conferring with ringside personell. Like, “Let’s go—oops, maybe not, I forgot something.” All three of us initially thought that, unbelievably, Floyd had blown it, hit on thebreak and KO’d the guy, and would get DQ’d. It was the mushiest ‘time in’ I’ve ever seen.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
This was my take on it too… To quote Victor Ortiz, Joe Cortez had a “whoops” moment. He called time in and then remembered he shouldn’t have and instead of stopping it again he just disregarded the action and started talking to the time guy. THIS is where you can see that Joe Cortez is either incompetent or his refereeing skills are just not there anymore, and either way he should be benched.
Bob Arum would promote Lucifer himself if he could put asses in the seats.
Cortez changed his mind, based on f the body language
So body language matters when he was turning to talk to the time keeper but not when he initially gestured the guys to resume action in the middle of the ring? He was supposed to say BOX or something, but when he wants to break he doesn’t have to say anything?
"Boxing is like dealing with a ho"
-Bernard Hopkins
never mind saying ‘box’ or not, if body language counts when he waves them in, then it also counts when he gives every appearance of changing his mind by turning away from the action and starting an out-the-ring conversation. In life, usually one takes the second of countermanding indicators as the true indicator.
There is no safety in numbers, or in anything else--James Thurber, 1939
well we just disagree
I still don’t think he gave any kind of generally accepted indication of a break in action.
"Boxing is like dealing with a ho"
-Bernard Hopkins
Has Cortez explained yet how a supposedly capable official can completely miss the first punch land of a fight ending combo? For a referee to signal the fighters to resume fighting, as he says he did, and then turn away as the fighters come together in order to address someone outside of the ring is remarkable. This may not have ultimately impacted what happened, but it can’t be considered competent officiating. While he’s laid the blame on Ortiz, and deservedly so – he seems oblivious to his own failings.
by The Boxing Bulletin on Sep 21, 2011 1:30 AM EDT reply actions
he seems oblivious to his own failings.
It’s not the first time. Then he goes with, “I know the rule book.” And I’m sure he does. By heart. Front to back. But he’s just not able to keep pace anymore. He makes bad decisions, or at least questionable decisions, very frequently.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Sep 21, 2011 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I dunno, I think FightHype rounded up everything pro-Mayweather. I didn’t check to see if they also left out any of the parts about sportsmanship.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Sep 21, 2011 7:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree with this completely
Has Cortez explained yet how a supposedly capable official can completely miss the first punch land of a fight ending combo? For a referee to signal the fighters to resume fighting, as he says he did, and then turn away as the fighters come together in order to address someone outside of the ring is remarkable. This may not have ultimately impacted what happened, but it can’t be considered competent officiating. While he’s laid the blame on Ortiz, and deservedly so – he seems oblivious to his own failings.
I don’t think anything Cortez could have done would have impacted the fight outcome unless he specifically told VO to not hug Mayweather again. But yeah, turning your head from the action is not good. Floyd only landed two punches but what if VO had gone out on his fight and teed off on him a few more times?
"Boxing is like dealing with a ho"
-Bernard Hopkins
im in the minority here.
his “lets go” was slurred and only noticed it when i replayed it.
and why is he calling time in when he clearly wasnt ready to have his eyes on both fighters. mayweather could’ve landed an elbow on ortiz for all he knows.
while the knockout remains entirely legal, cortez wasnt as blameless as he makes it out to be.
Legal is the lowest bar anyone has to meet. Woo medicority
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Sep 21, 2011 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Cortez usually got his head in the clouds
but not on this subject. That entire night—from the undercard to the main event—had numerous examples of the ref separating a fighter after warnings about low blows or headbutts and then make the signal to fight with their hands, no words. Now if there is further instruction, the ref holds each boxer by the wrist to tell them what he expects going further and then pushes them away and says “fight” while making the signal. It’s been like that forever and a day. Sure the ref can say the words “fight” or “let’s go” every time, but they don’t have to.
As soon as Ortiz got blasted by that hook he should have put his hands up, not look to the ref with the intentions to tag him in to the fight. Wanna go a little further back? Ortiz should have kept his freaking eyes fixed on Floyd after he proceeded to hug Floyd for the billionth time.
This began with Victor Ortiz and it ended with Victor Ortiz.
Victor’s gameplan after the ref signaled to fight was to say I’m sorry for the trillionth time, hug, expect Floyd to smile and say “Ok kid, we’re cool, no hard feelings”. Then Victor and Floyd separate, circle each other a little until the round ends where then Victor puts his hand up to dap Floyd and apologize for now the zillionth time and Floyd ignores him and heads to his corner. Victor tries to play it off and smiles while heading to his corner.
Hey, I'll take it from here because you obviously don't know what you're doing... Lie down now, rest, and we'll talk about this when you regain your senses. --The Knockout Mechanism.
+1
That entire night—from the undercard to the main event—had numerous examples of the ref separating a fighter after warnings about low blows or headbutts and then make the signal to fight with their hands, no words.
THIS^^^^
I don’t know where people get this idea that refs always say something. There are numerous instances of this in every single boxing match by all refs.
"Boxing is like dealing with a ho"
-Bernard Hopkins
Kinda sums it up
It may not be picture perfect but he said “let’s go” and gave them a hand signal.
It’s Ortiz who wanted to kiss and hug 3 different times.
Cortez
The problem was Cortez losing focus at the crucial moment. From his experience, he should’ve sensed the need to grab control by being FIRM with both fighters, keeping them in the neutral corner until everyone was on the same page, then keeping an eye on the fighters as action resumed. This is where he goofed. Hopefully, he"ll use this as a teaching point in his clinics for future refs.
Joe Cortez is a heckuva nice guy
But his skills are gone. Ask Humberto Soto. Cortez is paid to referee the action. Half-assedly waving the fighters together and then completely turning his attention from the boxers is inexcusable. For him to say he did nothing wrong is the clearest indication that he needs to retire.
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