How good is ....?
by gravydeath on Jan 13, 2012 9:18 PM EST
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PrintI thought this might be a decent forum to enquire about boxers that you haven't seen too much of, or maybe fights that others here have seen but you haven't.
After seeing his name mooted for a fight with Gamboa, the one that comes to mind for me is Chris John. I've only seen the two fights with Rocky Juarez (I thought he won the first one), and I didn't even realise that he had a win over Juan Manuel Marquez on his record. I realise that he's been very reluctant to fight outside of Asia, probably for money reasons, but how would people on here rate him talent wise? Also, has anyone seen his fight with Marquez and is it worth watching?
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In my opinion, Marquez was robbed blind in his fight with John, but it’s JMM’s fault for fighting John in Indonesia for chump change. The fight wasn’t great because it was two highly skilled counter punchers waiting for one to make a mistake.
by 36_chambers_ofdeatH on Jan 13, 2012 11:15 PM EST reply actions
The Marquez fight is on YouTube.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
John is goo but not great. His record is deceptive.
However, I did have him beating JMM
"I wish people would love everybody else the way they love me. It would be a better world."
—Muhammad Ali…
You have got to be kidding? Please explain to me how can you or anyone have John win more then 5 or 6 rounds in the Marquez fight. Marquez was jobbed big time.
by 36_chambers_ofdeatH on Jan 15, 2012 8:56 PM EST up reply actions
Plenty of people had him beating Marquez. That’s no all-time great robbery by any means.
"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."
by Oli Goldstein on Jan 16, 2012 4:55 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah plenty of Indonesians had John winning that fight. I saw the whole fight yestaurday, and while I had Marquez win 8 to 4 it was a robbery in the sense that the judges had the fight so wide for John.
by 36_chambers_ofdeatH on Jan 16, 2012 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
Plenty of people who weren’t Indonesian had the fight for John, but funny joke.
"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."
by Oli Goldstein on Jan 16, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
I wasn’t really trying to be funny, just didn’t really see John control the rounds or land anything of significance in the fight. Your most likely right because I do watch that fight favoring Marquez.
by 36_chambers_ofdeatH on Jan 16, 2012 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
says the guy with the Marquez avatar
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jan 16, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
hahaha Marquez is my favorite fighter.
by 36_chambers_ofdeatH on Jan 16, 2012 5:13 PM EST up reply actions
no shite
"I wish people would love everybody else the way they love me. It would be a better world."
—Muhammad Ali…
I had John winning
I had it 6-6 in rounds, but with the deductions, John won. One of the deductions was BS, but that just means it should have been a 1 point win instead of a 2 point win.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Agreed
"I wish people would love everybody else the way they love me. It would be a better world."
—Muhammad Ali…
Meant for Oli
"I wish people would love everybody else the way they love me. It would be a better world."
—Muhammad Ali…
John was a good fighter...
but a couple of years too many in the Indonesian jungle has caught up with him and he’s dipped a bit. Gamboa would walk through him, as would Lopez and Salido after a couple of rounds of being countered. The difference between JMM and John is that JMM has adapted as he’s got older and had enough power to keep opponents honest, where John doesn’t have either.
Still searching for an alive Dan Tucker.
I wouldn’t make Salido that strong a favorite. That night against Lopez was as great as he’s going to get, and Lopez was so wide open to be hit that I have trouble reading the fight. Salido hung in with Gamboa, too, but he also just nearly shit the bed with what should have been an “easy” fight.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jan 16, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
I used to defend John saying he was a decent fighter this and that, but over the years I felt more and more let down, which completely swayed my opinion on him. I think he’s starting to show signs of slowing down enough to make him an easier target to tag, a bit like Ivan Calderon did in his latter stages.
Still searching for an alive Dan Tucker.
John was really good in his prime
At this point, he’s well past it and his chin has gone downhill. Most comparable fighter to Chris John, for better and for worse, is probably Sven Ottke. Gamboa still would have beaten prime John IMO, and Pacquiao probably would have beaten him for the reasons Dafs already went into, but prime John is even or better against just about any other featherweight from the last 10 years. I do think prime John would have outboxed Lopez on the outside with ease, and would have beaten guys like Salido and Guerrero.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
Always enjoyed watching John fight
Was he on the Hatton Mayweather undercard? I remember watching him and was very impressed with his skills?
He fought on Mayweather-Marquez for sure. Beat Rocky Juarez in a very generic Rocky Juarez fight.
"Occasionally, there is a boxing match that, in its demonstration of skill, courage, intelligence, hope, seems to redeem the sport - almost. Perhaps boxing has always been a sport in crisis, a sport of crisis."
by Oli Goldstein on Jan 16, 2012 4:54 AM EST up reply actions
As in starts slow and finishes fast, but time runs out for Rocky
"I wish people would love everybody else the way they love me. It would be a better world."
—Muhammad Ali…
I actually believe Pacquiao would have struggled against Chris John because John in his prime was slick. I think John would frustrate Pacquiao and would counter Pacquiao trying to cut off distance and get in punching range. Although, Pacquiao could have been just too good and ran through John.
by 36_chambers_ofdeatH on Jan 15, 2012 9:04 PM EST reply actions
Speaking of rarely seen Asian boxers...
I’ve never seen Pongsaklek Wonjongkam fight; how good is he? I mean obviously he’s a very good flyweight, but historically speaking, is he one of the best lower-weight fighters ever? What about P4P, is he as good a technician as, say, Andre Ward and such?
Pong is very good when matched tough. He’s one of those guys who fights a lot of weak opponents, but when it really counts, he shows up.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
by Scott Christ on Jan 16, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Almost all elite Thai fightesr are mached that way.Wonjongkam is exceptional. I think he miht have avenged his 3 losses.
If he stays on course, he will end up in the Hall. Big IF.
"I wish people would love everybody else the way they love me. It would be a better world."
—Muhammad Ali…
Yes
Pong has beaten every opponent he’s ever faced.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
He's not that level of technician
Technically, he’s very similar to Mikkel Kessler, actually.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
But he's also tough like Kessler and doesn't back down
Earlier in his career he was also very quick though. At this point, I’d say they’re actually two very similar fighters.
Bad Left Hook - The SB Nation boxing blog
"Baseball is played on the field, not on a calculator."
I like him but he need to be careful as to his opponent selection.
"I wish people would love everybody else the way they love me. It would be a better world."
—Muhammad Ali…
Ricardo Lopez
Heard great things but havent seen his fights yet, before my time. How good was he?
by Shitali Klitschko on Jan 17, 2012 8:27 PM EST via mobile reply actions
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